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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    spudgun:

    This forum is getting predictable: Leawood who brings up his Tesla and Nberry talking about getting attention while driving. mail

    If you all would prefer to not hear from us at all that is fine.  It’s called a circle jerk. Echo chamber. you name it. 

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Wonderbar:

    Here we go again...heart

    Think I'm going to troll the watch thread with a photo of my Garmin smartwatch and compare it to a Rolex 

    I get that. But if Rolex got into the smart watch business with perhaps a GPS function would you not be tempted to compare it to the Garmin?  Troll, me?  Lol. Cheers

    Not if the Rolex was made to Rolex standards, design and materials and my Garmin only had a longer battery and that it is a cheaper watch... Rolex buyers be laughin' lol Don't get me wrong I love my Garmin, best watch there is by far for my training/fitness needs, but its a 700€ watch...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Except Porsche standards are crap these days. The plastics and quality overall is not that great,  economy is not good and performance is equal to other electrics.  Forget self driving of course. We can’t discuss that without you guys acting like the robots are out to kill us.  There is no significant reason I see to justify the double+ price for less features and safety. The quality is a weak reason and it draws the type of attention I don’t enjoy.  Dreaming of the Porsche being a Rolex is interesting but have you looked at Porsche resale values  vs Rolex?  IMHO the Taycan will suffer Porsche’s worst depreciation.  They will have more capacity than demand and as people become aware of the shortcomings and better products the resale value will plummet. Just my 2cents.  In the meanwhile Tesla/ Elon is making batteries, powerwalls, cars, trucks, spaceships, selling insurance, boring tunnels, and deploying satellites for new internet connections around the world. It is on the way to the $1000 stock price I predicted. 
    The fact remains that I have driven the model 3 and most of you who dog my comments have not.  Drive one for a day and get back to me. Have I mentioned this?   Carlos thinks life is too short. Sorry about that. 
     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Keep yourself believing all that if it makes you happier, but you should just be happy with the Model 3 if it fits your needs like my Garmin, so much so that I rarely use my Rolex, no need to trying to compare with things on anther league, just looks lame.

    Like thinking autopilot is important to members of a sportscar forum, to me its for soccer moms and Sunday drivers or people with miserable commutes, I have no interest on it whatsoever, nor does the target audience for the Taycan which is completely different than that of a Model3, that is why it doesn't even have one, noticed that?


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    We are all happy with our cars. Including my Turbo. And I am certain the Taycan is very fun to drive.  I get it’s a sports car forum. I love driving cars but I have also seen serious injuries due to bad drivers. This impacts all of us so a major safety advance like self driving is important.  Just like antilock brakes, power steering, headlights etc. I could go on.  What I don’t want to do is be that guy who keeps my dear friends in the dark by being bullied into silence. I also don’t want to be the last guy defending the horse and buggy in an Auto age.  Technology is a moving target. Part of a forum should be the exposure to cool new stuff.   I don’t type this stuff to insult any of you or challenge your convictions. Quite the opposite. So it kinda does not matter to me if you are offended. I did not intend that and I can’t control your bias. Cheers and if you get a minute drive a model 3 performance. That is perhaps the only way you will get it. I’m pretty confident of that. Merry Christmas! 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Until self-driving performs well beyond a six sigma measure of reliability, human drivers will still be part of the driving equation and affecting overall road safety.  Once aids, or more accurately props, are in place, driving skills deteriorate and when that bad driver is called upon to intercede, their bad driving skills are multiplied.  This, not a technology deficit, is why most other manufacturers have kept the man-in-the-loop with their Level 2 autonomous systems.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    spudgun:

    This forum is getting predictable: Leawood who brings up his Tesla and Nberry talking about getting attention while driving. mail

    If you all would prefer to not hear from us at all that is fine.  It’s called a circle jerk. Echo chamber. you name it. 

     

    It’s called ‘Taycan thread’. Try sticking to the subject, noone here is interested in your Model 3, how great it may be: it has nothing to do with a Taycan. Many Tesla forums out there, maybe try post!ng there? Smiley


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I don't have a dog in this fight. I gave my impressions regarding the styling of the car and it confirmed what the Forbes auto reviewer wrote, The car doesn't have street presence. You might as well be driving a Camry. 

    As far as caring as to how the car looks on the street, I believe that's why car manufacturers offer various colors, employ design studios and other styling experts. For anyone on this forum to claim that they don't care what the car looks like on the street is being disingenuous and a phony. 

    Finally, the Tesla 3 has been lauded by just about every car reviewer. Consider this; you could buy four Tesla 3's for one Taycan. kiss 

    Vanity is the mother of financial stupidity.


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Wonderbar:

    Here we go again...heart

    Think I'm going to troll the watch thread with a photo of my Garmin smartwatch and compare it to a Rolex 

    I get that. But if Rolex got into the smart watch business with perhaps a GPS function would you not be tempted to compare it to the Garmin?  Troll, me?  Lol. Cheers

     

    Actually you could perhaps use Tag Heuer or Louis Vuitton smart watch as the other comparison. Those 2 are costing quite a bit more than the Garmin, but while they don't sell as well as the Garmin, they were never meant to sell in the same volume as a Garmin. Tag Heuer and LV had their target audience in a segment above the Garmin, and people are still buying them. 

    A Garmin maybe have more functions, debatable point but let's pretend it is, but the buyers don't care also.

    That target audience are also not really interested in the watch's resale value after a few years, they simply just plop the watch in a drawer and go buy something else. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    spudgun:
    Leawood911:
    spudgun:

    This forum is getting predictable: Leawood who brings up his Tesla and Nberry talking about getting attention while driving. mail

    If you all would prefer to not hear from us at all that is fine.  It’s called a circle jerk. Echo chamber. you name it. 

     

    It’s called ‘Taycan thread’. Try sticking to the subject, noone here is interested in your Model 3, how great it may be: it has nothing to do with a Taycan. Many Tesla forums out there, maybe try post!ng there? Smiley

    Yup. We always stick to topics around here. Cool. So this is a Taycan only thread. One can not mention any direct  competition (as only I perceive it, of course). This says a lot about the future success of this car.  One must ignore all other cars to appreciate it.  Too funny.  No one interested at all. Pretty confident statement given how insecure Everyone here seems to be about any competition. Lol. I will not post to this precious Taycan thread any more mention of tesla or comparisons so I don’t disturb the group think going on here.  Enjoy


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Wonderbar:

    Here we go again...heart

    Think I'm going to troll the watch thread with a photo of my Garmin smartwatch and compare it to a Rolex 

    I get that. But if Rolex got into the smart watch business with perhaps a GPS function would you not be tempted to compare it to the Garmin?  Troll, me?  Lol. Cheers

     

    Actually you could perhaps use Tag Heuer or Louis Vuitton smart watch as the other comparison. Those 2 are costing quite a bit more than the Garmin, but while they don't sell as well as the Garmin, they were never meant to sell in the same volume as a Garmin. Tag Heuer and LV had their target audience in a segment above the Garmin, and people are still buying them. 

    A Garmin maybe have more functions, debatable point but let's pretend it is, but the buyers don't care also.

    That target audience are also not really interested in the watch's resale value after a few years, they simply just plop the watch in a drawer and go buy something else. 

    Analogies never work well. This one seems to have canceled itself out. I do understand brand perception but also that this must be continually earned by each new product.  And this is a Taycan thread not a Rolex thread - much less Garmin (HQ of Garmin just a few miles from my house so it must be shitty product!) 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    This is getting a bit boring and I don't care much but for some reason I do miss Noone1 as his conversations were at least more interesting and he seemed like a bright person. 

    This conversation  is  becoming similar to a politics thread, 2 parties and no one cares what the other one says mail

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:

    Until self-driving performs well beyond a six sigma measure of reliability, human drivers will still be part of the driving equation and affecting overall road safety.  Once aids, or more accurately props, are in place, driving skills deteriorate and when that bad driver is called upon to intercede, their bad driving skills are multiplied.  This, not a technology deficit, is why most other manufacturers have kept the man-in-the-loop with their Level 2 autonomous systems.  

    And this is why the person is still in the loop!! The value in it presently is as an aid to driving and safety system. Just like anti lock brakes don’t stop for you but they help you be safer.  All those self driving features are on standby as safety features at all times even when not using autopilot.  While in this stage the AI is learning and the software is constantly improved.  If you are waiting for a perfect system to come out all at once you will never see it. These are exactly the steps technology and regulations must take.  No one has ever claimed that ignoring the clear warning to always pay attention while using these systems is a good idea.  Using them every day I can say it works but not in this thread. I am speaking of the tech generically. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    AP911:

    This is getting a bit boring and I don't care much but for some reason I do miss Noone1 as his conversations were at least more interesting and he seemed like a bright person. 

    This conversation  is  becoming similar to a politics thread, 2 parties and no one cares what the other one says mail

     

     

    Depends on the point of view. Perhaps it's worse.

    It still talking about EV. But one side don't think anything other than a Tesla is a proper EV. At least when talking about normal cars we acknowledged Ferraris and Lambos are still great cars outside of Porsche. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Porsche Taycan 4S video review...

    Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z20rftU_phE

    Smiley


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Until self-driving performs well beyond a six sigma measure of reliability, human drivers will still be part of the driving equation and affecting overall road safety.  Once aids, or more accurately props, are in place, driving skills deteriorate and when that bad driver is called upon to intercede, their bad driving skills are multiplied.  This, not a technology deficit, is why most other manufacturers have kept the man-in-the-loop with their Level 2 autonomous systems.  

    And this is why the person is still in the loop!! The value in it presently is as an aid to driving and safety system. Just like anti lock brakes don’t stop for you but they help you be safer.  All those self driving features are on standby as safety features at all times even when not using autopilot.  While in this stage the AI is learning and the software is constantly improved.  If you are waiting for a perfect system to come out all at once you will never see it. These are exactly the steps technology and regulations must take.  No one has ever claimed that ignoring the clear warning to always pay attention while using these systems is a good idea.  Using them every day I can say it works but not in this thread. I am speaking of the tech generically. 

    Congratulations.  What you just wrote is a tort lawyer’s wet dream.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    I will not post to this precious Taycan thread any more mention of tesla or comparisons so I don’t disturb the group think going on here.  Enjoy

    Thank you. 


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    now these are big brakes!

    022A040C-7673-414A-82E7-D7B766C3A82C.jpeg

     


    --

    Tesla Model S P100d & Model X P90D & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. Tesla Model 3 Performance on order. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:
    AP911:

    This is getting a bit boring and I don't care much but for some reason I do miss Noone1 as his conversations were at least more interesting and he seemed like a bright person. 

    This conversation  is  becoming similar to a politics thread, 2 parties and no one cares what the other one says mail

     

     

    Depends on the point of view. Perhaps it's worse.

    It still talking about EV. But one side don't think anything other than a Tesla is a proper EV. At least when talking about normal cars we acknowledged Ferraris and Lambos are still great cars outside of Porsche. 

     

    If directed at me I would disagree this is my opinion. All I have done is compare specs which is kind of a car forum thing. I never said anything like no other car is a true EV. I may have mentioned that some are far more vertically integrated and have more features or better safety/efficiency for perhaps a better cost of ownership. If you then draw the conclusion that only a certain brand,I will not mention, is a true EV that is 100% your conclusion. I mean it does make sense but I would not go that far personally.  I have said many time however that the Porsche is a fine car and I am certain it drives great and is blazing fast. I am far more balanced than some who can only process one message. Lol. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    AP911:

    This is getting a bit boring and I don't care much but for some reason I do miss Noone1 as his conversations were at least more interesting and he seemed like a bright person. 

    This conversation  is  becoming similar to a politics thread, 2 parties and no one cares what the other one says mail

     

     

    Depends on the point of view. Perhaps it's worse.

    It still talking about EV. But one side don't think anything other than a Tesla is a proper EV. At least when talking about normal cars we acknowledged Ferraris and Lambos are still great cars outside of Porsche. 

     

    If directed at me I would disagree this is my opinion. All I have done is compare specs which is kind of a car forum thing. I never said anything like no other car is a true EV. I may have mentioned that some are far more vertically integrated and have more features or better safety/efficiency for perhaps a better cost of ownership. If you then draw the conclusion that only a certain brand,I will not mention, is a true EV that is 100% your conclusion. I mean it does make sense but I would not go that far personally.  I have said many time however that the Porsche is a fine car and I am certain it drives great and is blazing fast. I am far more balanced than some who can only process one message. Lol. 

     

    Nah not directed at you. 

    The primary argument from Tesla people is that everything else doesn't goes as far, not as efficient, or interior quality don't matter because of the performance, blah blah blah. Their Tesla is the best period. For some unknown reason trashing the competition, or just about any EV to boast about their own Tesla is the primary m.o. of the Tesla cult. Not even Porsche diehards will do that to a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.

    There is no such thing as 'best' car. Best can only used in context, for someone the Taycan is the best EV, it is a Porsche, period. They don't care if a Tesla can go farther on a full charge. For others a e-Tron is the best EV. And some more think their Chevy Bolt is the best EV, others choose the Leaf, or the Jaguar I-Pace. 

    Everyone has their own measuring stick. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Nick, I agree. I think Mike would too. Where I disagree with you is contrary to your above post, it’s the Taycan enthusiasts denigrating Tesla and not the other way around. Mike and others including myself decided it was time to defend Tesla despite it bad boy leader.

    Make no mistake, if someone offered me the keys to every EV and I had to choose one, it would be the Taycan. I believe Mike would as well. I hope the Taycan becomes Porsche’s best seller. That would be good for the sport car division.kiss


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    the last few posts are heading into the direction of happy ending...  cool


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster
     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    nberry:

    Nick, I agree. I think Mike would too. Where I disagree with you is contrary to your above post, it’s the Taycan enthusiasts denigrating Tesla and not the other way around. Mike and others including myself decided it was time to defend Tesla despite it bad boy leader.

    Make no mistake, if someone offered me the keys to every EV and I had to choose one, it would be the Taycan. I believe Mike would as well. I hope the Taycan becomes Porsche’s best seller. That would be good for the sport car division.kiss

     

    That one point is extremely debatable. Before the Taycan was released and specs were just trickling out, the attack from the Tesla crowd had already started, be it range, efficiency, or price, when that was announced. 

    For me, I still wouldn't choose the Taycan, I would still pick my e-Tron. And some here considered me a diehard Porsche guy Smiley

    I said it before, current hybrids are still king over current EV, any EV. They get all the benefits from the government for the green initiative but none of the downsides. 

    Maybe in a few more years when the EV technology and infrastructures start catching up the EV will close in. 

    No point right now to buy a EV, everyone knows these current cars will be obsolete in no time, even the 1st generation of the next generation 800V Taycan, leasing them is the best bet. 

    Taycan also won't be Porsche's best seller, the target segment is too small to be one. They didn't go for the mainstream mass market like the Teslas, they go for the top with the biggest profit margin as they are now in a position to be the sole provider of a luxury EV. That segment is theirs for a while too as no other manufacturer has a product ready to compete against them for a while.  It's just a product for them to get in the door of the EV segment. Perhaps the EV Macan that's coming could be the one that might be their volume leader.

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Nick, I am also hesitant to buy or even lease a Taycan now. I’m extremely pleased with my 2018 Panamera Turbo, and don’t know whether I want to let it go. The backseat is extremely comfortable for two people, and the power is just plenty at 550hp.  Initial acceleration of my car is slightly better than the 4S Taycan, although I’m sure the Taycan handles better overall. My dealer does not have any are for sale or lease yet, but I would be interested in trying one out. I did see the car at the Frankfurt show in September, and noticed that the rear seat room is not comparable to the Panamera.
     

    Finally, I’m so glad that we’re moving away from the Tesla versus Porsche debate, was of no interest to me at all.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Yes, the Panamera is a superior product over the Taycan right now. But they had to do a EV and they picked the right segment to do it, luxury EV, luxury EV sedan where there is no competition yet and not for a foreseeable future. Bentley, Rolls Royce, Mercedes all don't have EV sedan in the pipeline. Tesla, even in the Model S trim, sits one step below so they are not the competition either. They are going to own that segment fro a long time.

    Porsche purposely made the Taycan one size smaller to not be a direct competitor to the Panamera. They are missing a mid-size sedan anyways since they made the Panamera big. 

     

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    interiorwise the taycan wins hands down - the non leather version is very impressive ! 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Drove a Taycan Turbo recently, some impressions:

    1.  Takes some time to get used to the quiet.  You don't know it's on unless you check the lights on the dash.  

    2.  Very fast, torque is instant.  About same 0-60 as my Panamera Turbo, but torque is more direct, instant.

    3.  Very very stable in straight line and corners.  You feel extremely connected to the road, more so than my PT and a friend's new 992s.  Feels "planted" on the pavement, more so than any Porsche I have ever driven.  Impressive. You are in a performance car, no doubt (maybe a heavier but extremely powerful 992 feel?).

    4.  Interior fit and finish is superb, more sleek and modern than the 992.  Similar to PT interior.  Outstanding design.  

    5.  Front room is fine, rear is tight for longer trips.  My son is 6''2' and didn't complain, but PT is much more comfortable and roomy.

    6.  Overall, Taycan struck me as a different, not necessarily better, Porsche product. Deal breaker for me is the rear seat  room.  I like the comfort and space of my PT, at this point in my life.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Thanks for your impressions wink

     


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Should add that not going through gears, by paddles or shifter or even auto shift, is pretty cool.  A relief, really.  Certainly different!


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Car was white/black, pretty standard options.  A dealer demo.  Dealer also had. a Gentian Blue Turbo S waiting for customer pick up.  All sorts of carbon options, Mission E wheels, ceramics, etc. Topped out at $210K.  Knockout, for some rich and lucky customer.  Geez...


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Salesman also mentioned there would be a Taycan base model, below the 4S, coming in summer 2020.  Anyone here heard that?


     
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