Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    When it rains, it pours.

    After having to call my service department numerous times today, my service advisor notified me of an engine replacement that will be done to my car. Guys, I find this COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE on behalf of Porsche. I feel that I have been very patient in regards to their lack of service and technical analysis. As some of you may know, I speak of the CHECK ENGINE light that mysteriously haunts my dashboard. After having the car in the dealer for several weeks, I found it to be completely absurd that the mechanics, shop foreman, and PORSCHE could not solve the issue. Is it me, or does anyone else in this forum feel that a car of such caliber should require a mechanic of equal caliber?

    So after several "so called" tests, and test drives, it was found that there is nothing wrong with the way the vehicle drives. It was determined by (apparently Porsche and my so called "service dept.") that it was a computer problem and that it would be replaced. One week later, the engine light reemerges and the dealer decided to re-administer their "tests," only to tell me (after I had to call them repeatedly; not like they would pick up the phone and notify me) that the engine must now be replaced.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I do not want this car with a new engine. It is simply not the vehicle that I purchased, and it will never be the same again. The depreciation value of the car will be enormous. How could I trade in a car who's chasis, axles, and everything else has traveled roughly 20,000 miles with an engine that has traveled ZERO miles? Unacceptable, and I refuse to take this car back. I feel as if the "magic and happiness" I felt to finally own and drive a Porsche has gone.

    I have notified my dealer of what I think of the situation. Tomorrow, I will meet with them and discuss the issue further. I will keep you guys posted.

    If anyone has any experience with an issue like this one or similar, I urge to share your insight.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    I would have a chat with the Porsche Regional representative for your area...

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Who's your p-car dealer in florida?

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    You may want to address this issue directly to PCNA. I tell you talking to your Regional rep is no use. My '06 got a rip on the seat, they want to just patch the leather. I think it is totally unacceptable with such a new car they do not even brother to replace the seat cover. I took it to PCNA and still waiting for thier reply. I got the feeling the result will be the same. As for your situation, you are glad that they replace your entire engine. They would have JUST REPAIR it for you. Good Luck.

    Any $$ Out of Your Pocket?

    What exactly do you want them to do? Just out of curiosity. Do you want a new car?

    If they are replacing the engine under warranty I doubt you will get a new car from them. Not even sure what legal traction you with them if they are willing to fix it.

    Under most lemon laws you have 3 times to get the item repaired before it goes to arbitration. They are just replacing the engine.

    It sucks thats it not the original engine but from all my readings this is what Porsche does. They are very close lipped about the whole thing and they have not given anyone any idea how many engines they have swapped out.

    Do some searching on the net and see how it impacts depreciation. Porsches like most cars take huge hits in depreciation in the first few years.

    Re: Any $$ Out of Your Pocket?

    Quote:
    tincanman99 said:
    What exactly do you want them to do? Just out of curiosity. Do you want a new car?

    If they are replacing the engine under warranty I doubt you will get a new car from them. Not even sure what legal traction you with them if they are willing to fix it.

    Under most lemon laws you have 3 times to get the item repaired before it goes to arbitration. They are just replacing the engine.

    It sucks thats it not the original engine but from all my readings this is what Porsche does. They are very close lipped about the whole thing and they have not given anyone any idea how many engines they have swapped out.

    Do some searching on the net and see how it impacts depreciation. Porsches like most cars take huge hits in depreciation in the first few years.



    I am very familiar with Lemon Laws, as I recently settled with BMW over a mechanical failure on my M3. As what I want them to do? I want them to give me a reason for swapping out the engine. They can not give me a single explanation (after concluding that the engine was working "just fine") as to why this light keeps re-appearing. I find it ridiculous that after stating that there is no mechanical problem the vehicle, that they would then swap out the engine. All I really want, is an explanation. Let me also say, this is not the first, nor the second time that this has occured. This is the fourth.

    Re: Any $$ Out of Your Pocket?

    Hi Krown, is the engine swaping thing after the headlights? wow, what a year for you...

    anyhow, I worked at Porsche for 5 years and if you get the entire engine swaped you will be better off I can assure you that. Engine swaping is fairly easy. New engines are built on a separate bench, not taken from the line, and they are blueprinted. Most new engines I have driven are faster than the original engines and very durable. If I were in your position and an engine swap was eminent I would ask for a new clutch free. Unless you are Tiptronic, ouch then, no freebie clutch. But if you are manual I would as for an extra gift, maybe the short shifter and a discount on next purchase. From my point of view this is as much as you will be getting. A demo car to drive around is a must in you negotiation and if you are leasing, stop payment of the time the car spends in the shop. Enjoy the new engine

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Quote:
    krown05 said:
    The depreciation value of the car will be enormous. How could I trade in a car who's chasis, axles, and everything else has traveled roughly 20,000 miles with an engine that has traveled ZERO miles? Unacceptable, and I refuse to take this car back. I feel as if the "magic and happiness" I felt to finally own and drive a Porsche has gone.




    Actually, your car is more attractive to an educated dealer during trade-in if it has a fresh, problem-free engine and ECU. I have never heard of a car's depreciation plummeting because it received a fresh engine from the manufacturer.

    The magic and happiness should return once the next engine is installed. Try to stay positive.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Agreed. your resale will be better. The situation is not favorable, but having the new engine is far bettter than a repaired one. Gievn the same price point, almost any informed Porsche buyer would opt for the car with a replaced, lower mileage new engine, rather than the existing engine with 20,000 miles.
    And, like someone else posted, what is it that you expect them to do. Porsche is honoring their warranty commitment.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    You fit the pattern of owners who feel violated when the manufacturer wants to replace their engine. It is perfectly OK to have the engine replaced. Engines of 911s are very easy to replace in the field - no big deal. You had my sympathy on your other headlight issue - but not on this one. If PCNA gives you a new engine - take it!

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Guys, I understand the situation. If I were to get the new engine installed tomorrow, they told me it would be ready by this Friday. It's just not a desirable position to be in. In the past few months this car and dealership have cost much grief over something I find to be extremely joyous. I have a meeting with the dealer and a Porsche Rep. tomorrow to discuss the situation. I will let you all know what happens. Thanks for your views on the matter and I will take many of your points into consideration when discussing the issue tomorrow.

    Many thanks,
    Ray

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    I would get the dealer to buy it back from you for a reasonable price if you are concerned about selling a car with a replacement engine. I wouldn't buy a car with a replacement engine - I think I have read that Porsche doesn't build new engines, they 'refurbish' failed engines! Whether they are better or not, I couldn't care less!

    Its only failr to get the market price for your car by the way.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    IMO the situation you're in is like dealing with the government i.e. they hold the cards and dictate the outcome. P's position with stuff like this is just to keep fixing it and fixing it until it gets fixed or you just say screw this and deal with the problem. Not unless you can pull some strings you may just have to tough it out and see the glass half full

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    imo...lawyer up. i would imagine that florida has strong lemon laws... please keep us informed.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    I know where you are coming from mate. I prefer my car now it has some miles on it. Its way faster and has much better fuel economy than a new tight engine. I would ask for a free power pack 381 BHP upgrade (or a good discount) for you new engine, so its as fast when new as a 355 BHP model is when its got 20000+ miles on it.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    It's aggravating but the warranty covers the drive train, and they are finally fixing the problem. I got a surprise last year, when I took my "05 997 in for a minor issue (trim) and was told the Tiptronic tranny was among 260 that were in a service bulletin to replace. I had about 2500 miles on the car. It took a few days to get the tranny in, but months before they would shake loose the service bulletin. If you put the car up, you can tell the tranny is new, so no hiding it. I spoke to a guy locally who sells exotic cars, and he said this is the way Porsche does it, and having a major part of the drive train replaced does not impact resale. In fact, if there is a problem or a service bulletin issue which has not been addressed, he will not take the car for consignment.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    I think you're over-reacting. I had a new replacement engine in my first Porsche after a year of driving it ('96 C4S) and it was better after. I then had a new replacement engine put in my brand new '01 996 turbo. It was one of the first turbos and developed a strange rattle and Porsche wanted to know why so put in a new engine. Both new engines were an improvement on their replacement and it did not hurt the resale value. Besides, you have already enjoyed the best 20k miles of the car and a new engine will be a step up. How would you feel about getting a replacement engine with 20k miles already on it... If you put up a fuss and make them buy it back, they will give you the fair market value for a used 997 with 20k miles and you won't like it- just look at cars.com and autotrader and you'll be shocked. So you don't know why the check engine light...either do they and I think they are doing the right thing. I know we are all passionate about our cars and pay a lot for them but these things happen, more often then with a civic or camry. I wouldn't waste money on lawyers since they are holding up to their end of the warranty. If you are really unsettled about this, have them buy it back for a fair price and insist on a big discount for a new car. They have a lot more room to deal on a new one then buying back an old one with 20k miles on it. Good luck.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Maybe the only real negative will be another 2,000 mile break-in period--bummer!!!

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    After speaking with my dealer, I must say that I do not feel any better about the situation. My service advisor, the service manager, and the shop foreman were not a help at all. We went back and forth on many topics, and they agreed with me on many of my concerns. However, this is an issue in which I must deal directly with Porsche. They notified the regional representative, and he is supposed to contact me sometime tomorrow. In the meantime I went ahead and authorized the installation of the new engine and new headlamps (they were stolen). My decision as to whether or not I will keep the car however, will depend on a number of variables. I will discuss these concerns with the representative and whomever he puts me in contact with. To sum it up, I would most definitely appreciate a discount on the purchase of my next vehicle which I plan to spec out before the year's end. I am sure (I don't want to be optimistic) that Porsche can accomodate to these needs. In the past my family and I were involved with some serious issues with them, and they behaved wonderfully. Their level of customer service was so great, that we were given a brand new car for a very small cost. Once again, I appreciate your points of views and I would appreciate some more. I will keep you guys posted.

    Ray

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Ray- for what it's worth...personally if I were in the market for a pre-owned 997S and a solid, well-kept example was available which happened to have a replacement engine, I wouldn't flinch a bit.

    Granted I would verify that the replacement work was done by an authorized Porsche tech., and as long as it passed my own Porsche mechanic's independent PPI, it would not deter me.

    It would be different if we were talking about a vintage '55 Speedster or similar where matching #'s would be integral to the enduring collector value of the car. With the 997's I don't think it will matter much.

    I agree you could still raise cain with the stealer and see if you can pin them down to handing you a 'We owe' document guaranteeing your next vehicle at $2K over invoice or something along those lines.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    I recently spoke with the Porsche representative for the southeastern region of the United States. He is a very nice gentleman that called me while on vacation. I explained to him my concerns, and he was extremely helpful in assisting me. To ensure that there isn't any problems when I trade/sell my vehicle, he assured me that Porsche will stand by the original re-sale value of the car. He also told me that if there were any complications, that I should contact him directly and that he will assit me with any problems I am facing. Furthermore, Porsche has granted a discount on my next purchase. And finally, to ensure good faith on their part, Porsche will be sending me a check in compensation for any troubles I have encountered during this process. I will not disclose the amount, but it is very generous considering the circumstances.

    My views on the situation are: Yes, it sucks that I had to deal with this rather unfortunate situation. But this is for best. After speaking with Porsche directly, I am more assured of the process and of any future investments I may have with the company. As usual, they have treated me very well. I am however, disappointed with my service department. I can't help but feel that my customer satisfaction has been compramised in a way that gave me the impression that Porsche did not have to answer to me or to any of my concerns. I find this to be terrible on their part. Either way, I have a new engine, new headlights, and the security as well as the explanation that I wanted. I guess the only thing left is to give you guys a report on the new engine and how it runs. Thanks again for all your views.

    Ray

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    While I personally think you overreacted a bit, you certainly handled the situation well. My car was a launch car back in September of 2004 and had a transmission replaced at a hair over 100 miles. I really never made an issue of it (And have had 20,000+ trouble-free miles) but I probably could have at least received some compensation or incentive from Porsche.

    I don't doubt your car will be fine post-replacement but good job on getting something out of Porsche for the incident.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Personally, I think you've overreacted a bit too but I'm glad to hear that Porsche has decided to step up to the plate. I would be absolutely thrilled to get a new motor and I suspect that's not something PCNA would willingly do everyday. Here's to hoping that you eventually get everything resolved to your utmost satisfaction.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Thanks guys. More than anything I was upset because my dealership would not provide me with a solid answer as to why the engine was being replaced. That, coupled with a few other issues made it difficult for me go ahead with this process. When in contact with Porsche, my questions were answered and without really having to ask or demand anything, they automatically compenstated me for any inconveniences. Like I said, it hasn't been an experience that anyone would hope for, but atleast I know that the problem lies within my service dept. and not with Porsche.

    Re: When it rains, it pours.

    Tell them to put an S engine in and all will be forgiven.

    Or rather say to the sales manager, "What are you going to do to make this up to me, to add value and keep me a satisfied customer?" It would be interesting to see if they can come up with some value add or free upgrade, that would make you a happy camper... hopefully they will. Good Luck!

    But the Sales Manager has the most power in the dealership, excepting the owner of the dealership.

     
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