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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    There is a shelf behind the 570S seats. It's the same as the 12C. The additional shelf space in the GT is actually only the area from where those leather straps start. It's really not that much extra space.

    Here's the the 570S shelf.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Looks like the GT is the Targa version in the 991, from the convenience of accessing the trunk perspective.


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S - Cayman GT4 (soon)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I find it a bit odd actually; it's not as if the 570S is extreme or uncomfortable - far from it...


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I think they target "normal" Carrera customers with the GT. A bit more civilized and wife-friendly indecision


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    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    There is a shelf behind the 570S seats. It's the same as the 12C. The additional shelf space in the GT is actually only the area from where those leather straps start. It's really not that much extra space.

    Here's the the 570S shelf.

    Ah, OK thanks for that - I have never seen that particular view in the reviews I have seen.  I will be in Vancouver next week or so and will try to stop by the dealer there to have a first look at these; for some reason this car is appealing in ways that most mid-engines are not for me, they may have hit an interesting sweet spot with the 570.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    bluelines:

    I think they target "normal" Carrera customers with the GT. A bit more civilized and wife-friendly indecision

    I'd say the 570S was already comparable with a 991.2 Carrera S in terms of every day driver civilty. Any further and it's in Audi territory indecision


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    DaveGordon:
    bluelines:

    I think they target "normal" Carrera customers with the GT. A bit more civilized and wife-friendly indecision

    I'd say the 570S was already comparable with a 991.2 Carrera S in terms of every day driver civilty. Any further and it's in Audi territory indecision

    Smiley

    There is a market for Audis too Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Have you ever driven a 650s? It is also capable for every day. The only thing is getting in and out of the car. The McLarens have a superior suspension. On the 650s it is like flying carpet. The throttle response is smooth and the steering isn't nervous. Without sport exhaust it is no too loud. Even the race seats have enough comfort. With a 650s you can enter parking places where it is not possible to think about with a GT3RS.

    the 570gt should be even more usable for dd.

    I really don't see why you can't drive such a car daily. 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    No I have not driven any McLaren. I have also never said any of them cannot be used as daily driver indecision I was merely attending the 570 GT presentation in Zürich and heard the head operating designer explain their reasons for the model. It did sound like they had done market research on it in advance, but obviously they had forgot to check RT wink


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    bluelines:

    No I have not driven any McLaren. I have also never said any of them cannot be used as daily driver indecision I was merely attending the 570 GT presentation in Zürich and heard the head operating designer explain their reasons for the model. It did sound like they had done market research on it in advance, but obviously they had forgot to check RT wink

    The target buyer is the 991.2 Turbo S or R8 or even AMG GT buyer. I think the sensation of turbo lag in McLarens mentioned earlier in this thread is actually more a function of the dual clutch which is still not as slick as the Ferrari one and the one in the Porsche GT cars.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    Have you ever driven a 650s? It is also capable for every day. The only thing is getting in and out of the car. The McLarens have a superior suspension. On the 650s it is like flying carpet. The throttle response is smooth and the steering isn't nervous. Without sport exhaust it is no too loud. Even the race seats have enough comfort. With a 650s you can enter parking places where it is not possible to think about with a GT3RS.

    the 570gt should be even more usable for dd.

    I really don't see why you can't drive such a car daily. As I stated I live at 120 cam rose avenue and not 63 Colchester road Edgware, can you pls take that address off my file, also by law a default can only be on your file for 6 yrs, both PRA and Lowell have gone past the 6 yr period and should be now taken off.  PRA was March 2010 whilst Lowell was February 2010 according to your report. I will appreciate if this is actioned immediatelyAs I stated I live at 120 cam rose avenue and not 63 Colchester road Edgware, can you pls take that address off my file, also by law a default can only be on your file for 6 yrs, both PRA and Lowell have gone past the 6 yr period and should be now taken off.  PRA was March 2010 whilst Lowell was February 2010 according to your report. I will appreciate if this is actioned immediately

    Getting in and out of a McLaren is a nightmare as a daily driver, today I tried sitting inside a 570S but couldn't get in at 6ft 3'....utter rubbish when it comes to legroom. They had a nice white 675LT that had the snorkel, unfortunately the snorkel had taken up a bit of headroom😰  The Huracan I drove yesterday had much more space than the McLaren. Saying that, the Huracan is more spacious in terms of leg and headroom than the Adventador 😱


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Aventador is much more roomier than Huracan.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I did a test drive of  the 570 S last week. Got my GT3 RS yesterday. Those are 2 very different animals. I am not talking about numbers. I am talking about feeling inside and driving experience. Mc is way more comfy, efficient, lean driving, powerfull. GT3 RS is just a GT3 RS. Rough. Noisy. I would say the Mclaren is for knowledgeable, demanding dicerning gentleman drivers. GT3 RS is for those who like the idea and the experience of driving something closer to a race car. Conclusion: I keep my GT3 RS...until McLaren put on the market something rougher.

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Inspirine:

    I did a test drive of  the 570 S last week. Got my GT3 RS yesterday. Those are 2 very different animals. I am not talking about numbers. I am talking about feeling inside and driving experience. Mc is way more comfy, efficient, lean driving, powerfull. GT3 RS is just a GT3 RS. Rough. Noisy. I would say the Mclaren is for knowledgeable, demanding dicerning gentleman drivers. GT3 RS is for those who like the idea and the experience of driving something closer to a race car. Conclusion: I keep my GT3 RS...until McLaren put on the market something rougher.

    Sure, it's not meant to be a raw track car, but a nice road car which is also pretty quick on track.  GT3 RS is certainly not the kind of competition they had in mind - more the 911 Turbo S.

    On the rougher end of the scale, there's always this:  http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-articles/mclaren-570s-gt4indecision

    I'm currently thinking something inbetween would be nice.  Given what the sales guy said about the success of the 675LT, it wouldn't surprise me if they did a baby one.

    EDIT: maybe the 570S Sprint they mention is it..?


    --

     

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The GT4 and Sprint are not road legal. The closest thing to a GT3 RS experience would probably be the 675LT.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    The GT4 and Sprint are not road legal. The closest thing to a GT3 RS experience would probably be the 675LT.

    675 is more a competitor to GT2 RS (coming soon)


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Don't know... why would I exchange a turbo s for a 570... Only a significant upgrade (like the 650s successor) might justify this step. A 570 is not enough. Has nothing more to offer to me than a turbo s but less useful Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Well, it's 5x cooler looking. That's the only reason to buy any exotic over a turbo s.

    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
    Well, it's 5x cooler looking. That's the only reason to buy any exotic over a turbo s.

    Does not look cooler to me... The turbo s is more classical and blends much better with daily life... I need performance/drive feel improvements to justify the swap. The 570 certainly is not enough for me Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd73xOyIjCg

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    noone1:
    Well, it's 5x cooler looking. That's the only reason to buy any exotic over a turbo s.

    Does not look cooler to me... The turbo s is more classical and blends much better with daily life... I need performance/drive feel improvements to justify the swap. The 570 certainly is not enough for me Smiley

    I don't think that exists anymore as far as normal driving and normal roads go. All modern exotics are officially way too high of performance for normal roads. I only car about looks and amenities nowadays. Most exotics can't even go full throttle for more than a second or two without going 60mph over the speed limit.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:
    Well, it's 5x cooler looking. That's the only reason to buy any exotic over a turbo s.

    Does not look cooler to me... The turbo s is more classical and blends much better with daily life... I need performance/drive feel improvements to justify the swap. The 570 certainly is not enough for me Smiley

    I don't think that exists anymore as far as normal driving and normal roads go. All modern exotics are officially way too high of performance for normal roads. I only car about looks and amenities nowadays. Most exotics can't even go full throttle for more than a second or two without going 60mph over the speed limit.

    I see your point - for Germany there is still some usability of more power at speeds above 200kph. Also, if the chassis is more rigid and the handling even better on the spider version that also counts as performance improvement for me. In addition, steering feel might be better. Otherwise, the turbo s is quite a wonderful car already Smiley I am excited to see the 650s successor Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Got an interesting offer for a 36 month lease for a fully optioned 12C Spider dealer showcar...not bad but still not going to do it. Was tempting though, even if it isn't the latest 650.

    It seems McLaren tries to push the new 570 hard in Germany but I still think the price is too high for such a car. If they want to get a piece of the 911 Turbo customer cake in Germany, they need to offer more attractive buying/lease options. Also, delivery times seem to be quite high at the moment.

    Btw: On my way to Italy, I drove behind a new R8 V10 Plus on a country road. Every time he accelerated, I heard it (pretty loud) inside our Macan Turbo. Car was owned by Audi I think (IN license plate), so not very likely and aftermarket exhaust. I was very impressed with the sound and the car looks quite good as well (however, I kind of like the "old" one more).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Every price is to high indecision - the world would be nice if we could buy all these cars for half the price.

    I don´t think that the 570S is more overpriced then a 991 turbo s. Both offers similar capabilities - the Porsche little bit more dd capabilities due to awd - the McLaren more exclusivity. There is no reason why it should be cheaper.

    The leasing offer, I´ve got, for a 570S is by far better then any you can get from Porsche for 991 turbo s. So if you decide to drive it for three years it is cheaper to drive a 570s then a 991 turbo s. 

    Even the 570S is a good deal - the 650S is in my opinion a much better. McLaren offers for a 650s even better leasing conditions. The 650S offers much more features then 570S - air brake - PCC and a spider version.

    The 12C spider might be the cheapest way to drive a supercar but the front looks outdated.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    Every price is to high indecision - the world would be nice if we could buy all these cars for half the price.

    Not really. I would seriously consider a 570 if the price would be around 150k, maybe 160k with options.


    I don´t think that the 570S is more overpriced then a 991 turbo s. Both offers similar capabilities - the Porsche little bit more dd capabilities due to awd - the McLaren more exclusivity. There is no reason why it should be cheaper.

    The 991 Turbo S is a different type of car and I am not surprised it is a bestseller right now in Germany. It is the perfect daily driver and "politically correct" over here. A McLaren is a different story and you know that...

    The leasing offer, I´ve got, for a 570S is by far better then any you can get from Porsche for 991 turbo s. So if you decide to drive it for three years it is cheaper to drive a 570s then a 991 turbo s. 

    Yes, McLaren seems to have good lease offers right now in Germany but I wouldn't be too sure about the 991 Turbo S. This car is more expensive, probably the reason why the lease offer is worse.

    Even the 570S is a good deal - the 650S is in my opinion a much better. McLaren offers for a 650s even better leasing conditions. The 650S offers much more features then 570S - air brake - PCC and a spider version.

    The 12C spider might be the cheapest way to drive a supercar but the front looks outdated.

    I wouldn't care about the 12C Spider being old, the lease offer is really good but my neighbor has the same car and he wants to get rid of it (no more McLaren for him, he had so much trouble because of this car...it went up to the mayor... Smiley). His next car? Very likely 991.2 Turbo S Cab. Not my thing though. I would love to get a Huracan but not possible, too flashy. This is why I'm still considering the R8, maybe even the new one.

    Basically new R8 V10 Plus with low mileage (500-1500 km) and a new price tag of 210-220k EUR are selling with a five year warranty (2 years plus 3 years extended) for under 170k EUR. Even found a car for 160k EUR, fully loaded. This is basically a Huracan in Audi disguise, pretty perfect for me if you ask me. I know you're not an Audi fan but the offers are very tempting, even if I still like how the old one looks.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Maybe we are looking from different perspectives. For me an Audi R8 would be in consideration for 150k or 160k. Huracan no way it is to flashy regardless of the price.

    Both Audi and 991 turbo s have a giant advantage - the service network here in Germany and the "politically correctness" - on the other hand I find both cars boring. 

    You mentioned that the mcLaren is a different story ... hmmh Yes it is different to Ferrari, Lamborghini and also Porsche - but somehow I had the feeling that the car has more gentleman character then F or L. Maybe I am not objective enough but R8 and 570S - seems for me to be in the same politically correct or incorrect league. 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    Maybe we are looking from different perspectives. For me an Audi R8 would be in consideration for 150k or 160k. Huracan no way it is to flashy regardless of the price.

    I agree, the Audi R8 shouldn't be more than 150k or 160k but this is what I am rooting for... (slightly used car for 50k less Smiley).

    Both Audi and 991 turbo s have a giant advantage - the service network here in Germany and the "politically correctness" - on the other hand I find both cars boring. 

    Indeed. Smiley One of the major reasons why I do not consider getting an exotic.

    Audi R8 boring? Have you driven one? The sound is divine.

    Example: Last week, we left for Italy on Saturday (21st). One day before our trip, my wife had a flat tire on her Macan Turbo (she wants to drive in Italy too, so we didn't want to use the Jeep). On Friday at 4 pm, she went to the local Porsche dealer to get the tire exchanged (Continental 5P with N rating and in 21'' 295 size, not easy to find).

    Saturday morning, I checked all tires again (I'm quite paranoid when it comes to tires and brakes...) and found a serious damage (a small piece of the sidewall was missing, my wife probably scraped it off when she parked the car...) on the side wall of the front tire. At 10 am on Saturday, she drove back to the local Porsche dealer and had the tire exchanged (although there was only one mechanic on duty but he had experience), two hours before we started our trip.

    This is the advantage of a local dealer...Smiley

    You mentioned that the mcLaren is a different story ... hmmh Yes it is different to Ferrari, Lamborghini and also Porsche - but somehow I had the feeling that the car has more gentleman character then F or L. Maybe I am not objective enough but R8 and 570S - seems for me to be in the same politically correct or incorrect league. 

    A R8 is politically correct over here where I live (there are many R8 around...). A 570? I doubt it. Like I told you before, my neighbor got in serious trouble with his 12C Spider, his neighbors wanted to force him to get rid of the car and it went up to the mayor but the car is street legal and there was no legal ground for that. He is a gynecologist and has to get out at night to his patients and unfortunately, his 12C Spider has a sport exhaust and neighbors were pretty mad. 
    The "funny" part is: My other neighbor has a 997 Targa with PSE (this thing is LOUD!!!) and a C63 AMG Black Series, I have my GTS (which isn't exactly quiet as well Smiley) or the Jeep GC SRT with sport exhaust and none of the neighbors ever said something to me or my other neighbor. This may have something to do with his nationality and the fact that the car is yellow but as you can see, people care about others...in a negative sense and if you want to blend in, a McLaren is not the right car over here. Smiley 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    Audi R8 boring? Have you driven one? The sound is divine.

    Yes the old one with V10. The sound is great but driving around here in Black Forrest with a GT3RS or 650S is much more involving and I did have much more fun.

    Example: Last week, we left for Italy on Saturday (21st). One day before our trip, my wife had a flat tire on her Macan Turbo (she wants to drive in Italy too, so we didn't want to use the Jeep). On Friday at 4 pm, she went to the local Porsche dealer to get the tire exchanged (Continental 5P with N rating and in 21'' 295 size, not easy to find).

    Saturday morning, I checked all tires again (I'm quite paranoid when it comes to tires and brakes...) and found a serious damage (a small piece of the sidewall was missing, my wife probably scraped it off when she parked the car...) on the side wall of the front tire. At 10 am on Saturday, she drove back to the local Porsche dealer and had the tire exchanged (although there was only one mechanic on duty but he had experience), two hours before we started our trip.

    This is the advantage of a local dealer...Smiley

    It depends - had a hydraulic problem with my Panamera turbo on December 29th in Milano. There are two Porsche centers in Milano. Porsche Assistance gave me the first possible repair date January 11th. So we decided to send the car by truck to Pforzheim. Not everything which shines is gold.

    You mentioned that the mcLaren is a different story ... hmmh Yes it is different to Ferrari, Lamborghini and also Porsche - but somehow I had the feeling that the car has more gentleman character then F or L. Maybe I am not objective enough but R8 and 570S - seems for me to be in the same politically correct or incorrect league. 

    A R8 is politically correct over here where I live (there are many R8 around...). A 570? I doubt it. Like I told you before, my neighbor got in serious trouble with his 12C Spider, his neighbors wanted to force him to get rid of the car and it went up to the mayor but the car is street legal and there was no legal ground for that. He is a gynecologist and has to get out at night to his patients and unfortunately, his 12C Spider has a sport exhaust and neighbors were pretty mad. 
    The "funny" part is: My other neighbor has a 997 Targa with PSE (this thing is LOUD!!!) and a C63 AMG Black Series, I have my GTS (which isn't exactly quiet as well Smiley) or the Jeep GC SRT with sport exhaust and none of the neighbors ever said something to me or my other neighbor. This may have something to do with his nationality and the fact that the car is yellow but as you can see, people care about others...in a negative sense and if you want to blend in, a McLaren is not the right car over here. Smiley 

    This for sure depends mainly on himself and your neighborhood (AfD?? Smiley). A loud car is a loud car and a loud bike is a loud bike no matter of color and make. If I return home at night with my GT3RS I try to avoid any loudness, I choose to drive down and not up the street - the same with my Harley, where I turn off the loud exhaust 1 or 2 km before coming home.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The 688 HS is based on the 675 LT, where HS stands for High Sport. This McLaren produces 13 extra horsepower over the LT and it is much lighter! The solid rear wing seems to be inspired off the 650S GT3 which makes for the HS to look like it just came off the track!McLaren will produce 25 units of the 688 HS and only those customers who have spent quite some time, and money, at McLaren Special Operations will become eligible for one. All units of the car have already found an allocation!

     


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    McLaren is actually pretty clever, they are using similar tech (around basically the same engine) in all their models and change the design a bit here and there. 

    Regarding my neighborhood: It is a conservative catholic neighborhood, similar to many in (South) Germany. The noise of the car shouldn't play a role because me and the other neighbor have loud cars as well and I have a non-German background as well (and the whole neighborhood knows it) but the other guy is a muslim (which could be a problem) and he has a non-German name. Of course this is not the main reason why he is in trouble, he owned a 997 Turbo S Cab before and he was just fine, despite the aftermarket sport exhaust he had.

    The problem is/was clearly the car (McLaren...exotic) and the yellow color, the gossip got to us as well (of course) and this seems to be the major issue. People are envious...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


     
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