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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    EnglishManInNY:

    Oh my this is a fun little thing. Like a little rabbit running around. Very fast and direct. 
     

    9A935191-8A4C-48FE-8AF9-3B4EB7B4C21B.jpeg
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    Done about 100miles in my new (wife’s now laugh) model 3P. Running around in daily traffic and evening in crappy weather like today this car is great. It’s got amazing traction. It’s got Michelin Pilot sport 4 tires as standard. Any other car would need to launch to even try keep up. I know indecision. The ride is very taut and the steering very direct. Probably a bit too direct. You have to get used to it. It darts and shoots forward or in any direction like a go-kart. The car feels as quick as my P100D without plus mode and the battery heated. It feels a step on from my P100D also in how it handles the cold weather better and seems to regen more consistently. The interior is fine. Love the display, seats, steering wheel and full glass roof. For the money it’s a bargain. Mine was $58k - only option not picked was full autopilot. If I had to pick between this or a BMW M2 for example it’s a no brainer. I know I nearly got a M2. I love driving this car for daily purposes - it’s one quick very efficient go-kart. I had done a number of 24hr go-kart races when younger so brings back good memories. Trying to convince the wife to get another one - blue exterior and white interior this time. 


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    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    How anyone can choose a Taycan over the 3P is beyond me. The cost delta is too great. As I have written before, vanity is the mother of fiscal irresponsibility.

    Which raises another question. What will be the depreciation on the Taycan S?


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    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    How anyone can choose a Taycan over the 3P is beyond me. The cost delta is too great. As I have written before, vanity is the mother of fiscal irresponsibility.

    Which raises another question. What will be the depreciation on the Taycan S?

    Who cares what someone else purchases?  Last time one checked, the United States and parts of the EU still participated in market economics where firms bring a variety of goods to market and where consumers purchase what best fits their needs.  The Tesla Model 3 has its market just as the Porsche Taycan has its market too.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    How anyone can choose a Taycan over the 3P is beyond me. The cost delta is too great. As I have written before, vanity is the mother of fiscal irresponsibility.

    For you Nick but don't speak for others. The cost delta is completely relative from both ends, how much the price difference amounts to your pockets, and how much you value what each one has to offer your as a the driver.

    You bought a GT3"RS" for use on California streets only, if we were to use your same reasoning that would be even worse vs a fun 911T for example or even a Cayman GT4.

    The Taycan is in a whole different class than a 3P, that until now was empty, simple.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    How anyone can choose a Taycan over the 3P is beyond me. The cost delta is too great. As I have written before, vanity is the mother of fiscal irresponsibility.

    Which raises another question. What will be the depreciation on the Taycan S?

     

    People do fight head over heels over a Hermes Birkin bag...............

    You don't see that behaviour on a Michael Kors bag.

    Same logic with the Taycan over the Model 3. 

    Distilled it down, both a Taycan and a Model 3 is just 4 door transportation device, same with the Hermes and Michael Kors, it's just a handbag for storing stuff. 

    It's the brand equity, material used, craftsmanship, etc, that makes the difference. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    How anyone can choose a Taycan over the 3P is beyond me. The cost delta is too great. As I have written before, vanity is the mother of fiscal irresponsibility.

    For you Nick but don't speak for others. The cost delta is completely relative from both ends, how much the price difference amounts to your pockets, and how much you value what each one has to offer your as a the driver.

    You bought a GT3"RS" for use on California streets only, if we were to use your same reasoning that would be even worse vs a fun 911T for example or even a Cayman GT4.

    The Taycan is in a whole different class than a 3P, that until now was empty, simple.

    For his type of driving a Toyota Prius or Honda Civic would suffice but that cost delta...There is a sizable population around the world that is relatively indifferent, income and net worth speaking, between the purchase of a Tesla Model 3 or Porsche Taycan.   For example a story from a few weeks ago illustrates the point. A ball player had his McLaren destroyed by a freak incident at the dealership when an errant truck tire smashed into it.  The owner of the McLaren 720 earns about $20 million annually.   The outlay for the McLaren is significantly less to him, percentage wise, than the average US family purchasing a $30,000 car.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For the enthusiast driving either of these cars the choice is far more difficult than you imagine. By enthusiast I mean someone who cares more about the driving experience and fun factor - price being equal and no badge involved. The T3 beats an M3 around a track by a large margin so from a driving perspective it measures up. 
     

    Anyone looking for value would have a simple choice. Anyone looking for bang for the buck has one choice. The Birkin bag choice is obvious.  There will always be ways to send more money however. That is easy to do. 
     

    We have others here with fast cars who have spoken well about the T3. Its worth giving a try if you have not. It’s hard to describe. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Any comments on Taycan depreciation or will the argument be those that buy one don't care?

    Carlos, the 911T or the Cayman 4 do not have the street presence of the RS. Its at a different level and worth the extra cost. The Taycan looks very pedestrian compare the the Panamera. As the Forbe writer wrote. She was in the Taycan for four hours and did not receive one look. I suspect the 3P would get more attention.indecision

    But as Nick stated, some would consider it a Birkin bag and be willing to pay for the exorbitant price for the Taycan.


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It’s reasonable to assume that all EV models will be depreciating assets, but clearly no data on Taycan at this stage.

    The manufacturer with the most data on EV depreciation is Tesla...

    Tesla UK 2019 depreciation update 2019

    Model S

    Overall, most modes ave depreciated approx £12k during the year, both cars at the cheaper end and higher ed of the spectrum. We revisit so of the models previously reviewed.

    • The 2015 MS 85 which a year ago was holding its value well is now down to an average £35k from £50k a year ago. This is a steep fall and we attribute it to cars falling out of the 4 year warranty period (the battery and drive train warranty remains), and the introduction of the Model 3. Free supercharging has also disappeared from cars resold by Tesla further detracting from the value. If we look at 2016 models the average advertised price is £43k for 85D cars. While this is a dual motor car, the £9k premium is hard to justify. It's likely that any 2016 car will suffer marked depreciation over 2020 due to the premium they currently command over the 2015 cars. 85 battery cars have also suffered from batterygate with a number of cars suffering from excessive battery degradation, this may also weigh on the valuations.
    • The 2016 MS P90D has fallen from £67k to £54k. Along with general deprecation of the MS, the P90D which was the poor mans performance car, only beaten by the much more expensive P100D, has now competition from the M3 Performance and the falling price of the P100D. We suspect at £54k the car value in facelift form, as they have zero VED and free supercharging offsetting the threat of the P100D slightly.The fall off of basic warranty during 2020 will mean the figures will drop.
    • The 2017 MS 100D has fallen from £82k to £70k over the year. We felt the depreciation over 2018 of only £5k was unusually low and as these represent advertised prices, the prices may be more reflective of the selling price. While a 2017 MS 100D is a great long range car, the payable VED will start to count against it as will the increasing number of autopilot features that are not supported on the HW2 version from 2017. These cars could become unloved very quickly with further sizeable falls in value.
    • 2017 P100D are few and far between, possibly because the depreciation over 2019 has been sky high making the losses to steep for many to take. A year ago they were averaging around £105k but today they are as low as £65k from Tesla with a fresh warranty. The depreciation is largely due to the price reduction that Tesla made earlier in the year, a lesser extent to general depreciation of the cars. The HW2 autopilot hardware and MCU1 found in these cars is resulting in many features not being available and at this price point, there is either better value to be had with a P90D or M3 Performance, or spend the extra for a new Raven car.

    Model X

    The model X values have now started to soften with the entry level being around £50k. 

    The long range/100D models starting at £62k are relatively good value at the moment but we'd suggest buying later cars if possible due to the general issues with the early cars. We'd also be reluctant to have a Model X out of warranty due to the complexity of the rear doors and while the cars in the UK are only coming up to 3 years old, any purchase now will run out of warranty within 12 months or so. We also suspect the AP hardware on early cars will also put some people off.

    Performance models which suffered in our 2018 analysis, suffered again due to the price cuts. With current starting prices of around £75k, they have held there price reasonably well since the price cuts. The Model Y performance when it arrives in the UK may hurt the prices however although with a likely price of £50k+ and 2 years before they arrive in the UK, the impact may not be that marked.

    Model 3

    We have had the Model 3 for 6 months in the UK now and a number are already being listed for sale. Our records indicate they are simply not selling, in part because of optomistic valuations by sellers, and most people preferring to buy from Tesla, especially now the waiting times are falling and new inventory is appearing. Basic SR+ can now be had for £37,500, but we have records of cars listed at £39k that haven't sold for 3 months. We suspect the used market, to sell, is probably £35k for a M3 SR+ representing a 10% immediate depreciation on new car purchases, but that is not unreasonable.

    Conclusion

    Depreciation is now very much a reality for Tesla despite the increasing interest in the cars. MS and MX are being increasingly bought on condition and mileage with benefits such as zero VED and unlimited supercharging playing a positive factor in private sales (which not all cars have).

    The Model 3 is making the cars more common, there are pressures on service centres making support more difficult than it once was, and a slow expansion of the supercharging network is leading to queues at times.

    2020 will see the zero BIK and a great surge of company car buyers which is likely to stretch the Tesla resources further and as long term propositions is likely to cause increased depreciation in 2-3 years time as these cars become available. Leasing offers some protection to this.

    We feel the good value is in facelift 2016 MS P90D with ludicrous, especially low mileage, HW2.5 P100D cars (2018 and later), MX 100D (2018 and later) and if you want an M3, leasing is likely to be a safer bet.

    Link: Tesla UK Depreciation


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Carlos, the 911T or the Cayman 4 do not have the street presence of the RS. Its at a different level and worth the extra cost. The Taycan looks very pedestrian compare the the Panamera. 

    Nick, but if you are valuing street presence as the argument then even more in my favor, the street presence of a Taycan vs a Model3 is huuuuge, the model 3's shape and looks could not be more un-sexy, mundane and character-less next to a Taycan.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    Carlos, the 911T or the Cayman 4 do not have the street presence of the RS. Its at a different level and worth the extra cost. The Taycan looks very pedestrian compare the the Panamera. 

    If you are valuing street presence then even more in my favor, the street presence of a Taycan vs a Model3 is huuuuge, the model 3's shape and looks could not be more un-sexy, mundane and character-less next to a Taycan.

    If he wants street presence he can stand on Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood wearing nothing more than a boa, a pair of speedos, fishnets, and high heels.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    Carlos, the 911T or the Cayman 4 do not have the street presence of the RS. Its at a different level and worth the extra cost. The Taycan looks very pedestrian compare the the Panamera. 

    Nick, but if you are valuing street presence as the argument then even more in my favor, the street presence of a Taycan vs a Model3 is huuuuge, the model 3's shape and looks could not be more un-sexy, mundane and character-less next to a Taycan.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Carlos, have you seen a Taycan in the flesh? Not so hot.Smiley The Tesla 3 costs about 75% less than the TAYCAN. Given the disparity in price, the Tesla 3 road presence is as good if not better.Smiley

    BTW, I haven't mentioned some of the comments of people in the dealership about the Taycan. Suffice to say it was meh. More more importantly the negative reaction to the price.Smiley

    That said, I'm sure Taycan will sell well. Porsche knows how to pick the pockets of the well healed customers.Smiley


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Negatives about the T3. Posted here to please everyone. Turning radius is giant, seemingly. For a car this size. This could be a bigger issue in Europe. Not certain if the rear drive cars turn better with no motor in front but I doubt it. 
    also - no place to plug in my valentine one. I have found only one 12V outlet - in the armrest. 
    When in track mode the car will to come to a complete stop with one pedal driving which I don’t like because there is more regen in track mode which is more like my late braking style. 
    Happy New Year!  Enjoy my complaints 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    Carlos, the 911T or the Cayman 4 do not have the street presence of the RS. Its at a different level and worth the extra cost. The Taycan looks very pedestrian compare the the Panamera. 

    Nick, but if you are valuing street presence as the argument then even more in my favor, the street presence of a Taycan vs a Model3 is huuuuge, the model 3's shape and looks could not be more un-sexy, mundane and character-less next to a Taycan.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Carlos, have you seen a Taycan in the flesh? Not so hot.Smiley The Tesla 3 costs about 75% less than the TAYCAN. Given the disparity in price, the Tesla 3 road presence is as good if not better.Smiley

    BTW, I haven't mentioned some of the comments of people in the dealership about the Taycan. Suffice to say it was meh. More more importantly the negative reaction to the price.Smiley

    That said, I'm sure Taycan will sell well. Porsche knows how to pick the pockets of the well healed customers.Smiley

    Sorry, a Tesla 3 looks like a small/lower budget car. This is nothing for buyers who want something special. Reading the above posts I really wonder who could really compare a Model 3 with a Taycan. Very different car. Of course the Model 3 is much cheaper. But you can also tell immediately when looking at it. It is like buying a Golf Smiley

    are 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Any comments on Taycan depreciation or will the argument be those that buy one don't care?

    Carlos, the 911T or the Cayman 4 do not have the street presence of the RS. Its at a different level and worth the extra cost. The Taycan looks very pedestrian compare the the Panamera. As the Forbe writer wrote. She was in the Taycan for four hours and did not receive one look. I suspect the 3P would get more attention.indecision

    But as Nick stated, some would consider it a Birkin bag and be willing to pay for the exorbitant price for the Taycan.

    Do you really want to know what my wife said when she first saw a Tesla Model 3? The word boring was the nicest one among many others. Smiley The Taycan can her attention immediately. I don't know where that Forbes writer drove around but if she claims that she didn't receive a single look in the Taycan while driving around for four hours, she probably drove around in the deep woods. Smiley Smiley The Model 3 looks like any other boring sedan, nothing special about it.

    Let me do a handbag comparison:

    Taycan

    lv.jpg

     

     

     

    Tesla Model 3

    coach.jpg


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I even feel the Model 3 is a good deal for the money (as is a VW Golf or BMW 3 series etc). Just to compare it tona Taycan is really a funny idea...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I do also think that comparing Tesla Model 3 with Taycan is stupid. 

    But if you take the pure numbers maybe you can compare it.

    For me, the Model 3 has his market and I see every day more and more Model 3 on the street.

    What I do not see is for which purpose I should buy a Taycan.

    For city driving?

    For long-distance?

    For racing?

    Familly car?

    I don't know it. 

    The only thing is for prestige.

     


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    In the UK, there is a tradition of watching the Royal Institution Christmas Science Lectures — which were initiated by Michael Faraday in 1825.

    For example, there is a series of Royal Institution lectures from 1983 on machines in motion...

    AE68EDF6-5A7D-4E13-934D-53C2164B20B2.jpeg

    Link: https://www.rigb.org/christmas-lectures/watch/1983/machines-in-motion/driving-forces

    There is an exclusive special limited edition lecture on electric vehicles for interested Rennteam members only...

    “The Tesla Model S Performance has a claimed 0-60 of 2.4 seconds, and a top speed of 163 mph. The Porsche Taycan Turbo S has a claimed 0-60 of 2.6 seconds, and a top speed of 161 mph. Well that settles it, the Tesla is faster, right? Not so fast. When you start to look at the two vehicles drivetrains, you'll find the Porsche might actually have an advantage as a result of the transmission. The Taycan has two gears for the rear axle, and a single gear for the front axle. The rear gear ratios are 15.563 for first, and 8.05 for second. The front axle also has a gear ratio of 8.05:1. To see which vehicle is faster, we'll need to see which can put down the greatest wheel torque, as well as which has the most grip...”

    Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uum9nffLasQ

    ...Happy New Year! Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    In the UK, there is a tradition of watching the Royal Institution Christmas Science Lectures — which were initiated by Michael Faraday in 1825.

    For example, there is a series of Royal Institution lectures from 1983 on machines in motion...

    AE68EDF6-5A7D-4E13-934D-53C2164B20B2.jpeg

    Link: https://www.rigb.org/christmas-lectures/watch/1983/machines-in-motion/driving-forces

    There is an exclusive special limited edition lecture on electric vehicles for interested Rennteam members only...

    “The Tesla Model S Performance has a claimed 0-60 of 2.4 seconds, and a top speed of 163 mph. The Porsche Taycan Turbo S has a claimed 0-60 of 2.6 seconds, and a top speed of 161 mph. Well that settles it, the Tesla is faster, right? Not so fast. When you start to look at the two vehicles drivetrains, you'll find the Porsche might actually have an advantage as a result of the transmission. The Taycan has two gears for the rear axle, and a single gear for the front axle. The rear gear ratios are 15.563 for first, and 8.05 for second. The front axle also has a gear ratio of 8.05:1. To see which vehicle is faster, we'll need to see which can put down the greatest wheel torque, as well as which has the most grip...”

    Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uum9nffLasQ

    ...Happy New Year! Smiley

    By all means. That extra gear makes all the difference. They are really reaching while comparing to 9 year old tech. Imagine it is hard to keep ignoring efficiency but hold on to your hat when the three motor S refresh comes out. The Taycan is an awesome car but it looks nothing like the prototype. There will always be Porsche buyers willing to pay anything to have an expensive looking ride. This is starting to look like the only advantage and if that is the case it gets old to look at it quickly. The Porsche SUV and Panamera got past their looks thanks to performance. Same with cars like the Veyron. Even the model 3 gets a pass (though it looks better in person and even better once you drive it).  I will be curious to see how VW does delivering these cars ,i3 included.  And how they impact infrastructure in Europe for electric cars. All good news. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:

    I even feel the Model 3 is a good deal for the money (as is a VW Golf or BMW 3 series etc). Just to compare it tona Taycan is really a funny idea...

    The Model 3 could revolutionize the German EV market if Tesla would offer an interesting lease model but so far, the lease cost is too high, other manufacturers are more interesting.

    I am seriously considering getting an EV for my business but in the end, I'm not sure.

    I just fell in love (again) with the GLC 63S AMG and it is hard for me to imagine getting an EV. It just isn't "my thing", can't help it. Drove a Tesla X P100D in Orlando for a day (I was curious) and while I found it (again) to be a very interesting experience, especially since I never realized how big the trunk of this thing is (seriously), EVs are just not my thing, especially not Tesla. I could imagine myself driving around in an Audi etron or even Taycan but... Smiley Funny enough, I even like the idea of the Cybertruck but for now, I am still longing for combustion engines, can't help it. 

    My son is right: Why get an EV if combustion engines, especially the fun ones (V8, V10, V12, etc.) are going to die? People better enjoy what is left in the V8/V10/V12 combustion engine world, EVs will be forced upon us soon enough, no need to rush this. Smiley I am actually inclined to get my son a Dodge Challenger but I still haven't figured out what to do about the valet mode (I cannot let my son drive a 400+ hp car as a beginner but the power limiting valet mode is not powerful enough, not even for a beginner, too dangerous in my opinion).

    Fact is: As much as I love gadgets, I do not see any need (for now) to get an EV of any kind. I can imagine jumping in if there is a good lease deal but so far, nothing really interesting out there over here.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Yes. Drive the fun V8s while we have the.  You have a brilliant son. Best reason remaining!  I drove the S in Vegas for five days. It is nothing like the 3. Much different ride better size and also tons of trunk space. You can also set a speed limit and remove some of the power and acceleration for your son.  But the roar of a V8 is awesome for now. 
    Here you can not buy the car when the lease is up. Is it the same there?  Tesla has plans to turn them into robot taxis. Lease deals here reflect that there is no competition. Let’s face it the good deals are on cars that don’t sell. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    ALDO:

    I do also think that comparing Tesla Model 3 with Taycan is stupid. 

    But if you take the pure numbers maybe you can compare it.

    For me, the Model 3 has his market and I see every day more and more Model 3 on the street.

    What I do not see is for which purpose I should buy a Taycan.

    For city driving?

    For long-distance?

    For racing?

    Familly car?

    I don't know it. 

    The only thing is for prestige.

     

    Still need to drive the Taycan - but for me the only reason could be driving pleasure Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    driving pleasure? with 2.500 kg? without sound? - could be - but for that we need some more years to pass


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    December 29th was another day that illustrates the perverse approach Tesla has taken with autonomy that lolls drivers into putting too much confidence into an incomplete system.  

    The first incident of a Tesla running a red light and killing the two occupants of a Honda Civic in Gardenia, California is now part of the NHSTA investigation into Tesla's Autopilot: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/12/31/business/31reuters-tesla-crash.html?searchResultPosition=8 

    The second incident near Cloverdale, Indiana had another Tesla striking an emergency vehicle blocking a lane on an Interstate as part of a cleanup of another incident.  In this incident, the passenger of the Tesla was killed and while the Tesla driver admitted to heavily using Autopilot he can't recall if it was engaged at the time of the collusion.  Note that in this incident, the emergency vehicle was yellow and not the typical red coloration of emergency vehicles in the States.  Other colors for emergency vehicles are orange and green.  https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2019/12/30/telsa-rear-ends-fire-truck-indiana-killing-arizona-woman/40911551/ 

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Perverse?  Really?  Does it matter how many lives the system saves?  You don’t hear about those but some people misusing the system are somehow Tesla’s fault. Interesting.  Let’s just ignore all safety advances because accidents still happen. 
    Do you propose we force Tesla to stop offering these features?  Lol. 
    How about we wait until all consumers read and understand all warnings 100% of the time. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    Perverse?  Really?  Does it matter how many lives the system saves?  You don’t hear about those but some people misusing the system are somehow Tesla’s fault. Interesting.  Let’s just ignore all safety advances because accidents still happen. 
    Do you propose we force Tesla to stop offering these features?  Lol. 
    How about we wait until all consumers read and understand all warnings 100% of the time. 

     

    That's the typical American mentality, it's never my fault. It is the reason why there are 1000 warning screens in the car nowadays, the car makers covering their ass first from stupid liability lawsuits.

    The driving mentality in the American culture needs to change. Stop relying on the car's 'features' so much and start improving their basic driving skills first. 

    There are Teslas all over the world driving now, a lot with the advanced cruise control function also, but you don't hear about Autopilot related accidents elsewhere, cause drivers elsewhere KNOWS not to trust a system like that completely.  Heck, not even the Chinese and they aren't the best drivers in the world either.

    Until Tesla drivers keep both hands on the wheel, eyes looking forward and feet at the ready on the brake pedals, we will still be hearing boat Autopilot related accidents frequently.

    Autopilot is NOT a 'safety feature', it's just another 'feature' on a automobile. Literally it is just cruise control function with more awareness. ABS brakes is a safety feature, it helps the car do threshold braking. HID lights is a safety feature, it brighten up the road ahead more at night. Side airbags are a safety feature, it cushion the side impacts. Autopilot isn't close to doing those things. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Read the evo review of the last generation m3p.

    B81E9958-D6CB-4043-8703-4A5E68BF26C9.png
    CC7B2A7B-FB2B-47DA-9A14-11E8DD7DBDE6.png


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    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    ALDO:

    driving pleasure? with 2.500 kg? without sound? - could be - but for that we need some more years to pass

    Judging from my (unfortunately very short) experience in the Taycan, I think that the real driving pleasure of the Taycan is simply the feel of a technological masterpiece in a very luxurious atmosphere...if you are into gadgets.

    The Taycan is basically a more fascinating Panamera without the sound. It is difficult to explain.

    For a daily commute, a Tesla S or model 3 would be definitely sufficient.

    I assume the Taycan also sends a message "look here, I can afford to be different".

    As much as I love gadgets and technology, I think my son is right: Why get this stuff now if we all are going to drive this crap in a decade anyway? Smiley Once the new tech vibe fades, EVs will differentiate themselves through certain features and to be honest, I don't know what kind of features these will be. 

    For now, I stick to combustion engines, as long as they are around and provide fun.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Perverse?  Really?  Does it matter how many lives the system saves?  You don’t hear about those but some people misusing the system are somehow Tesla’s fault. Interesting.  Let’s just ignore all safety advances because accidents still happen. 
    Do you propose we force Tesla to stop offering these features?  Lol. 
    How about we wait until all consumers read and understand all warnings 100% of the time. 

     

    That's the typical American mentality, it's never my fault. It is the reason why there are 1000 warning screens in the car nowadays, the car makers covering their ass first from stupid liability lawsuits.

    The driving mentality in the American culture needs to change. Stop relying on the car's 'features' so much and start improving their basic driving skills first. 

    There are Teslas all over the world driving now, a lot with the advanced cruise control function also, but you don't hear about Autopilot related accidents elsewhere, cause drivers elsewhere KNOWS not to trust a system like that completely.  Heck, not even the Chinese and they aren't the best drivers in the world either.

    Until Tesla drivers keep both hands on the wheel, eyes looking forward and feet at the ready on the brake pedals, we will still be hearing boat Autopilot related accidents frequently.

    Autopilot is NOT a 'safety feature', it's just another 'feature' on a automobile. Literally it is just cruise control function with more awareness. ABS brakes is a safety feature, it helps the car do threshold braking. HID lights is a safety feature, it brighten up the road ahead more at night. Side airbags are a safety feature, it cushion the side impacts. Autopilot isn't close to doing those things. 

     

     

    Can you not resist making this an American driver dig?  I am not American born but such generalizations are just silly. 
    i respectfully disagree that these are not safety features. Even when autopilot is not being used all of the same sensors and tech are watching out. If you don’t brake there is emergency braking. There are also collision avoidance warnings. We have all seen the Tesla stoped at an intersection and not moving when the light turned green because it sensed cross traffic. If someone comes into your lane the car will move over. The other night while the car was parked and unattended it honked and flashed its lights at a BMW backing up towards it. Even the side mirrors fold in on their own to if they are out and you walk by too close.  all that tech is integrated into many functions other than just autopilot. No one does it as well. 
    That said I will note that a couple of times my adaptive cruise control has slowed down for no reason. Not the worst thing but unexpected. It does seem that the tech will change our driving habits and perhaps not for the better. 
    I do enjoy the one button driving though and to hustle the T3 with its explosive power off the line is far more of a challenge than my old turbo. It is a beast. Glad cops don’t drive these. 
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Perverse?  Really?  Does it matter how many lives the system saves?  You don’t hear about those but some people misusing the system are somehow Tesla’s fault. Interesting.  Let’s just ignore all safety advances because accidents still happen. 
    Do you propose we force Tesla to stop offering these features?  Lol. 
    How about we wait until all consumers read and understand all warnings 100% of the time. 

     

    That's the typical American mentality, it's never my fault. It is the reason why there are 1000 warning screens in the car nowadays, the car makers covering their ass first from stupid liability lawsuits.

    The driving mentality in the American culture needs to change. Stop relying on the car's 'features' so much and start improving their basic driving skills first. 

    There are Teslas all over the world driving now, a lot with the advanced cruise control function also, but you don't hear about Autopilot related accidents elsewhere, cause drivers elsewhere KNOWS not to trust a system like that completely.  Heck, not even the Chinese and they aren't the best drivers in the world either.

    Until Tesla drivers keep both hands on the wheel, eyes looking forward and feet at the ready on the brake pedals, we will still be hearing boat Autopilot related accidents frequently.

    Autopilot is NOT a 'safety feature', it's just another 'feature' on a automobile. Literally it is just cruise control function with more awareness. ABS brakes is a safety feature, it helps the car do threshold braking. HID lights is a safety feature, it brighten up the road ahead more at night. Side airbags are a safety feature, it cushion the side impacts. Autopilot isn't close to doing those things. 

     

     

    Can you not resist making this an American driver dig?  I am not American born but such generalizations are just silly. 
    i respectfully disagree that these are not safety features. Even when autopilot is not being used all of the same sensors and tech are watching out. If you don’t brake there is emergency braking. There are also collision avoidance warnings. We have all seen the Tesla stoped at an intersection and not moving when the light turned green because it sensed cross traffic. If someone comes into your lane the car will move over. The other night while the car was parked and unattended it honked and flashed its lights at a BMW backing up towards it. Even the side mirrors fold in on their own to if they are out and you walk by too close.  all that tech is integrated into many functions other than just autopilot. No one does it as well. 
    That said I will note that a couple of times my adaptive cruise control has slowed down for no reason. Not the worst thing but unexpected. It does seem that the tech will change our driving habits and perhaps not for the better. 
    I do enjoy the one button driving though and to hustle the T3 with its explosive power off the line is far more of a challenge than my old turbo. It is a beast. Glad cops don’t drive these. 
     

     

    Some of the stuff you mentioned isn't even Autopilot stuff.

    The intersection thing is not even new, my e-Tron and Golf has this, they cut throttle and brake abruptly if the parking sensors sense there is obstacle suddenly appeared in the front. The automatic cruise control will slso slow down to a dead stop if engaged and flooding another car. In reversing out ofparkign spot they both do the sudden brake thing if the sensor detects objects suddenly appeared. 

    Another thing is the lane keep assist, the Golf has it and so has the Audi, I purposely not select a package from Porsche but added back everything else for a great price to NOT have it on the Panamera. I turned them off in the Audi and VW also. If active, they won't let you change lanes, the moment you try it will induce a torque steer sensation to keep the car in lane, I have to be forceful with the steering wheel in order to change lane. 

    All also have lane change warning, they warn you if some thing is present in the next lane over that might be dangerous. 

    Stuff I just mentioned are all SAFETY features, that most modern cars have, they are not a autopilot thing. What autopilot adds to these are 'smart' cruise control that it can follow white lines on the highway and do turns by itself and stuff, etc. Those are NOT safety features, those are just features. Convenience features.


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