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    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    I hope they will not leave the tail lights like they are on the mule(like on the picture).....it's so ugly....Smiley
    --

    2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

    2007 997 GT3

    2006 Mercedes G500

    1993 964 Turbo (Sold)



    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    BlackOctober:
    I hope they will not leave the tail lights like they are on the mule(like on the picture).....it's so ugly....Smiley
    --

    2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

    2007 997 GT3

    2006 Mercedes G500

    1993 964 Turbo (Sold)

    haha don't worry this 928 coupe will get very interesting and beautiful lights!

    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    Atzporsche:
    xandi911:
    STRADALE:
    Atzporsche:

    Guys RC is just like us, guessing... he could be wrong. Don't hold anyone accountable for speculating on here... we're all speculating putting in our thoughts to try to come to terms with the excitement that is a new Porsche in the coming! weather 991 or 928 who cares, i think we're all super excited. I've been looking closely at mules for years now and RC has been more right than wrong because he's got many sources, which is why i think his words count for a lot in these speculations. 

     I personally do not think this is the next 911 because the shape is different. Yes porsche could make a bold move with the 991 but i highly doubt it. The overhangs are just not 911... spin it however you will.. we don't even need to know where the engine in this mule is IMO.

    I asked a couple of car enthusiasts at my work who know nothing about the camo/mule industry of prototypes and all 5 guys concluded it "kinda has bulky proportions unlike a 911" Now from the Panamera mules, we've learned that the bulky panels aren't all stuffed mules or camo... rather it is the real thing. So with that in mind, seeing these mules run around with their bulky low look and long rear overhand, not to mention the huge covered rear wing section... i conclude it should be something else than the next 911.

    Keep us the good work guys... let's do this for months and months :)


    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    997 Mules had the same "huge covered rear wing section”, matter of fact it may even be the same exact one, think I have a pic of it at my office. It has to look like that to give the motorized wing underneath room to go up & down. Which is just another reason it’s the next 911 if you look at that piece of camo it shows exactly the space needed for the rear wing to deploy.    

    Dunno why some of you guys can’t see this being the next 911, it's certainly closer in shape to the 997 than the 996 was to the 997 & the whole roof is exactly 911, what are the chances of another model using the same roof line as the 911? I really can’t see how there would be a motor under the front bonnet so what's the chances of another model w/ the same roofline as the 911 w/ the engine in the rear? Even the bonnet, front bumper, rear quarter &  front fender are 911 only they are more flared out, which is exactly what people wanted & the direction the 911 was going.

    I've seen all kinds of crazy camo but I just don’t buy the theory that Porsche is going to create a 911'ish one off body/roof just for a front engined test mule & put the engine in the rear of what will be a front engined car, just to fool people. What in the world would be the purpose of testing a mule in the first place if the engine isnt where it's supposed to be? There would be nothing to test in that case.

    Everybody knows the next 911 shape isn’t going to be dramatically different. The roofline will be similar, the shape, the body panels will probably see some further molding i.e.) 996 vs. 997 so really the big changes will be in the front & the rear. And what do you know the parts that aren’t really camoed are the areas that probably won’t change dramatically while the areas (front/rear) that will see the most changes are covered up by huge amounts of camo on this test mule. Heck, even the timing for seeing the next 911 mules now makes sense..

    ps: And I respectfully disagree - Engine location IS important, it's the biggest clue - Reason:  Porsche will not build another REAR engined sports car for MANY reasons.  Engine in the rear on the mule = next 911.

     

     

     


    --

     

    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

    you just said it  exactly what i would like to say  but with better english! Smiley

     

    its obvious its a little different from a 911,  because this one is the NEW ONE! 

     

    sorry  but i cant see anything dfifferent  of this...  

    IMHO.

     

    haha, i see your points but it persist that im slightly more right as in that this is not the next 911. I see your points though. The engine is in the rear, and let's just assume it is because it looks that way, until we get to see more pics. Also you are 100% correct that the roof line is 911.

    From my perspective, the new 911 would run in 997 disguse till a year or so before production in which it becomes important to test the new little body changes, such that it would require heavy camo... as seen in these pictures. So why would porsche go ahead and test all the little body changes for their next 911 right away instead of as done traditionally just before production. Furthermore, i think we can all agree that this mule looks bigger than the current 911. If the wheelbase is the same, then at least the overhangs are considerably longer! The reason this is weird is that i don't think we will see the 911 grow in size... this just does not seem the way porsche would want to go to me. Growing the 911 has no benefits as its roots (sportivity) will be negatively affected in both sheer size and the resulting weight increase. Even if the new 911 will have bigger engines, i think they can squeeze those in the existing back. They manage a 3.8 in a 993 afterall. IMO the next 911 or 991 would be in chassis development and early engine testing... probably 3.8 and 4.0, which is sweet. Im sure porsche co. has the layout and design already in the final stages for the 991 and i hope to see something soon, but for now at least i think this is either a 928 in final stages, or something special surprising based on the 997.

    Only time will tell though and until then ill start sketching the new 991 so you guys do get to see something :)

    cheers, Aaron

    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd

    It's not really too early to see next 911 mules now at all. Matter of fact it's right about when you do start to see mules.

    The mule doesnt have much longer overhangs, especially when you consider the camo over the existing body. In the rear look at the fake lights those fake lights would be on top of the real ones so you can a good idea of where the body would actually stop. As for the front have a look at the 1st picture below, the area I circled.   

    If it was a "928 in final stages" the engine wouldnt be in the rear right? Sorry but there is just no way Porsche tests a new front engine car w/ a mule w/ the engine in the rear. There would be no purpose to doing that kind of test, from cooling to tranny/ drive train location everything wouldnt be the way it should be so there's no rationale for doing such a test, it wouldnt tell you anything.   With that mule there is no way there is an engine in the front. 

    There is no room nor future for another rear engined Porsche, it's a miracle that such a platform has survived & prospered this long in the first place & Porsche knows it. 

    Engine in the rear=911 no question imo. 

    Also look at the 2nd & 3rd pic below. 
    --
    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia



    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    I think it's a 991 test mule. The engine is a DI 9A1, same muffler locations as the 997.2(they no longer cross).

    I'll keep mine.


    --
    Chris '07 997 TT Midnight on Sea '03 996 C4S gone

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    neunelf:

    911 shapes look so much alike through various generations that PAG can afford to show a new body underneath a little cameo and no one but die hard fans even notice. It seems the car is a logical evolution of the 997 with a lower body and the new mirror position introduced with the Panamera.

     

    DITTO!

    Thats' exactly  what I was trying to say the other day (above) but you were much more concise & used about 200 less words. lol!

    Most of the body panels are going to look very similiar, evolution not revolution. The iconic roof line shape is going to stay the same if anything this new 911 looks a little more pointy. The areas that will see the most change are the front & rear & those are the areas covered. Except for wanting to believe RC, I dont see a single good reason why/how this is a front engined 928/2 door Panorama but everything points to it being the next 911.  Just my 2.5 cents. 

    btw: This site has really clear images/click to enlarge:  

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/porsche-911-2011.html

    --

     

    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    The below car was seen as early as last summer. The new 991 running around w/ a 997 body & flared arches to accomodate the wider track.  imho the pics of this new mule above show the progress from the mule below. The front bumper accounting for new pedestrian safety rules, etc. The article evens mentions the removal of the side mirrors.  You can even watch a video of the car below:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "The current 997 Porsche 911 is still being updated for its mid-cycle refresh, with only the standard Carrera and Carrera 4, plus their performance ‘S’ variants, receiving the update. Still in the works are the new Turbo and the GT3 models, though they too are drawing near to their expected unveiling. Recently a test mule was spotted in Germany by our spy photographers, suggesting that Porsche engineers may have already begun testing the next-generation 998 model, and then Porsche's chief of research and development, Wolfgang Dürheimer, revealed some details of what to expect from the next-gen 911. Now we have video of the car in testing on the famous German circuit.

    The video shows the next-generation 998 911 carving the corners with ease, remaining very flat throughout and generally showing a composition that reflects the tremendous amount of engineering that underpins the modern 911. The tail-happy ways of decades past have been thoroughly sorted, and the car exhibits neutral, stable characteristics even at the limit, if the sound of the singing tires is any indication. All of this confirms what the man behind the 998's development has to say about it.

    Speaking of the new car, Dürheimer said, "'It will be even more competent, even sexier, even more unique. The design can of course only be evolutionary, but beneath the skin, almost anything is possible," reports CAR magazine. The 998 version of the car, known internally as 'project 991', will feature a few radical departures from the 911's long-running classical styling.

    The changes are out of necessity more than anything, but they will be noticeable. First, pedestrian protection rules in the EU will require a change to the nose section of the car, likely meaning a larger and more collapsible bumper section. The rear of the car will also be changed, but for aerodynamic improvement. Finally, the side mirrors will likely be deleted since they can be replaced with cameras and screens for improved aerodynamic efficiency.

    Other new features for the car will include heavy use of lightweight carbon fiber materials and active aerodynamics - surfaces that react to what the car is doing, and how fast it's doing it. Expect adjustable front and rear spoilers plus dynamically opening and closing air intakes. So far, few of these changes have been hinted by the test mule seen testing, but there are a few key details that reveal the new car is already in development.

    Some of the telltale signs that a new platform is residing under the familiar 997 sheet metal are the extended wheel arches, revealing a wider track is set to appear on the new model. This means the new car should be slightly bigger than the current model, while handling and dynamics should also see an improvement. The roll-cage fitted on this test car is another indication that the 998 platform is still in the early stages.

    It’s still too early to determine what changes Porsche has in store for the engine lineup, but expect to see the familiar flat-six engine range carry over with only minimal updates – possibly for emissions and economy standards. The new PDK dual-clutch gearbox will also carry over as will a standard six-speed manual. Rumors of a possible four-cylinder addition to the 911 lineup, effectively bringing back the 912, and the revival of the 914 are shaking things up, however, so at this point nearly anything seems possible.

    According to Dürheimer, the next 911 won't make sales floors until late 2011, but we expect to see much more of the car from spy photographers as it develops."

    http://www.motorauthority.com/spy-shots-998-porsche-911-test-mule.html


    --

     

    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia



    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    What are these large lumps on the back bumper? In the white part it looks like camera lenses. Testing the camera's to replace side mirrors?

    Click to enlarge the pic of the rear in this site & you can see it better /interesting:

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/porsche-911-2011.html

    --

    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia



    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    That's exactly what I was thinking - though I'm not sure how feasible that really is.  Could be cool though...

    Also, the interior of the car is very dark - almost like the rear (interior) is obstructed.

    I wasn't going to post my thoughts because they are so outlandish, but here they are anyway...

    I know I'm way off in left field here, but I am "feeling" like this is a full electric car - with lots and lots of battery space.  On one of the other pics (front quarter) I think the brake caliper almost looks like a magnetic energy capturing brake, plus (possibly) an individual per-wheel electric motor.  If this is true, this is essentially not a 911...

    Rear exhausts also look a little "fakey" to me too - which they would be if this was full electric vs. hybrid.

    Again - I admit I'm probably WAY off base here, but who knows?  That's what I've been looking to see from Porshe next - maybe that's why I'm jumping to conclusions a little.  I think that the internal combusion engine is fading away, and was surprised to see Porshe putting out a newly re-designed engine in the 997.2

    I'm probably wrong - especially because the photo spies would have noticed a lack of sound from the car.  We will find out eventually.


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    An all electric 911 is not happening anytime soon. Too expensive to develop and the car would be too heavy amongst several issues. 

    Those bumps on the rear could well be cameras being tested to the final location would be where the side mirrors are on the 997. Can't have cameras on the bumper like that.


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    Good eyes Smiley.  They look like exhaust pipes to me.  Could be that the real exhausts in the bottom are fake ones Smiley.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    Could this simply be the upcoming 997 Turbo S?


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    FSU-997TT:

    Could this simply be the upcoming 997 Turbo S?

    NO,   the turbo S version must  have air intakes at the side..  and this one they  did  fake exactly to makes us think this is a turbo version or something similar of a 997.2 TT

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    I dont and I wont believe that the next 911 will be based on the 996 body again. Unfortunatley this camoflaged car loks to much ready compared from that what we know from Porsche. Thinking that the 911 is 2 years awayand comparing what we know from the 997.2 and Panamera, the mules should be on the way already in a 80% way.

    I would be terribly dissapointed if Porsche is taking that Body again and just will come up with another "small" evolution. What we know from History should be going up, means max. 2 Models based on the same platform. What do you guys think?


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    Lars997:

    I dont and I wont believe that the next 911 will be based on the 996 body again. Unfortunatley this camoflaged car loks to much ready compared from that what we know from Porsche. Thinking that the 911 is 2 years awayand comparing what we know from the 997.2 and Panamera, the mules should be on the way already in a 80% way.

    I would be terribly dissapointed if Porsche is taking that Body again and just will come up with another "small" evolution. What we know from History should be going up, means max. 2 Models based on the same platform. What do you guys think?

    i don't think we're looking at a 911 period here, haha but that's just me.

    Seriously though, i agree with you.. i'd like to see something new but it is very hard realizing as we know porsche... very small evolutions and we know the 911 history.. very small evolutions.. but why ask for a whole new thing? If it's not broken why fix it? A completely new 911 would not be a 911 but some other porsche by nature. Isn't the 911 defined by its unique styling and close relationship to precessors? the 996 was a huge jump and many don't like that fact.

    just thinking out loud. I'd love to see a new flatform, but the thing can't grow!! 911 are small!!! please don't make it even heavier and put more technology in there. What i don't understand is why porshce doesn't make a cheap sporty 911 with NO options and at the same time won't ask $50,000 bucks more for it. I'm not talking GT3 here as it has more hp and whatnot... im talking carrera S with NO options, sport exhaust, sport suspension and a wheel and a 6 speed!! a hardcore cheapo version!!! maybe call it GT4 ;)


    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    It's the 991, but it is based on a new 8 cylinder mid-engine format for more power and better, more neutral, handling.  No rear seats, the space instead will be used for more storage.  Anybody who needs 4 seats in a Porsche car can now get the Panamera.  The 991 may appear to overlap with the Boxster/Cayman, as they both will be mid-engined but the Boxster/Cayman will now be more easily differentiated from it's more expensive 911 style brother by having only six cylinders, whereas the 991 will have eight.  This will make a lot more sense to buyers instead of both model lines being based on six cylinders with miniscule displacement difference.
    --
    2005 997S Blk/Blk

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    davew (cincy):

    Also, the interior of the car is very dark - almost like the rear (interior) is obstructed.

    There's a reason why the interior is dark.  It's a new mid-engine based 991.  No rear seats.

    --
    2005 997S Blk/Blk

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    I guess those responsible for the camo at Weissach just got a very friendly tap on their shoulders. Smiley
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    RC:
    I guess those responsible for the camo at Weissach just got a very friendly tap on their shoulders. Smiley
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Smiley Smiley Smiley SmileySmileySmileySmiley

    This is so funny! Smiley


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    SoCal Alan:
    It's the 991, but it is based on a new 8 cylinder mid-engine format for more power and better, more neutral, handling.  No rear seats, the space instead will be used for more storage.  Anybody who needs 4 seats in a Porsche car can now get the Panamera.  The 991 may appear to overlap with the Boxster/Cayman, as they both will be mid-engined but the Boxster/Cayman will now be more easily differentiated from it's more expensive 911 style brother by having only six cylinders, whereas the 991 will have eight.  This will make a lot more sense to buyers instead of both model lines being based on six cylinders with miniscule displacement difference.
    --
    2005 997S Blk/Blk
    Judging by the dimensions I too think that Porsche has gone for eight cylinders as the 6 cylinder block has pretty much reached its maximum capacity. On the other hand the new 911 won't be mid-engined, there's the Cayman. Rear engine configuration and the 911 are inseparable, the day porsche change the configuration is the day the 911 dies since a midengine car doesn't possess the same driving characteristics.

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    In the EVO article where they test drove the 997 MKI - NOT MKII - for the first time (roughly 3 years ago) they had an article about Porsche's future timeline, and in it it said by 2011 or 2012 there would be a "mini- CGT" mid engined car available.

    This looks like it is it. 


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    I hope your right Alan!

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    SoCal Alan:
    It's the 991, but it is based on a new 8 cylinder mid-engine format for more power and better, more neutral, handling.  No rear seats, the space instead will be used for more storage.  Anybody who needs 4 seats in a Porsche car can now get the Panamera.  The 991 may appear to overlap with the Boxster/Cayman, as they both will be mid-engined but the Boxster/Cayman will now be more easily differentiated from it's more expensive 911 style brother by having only six cylinders, whereas the 991 will have eight.  This will make a lot more sense to buyers instead of both model lines being based on six cylinders with miniscule displacement difference.
    --
    2005 997S Blk/Blk

     

    Next 911 mid engined?  That sure does make a ton of sense. I'd buy that way before believing this is a new front engined model. Matter of fact it would make the 991 much more attractive as a sports car w/ an 8 & better handling. Also a great way to kill the competition. 6 cylinder front engined GTR what's ya gonna do?  Kill 2 birds w/ one stone. Not having small back seats would kinda suck but it woule be  worth the trade-off.  


    --

     

    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    They should have just matched the cammo that was on the 997.1 turbo just prior to its reveal (remeber some thought/hoped it would be the true style?) - then we all would have thought it was a turbo.

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    Ron (Houston):

    Good eyes Smiley.  They look like exhaust pipes to me.  Could be that the real exhausts in the bottom are fake ones Smiley.


    --
    Happy Driving

    If you click & enlarge the picture on the bottom right in this link you can see it better. Really looks like camera lenses:

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/porsche-911-2011.html

     

     



    --

     

    08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    SoCal Alan:
    It's the 991, but it is based on a new 8 cylinder mid-engine format for more power and better, more neutral, handling.  No rear seats, the space instead will be used for more storage.  Anybody who needs 4 seats in a Porsche car can now get the Panamera.  The 991 may appear to overlap with the Boxster/Cayman, as they both will be mid-engined but the Boxster/Cayman will now be more easily differentiated from it's more expensive 911 style brother by having only six cylinders, whereas the 991 will have eight.  This will make a lot more sense to buyers instead of both model lines being based on six cylinders with miniscule displacement difference.
    --
    2005 997S Blk/Blk

    That would mean the end of the 911 Smiley Bad moove ! Does not make sence to me.

    I would not buy the car if it had an 8 cyl nor if it would not have the back seats .

    Look at the new M3. Since they droped the 6 in line for the V8, their sales droped a lot !

    Look at the AUdi RS4, they are also comming back to a V6  ( supercharged)

    V8 does not belong in a small sports car


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    I agree, that makes no sense at all, if its mid-engined, 8cyl, and no rear seats then there is nothing 911 about it, just like a mid-engined 2 seater V10 would not be an M3 BMW, it would be a different model BMW.

    And like Gnil, if the rear seats go, I won't be buying one either, otherwise I'd be driving a 997GT3 instead of a 997S-20mm.

    So this could very well be a mid-engined 8 cyl Porsche they are testing inside a 911 camo body shell, but would not have anything to do with the 911future line up, it would be another model. And Porsche engineers have said before that there is no 8 cyl planned for the 911 in the future, engine evolutions would come through lighter weight materials, DFI, etc.


    --

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    What would be the point of removing the back seats in the new 911? They already have the Cayman.

     I can see though a bigger 911/smaller Panamera coupe with bigger back seats than the 997 and better performance than the Panamera.


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    if they just change the flat 6  to a      flat 8 and still rear engine,  i will sure buyt it

     

    imagine a flat8   with less weight than the previous flat 6???

    it would be good!

     


    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    If this '998' mule is mid-engine config. we would be looking at the rear end of PDK gearbox , which looks like this :

    Re: 998 Turbo - Spy shots Thread Closed

    ... to me , it's rear engine - new 911

     
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