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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    MKW:

    you may be causing confusion for some readers...i think you mean " normally aspirated " , i.e.,  without forced induction like a turbocharger ir supercharger .

    a " non- aspirated " motor  would be ...an electric one  ! 

    Pfff, a minor detail Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    MKW:

    you may be causing confusion for some readers...i think you mean " normally aspirated " , i.e.,  without forced induction like a turbocharger ir supercharger .

    a " non- aspirated " motor  would be ...an electric one  ! 

    Pfff, a minor detail Smiley

    VERY minor !

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    OK. I meant w/o forced induction. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    so what is the most likely scenario  for 991.2 base and S ?

    1) base C2/C4 with current  NA 3.4L boxer 6  and choice of manual or PDK; C2S/C4S with light turbo 3.4 L boxer 6 , PDK only 

    2) base C2/C4 turbo 2.something L boxer 4 with manual or PDK  ; C2S/C4s with light turbo 3.4L  boxer 6 , PDK only 

    3) # 1 or # 2 for base, but C2S/C4S retains current 3.8 NA but manual option goes away for emissions reasons 

    4) ??

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I'd love to see version 1) materialize, but it's unlikely as we will see a flat 4 according to User KresoF1 and version 1) does not have a flat 4, so ...

    So, my best guess would be version 2), but slight alternation for C2S and C4S: I think those (S models) will come with a NA flat 6, as KresoF1 mentioned that there will (still) be a NA engine around and if NA, it's gonna be a flat 6.

    edit: So my best guess above would fall into palce with your "version 3) / #2", which you seem to have added after my post or while I was typing.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    987er:

    I'd love to see version 1) materialize, but it's unlikely as we will see a flat 4 according to User KresoF1 and version 1) does not have a flat 4, so ...

    So, my best guess would be version 2), but slight alternation for C2S and C4S: I think those (S models) will come with a NA flat 6, as KresoF1 mentioned that there will (still) be a NA engine around and if NA, it's gonna be a flat 6.

    so more like something along my version 3? 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Yes, see my edit.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Bottom line:
    If one would still like to get their hands on the "small" flat 6, which I think is a fantastic engine, it's gonna be now or never. Soon enough it'll be gone ...

    Throw in manual and you will have and own one of the last old school Porsche in a few years down the road...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    987er:

    Bottom line:
    If one would still like to get their hands on the "small" flat 6, which I think is a fantastic engine, it's gonna be now or never. Soon enough it'll be gone ...

    Throw in manual and you will have and own one of the last old school Porsche in a few years down the road...

    Happy I made my move for N/A engine then Smiley Would never consider the 7 speed manual as old school - have always been a fan of manual and truly enjoyed my 997.1 C2 6M, but after a testdrive with the 7 speed manual I went for PDK.

    The rumors on Rennteam about the turbo charged entry models being on their way influenced my timing on buying one and it seems to pay off, so thank you guys!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    (completely speculative post)

    what about the following line-up for the 911:

    C2/4: flat six turbo/no more manual
    C2/4S: flat six turbo/no more manual
    GTS: current N/A boxer engine with WLS so +- 430hp/ manual option still available
    GT3/Turbo/... get minor updates, but generally the same engines

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Porsche_lover:
    987er:

    Bottom line:
    If one would still like to get their hands on the "small" flat 6, which I think is a fantastic engine, it's gonna be now or never. Soon enough it'll be gone ...

    Throw in manual and you will have and own one of the last old school Porsche in a few years down the road...

    Happy I made my move for N/A engine then Smiley Would never consider the 7 speed manual as old school - have always been a fan of manual and truly enjoyed my 997.1 C2 6M, but after a testdrive with the 7 speed manual I went for PDK.

    The rumors on Rennteam about the turbo charged entry models being on their way influenced my timing on buying one and it seems to pay off, so thank you guys!

    I am also very happy with my new 991 C4S with 7 spd manual SmileySmiley


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, 2015 Porsche MACAN S (May 2014 Delivery) New York


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    ***** Porsche’s Plan: More Horsepower, More Hybrids *****

    (7 May 2014)

    "Hot on the heels of the news that Porsche is working on a  “coupe” version of Cayenne, comes a metric ton more news from Zuffenhausen. Really, I’m hardly sure where to start. Perhaps at the top?

    Discounting the likes of the near-million-dollar 918 Spyder, the most powerful Porsche you can currently buy makes 570 horsepower. That’s the Panamera Turbo S, which is followed closely by the 560-hp 911 Turbo S. Thing is, 700 hp is the new normal (Lamborghini Aventador, Ferrari F12 Berlinetta), and Porsche doesn’t compete in that space. But they will by 2017.

    Expect hybridized, plug-in 700-plus-hp versions of both the Panamera Turbo S and the 911 Turbo S. The technology will easily and effectively trickle down from the 918 Spyder because for one, software is software and already paid for. For another, electric traction motors and lithium ion batteries are easy to scale. Sound farfetched? Remember that some European city centers will be Zero-Emissions Zones (aka ZEZs, where internal combustion and regular hybrids will be banned) sooner than later, and plug-in hybrids seem to be the only solution save for pure electric vehicles. BMW’s already prepared for this eventuality with its high-tech i8 PHEV. It also makes sense that the range-topping (and therefore most expensive) versions of each Porsche will get hybridized. We can also guess that if the 156-hp electric motor from the rear of the 918 can fit between the gas engines and PDK transmissions that total output will be around 725-730 hp.
     
    You can expect both cars to wear an e-Hybrid badge, just like their 918 big brother. You can also expect the next generation Cayenne Turbo S to get a hybrid option/e-Hybrid badge as well, though that remains an educated guess for now. There’s nothing definitive yet as to whether the new e-Hybrids will slot above the existing Turbo S models, or if they’ll replace the current pinnacle cars. Everyone knows how much Porsche loves model proliferation, but word on the Straße is that there are already too many variants within each model. Sixteen versions of the 911 and 11 Panameras are already hard enough to differentiate, not just in customers’ minds, but for Porsche employees. So say some. Knowing Porsche however, the upcoming e-Hybrids will be new models. You can also expect to see a PHEV version of the new twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 found in the Panamera S as that’s the powertrain we saw in the Sport Turismo Concept.
     
    Then there are the models on top of the models, like the Cayenne Coupe and the aforementioned Panamera Sport Turismo -- the sexy, station wagon, PHEV version of the Panamera we drove in Beverly Hills last year. To catch you up, think of the Sport Turismo as the Audi A7/Mercedes CLS version of the Panamera -- 20% of Panamera sales will be Sport Turismo, and they will sell for 20% more money. That metric probably holds true for the Cayenne Coupe. Both variants will initially only exist in high-dollar e-Hybrid form, with less potent, less expensive versions to follow.
     
    The strategy is similar to how Porsche launched the Macan, with the two big boy engines (the 340-hp Macan S and the 400-hp Turbo) out of the gate initially, to be followed by a turbo-four version soon enough. When the Macan S appears, it very well may be a PHEV version of the Macan Turbo. For the time being, expect Cayenne Coupe and Panamera Sport Turismo pricing to start at $185K and go up. Not cheap, but these are 725-plus-hp, part-time electric vehicles we’re talking about. Also, expect the Cayenne Coupe to be badged as the Cayenne Sport Turismo, exactly like how BMW has both a 3 and 5 Series Gran Turismo as well as a 4 and 6 series Gran Coupe.
     
    All of which brings us to perhaps the most exciting new car Porsche will bring to market in the next three years, the GT4. Based on the Cayman and probably destined to be called the Cayman GT4, the GT4 will be the big-power, mid-engine, reasonably priced Porsche every purist has been crowing about since forever. By reasonably priced we mean compared to a GT3. Pricing will be about $125K and the GT4 will sit way above the recently created Cayman GTS. What makes a GT4? Expect a transmission similar to the modified PDK unit found in the GT3.
     
    What engine is still the big question mark, and interestingly might be settled this June in France. If the 919 Hybrid goes real big and wins the 24 Hours of Le Mans, expect Porsche to try and capitalize on that fact by pushing a turbocharged four-cylinder plug-in hybrid powertrain. If the 919’s teething problems continue, the GT4 could remain as a flat-six, but with hybrid assist. Expect to also see a Boxster version of the GT4, though it will most likely be called the RS Spyder. Either way, validation testing on the inline-4 turbo is taking place right now.
     
    One Porsche engine that’s not going to see the light of day is a flat-four. There was some hope that because the turbo-four will (as we’ve previously reported) go into a 911 that a flat, or boxer version of the engine will get built and with it the return of the loved-by-some 912 nomenclature. Seems like both the 912 badge and a modern flat-four Porsche engine are not destined for this world.
     
    The question then becomes who gets the turbo I-4 first, the 911 or the Boxster/Cayman? Depends on who you talk to at Porsche, as the mid-engine guys generally don’t communicate with (or seem to like) the rear-engine guys and vice-versa. Our best guess is that since the Boxster is first in line for a refresh, that’s where we’ll see Porsche’s four-cylinder motor appear first. A turbo-four was recently confirmed for the Euro-spec Macan crossover, but it's possible that engine may be of a different design. Expect the Boxster's I-4 to then work its way to the 911 and Cayman. The really good news? The turbo-four plus hybrid power will be good for over 400 hp, more than the Carrera S makes currently. Is it 2017 yet?"
     


    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Interesting, but the 919's "teething problems" (at least in the first two races) are not related to the engine, but rather drive shaft (front), drive -line, dampers, and a too conservatively set crash sensor. Why would these effect the engine choice in a future road car?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Not sure how reliable motortrend is... Whenever I read something about the GT3 version of the cayman, my bs alarm starts going wild...


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Joost:

    Not sure how reliable motortrend is... Whenever I read something about the GT3 version of the cayman, my bs alarm starts going wild...

    Lol, maybe not this time around. You never know


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    pxaxh:
    Joost:

    Not sure how reliable motortrend is... Whenever I read something about the GT3 version of the cayman, my bs alarm starts going wild...

    Lol, maybe not this time around. You never know

    My bs alarm bells have been ringing for almost 10 years on this topic. Now stuck with bs tinnitus.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    YES we want a monster engine in the Cayman BUT NOT the monster price!  They totally miss the point if they price it (again) based merely on their model line-up HP chart.  Frustrating.  I guess this is the problem for Porsche - they can never build a car which is quicker than a more expensive one.  They also must always make room for next years increase without stepping on the toes of all the other VW Corp. cars.  McLaren, for example, has none of these concerns or very minor versions of these concerns.

    Sadly, none of the NEW 991s are ever going to be collectible cars, not even the GT3 or Turbo.  They will be electrically and mechanically complex nightmares as 10 year old used cars, like the 928 was after ten years - and they will be worth next to nothing due to the cost to fix them if they fail.  They have become marketing tools dependant on the deep pockets of those who seek status.  Time to buy up any old aircooled 911s and mezger engined ,manual shift, water cooled cars.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    The Cayman can never out perform the base 911.  


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bvineyards:

    The Cayman can never out perform the base 911.  

     I'm pretty sure it already does (well equipped GTS vs poorly equipped C2)


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Are we to believe that there will be inline 4's in these cars?  Even the base 911? The end of the 911 as we know it. I just don't believe they would do that. 

    My 997.1 C2S grows more special to me every time I read this thread.

    -J


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Leawood911:

    YES we want a monster engine in the Cayman BUT NOT the monster price!  They totally miss the point if they price it (again) based merely on their model line-up HP chart.  Frustrating.

    +1 Smiley

    Then they completely miss the point. It does not even have to be a monster engine, as long as the car is stripped out and light a la ClubSport.

    Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:
     

    Then they completely miss the point. It does not even have to be a monster engine, as long as the car is stripped out and light a la ClubSport.

    Smiley

    You are aware that Porsche is not a small manufacturer and that they have certain safety standards they need to maintain at all model levels? I expect some weight reduction in future sports car models but not what you may expect. You need to look else for that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    And they will sell so few of them that it won't even make their bottom line blip... Won't happen...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:
    bluelines:
     

    Then they completely miss the point. It does not even have to be a monster engine, as long as the car is stripped out and light a la ClubSport.

    Smiley

    You are aware that Porsche is not a small manufacturer and that they have certain safety standards they need to maintain at all model levels? I expect some weight reduction in future sports car models but not what you may expect. You need to look else for that.

    Yes, surprisingly I am aware of that. If they rip out the A/C, audio, electrical gizmos for comfort and most of the electrical wiring, etc. they could easily save a respectable amount of weight. With more hi-tech materials (lighter yet stronger) even more weight could be shed. All that with no negative impact on safety standards.

    A 1200kg car should be possible if Porsche got their act together. That is a 100kg down from the 987 Spyder. No problem.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    And they will sell so few of them that it won't even make their bottom line blip... Won't happen...

    Correct, such a model would not be offered for a direct impact on the revenue. There are enough Macans and Cayennes taking care of that. It would be indirect. We have seen that before from Porsche.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    When? Boxster Spyder? Minor roof change...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    When? Boxster Spyder? Minor roof change...

    The 959 is the most well-known example. Porsche lost money on each car. I bet many of these so called "limited edition" models are not really worth it for Porsche other that tickling the enthusiast crowd. Us that is... and we like to be tickled, don't we? Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Porsche lost money on the 996 40 years anniversary limited edition models, offered with X51, PSE, LSD, special body parts, special paint and special interior, for a small price difference.

    From then on they vowed not to make a limited edition variant unless it makes an above average profit.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Do you think the 987 Spyder made a profit? The roof was sh*t, but someone still spent the time and effort engineering it and they had to manufacture it in a small series. 

    Of course, it all depends on the basic premium on the cars. I bet all modern 911 "limited editions" still were were well into the plus side because the basic premium is so ridiculously high. For example, the 991 50 year edition.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:

    Do you think the 987 Spyder made a profit? The roof was sh*t, but someone still spent the time and effort engineering it and they had to manufacture it in a small series. 

    Of course, it all depends on the basic premium on the cars. I bet all modern 911 "limited editions" still were were well into the plus side because the basic premium is so ridiculously high. For example, the 991 50 year edition.

    Next 981 Spyder roof will be hopefully better Smiley


     
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