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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    It would be quite embarrassing for Ferrari if the 488 would rev to 7500 rpm only in real life. I looked up a couple of YouTube videos and haven't seen any revving to 8000, true but I still would want to experience this first hand in real life before I make my own judgement about the 488.

    Maybe this video is an indication of what to expect (Huracan is as fast as the 991.2 Turbo S, give or take...):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXnou4veRYU

    I think there isn't much difference up to 230 kph or so but over that, the 488 gets slightly faster.

    All these monster engine cars are faster over 230-260 kph, look at the Aventador (pretty much the same acceleration of the Huracan up to slightly over 200 kph). 650 S looses up to 150 kph or so but after 160 kph, it gains fast and is much faster over 200 kph. McLaren seems to grant their cars some sort of extra boost in the higher speed range. My guess is: They want to spare the drivetrain from too much stress when starting from stand still, so they limit the torque.

    To be honest: If I would love to have the perfect weekend toy, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Hyper car performance and a cabriolet...what do you want more?! Smiley Unfortunately a bit out of my price range. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    It would be quite embarrassing for Ferrari if the 488 would rev to 7500 rpm only in real life. I looked up a couple of YouTube videos and haven't seen any revving to 8000, true but I still would want to experience this first hand in real life before I make my own judgement about the 488.

    Maybe this video is an indication of what to expect (Huracan is as fast as the 991.2 Turbo S, give or take...):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXnou4veRYU

    I think there isn't much difference up to 230 kph or so but over that, the 488 gets slightly faster.

    All these monster engine cars are faster over 230-260 kph, look at the Aventador (pretty much the same acceleration of the Huracan up to slightly over 200 kph). 650 S looses up to 150 kph or so but after 160 kph, it gains fast and is much faster over 200 kph. McLaren seems to grant their cars some sort of extra boost in the higher speed range. My guess is: They want to spare the drivetrain from too much stress when starting from stand still, so they limit the torque.

    To be honest: If I would love to have the perfect weekend toy, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Hyper car performance and a cabriolet...what do you want more?! Smiley Unfortunately a bit out of my price range. 

    If the drivetrains were the limitation they could be strengthened. 
    Tyres can only provide so much traction, so the torque to the wheels is limited by traction control.  


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    fritz:
    RC:

    It would be quite embarrassing for Ferrari if the 488 would rev to 7500 rpm only in real life. I looked up a couple of YouTube videos and haven't seen any revving to 8000, true but I still would want to experience this first hand in real life before I make my own judgement about the 488.

    Maybe this video is an indication of what to expect (Huracan is as fast as the 991.2 Turbo S, give or take...):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXnou4veRYU

    I think there isn't much difference up to 230 kph or so but over that, the 488 gets slightly faster.

    All these monster engine cars are faster over 230-260 kph, look at the Aventador (pretty much the same acceleration of the Huracan up to slightly over 200 kph). 650 S looses up to 150 kph or so but after 160 kph, it gains fast and is much faster over 200 kph. McLaren seems to grant their cars some sort of extra boost in the higher speed range. My guess is: They want to spare the drivetrain from too much stress when starting from stand still, so they limit the torque.

    To be honest: If I would love to have the perfect weekend toy, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Hyper car performance and a cabriolet...what do you want more?! Smiley Unfortunately a bit out of my price range. 

    If the drivetrains were the limitation they could be strengthened. 
    Tyres can only provide so much traction, so the torque to the wheels is limited by traction control.  

    True but maybe a cost factor, especially since they are all basically using the same engine at McLaren. Smiley

    Traction control is actually excellent on McLaren cars, so I'm not sure this is the limitation here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    fritz:
    RC:

    It would be quite embarrassing for Ferrari if the 488 would rev to 7500 rpm only in real life. I looked up a couple of YouTube videos and haven't seen any revving to 8000, true but I still would want to experience this first hand in real life before I make my own judgement about the 488.

    Maybe this video is an indication of what to expect (Huracan is as fast as the 991.2 Turbo S, give or take...):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXnou4veRYU

    I think there isn't much difference up to 230 kph or so but over that, the 488 gets slightly faster.

    All these monster engine cars are faster over 230-260 kph, look at the Aventador (pretty much the same acceleration of the Huracan up to slightly over 200 kph). 650 S looses up to 150 kph or so but after 160 kph, it gains fast and is much faster over 200 kph. McLaren seems to grant their cars some sort of extra boost in the higher speed range. My guess is: They want to spare the drivetrain from too much stress when starting from stand still, so they limit the torque.

    To be honest: If I would love to have the perfect weekend toy, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Hyper car performance and a cabriolet...what do you want more?! Smiley Unfortunately a bit out of my price range. 

    If the drivetrains were the limitation they could be strengthened. 
    Tyres can only provide so much traction, so the torque to the wheels is limited by traction control.  

    True but maybe a cost factor, especially since they are all basically using the same engine at McLaren. Smiley

    Traction control is actually excellent on McLaren cars, so I'm not sure this is the limitation here.

    Perhaps I phrased that ambiguously; I meant that traction control has to limit the torque to what the tyres can usefully cope with, not that the TC system somehow has limited ability. This applies to all cars, not specifically to the McLaren.  


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    fritz:
    RC:
    fritz:
    RC:

    It would be quite embarrassing for Ferrari if the 488 would rev to 7500 rpm only in real life. I looked up a couple of YouTube videos and haven't seen any revving to 8000, true but I still would want to experience this first hand in real life before I make my own judgement about the 488.

    Maybe this video is an indication of what to expect (Huracan is as fast as the 991.2 Turbo S, give or take...):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXnou4veRYU

    I think there isn't much difference up to 230 kph or so but over that, the 488 gets slightly faster.

    All these monster engine cars are faster over 230-260 kph, look at the Aventador (pretty much the same acceleration of the Huracan up to slightly over 200 kph). 650 S looses up to 150 kph or so but after 160 kph, it gains fast and is much faster over 200 kph. McLaren seems to grant their cars some sort of extra boost in the higher speed range. My guess is: They want to spare the drivetrain from too much stress when starting from stand still, so they limit the torque.

    To be honest: If I would love to have the perfect weekend toy, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Hyper car performance and a cabriolet...what do you want more?! Smiley Unfortunately a bit out of my price range. 

    If the drivetrains were the limitation they could be strengthened. 
    Tyres can only provide so much traction, so the torque to the wheels is limited by traction control.  

    True but maybe a cost factor, especially since they are all basically using the same engine at McLaren. Smiley

    Traction control is actually excellent on McLaren cars, so I'm not sure this is the limitation here.

    Perhaps I phrased that ambiguously; I meant that traction control has to limit the torque to what the tyres can usefully cope with, not that the TC system somehow has limited ability. This applies to all cars, not specifically to the McLaren.  

    Now that makes sense indeed, maybe also the reason why McLaren cars have such a good traction because the traction control has been very well adapted/programmed. Smiley Makes sense.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Beast kiss

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_xlmSGxnD0

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Topspeed:

    Beast kiss

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_xlmSGxnD0

     

     

    He did not even close the top for this comparison Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    No surprise here, the Aventador sucks from standstill and from 0 to aprox. 200 kph, the performance is basically the same as the Huracan performance (saw various drag races).

    Over 240 kph however, the Aventador drives away, no chance for the 991.2 Turbo S or the Huracan.

    Actually, from 0-180 kph, not even the 650S, the F12 or the 488 (there is a nice drag race with a Huracan available on YouTube) can really outrun the 991.2 Turbo S in real life, I've seen many different videos of drag races.

    I just wish Porsche would have given the facelifted Turbo S a bit more boost in the upper speed range.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFKMPTIa3OI

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    I just wish Porsche would have given the facelifted Turbo S a bit more boost in the upper speed range.

    I suspect the turbo S is near the thermal limits for its maximum rated power curve over ~250kph, VTGs getting too hot, must be on the limit of pulling power back.  I'd like to see some high speed acceleration numbers taken in 30C ambient, this would illustrate how close to thermal limits the engine set up is. 

    Further explanation

    If the car is set up so that in 20C the IAT at the end of a 300kph acceleration is ~55C then the power is rated here at 580PS. Do the same acceleration run in 30C ambient and the IAT would be over 70C but the program will play with the boost/fuelling and timing to control the IAT not letting it go much past the 55C which results in less hp (than rated)


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Good stats by the TTS

    image.png


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The R8 test numbers don't add up with other reviews, especially at speeds over 60 mph.

    My suspicion:

    1. Cars weren't tested back to back by the same person

    2. Testers were using the wrong fuel quality (93 octane is minmum for the R8, same as 570S and Turbo S) because the specs claim 91 octane

    Also this is the first review someone didn't like the steering or the handling, which is really weird. The steering is amazing,,with short ways and very direct. Handling is almost go-kart like. So... yes


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    ABSportscars: Audi R8 V10 Plus vs McLaren 570S vs Porsche 991.2 Turbo S

    Sachsenring:

    1:33.46 / 1:33.12 / 1:32.71

    Acceleration:

    0-100: 2,9 / 2,9 / 2,8
    0-130: 4,3 / 4,1 / 4,2
    0-160: 6,0 / 5,7 / 6,0
    0-200: 9,3 / 8,5 / 9,3
    0-250: 15,7 / 13,8 / 15,7
    0-300: 28,9 / 24,7 / 29,6

    0-402m: 10,64 / 10,46 / 10,56

    Braking:

    100-0 (C): 34,6 m / 33,7 m / 32,6 m
    100-0 (W): 31,7 m / 32,2 m / 31,4 m
    200-0 (W): 120,7 m / 128,4 m / 121,5 m

    Weight: 1,644 kg / 1,440 kg / 1,604 kg

    Tires: MPS Cup 2 (A0) / P Zero Corsa / P Zero (N1)

    Price (Euro): 194,700 / 181,750 / 202,872


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Performance numbers for the 570S are quite impressive I have to say, the car seems to be faster than the 650S...which is weird but also spectacular if customers can expect the same performance.

    Also, the new Pirelli PZero N1 tires for the 991.2 Turbo S are impressive as well, the new PZero generation has improved dry performance substantially. Will get these tires for my R8 end of July, can't wait to test them.

    Overall, it is pretty disappointing that Audi and Porsche cannot reduce the weight of their cars to under 1500 kg. yes


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Performance numbers for the 570S are quite impressive I have to say, the car seems to be faster than the 650S...which is weird but also spectacular if customers can expect the same performance.

    Also, the new Pirelli PZero N1 tires for the 991.2 Turbo S are impressive as well, the new PZero generation has improved dry performance substantially. Will get these tires for my R8 end of July, can't wait to test them.

    Overall, it is pretty disappointing that Audi and Porsche cannot reduce the weight of their cars to under 1500 kg. yes


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    the 991.2 turbo S is jut simply a disappointment, imagine the top of the range 991 being pited against the baby Mclaren Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The "baby" MaLaren has no AWD and no backseats, so I think there is no real comparison but I think that if Porsche (and Audi for that matter) are asking tons of money for their cars, their cars should be highly competitive, even straight line.

    On the other hand, if you look at the track performance of the 991.2 Turbo S with street tires, I think that the time is quite impressive, considering the fact that the McLaren is over 160 kg lighter than the Turbo S and runs on semi-slicks. I see the disappointment somewhere else. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Love the "baby" Mac kiss


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Italo:

     

    the 991.2 turbo S is jut simply a disappointment, imagine the top of the range 991 being pited against the baby Mclaren Smiley

    You seem to have misread the test... Even though the 570 was obviously pimped for this test (it has better acceleration than the 650s despite having 75hp less) and even though the 570 was on UHP tires it got killed by the turbo s on street tires... Also, the brake performance of the 570 is rather poor despite UHP tires... If you now consider what you will get as a regular customer (i.e. a 570 with far less good acceleration) you can draw your own conclusions Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Interesting numbers. So  the 911 shows far better numbers compared with the Audi due to the fact that the Audi is equipped with semis. 


    --

    Kind regards, Conny 



    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW Grand Coupe 650i xDrive


     

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    BTW, regarding acceleration times at higher speeds - something occurred to me: is the turbo s performance better if you press the SportPlus button? This button improves the performance for 20s. I.e. you will normally use it when doing a quick run on the Autobahn (like I did for my test, for example). But if you really do a 0-300 kph test (i.e. from standstill) you need more than these 20s... Maybe this has an impact of 1-2s up to 300kph (from standstill)?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    MKSGR:

    BTW, regarding acceleration times at higher speeds - something occurred to me: is the turbo s performance better if you press the SportPlus button? This button improves the performance for 20s. I.e. you will normally use it when doing a quick run on the Autobahn (like I did for my test, for example). But if you really do a 0-300 kph test (i.e. from standstill) you need more than these 20s... Maybe this has an impact of 1-2s up to 300kph (from standstill)?

    I'm not quite sure but I think the overboost works the same in Sport and Sport Plus mode.

    They always test the cars in the sportiest mode available (R8 in Performance mode DRY, Turbo S in Sport Plus, etc.), so... Smiley

    Actually, I think that in the R8, the Performance mode DRY is counter-productive since it switches the AWD setup from neutral to more RWD oriented but I didn't have the chance to test this, not possible on public roads. Smiley I would rather switch the car into Dynamic mode and switch off the ESP for track testing. Dynamic mode keeps the AWD setup neutral.

    The 570S is very fast though...maybe a bit too fast. Smiley However, it doesn't change anything regarding the weight, the Turbo S and the R8 are just too heavy. If you compare the R8 and the Huracan for example, it is pretty easy to lower the weight on the R8 but it would probably reduce Audi's gain margin for this car. Smiley Or it would lift it to Huracan price regions.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The McLaren is running around 650PS for that sort of acceleration up to 300kph. What is interesting is that the McLaren has that thermal reserve in its engine, the Porsche (if ECU tuned) could probably manage 650PS up to 250kph but those last ~10s of mega load are very punishing and sorts the men out from the boys.....


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    I had always mused about the reserve in these Macca motors, check out the tuning available for the 650S below. This company Tuning Box are the original Tuning Box people from Belgium and have been doing this for nearly 30 years, I have used their products (on diesel engines) many times and they work extremely well.

    This latest version can increase boost as well...... Anyway I think this illustrates well that the Maccas have a lot of untapped potential angel

     


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The question is if one is willing to test how long the tuned engine/drivetrain will survive... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    MKSGR:

    The question is if one is willing to test how long the tuned engine/drivetrain will survive... 

    Another problem would be warranty...such mods are always detectable by the manufacturers. Not sure what a new McLaren engine or gearbox costs but I can imagine they are no bargain. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:

    The McLaren is running around 650PS for that sort of acceleration up to 300kph. What is interesting is that the McLaren has that thermal reserve in its engine, the Porsche (if ECU tuned) could probably manage 650PS up to 250kph but those last ~10s of mega load are very punishing and sorts the men out from the boys.....

    I was thinking the same... Smiley Smiley Nothing to complain if customers get this power as well.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    TB993tt:

    The McLaren is running around 650PS for that sort of acceleration up to 300kph. What is interesting is that the McLaren has that thermal reserve in its engine, the Porsche (if ECU tuned) could probably manage 650PS up to 250kph but those last ~10s of mega load are very punishing and sorts the men out from the boys.....

    I was thinking the same... Smiley Smiley Nothing to complain if customers get this power as well.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    You think they use the exact same engine as in the 650s but just change the model designation and declare wrong specs to the authorities Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The engine is actually always the same as far as I understood...with minor differences like turbo chargers, ECU software and such. I may be wrong though, I never took the time to get too much involved with technical details of McLaren cars.

    Wrong specs? Well, depends. It is easy to let a turbo engine run at higher power and then, when a dyno run occurs, the ECU software actually detects it and... angry Does this sound familiar? 

    If all customer cars are that powerful, I have no problem with that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    The engine is actually always the same as far as I understood...with minor differences like turbo chargers, ECU software and such. I may be wrong though, I never took the time to get too much involved with technical details of McLaren cars.

    Wrong specs? Well, depends. It is easy to let a turbo engine run at higher power and then, when a dyno run occurs, the ECU software actually detects it and... angry Does this sound familiar? 

    If all customer cars are that powerful, I have no problem with that.

    Christian this is all a great lie. Sportauto tested a 675LT with the exact same 0-300 time as the above 570s (24.6s). The 650s was slower in the Sportauto test (26s). Don't believe their BS... McLaren is trying to find fools to buy the entry level car.  Remember the AMG press strategy etc.? Same here Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Markus, I have no proof, neither do you. You could be right but maybe the 570S is just a very fast car and yes, maybe it has 650 hp out of the factory and McLaren markets this car as their baby McLaren for marketing (and pricing) reasons.

    As long as customers get this kind of power and performance, I have no problem with that. If customers get less power and performance, then I agree with you...not cool.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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