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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

      Hilarious  and true! wink

    kiss


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    Sometimes buying a car has no point laugh

    I like this a lot Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    2150kg.... Is the weight of Panamera 4 E-Hybrid. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    olli:

    German MSRP for 4S is €113k, 4S Diesel €116k...not €133 and €137k, respectively.

    True but I doubt we are going to see many Panamera leaving the factory without at least a 140k EUR price tag on them. Smiley Not even including the Turbo here...most Turbo will be beyond 180 or 190k EUR. Smiley

    Driving a RS6 Performance with Audi Sport exhaust (9k option) right now. MSRP is 156k EUR. Ouch. Wouldn't pay more than 120k for this car, sorry.

    The prices started to be insane...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    Driving a RS6 Performance with Audi Sport exhaust (9k option) right now. MSRP is 156k EUR. Ouch. Wouldn't pay more than 120k for this car, sorry.

    The prices started to be insane...

    Well configured Panamera Turbo is 200k EUR without anything crazy. The trick with the Audi RS6 is that you should be able to get at least 20% discount. It's the end of the life of the model and they aren't an easy sell anyway. I already see offers for the RS6 Performance with ceramic breaks (an absolute must) for 120K EUR brand new.

    For the first few months of the production of the Panamera there won't be serious discounts, so a nice specced car would be 190k EUR. I think that a 70k EUR price difference is fair. And I wouldn't want to have a 600hp RS6 behind me on the autobahn...In this league those things matter even only on paper.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    You can easily get a 5-6% discount on any new Panamera in the U.S.  And many, if not most, are leased so customers are never paying even the discounted price over the normal three year period.  And the only car you have to worry about being faster than you is the police cruiser who will always outrun you with tracking and radio communication.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Will U.S. Panamera debut be at Los Angeles Show in November?

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Not sure I like the sound of the new Turbo, sounds like the caterpillar currently working at my new home construction.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    ...

    The prices started to be insane...

    And economists tell us there is no inflation... Dismal science indeed. Whether higher-end housing, cars, apparel, or restaurants, it looks to me like all prices are going a bit ga-ga.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    olli:

    German MSRP for 4S is €113k, 4S Diesel €116k...not €133 and €137k, respectively.

    True but I doubt we are going to see many Panamera leaving the factory without at least a 140k EUR price tag on them. Smiley Not even including the Turbo here...most Turbo will be beyond 180 or 190k EUR. Smiley

    Driving a RS6 Performance with Audi Sport exhaust (9k option) right now. MSRP is 156k EUR. Ouch. Wouldn't pay more than 120k for this car, sorry.

    The prices started to be insane...

    You are so right!

    That RS6 might have a great performance and insane engine. But come on - you are talking about an Audi A6 fror 156k. Even 120 is much more than you should pay for. You neighbor might drive the same body with a sticker of 40k€. There is just something odd here (I know -  it is the same with other brands). This kind of cars is making a car like an McLaren S570 looking like a bargain - super rare, super fast, super sportscar for almost the same price!

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The RS6 doesn't exactly have the same body as the normal A6, you can recognize the RS6 from a mile away. 

    I also agree with Herbaliser: I can order a brand-new RS6 Performance to my specs at my local dealer for a MSRP of 160k EUR, let the dealer register the car to the dealership, me driving the first 1000 km with it (run-in), dealer gets two months and another 3000 km with the car (testcar) and I get the car for 120k EUR in the end, with a five year warranty. Not even talking about the often very good lease conditions because Audi uses Volkswagen Leasing/Financial.

    I do not try to compare an Audi RS6 to a Panamera (the new Panamera interior is already miles ahead of the current RS6 interior) but performance-wise, the RS6 Performance is actually a tiny bit faster than the Panamera Turbo, so they are quite comparable. Especially since the Panamera would cost at least 50k EUR more.

    What I am trying to say: Prices got out of hand. Now with the low interest rates and people not knowing where to put their money into, luxury cars have good sales figures. Although...the first Panamera generation sold pretty slow in the end, I just hope it was just an end-of-production slowing down and not something else.

    Last but not least, I do not understand where this "this is just an Audi..." comes from: Looking at my R8, I can tell everyone at Porsche that I do not any Porsche at the same build quality level. Seriously. The new Panamera maybe (haven't paid attention to details yet...) excluded. Whenever I enter my 991.1 GTS, I get the feeling that this car is a decade behind my R8. Seriously. angry

    When people get the feeling that they do not get enough for the money, trouble starts.

    I like the new Panamera but I am worried about three things:

    1. Prices: Many such cars (luxury sedans) are used as business cars (especially in Europe and Germany...the 7 series and S class are typical business cars over here, "recognized" by the tax authorities and clients). Businesses rely on very good lease/financial offers from manufacturers and I do not see how Porsche Financial is going to match these offers because BMW, Mercedes and Audi have really good offers. Another problem could be that the Panamera is just too...stylish for business usage. No kidding.

    2. Technology: With Tesla basically revolutionizing the luxury sedan markets, especially in the US, I wonder where a Panamera (for much more money) would fit in, especially since there is no electric Panamera available yet, just that hybrid. I am also worried that the typical Panamera customer will have issues with the touch technology, even if it seems to work well.

    3. Resale value: With the second generation on the market, prices for the "old" Panamera, especially pre-facelift, will drop substantially. I'm afraid that this could also have an impact on 2nd gen Panamera used car prices.

    It will be interesting to see how the Panamera evolves but I am a bit skeptical. The new Panamera is the car people expected from the first generation. This can be good or bad.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I'd rather buy an RS6 / M5 instead of a W12 Bentley or any AMG65. In fact I did and not for financial reasons. And I know at least 10 multi-supercar owners got the RS6 for their daily driver. It's about choosing performance over luxury and showing off...Even when you are traveling with your family. 

    The new Panamera is the only option if you want both. For me it is that simple. It will be a huge hit at the current economical cycle.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Herbaliser:

    I'd rather buy an RS6 / M5 instead of a W12 Bentley or any AMG65. In fact I did and not for financial reasons. And I know at least 10 multi-supercar owners got the RS6 for their daily driver. It's about choosing performance over luxury and showing off...Even when you are traveling with your family. 

    The new Panamera is the only option if you want both. For me it is that simple. It will be a huge hit at the current economical cycle.

    I can see this in Asia and North America but I am skeptical about Europe. We still have an economic crisis simmering and social awareness is something you need to take into consideration over here. Certain cars are still an expression of wealth and if you express excessive wealth, this can be a problem here. Cars like the BMW 7 series or Mercedes S class or Audi A8 are socially "accepted" because they are looking very inoffensive and...why not say it...basically boring.  The Panamera started a new design language in this luxury sedan class and it may be a bit to stylish for certain regions.

    I am curious to see how it works out for Porsche. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    These luxury sedan prices have gotten way out of hands. A Macan turbo can do the job for a fraction of the price, and be under the radar if needed be. And you can buy a 3 year old Ferrari FF for the prices mentioned above...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    These luxury sedan prices have gotten way out of hands. A Macan turbo can do the job for a fraction of the price, and be under the radar if needed be. And you can buy a 3 year old Ferrari FF for the prices mentioned above...

    That why buying used is the best game in town these days. All these 6 figure "normal" cars shed value faster than can you even use them.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    A good sedan remains more comfortable than any SUV .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Gnil:

    A good sedan remains more comfortable than any SUV .

     

    Debatable on the comfortable part.

    Some people like the higher sitting position in a SUV and extra room to move around inside and considered that more comfortable.

    Others thinks the better body control of a sedan is more comfortable, less rocking around in corners.

    Europeans never warmed up to the SUV idea, they much prefer a wagon, rest of the world however have a completely opposite taste.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    No SUV has the comfort seats ( specially at the back ) a 7 series, or S class has . And the driving is always smoother in a sedan ( due to the suspension set up possibilities that are not impaired by the height ) 

    SUV are more practical, but not more comfortable .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    These luxury sedan prices have gotten way out of hands. A Macan turbo can do the job for a fraction of the price, and be under the radar if needed be. And you can buy a 3 year old Ferrari FF for the prices mentioned above...

    I guess that depends on the definition of the word "fraction" Smiley

    In Switzerland a Macan Turbo S is CHF 130k and an Audi RS6 is CHF 160k, both with options. So ca 20% more.

    Having said that, the RS6 has more space, is more powerful and has far better performance. Or if one prefers the word "fraction", then the Macan Turbo S has got a fraction of the performance of an Audi RS6 Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I couldn't resist. Have ordered a Panamera 4 E-hybrid! Build in march, delivery in april!

    Current spec is Night blue metallic with full black leather, 21" turbo wheels, Panoroof, 18-way seats, Innodrive and all the new other tech-nannies, Sport design package, PSE and a bunch of none important stuff. 

    Testdrove an ordinary Panamera 4 today and really liked it. It was a very basic car but with AS/PASM. My Macan Turbo felt like a bus when I got back into it and the Panamera gave me some 911-vibes. Steering and chassis is so much better than in the Macan, and this is the OLD panamera....

    Think the e-hybrid is nice with all the tech. Also now huge improvements to the drivetrain, PDK (instead of Tiptronic) and also the hybrid now comes with 4wd kiss

    It's not a true sportscar but it will be a nice and comfy daily driver with some sporty capabilities. Also like the possibility to run stealth mode on Electricity in town and pump it up in Sport+ and turn on the PSE when that more dynamic itch strikes!

    What not to like? indecision
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Congratulations on new order kiss Can you order quad squre exhaust tips? 


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Thanks!

    Nope, Turbo without PSE is the only model that got the square exhaust. I don't like them anyway and got rid of them on my Macan Turbo by getting PSE smiley

    Not sure though if I should get the PSE exhaust tips in black high-gloss or brushed alu... Currently lean towards the alu.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    We must have drove a different car angry The old Panamera S or turbo wasn't very impressive in handling and no fun factor. Ride was comfy and handling efficient but no direct feedback from the road, on par with Macan and not that far from a Cayenne.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Lukas:

    I couldn't resist. Have ordered a Panamera 4 E-hybrid! Build in march, delivery in april!

    What not to like? indecision

    Congratulations! I'm tempted too, but I think I will hold off till the  Mission E comes out  for the full on electric experience. I think this Panamera 4 E-hybrid is going to be a real hit in the meantime.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    These luxury sedan prices have gotten way out of hands. A Macan turbo can do the job for a fraction of the price, and be under the radar if needed be. And you can buy a 3 year old Ferrari FF for the prices mentioned above...

    Pseudo SUV's such as the Macan are the least logical types of vehicles I can think of. Not particularly comfortable, very small, higher center of gravity. Good for women to move around in the city with a Porsche badge...Certainly not a car to be considered by potential sports sedan buyers.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Herbaliser:
    SciFrog:

    These luxury sedan prices have gotten way out of hands. A Macan turbo can do the job for a fraction of the price, and be under the radar if needed be. And you can buy a 3 year old Ferrari FF for the prices mentioned above...

    Pseudo SUV's such as the Macan are the least logical types of vehicles I can think of. Not particularly comfortable, very small, higher center of gravity. Good for women to move around in the city with a Porsche badge...Certainly not a car to be considered by potential sports sedan buyers.

    +1

    Unnecessarily heavy too.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Too heavy but lighter than a Panamera smiley

    My point is sport sedan buyers is a dying breed at least in the USA. Sport sedans need to be practical, comfortable, safe and fun. The Macan is all that almost as good as the old Panamera. The higher driving position is a must for USA roads as they are now invaded with gigantic SUVs. For the price of a Panamera turbo you can get a new Macan turbo and a 3 year old 991 S convertible.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    We must have drove a different car angry The old Panamera S or turbo wasn't very impressive in handling and no fun factor. Ride was comfy and handling efficient but no direct feedback from the road, on par with Macan and not that far from a Cayenne.

    You clearly must be kidding?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Totally not joking and opinion shared by others here. The Panamera is one boring car, for the money they want, I'd rather save it for something else and buy a still boring but more practical and safer Macan. My manual 612 is in a whole other league in terms of fun and driving feel. I would not comment on the new Panamera, some people say it's better, it really should be.

    USA is different than Europe, I never drive faster than 75mph and traffic is usually pretty bad. Furthermore a Macan is already faster than 99% of the cars on the road. The prime customers of the Panamera is older women who want to show off that they can buy an overpriced car to show a Porsche badge, usually the same ones that would own a G wagon but they don't want a SUV. The Macan is driven by younger urban crowd or small count families who are smart with money.

    Driving impression are very personal, many here have different perspective. Personally, at the present time, I don't care about cars that can seat only two people and ultra high performance vehicles since I can't use them. Overall fun, ownership experience for some cars, and practicality plus safety for some others...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog: My manual 612 is in a whole other league in terms of fun and driving feel. I would not comment on the new Panamera, some people say it's better, it really should be.

    USA is different than Europe, I never drive faster than 75mph and traffic is usually pretty bad

    Tell me, how could you form an opinion about any car, if you drive it with up to 75mph? Not to talk about high end sports cars or performance saloons. 

     


     
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