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    Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    ferrari-is-this-close-to-getting-it-1840658473


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    better making a pink car than a SUV


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    993 c2


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    xander71:

    better making a pink car than a SUV

    I enjoy my GLC 63 S tremendously... 🤗

    Currently driving a GLS 550 rental here in Florida, very nice and fast family car.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    RC i know that they are good cars..all people wants suv...but I think that the world can live without a ferrari suv,,and it would be better without it


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    993 c2


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Ferrari has made a huge mistake for its customers by producing so many different models of cars in such a short time period. Values of Speciale's continue to fall and there are now 70 + cars for sale on Mobile.de alone.  The number of Pista's for sale have hit 50 cars on the same website, with values continuing to drop.  The Tributo and the Stradale, and now the Roma have caused lots of people to cancel orders or try and resell their allocations on the secondary market, to keep having the latest ferrari. Imagine, my father in Law is still waiting for his Pista to be produced and delivered, while Ferrari is taking orders for the latest models, that take the performance and tech to the next level... He is really upset, trying to sell his speciale now is really difficult, as is selling his Pista, one thing for sure is Ferrari have potentially lost a great client, although they probably won't care....


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Moser:

    ...one thing for sure is Ferrari have potentially lost a great client, although they probably won't care....

    They won‘t care as long as they will have enough (new) customers to whom they will sell there latest and greatest. Smiley

    The times of Luca di Montezemolo are long gone, today it‘s all about the money. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Rossi, 

    May I ask you a quick question, are there any extra taxes to be paid in germany on a vehicle (Speciale) if it's already registered in a European Country (Cyprus) and has had the VAT and the Extra 10% paid to be registered in Cyprus? The vehicle has a European Certificate of Conformity as well.  From what I can find online, the only thing that is to be paid by the purchaser in Germany should be the Road Tax correct?  I must be missing something because all potential customers for the vehicle go on about all the taxes that have to be paid on the vehicle to bring it to germany. Just to have the full background, the car was originally purchased from Scuderia Lebanon (the official Ferrari Dealer), where my father in law was residing before moving to Cyprus, and registering the vehicle here and paying the 10% and the Vat Required.

     

    Please let me know, and if anyone else has some insight please chime in....


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Moser:

    Rossi, 

    May I ask you a quick question, are there any extra taxes to be paid in germany on a vehicle (Speciale) if it's already registered in a European Country (Cyprus) and has had the VAT and the Extra 10% paid to be registered in Cyprus? The vehicle has a European Certificate of Conformity as well.  From what I can find online, the only thing that is to be paid by the purchaser in Germany should be the Road Tax correct?  I must be missing something because all potential customers for the vehicle go on about all the taxes that have to be paid on the vehicle to bring it to germany. Just to have the full background, the car was originally purchased from Scuderia Lebanon (the official Ferrari Dealer), where my father in law was residing before moving to Cyprus, and registering the vehicle here and paying the 10% and the Vat Required.

     

    Please let me know, and if anyone else has some insight please chime in....

    How many km does the Ferrari have? As far as I know, the car is considered to be "new" if it hasn't been driven more than 6000 km and/or is younger than 6 months. In this case, the 19% VAT has to be paid in Germany but at the same time, the VAT from Cyprus can be refunded (which is basically the same 19% VAT as in Germany, so...).

    I do not think there is a real tax problem here but a car imported from Lebanon (through Cyprus) is certainly less valuable in Germany than a car bought as a "German" car from a German dealer. This could certainly cost you money, no doubt but if the car has a 100% history with all documentation, the "loss" may not be as big as expected. Depends also on how much demand there is for this specific model in Germany and also if the price is very high and people think twice before paying a high sum for an "imported" car. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    xander71:

    RC i know that they are good cars..all people wants suv...but I think that the world can live without a ferrari suv,,and it would be better without it

    I don't know, I think the world needs diversity and diversity and choice are always good things. So if people want to buy a Ferrari SUV (and I assume many people do, otherwise Ferrari won't build this thing), why not? Lamborghini did the same and the Urus proved to be a huge success. I love the Urus and every single person who drove it seems to love it too, so I guess Lamborghini did everything right, so why wouldn't Ferrari?! Smiley At least they won't offer a Diesel SUV like Porsche did. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    RC the Speciale is 2014 December Registration and has 19,500 kms, so definately not new. Still has Ferrari European  Warranty as well until July 2020, with all history available.  I understand the slight discount on imported vehicles which isn't a problem, I was just wondering if there is anything like an extra excise tax which doesn't seem to be the case. Thanks for the clarification.

     

    Moser


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Moser:

    Rossi, 

    May I ask you a quick question, are there any extra taxes to be paid in germany on a vehicle (Speciale) if it's already registered in a European Country (Cyprus) and has had the VAT and the Extra 10% paid to be registered in Cyprus? The vehicle has a European Certificate of Conformity as well.  From what I can find online, the only thing that is to be paid by the purchaser in Germany should be the Road Tax correct?  I must be missing something because all potential customers for the vehicle go on about all the taxes that have to be paid on the vehicle to bring it to germany. Just to have the full background, the car was originally purchased from Scuderia Lebanon (the official Ferrari Dealer), where my father in law was residing before moving to Cyprus, and registering the vehicle here and paying the 10% and the Vat Required.

    RC always answered your question. Smiley

    You pay 19% VAT in Germany, there are no additional luxury taxes for sportscars, the original VAT can be refunded.


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    I agree that Today it is all about the money (Ferrari's money).  In the LdM days it was also all about money, the owners money.  Owners in the LdM days got used to flipping Ferraris every few years with virtually no depreciation, due to heavily managed inventory and other market "tricks".  This was not sustainable, but many owners still feel that Ferrari should run their business in a way that props up the value of products that Ferrari has already sold at the expense of new products that Ferrari could sell.  This is not the way a modern global business behaves.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    So owners are now upset because their cars depreciate indecision

    At least they should be happy to get the cars they wanted because it looks like the ''points'' system takes some time to give access to nice cars.

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    kiss


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    the-missile:

    So owners are now upset because their cars depreciate indecision

    At least they should be happy to get the cars they wanted because it looks like the ''points'' system takes some time to give access to nice cars.

     

    I am actually happy if these cars depreciate because it means that they will be more accessible to more people. This may or may not be good from a certain point of view but in times of increased criticism regarding individual traffic, in times of increased electro mobility, I think that it is a blessing that these cars will be affordable as well to those who really want to drive them. 

    Do I speculate that my Performante will increase in value or at least keep it's value over years? Of course, why wouldn't I? Do I really care? To be honest, I couldn't care less. I know that I won't find a similar car in the future, unless I buy it used. This is a keeper, same goes to other cars which won't be available in a similar form anymore.

    It is very difficult to predict what cars will hold their value or even increase their value, time will tell. I have only one, so my "loss" would be manageable if my car drops in value. I'm in for the driving, not profits. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    I was in the Ferrari program for many years. Suffered little to no depreciation. It was a nice gig. However with the increase in production and introduction of new models, the no depreciation model became dubious. Ferrari is trying to reclaim that model by offering a seven year warranty.


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    I agree with everything you guys are saying, it's not just about the lack of depreciation, but there was some more exclusivity associated with these brands, that is also going the way of the dodo..... 

     


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    All of this is a direct consequence of a public listing. They have to demonstrate sustainable earnings growth. The levers they can pull are price and volume. On the volume front they are filling more niches to attract different types of customers  so that they have a product offering for all tastes and wallet sizes.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    crayphile:

    All of this is a direct consequence of a public listing. They have to demonstrate sustainable earnings growth. The levers they can pull are price and volume. On the volume front they are filling more niches to attract different types of customers  so that they have a product offering for all tastes and wallet sizes.

    Good point about the public listing. Not sure why they did it since I believe they had the highest profit margin on each car sold. They must have known going public would make the brand less exclusive.Smiley


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    nberry:
    crayphile:

    All of this is a direct consequence of a public listing. They have to demonstrate sustainable earnings growth. The levers they can pull are price and volume. On the volume front they are filling more niches to attract different types of customers  so that they have a product offering for all tastes and wallet sizes.

    Good point about the public listing. Not sure why they did it since I believe they had the highest profit margin on each car sold. They must have known going public would make the brand less exclusive.Smiley

    You answered your own question. The previous investors and owners at Fiat realized this margin and exclusivity could command a significantly higher valuation multiple as a stand-alone business vs. the multiple it received as a small piece of the lower margin corporate pie.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    didn't need to issue 5 different sports car. just release 1 SUV and you will be OK. indecision

    2 SUVs and you will be the reference symbol angry


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Wow Ferrari sold 10,131 cars in 2019! Cheap pista anyone! They copying Porsche selling as many GTs as possible. 


    --

    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Same mistake strategy in terms of long term brand value and profit.

    Short-term minded strategy as result of Ferrari being now a stock-listed company :-(


    --

    Ferrari 488 Pista / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / AMG GTR / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / 981 GT4 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    and the objectif for 2020 is to do more sales then in 2019


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Gnil:

    and the objectif for 2020 is to do more sales then in 2019

    Good for us who want to pickup a cheap Pista in a few years time Smiley look at the price of a used 600LT...ridiculous, but good "Smiley


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Is this week's mistake is suing a charity over the Purosangue name?  Hard to see how this makes Ferrari look good.


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Purosangue is the opposite of a SUV vehicle anyway smiley


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Gnil:

    and the objectif for 2020 is to do more sales then in 2019

     

    Down side of being listed. Stock price are being traded at a multiple of future earnings, that means stock holders expect the revenue to grow which means sales has to go up.


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    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Well if compared to the number of cars produced in the world today 10.000 ferraris are a smaller % of the cars than in the 80 when they produced 3000 ca.. so in big numbers 10.000 cars in todays market are equivalent to 3000 cars in the 1980!!!!!!!

    but in my opinion to many, they should to super cars for high price and thats it...no need to have 25 models for sale...you have porsche for that


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    993 c2


    Re: Is Ferrari making a mistake?

    Guys, some of you really need to drive an Urus, a Cayenne Turbo S, a GLC 63S AMG or a Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk to understand "modern" high performance SUVs. They are fun, lots of fun, especially when you need more luggage room. I get it why people love SUVs and I really think that in a couple of years, we are going to see 2000 hp EV SUV monsters and people will be amazed of how much fun they are.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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