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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    noone1:
    Tony007:

    There may be some truth regarding hard to get..  

    I ordered a 17 TTS locally back in April for an Oct delivery.  After I ordered I stopped back in and they said that I should be glad I ordered when I did. They advised me that mine was the last one that they could get this year.  No more allocations for TTS available for them til next year.    

    Maybe he meant if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get into the delivery window for 2016, but rather you'd have gotten it in February 2017 or something like that. If delivery time is 4-6 months, it would be highly unlikely the next Turbo they'd get would next June. That would be way too long and people would just go elsewhere.

    Has the dealer confirmed in writing that your car will be MY 2017?
    If not, I'd be concerned in the scenario you describe that an October delivery in the USA might be MY16 car built before factory closure in August, and that they don't have allocated slots yet for MY2017.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    fritz:
    noone1:
    Tony007:

    There may be some truth regarding hard to get..  

    I ordered a 17 TTS locally back in April for an Oct delivery.  After I ordered I stopped back in and they said that I should be glad I ordered when I did. They advised me that mine was the last one that they could get this year.  No more allocations for TTS available for them til next year.    

    Maybe he meant if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get into the delivery window for 2016, but rather you'd have gotten it in February 2017 or something like that. If delivery time is 4-6 months, it would be highly unlikely the next Turbo they'd get would next June. That would be way too long and people would just go elsewhere.

    Has the dealer confirmed in writing that your car will be MY 2017?
    If not, I'd be concerned in the scenario you describe that an October delivery in the USA might be MY16 car built before factory closure in August, and that they don't have allocated slots yet for MY2017.  Smiley

    I have a 2017 TTS on order.  Paperwork is locked and loaded for 2017.  Sept build / Oct delivery.

    In fact they had a few 2017's in stock already which had just arrived in as part of their initial shipment of 17's and we took one out for a lengthy test drive.  When we came back from the drive I placed the order.  This was back in mid April. All their new 911's coming in back in April were 2017's.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Herbaliser:
    EnglishManInNY:

    I know for a fact getting a 991.2 TTS is much harder than it used to be for the 991.1. I know I asked about upgrading.....

    Not in Europe. I can get a production slot in 2 months and still change the configuration. 

    In Germany, the 991.2 Turbo S is sold out for 2016.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Whoopsy:

    The American dealers have quotas that works like government budget, if they don't spend all of it this year, they get less the next. That's why dealers keep ordering showroom cars and then had to discount them to move them.

     

    Not much different in Germany. Also, to get cars very high in demand, dealers also need to order so called "non-seller". One reason dealers over here do not give much rebate on high demand cars, maybe 3% if you're a good customer because they need to offer better rebates on the not so popular models.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:

    I have noticed a few strange (ie too fast) 0-300 measurements from Auto Bild over the years maybe their testing regime is not as rigorous as SA but you would have thought they would have applied same methodology to the 991 which at 29.6s is at the slower end of range expected.

    A couple of possible reasons for variations

    Was it a windy day with the Macca being lucky enough to catch a gust (and only tested one way or an average of one big gust one way and zero headwind the other way)- don't laugh this can make a massive difference !

    Is it possible the 570S was first tested on 98RON and then refuelled with 100RON whilst the others had 98RON or worse fuel (the 991 I know is very sensitive to good fuel)

    AutoBILD Sports Cars mentioned in their article that they suspected that the 570S has much more power than claimed but they couldn't do their usual dyno run to verify the power. Unfortunately they do not explain why. So the reviewers had a suspicion too but... Smiley Like I said before, if all customers get this kind of power, I wouldn't mind but if this is just a well prepped press car, well... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    fritz:
    noone1:
    Tony007:

    There may be some truth regarding hard to get..  

    I ordered a 17 TTS locally back in April for an Oct delivery.  After I ordered I stopped back in and they said that I should be glad I ordered when I did. They advised me that mine was the last one that they could get this year.  No more allocations for TTS available for them til next year.    

    Maybe he meant if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get into the delivery window for 2016, but rather you'd have gotten it in February 2017 or something like that. If delivery time is 4-6 months, it would be highly unlikely the next Turbo they'd get would next June. That would be way too long and people would just go elsewhere.

    Has the dealer confirmed in writing that your car will be MY 2017?
    If not, I'd be concerned in the scenario you describe that an October delivery in the USA might be MY16 car built before factory closure in August, and that they don't have allocated slots yet for MY2017.  Smiley

    Are all cars built before the factory closing in August MY2016? My car was built in June and it is designated a 2017.yes


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    nberry:
    fritz:
    noone1:
    Tony007:

    There may be some truth regarding hard to get..  

    I ordered a 17 TTS locally back in April for an Oct delivery.  After I ordered I stopped back in and they said that I should be glad I ordered when I did. They advised me that mine was the last one that they could get this year.  No more allocations for TTS available for them til next year.    

    Maybe he meant if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get into the delivery window for 2016, but rather you'd have gotten it in February 2017 or something like that. If delivery time is 4-6 months, it would be highly unlikely the next Turbo they'd get would next June. That would be way too long and people would just go elsewhere.

    Has the dealer confirmed in writing that your car will be MY 2017?
    If not, I'd be concerned in the scenario you describe that an October delivery in the USA might be MY16 car built before factory closure in August, and that they don't have allocated slots yet for MY2017.  Smiley

    Are all cars built before the factory closing in August MY2016? My car was built in June and it is designated a 2017.yes

    In the case of this year's crop of 911s they are obviously not, from what Tony007 and you yourself have written here. 

    Car manufacturers "generally" time model year changes to be introduced during factory stoppages for annual vacations, so in an European context "next year's" model will start coming off the line after the summer break.  
    However, manufacturers have some leeway to move the MY changeover around to match the introduction dates of brand new models or of face-lifts which are not synched with the factory closure.

    For instance, if production of a facelifted model starts in March 2016, then it can be designated as being MY 2017, as there will be no additional significant changes to that car before calendar year 2017 is well underway. This will presumably be what has happened to the 911 variants this year. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Also, it may depend on the car market...my 2nd generation Audi R8 was manufactured in March 2016 but is a MY 2016 car (Germany). In the US, all 2nd generation Audi R8 are MY 2017, even cars manufactured end of 2015. Weird but true.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Also, it may depend on the car market...my 2nd generation Audi R8 was manufactured in March 2016 but is a MY 2016 car (Germany). In the US, all 2nd generation Audi R8 are MY 2017, even cars manufactured end of 2015. Weird but true.

    It can indeed. The authorities in some markets allow more leeway than others in varying the "span" of a Model Year. 
    IIRC, Saudi Arabia, for example, does not allow cars produced before August of one year to be designated as belonging to the following Model Year. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    nberry:
    fritz:
    noone1:
    Tony007:

    There may be some truth regarding hard to get..  

    I ordered a 17 TTS locally back in April for an Oct delivery.  After I ordered I stopped back in and they said that I should be glad I ordered when I did. They advised me that mine was the last one that they could get this year.  No more allocations for TTS available for them til next year.    

    Maybe he meant if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get into the delivery window for 2016, but rather you'd have gotten it in February 2017 or something like that. If delivery time is 4-6 months, it would be highly unlikely the next Turbo they'd get would next June. That would be way too long and people would just go elsewhere.

    Has the dealer confirmed in writing that your car will be MY 2017?
    If not, I'd be concerned in the scenario you describe that an October delivery in the USA might be MY16 car built before factory closure in August, and that they don't have allocated slots yet for MY2017.  Smiley

    Are all cars built before the factory closing in August MY2016? My car was built in June and it is designated a 2017.yes

    Here is an excerpt from the US press release. In the US all facelift models are 2017 models.

    In the United States, the new generation of Porsche 911 Turbo will reach dealers in April 2016. Base MSRP is as follows, not including the destination charge.

    911 Turbo
    911 Turbo Cabriolet

    911 Turbo S
    911 Turbo S Cabriolet

    $ 159,200 $ 171,500

    $ 188,100 $ 200,400 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Base turbo S cab $200k heart That means most cars will be between $215k and $240k, that's Ferrari and Lanborghini territory. They have gone insane. And for a car where the interior is the same as a $40k Boxster and that doesn't look really different than other Boxster Cayman or 991. After 3 years you won't be able to trade these in for $100k...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    nberry:
    fritz:
    noone1:
    Tony007:

    There may be some truth regarding hard to get..  

    I ordered a 17 TTS locally back in April for an Oct delivery.  After I ordered I stopped back in and they said that I should be glad I ordered when I did. They advised me that mine was the last one that they could get this year.  No more allocations for TTS available for them til next year.    

    Maybe he meant if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get into the delivery window for 2016, but rather you'd have gotten it in February 2017 or something like that. If delivery time is 4-6 months, it would be highly unlikely the next Turbo they'd get would next June. That would be way too long and people would just go elsewhere.

    Has the dealer confirmed in writing that your car will be MY 2017?
    If not, I'd be concerned in the scenario you describe that an October delivery in the USA might be MY16 car built before factory closure in August, and that they don't have allocated slots yet for MY2017.  Smiley

    Are all cars built before the factory closing in August MY2016? My car was built in June and it is designated a 2017.yes

    All 991.2 since release are Model Year 2017. Even cars manufactured in December 2015 is MY17. Same applies with the Macan GTS for instance. Car built from January 2016 and all GTS are MY17. MY17 will be 1,5 calendar year until MY18 is introduced in July 2017.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    For US DOT purposes, any MY car can only have one January during it's life span.

    So a MY2016 car can be for sale starting Feb 2015 to Dec 2016.


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    So you absolutely can't release a MY2016 in January 2015? In other words, does the MY have to actually correspond with a year in which it is sold? (Seems like probably yes, but...)

    Maybe this is some relic of the transition from horses to cars.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    apias:

    So you absolutely can't release a MY2016 in January 2015? In other words, does the MY have to actually correspond with a year in which it is sold? (Seems like probably yes, but...)

    Maybe this is some relic of the transition from horses to cars.

     

    Sort of a yes and a no.

    Any MY year car have to be for sale during it's corresponding year. But how long it can stay on that MY designation has a lot of leeway. In my example, which is the most extreme end of the sale, that MY car can be for sale for 23 months.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Whoopsy:

    For US DOT purposes, any MY car can only have one January during it's life span.

    So a MY2016 car can be for sale starting Feb 2015 to Dec 2016.

    Makes sense then. The 991.2 was released in the US as MY17 during the spring 2016 (april?), but in Europe it was released in December 2015 as MY17. Same with the Macan GTS, that was released in US in March 2016 as MY17. So then MY17 can "live" until July 2017 and for EU where the US DOT regulations does not apply the MY17 for 991.2 can run from December 2015 -> June 2017. Two january in EU and one in US. All good Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    SciFrog:

    Base turbo S cab $200k heart That means most cars will be between $215k and $240k, that's Ferrari and Lanborghini territory. They have gone insane. And for a car where the interior is the same as a $40k Boxster and that doesn't look really different than other Boxster Cayman or 991. After 3 years you won't be able to trade these in for $100k...

    This is a huge problem and Porsche is aware of that.

    Unfortunately, Audi isn't much different. Yes, the R8 interior is of very high quality and it looks different than the typical Audi interior, even the TT interior looks completely different but the virtual cockpit is basically the same in all newer Audi models, they didn't even bother to adapt the GUI, which is very very strange for such a product. I hope Audi revises this policy because I do not want to feel in an Audi A4 the same way I feel in a R8. This is just idiotic.

    It doesn't take much to offer different GUI styles and designs for every model but right now, Audi is using the same for all their cars equipped with virtual cockpit. Not very clever!

    The 991.2 Turbo S is a high performance car with four seats (or additional luggage room in the back, depends how you look at it) and performance is on par with the R8, the Huracan and other high performance cars but it neither looks nor sounds like a super sportscar and this is why I think it is too expensive, even if it may be unique on the market. 

    As long as there are customers paying these (high) prices, Porsche can ask them for this car. I just wonder where a 960 would be priced because I wouldn't want to pay another 50k EUR for 960 with 991.2 Turbo S performance. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Interesting comparison between the 991.2 Turbo S Cab and the 650S Spider, done by AMS and in English(!):

    http://www.ams-mag.com/comparison-tests/mclaren-650s-spider-porsche-911-turbo-s-cabrio-exclusive-biturbo-dual-8981786.html


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Christian,

    This is old AMS article and 991.1 Turbo S Cab is in comparison. 

    Btw, 650S Spider Hockenheim time is 1:08,7min with Corsas.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    Christian,

    This is old AMS article and 991.1 Turbo S Cab is in comparison. 

    Btw, 650S Spider Hockenheim time is 1:08,7min with Corsas.

     

    Sorry, I meant to write 991.1 Turbo S Cab but kind of got lost in the moment... Smiley

    I just wanted to make people aware of the 650S Spider performance...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    Christian,

    This is old AMS article and 991.1 Turbo S Cab is in comparison. 

    Btw, 650S Spider Hockenheim time is 1:08,7min with Corsas.

     

    With a time of 1:09.8 minutes, the Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabrio lags well behind the best time of its hard-top relative (1:08.7 min) in spite of the Dunlop Sport Maxx racing tyres.

    Maybe the 650s should have Trofeo tyres for equality but then the gap would be larger 


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Better wait for the test of the 991.2 version... It will be much better (tires, suspension, more power) Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Semi-slicks make no sense on cars used mainly on public roads. I made this mistake once and regretted it deeply.

    The 991.2 Turbo S uses the new generation (totally different compound mixture) PZero from Pirelli, which is at least at par with the Cup 2 performance-wise (dry). It seems to have the same wet capabilities as the "old" PZero, the Cup 2 isn't exactly good in rain.

    I can't wait to try this new PZero compound on my R8, I'll get my R02 (Audi version of the PZero N1 for the Turbo S) early August. Even with the R01, I doubt there is any car on the market which can beat the R8 in the wet, the AWD setup, even in Dynamic mode, is very neutral and the tires offer immense grip in the wet. 

    The 991.2 Turbo S with the new N1 PZero has already proven in Sport Auto that it can keep up with semi-slicks pretty well...(Huracan and R8 had semi-slicks).

    For me, it is more important how the car behaves on public roads and in rain, the track performance is usually a driver thing, not a car thing. I think I can compensate for those couple of milliseconds or even seconds... 

    Unless of course you are on the track on a regular basis, this is a completely different story. Then, a semi-slick makes sense but many people I know prefer to have two sets of tires, one with road tires and one with semi-slicks (Trofeo R seems to be very popular...).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Semi-slicks make no sense on cars used mainly on public roads.

    Smiley

    For me, it is more important how the car behaves on public roads and in rain, the track performance is usually a driver thing, not a car thing. I think I can compensate for those couple of milliseconds or even seconds... 

    SmileySmiley it is so childish to talk about 0,1 seconds or 1 second on a race track. If you use your car 80-90% on road then other things count. 

    Unless of course you are on the track on a regular basis, this is a completely different story. Then, a semi-slick makes sense but many people I know prefer to have two sets of tires, one with road tires and one with semi-slicks (Trofeo R seems to be very popular...).

    SmileySmiley and then maybe 19" and not 20" rims


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    MKSGR:

    Better wait for the test of the 991.2 version... It will be much better (tires, suspension, more power) Smiley

    Who cares Smiley Smiley


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    ALDO:
    RC:

    Semi-slicks make no sense on cars used mainly on public roads.

    Smiley

    My car is primarily a road car and changing from Michelin Super Sports to Cup 2s gave a huge improvement in dry grip giving ~30% more traction for acceleration, for this the downsides (of slightly harsher ride and having to keep speeds down in very wet roads) are worth it......


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Yup same opinion here. In the wet you need to take care with all tyres not only with semis ;) and in the dry the impact is huge for the driving dynamics when you use e.g. MPSC2

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:
    ALDO:
    RC:

    Semi-slicks make no sense on cars used mainly on public roads.

    Smiley

    My car is primarily a road car and changing from Michelin Super Sports to Cup 2s gave a huge improvement in dry grip giving ~30% more traction for acceleration, for this the downsides (of slightly harsher ride and having to keep speeds down in very wet roads) are worth it......

    Yes, I know...you barely have rain in the UK. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FZeEnoWk9g

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    I know i'm a little late to this, but I think macca are just really underrating their 570s since fabspeeds dyno gave out about 533 at the wheels, which at about 15% loss is 612.

    Honestly though, I think the 488 may have a bigger problem though.  It puts out about 535 at the wheels, so with about a 15% loss, you have 615.  Has any 488s gone up against a 991.2 turbo s?

    Just for measurement, their huracan dyno gave out 556 at the wheels, so probably at a 20% loss, its probably putting out 667 at the crank.  This one could be an anomaly though.


     
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