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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    artur777:

    In official press release I didnt see any confirmation of 0-124 mph times. 

    I think 10-11 secs for 0-200 are closer to the truth

    11.7 seconds is the official time from Porsche.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    artur777:

    In official press release I didnt see any confirmation of 0-124 mph times. 

    I think 10-11 secs for 0-200 are closer to the truth

    11.7 seconds is the official time from Porsche.

    Must be the number one determining factor when people buy a family sedan car Smiley 


    --

     

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    0-100km/h: 3.4s

    100-200km/h: 8.3s

    0-200km/h: 11.7s


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    bluelines:
    RC:
    artur777:

    In official press release I didnt see any confirmation of 0-124 mph times. 

    I think 10-11 secs for 0-200 are closer to the truth

    11.7 seconds is the official time from Porsche.

    Must be the number one determining factor when people buy a family sedan car Smiley 


    -

    It is when they ask you to pay close to a quarter of a million EUR for that family sedan. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The money is subjective. I just dont feel the passion for this car. Its always been the 911 turbo s, nothing else. The 991 may have its foibles (lack f noise etc etc that made people like RC switch to `audi) but `i am a faithful sort of person & have never felt the passion for anything else.

    For the family sedan, a MB s500 is perfect - but of course it has to be chauffeur driven 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    noone1:

    Still odd that 0-60 is 3.4s with that much power and AWD. Seems like it should be much quicker.

    0-60 is actually listed as 3.2 second (faster than 0-100 kph).  That is crazy fast when you take the enormous weight into account.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    For over $200k shouldn't it be more impressive fro a 4 seater car with no trunk? 50km on battery but at what speed? With all the power available? IMHO just get a 2 year old FF and move on...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Tesla model s p100d for me!


    --

     

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap - did you ever see how the fastest of all Tesla's accelerates above 150kph? Acceleration at high speeds is virtually non-existent with the Tesla.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    EnglishManInNY:

    Tesla model s p100d for me!


    --

     

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order

     

    It is apples and oranges comparison.

    Panamera Turbo S Hybrid is still a Porsche and despite its weight is in sheer drive dynamics a light year ahead of Tesla P100D. Around 25s (!!!) faster on the Ring is maybe not an important factor for some people but, it tells a lot, IMO.

    If you mainly drive in striaght line and around town then choosing P100D makes some sense. 

    This is sportscar forum and if some of you really like and value Tesla models drive dynamics then you are posting on wrong forum. Even now few years old Audi RS7 is in drive dymanics almost a light year better then P100D. 

    Only if you really like pure e-cars then I can accept your choice.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    KresoF1:
    EnglishManInNY:

    Tesla model s p100d for me!


    --

     

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order

     

    It is apples and oranges comparison.

    Panamera Turbo S Hybrid is still a Porsche and despite its weight is in sheer drive dynamics a light year ahead of Tesla P100D. Around 25s (!!!) faster on the Ring is maybe not an important factor for some people but, it tells a lot, IMO.

    If you mainly drive in striaght line and around town then choosing P100D makes some sense. 

    This is sportscar forum and if some of you really like and value Tesla models drive dynamics then you are posting on wrong forum. Even now few years old Audi RS7 is in drive dymanics almost a light year better then P100D. 

    Only if you really like pure e-cars then I can accept your choice.

    Thank you - you have summed it up well Smiley. I suppose this ludicrous acceptance that a quick 0 to 60 makes a great car is the ultimate expression of the sound bite society as far as motoring goes.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap.

    +1 I don't know how the Tesla can even be compared here... its like comparing a scooter to a sportbike Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Carlos from Spain:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap.

    +1 I don't know how the Tesla can even be compared here... its like comparing a scooter to a sportbike Smiley

    Americans has a very different concept of sportiness vs the rest of the world. 

    To them, anything that does great 0-60 is already sporty. Elon sold that part perfectly to the public.


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Since when was the panamera a sport car. It's a sedan. Something you usually drive to commute or with the family in it. If I want sports car dynamics I'll take my TTS and soon to be had gt3. Since I am not driving on the autobahn P100d drives well enough for me when I want to drive a sedan. 


    --

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I respect all views on this Tesla/Panamera conversation, and hope mine is respected as well.  

    To me, the Panamera superbly combines the 911 "sports car" dynamics with a luxury sedan.  It handles--regardless of its weight--as well as most sports cars (including most 911s), yet provides extremely high quality luxury, design and sophistication.  

    There are certainly sedans--Tesla, Audi, Mercedes, etc.--that may be faster in a straight line, or be a better "bargain", but none combine performance (another word for race bred engineering), luxury, and design better.  And that combination is where Porsche has always excelled.  My 911S in 1969 was not as fast as a Camaro or Dodge Hemi, but the sporty combination was so much better.

    I will throw in another intangible, which affects my preference for Porsche products--the brand's decades long commitment to racing.  That commitment gives me a sense of pride and confidence, which I am willing to pay extra for. Porsche is nothing without racing--and the engineering advancement resulting from it.  

    One final comment.  It seems to me that Porsche should be given more credit for extremely high build quality. My current Cayenne Turbo impresses me every day with its fit and finish, inside and out.  And my recent experience (yesterday) in the cabin of a new Panamera Turbo, confirms by admiration.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap - did you ever see how the fastest of all Tesla's accelerates above 150kph? Acceleration at high speeds is virtually non-existent with the Tesla.

    Also, Tesla always makes fantastic acceleration claims but the best I ever saw in a German car magazine was 3.1 seconds for the P100D. 

    2.3 seconds from 0-100 kph? In your dreams, not even with the new update.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    My wife's two Teslas are nonchalant, effortless champs in the everyday "stoplight grands prix" on this side of the Atlantic.  Listen to some Beach Boys (409, little deuce coup, I get around, etc) or Jan & Dean (little old lady from Pasadena) music from the '60s and one can deduce the mood in the USA.  

    High performance sports cars have very limited opportunities to exercise their full dynamics here.  Great acceleration can be used from every stop light every day.  Racing sells cars in the USA, too.  But a bunch of that racing is drag racing.  Indianapolis 500, NASCAR and drag racing were really the only kinds of racing I'd ever heard of as a kid growing up in Ohio.  It wasn't until I started reading Road & Track and Car and Driver magazines that I became aware of LeMans and F1.

    The Model S is so darn quick to launch from rest (or any slow speed) and does so without making any anti-social noises that it is difficult not to be continuously amused by driving it.  Will it lap Mid-Ohio as quickly as a Panamera Turbo?  I have serious doubts.  But I can't pretend I'm lapping a race course while street driving without lots of issues.

    In the USA, Tesla is quite a thrill when you want, but very sedate when you want.  I love it.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I agree, for the US, Tesla cars may have a purpose. Maybe even for some speed limited regions in Europe.

    This is actually my fear with ELVs: They could actually force our government (not the current one but a future leftist one) to introduce a speed limit in Germany. Maybe even based on demands from the German car industry which may see a challenge in switching to ELVs.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    EnglishManInNY:

    Since when was the panamera a sport car.

    You may want to ask the marketing department that enjoys leaking NBR times and 0-60 time etc.... with the fastest sedan on earth Smiley

    It's a sedan. Something you usually drive to commute or with the family in it.

    It drives differently from other sedan cars and this is what's confusing about this hunchback of sedan. Who is your rival ? All the sedans have a soft and smooth ride, while Porsche tries to implement the 911 DNA into a sedan car.

    The Cayenne I can understand, but the Panamera ? I'm not sure if it will succeed in the long run.

    I haven't seen a Panamera on the road since MK2 was announced Smiley

    If I want sports car dynamics I'll take my TTS and soon to be had gt3.

    It's that same exact feeling you get in the Panamera, but once you get destroyed by a 911 or any other sportscar, then you'll come to your senses that this isn't actually the all-in-one package Porsche that can perform like a sportscars but with 4 doors.

    It will for sure perform better than what factory claims, but don't get fooled by the weight if it feels light on its feet, think of an obese person jogging with double cheese burger in his hands while on the other side, an insulin is being injected to avoid sudden cardiac arrest.

    I see this car as a project for the next interior in the upcoming 911 and hybrid testing on guinea pigs.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    What are the comparable Nurburgring lap times for the new Panamera Turbo, compared to the 991.2 Carrera S? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Found the Nurburgring times:

     

    991.2  7:34

    Panamera Turbo 7:38


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    How about continuous 6 laps ?

    Which one will run out of breath first ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap - did you ever see how the fastest of all Tesla's accelerates above 150kph? Acceleration at high speeds is virtually non-existent with the Tesla.

    Well, unless you live in Germany, who cares? It takes 10s from a dig for a Huracan to even catch up to a Tesla.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap - did you ever see how the fastest of all Tesla's accelerates above 150kph? Acceleration at high speeds is virtually non-existent with the Tesla.

    Also, Tesla always makes fantastic acceleration claims but the best I ever saw in a German car magazine was 3.1 seconds for the P100D. 

    2.3 seconds from 0-100 kph? In your dreams, not even with the new update.

    Well, here's what it does to a Huracan. What's a Huracan, 0-60 in 3s? And here's the owner's 1/4 time slip:
    2015 Tesla Model S P100D Ludicrous - 10.7 @ 123 MPH

    Now just imagine if Tesla packed this into a 2-seater shaped like a Huracan...
     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Eh, Tesla is doing 2.3s isn't it?

    Compared to the Panamera turbo S the Tesla (even in its fastest version) is total crap - did you ever see how the fastest of all Tesla's accelerates above 150kph? Acceleration at high speeds is virtually non-existent with the Tesla.

    Well, unless you live in Germany, who cares? It takes 10s from a dig for a Huracan to even catch up to a Tesla.

    One other implication of the Panamera being developed for high speeds is that every component of the car is of higher quality (suspension, steering, brakes etc) than in a car like the Tesla that ia just made for slow driving in certain markets. 

    That is: even if you cannot use the high-speed acceleration you can still benefit from all the excellent engineering of this package.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Btw, don't see why somebody would compare a 100d with a proper sports car (like in this video):

    If driven properly a 991 turbo s will deliver the same 0-60 performance as this ugly Tesla (sorry, these cars look like  Ford cars to me...). But after the first 2.6s the Porsche will just kill the Tesla. The Tesla is a slow pig above 100kph. Even a normal Ford will be quicker then :-)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    MKSGR:

    Btw, don't see why somebody would compare a 100d with a proper sports car (like in this video):

    If driven properly a 991 turbo s will deliver the same 0-60 performance as this ugly Tesla (sorry, these cars look like  Ford cars to me...). But after the first 2.6s the Porsche will just kill the Tesla. The Tesla is a slow pig above 100kph. Even a normal Ford will be quicker then :-)

    The Model X with seats for 7 will do the same thing...

    The point is that Tesla is putting down supercar performance in a very common usage while still being a sedan or SUV with tons of space.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    noone1:
    MKSGR:

    Btw, don't see why somebody would compare a 100d with a proper sports car (like in this video):

    If driven properly a 991 turbo s will deliver the same 0-60 performance as this ugly Tesla (sorry, these cars look like  Ford cars to me...). But after the first 2.6s the Porsche will just kill the Tesla. The Tesla is a slow pig above 100kph. Even a normal Ford will be quicker then :-)

    The Model X with seats for 7 will do the same thing...

    The point is that Tesla is putting down supercar performance in a very common usage while still being a sedan or SUV with tons of space.

    Until 60mph - and then it is being ripped into pieces. Same when the first bend shows up.

    In summary: only fast up to 60mph and in the straight line. In all other situations: a poor compromise...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Fast up until 100 mph and handles just fine on the vast majority of public roads. Want to see a roll race now? Tesla hurts a lot of feelings...

    https://youtu.be/Wbr3hHy28AA?t=1m47s

    I already posted the timeslip. 1/4 miles on the 100D is 10.7. You can't be fast only up to 60mph and still do 10.7. Just accept that the Tesla hurts feelings in most realistic acceleration scenarios.


     
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