Crown

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    A few facts for Nick

    But before I post them, it has to be clear that I like the F430 and I think it is a great car. Just want to "repay" Nick for his brainless gossip talk.

    And now the FACTS:

    The new Ferrari F430 has around 70% new parts compared to the F360 Modena.
    Comparison: the new Porsche 997 Carrera S has more than 80% new parts compared to the 996 Carrera 2.
    The F430 shares the doors, the front hood and the roof with the F360.
    The 997 Carrera S has not one single body part in common with the 996, not even the roof as some people mentioned.

    I also talked to somebody who had recently the chance to actually drive the F430 F1. He was very fascinated by the F430 and he says that this car is "lightyears" ahead from the F360. But it also feels less "connected" to the street, the F360 had more "purity" in it. This guy compared the new F430 to the same change as the 996 Turbo compared to the 993 Turbo. He claims that the F430 is very easy to drive fast but this also makes it a little bit less challenging and cuts off a little bit of the fun. It seems that the new electronic traction control system has to do with that new feeling but turning it off requires a very very good driver.
    He also mentioned that after his F430 testdrive, he heard some rumours about the upcoming F430 Challenge Stradale. Power around 525 HP, no electronic traction system, no electronic suspension system and the ceramic compound brake as a standard option. Price tag beyond good and evil of course.

    Another interesting fact: Ferrari plans to produce and sell more than 2000(!) F430 in the first year of production.
    Exclusive car?
    Another fact: the engine of the F430 is produced on the same production line where the Maserati engines are produced.

    I have more but I have to keep a few things for myself to be able to argue with you.

    Good night, Nick.

    BTW: Ferrari has a special F1 engineering unit but the engineers who work for "normal" production are also involved in F1 development sometimes. So if you're "impressed" that F1 engineers were directly involved in F430 development...

    Note: I'm not trying to bash the F430 as I mentioned before, I just want to take off Nick's pink (not red!) Ferrari eye glasses by using arguments instead of pure bashing gossip as he likes to use when bashin Porsches on the Porsche forums.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Uhhh - I see some trouble on the way...

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Rc you raise some valid points. Rather than directly responded I thought this quote form Auto car magazine in their review of the F430 would suffice;

    Ferrari might have laid on the racing heritage with a trowell, but after the 430 every other manufacturer's efforts to play to a sporting heritage will look like pitiable fakery/color]

    No much more needs to be said. RC get in line and own one. Expand your driving experience and develop an understanding as to why Ferrari's are in demand.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    "he heard some rumours about the upcoming F430 Challenge Stradale. Power around 525 HP, no electronic traction system, no electronic suspension system and the ceramic compound brake as a standard option"

    is the CS coming??? my dealer will still not take my order.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    watt: a couple days ago italiaspeed mentioned, for the second time, a 575 stradale coming in '05. If a 430CS also is coming ...

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Rc you raise some valid points. Rather than directly responded I thought this quote form Auto car magazine in their review of the F430 would suffice;

    Ferrari might have laid on the racing heritage with a trowell, but after the 430 every other manufacturer's efforts to play to a sporting heritage will look like pitiable fakery/color]

    No much more needs to be said. RC get in line and own one. Expand your driving experience and develop an understanding as to why Ferrari's are in demand.


    ???this is your reply nick to the facts rc gave???how poor...you should have taken more time with your reply and get some facts...

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    RC said:

    And now the FACTS:

    The new Ferrari F430 has around 70% new parts compared to the F360 Modena.
    Comparison: the new Porsche 997 Carrera S has more than 80% new parts compared to the 996 Carrera 2.
    The F430 shares the doors, the front hood and the roof with the F360.
    The 997 Carrera S has not one single body part in common with the 996, not even the roof as some people mentioned.

    I also talked to somebody who had recently the chance to actually drive the F430 F1. He was very fascinated by the F430 and he says that this car is "lightyears" ahead from the F360. But it also feels less "connected" to the street, the F360 had more "purity" in it. This guy compared the new F430 to the same change as the 996 Turbo compared to the 993 Turbo. He claims that the F430 is very easy to drive fast but this also makes it a little bit less challenging and cuts off a little bit of the fun. It seems that the new electronic traction control system has to do with that new feeling but turning it off requires a very very good driver.
    He also mentioned that after his F430 testdrive, he heard some rumours about the upcoming F430 Challenge Stradale. Power around 525 HP, no electronic traction system, no electronic suspension system and the ceramic compound brake as a standard option. Price tag beyond good and evil of course.

    Another interesting fact: Ferrari plans to produce and sell more than 2000(!) F430 in the first year of production.
    Exclusive car?
    Another fact: the engine of the F430 is produced on the same production line where the Maserati engines are produced.

    I have more but I have to keep a few things for myself to be able to argue with you.

    Good night, Nick.

    BTW: Ferrari has a special F1 engineering unit but the engineers who work for "normal" production are also involved in F1 development sometimes. So if you're "impressed" that F1 engineers were directly involved in F430 development...

    Note: I'm not trying to bash the F430 as I mentioned before, I just want to take off Nick's pink (not red!) Ferrari eye glasses by using arguments instead of pure bashing gossip as he likes to use when bashin Porsches on the Porsche forums.



    1) The F430 may have less new parts, but it's not a totally new car, Ferrari never said it was. But the new 911 is totally new, but it looks the SAME as any 911. And I have read the roof IS the same.

    2)The drive is one persons opinion, probably a Porsche owner. I have read a few tests so far on the F430, all are great, some say it's the best road Ferrari ever. No Porsche will ever offer the driving experience of a Ferrari IMO.

    3)2000 cars a year is still VERY low numbers, espially compared to the 10's of thousands of 911s on the road.

    4)We knew the F430 engine was going to be made along side the Maserati engine, Ferrari made that production line for them with the knowledge they would use it as well, remember who owns Maserati.

    5)There was actual F1 engineers used on the F430 systems, I read it on Ferraris website and from what I heard it was said at the Fiorano debut. Plus I know some road car engineers used to work on the F1 team.

    6)I like the 911 alot, but it's no F car :-).

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Rc you raise some valid points. Rather than directly responded I thought this quote form Auto car magazine in their review of the F430 would suffice;

    Ferrari might have laid on the racing heritage with a trowell, but after the 430 every other manufacturer's efforts to play to a sporting heritage will look like pitiable fakery/color]

    No much more needs to be said. RC get in line and own one. Expand your driving experience and develop an understanding as to why Ferrari's are in demand.


    ???this is your reply nick to the facts rc gave???how poor...you should have taken more time with your reply and get some facts...



    I was trying to be nice. The gull of anyone trying to compare a 997S with a Ferrari does not deserve a response. Why should I elevate the 997 by comparing it to the F430?

    RC was being clever but I will not bit. He should focus is attention to trying to sell the 997 because it is running into very serious problems in the US. The public is not liking it.

    BTW, I see you are in Beruit, Lebanon. You should behave or I will ask my cousin Nabih get after you.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    1) The F430 may have less new parts, but it's not a totally new car, Ferrari never said it was. But the new 911 is totally new, but it looks the SAME as any 911. And I have read the roof IS the same.



    Well, my wife couldn't tell the difference between the F360 and F430 when I showed her the pics.
    Of course all 911 have to look like a 911, this is the secret behind it's success. And the roof is not the same.

    Quote:

    2)The drive is one persons opinion, probably a Porsche owner. I have read a few tests so far on the F430, all are great, some say it's the best road Ferrari ever. No Porsche will ever offer the driving experience of a Ferrari IMO.



    You sound like somebody who drove a lot of Ferrari and Porsches, right?
    The best road Ferrari ever? I might agree. But I can name several car magazines around the world who claim that the new 911 is the best road sportscar ever built for that money. Doesn't say much to me. I drove several Ferraris but none of them feels like a Porsche. And this is exactly the problem Ferrari always had with their cars and one reason why they usually are much slower than Porsche cars on the track. When have you driven a Porsche lately?
    Or "just" a Ferrari?

    Quote:

    3)2000 cars a year is still VERY low numbers, espially compared to the 10's of thousands of 911s on the road.



    2000 cars in the FIRST year of production. How many 996 Turbo did Porsche produce in the first year of production?

    Quote:

    4)We knew the F430 engine was going to be made along side the Maserati engine, Ferrari made that production line for them with the knowledge they would use it as well, remember who owns Maserati.



    I remember very well who owns Ferrari.

    Quote:

    5)There was actual F1 engineers used on the F430 systems, I read it on Ferraris website and from what I heard it was said at the Fiorano debut. Plus I know some road car engineers used to work on the F1 team.



    I know my English isn't always good but I thought I made it quite understandable what I meant.

    Quote:

    6)I like the 911 alot, but it's no F car :-).



    What do you like about Ferrari? The design? The engine/exhaust sound? Because when it comes to performance...well...

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    He should focus is attention to trying to sell the 997 because it is running into very serious problems in the US. The public is not liking it.



    Why should I sell my 997 Carrera S, a 355 HP car which easily outperforms the F360 on any track and which has the same 0-125 mph performance figure for a lot of money less.
    And look what my little 3-year old sweetheart has to say about this, this picture is REAL, no special posing for this thread. I swear!!! When we visited the Ferrari Days in Baden Baden, my little girl sat with her b.tt on them.

    The public in the US doesn't like the 997? Interesting.
    Make this statement in the german press and I bet it will sell like hell over here.
    But to be serious: I couldn't care more who likes the 997 or not, I don't build it and I don't earn money with it.
    The most important thing for me is driving fun. And the 997 provides a handfull of this for a pretty interesting price tag compared to other sportscars.
    The lesser cars on the street, the better for me.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    1) The F430 may have less new parts, but it's not a totally new car, Ferrari never said it was. But the new 911 is totally new, but it looks the SAME as any 911. And I have read the roof IS the same.



    Well, my wife couldn't tell the difference between the F360 and F430 when I showed her the pics.
    Of course all 911 have to look like a 911, this is the secret behind it's success. And the roof is not the same.

    Quote:

    2)The drive is one persons opinion, probably a Porsche owner. I have read a few tests so far on the F430, all are great, some say it's the best road Ferrari ever. No Porsche will ever offer the driving experience of a Ferrari IMO.



    You sound like somebody who drove a lot of Ferrari and Porsches, right?
    The best road Ferrari ever? I might agree. But I can name several car magazines around the world who claim that the new 911 is the best road sportscar ever built for that money. Doesn't say much to me. I drove several Ferraris but none of them feels like a Porsche. And this is exactly the problem Ferrari always had with their cars and one reason why they usually are much slower than Porsche cars on the track. When have you driven a Porsche lately?
    Or "just" a Ferrari?

    Quote:

    3)2000 cars a year is still VERY low numbers, espially compared to the 10's of thousands of 911s on the road.



    2000 cars in the FIRST year of production. How many 996 Turbo did Porsche produce in the first year of production?

    Quote:

    4)We knew the F430 engine was going to be made along side the Maserati engine, Ferrari made that production line for them with the knowledge they would use it as well, remember who owns Maserati.



    I remember very well who owns Ferrari.

    Quote:

    5)There was actual F1 engineers used on the F430 systems, I read it on Ferraris website and from what I heard it was said at the Fiorano debut. Plus I know some road car engineers used to work on the F1 team.



    I know my English isn't always good but I thought I made it quite understandable what I meant.

    Quote:

    6)I like the 911 alot, but it's no F car :-).



    What do you like about Ferrari? The design? The engine/exhaust sound? Because when it comes to performance...well...



    Wow you sure are a real P fanboy lol.
    I have driven many a 911 (about 6) and a F355, and a 360 Modena

    Amyone who thinks a P "feels" better then a Ferrari has been sorely mislead. The 996TT "feels" better to a inferior driver due to its boring AWD. The F vs P war will never end.......lol.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    He should focus is attention to trying to sell the 997 because it is running into very serious problems in the US. The public is not liking it.



    Why should I sell my 997 Carrera S, a 355 HP car which easily outperforms the F360 on any track and which has the same 0-125 mph performance figure for a lot of money less.
    And look what my little 3-year old sweetheart has to say about this, this picture is REAL, no special posing for this thread. I swear!!! When we visited the Ferrari Days in Baden Baden, my little girl sat with her b.tt on them.

    The public in the US doesn't like the 997? Interesting.
    Make this statement in the german press and I bet it will sell like hell over here.
    But to be serious: I couldn't care more who likes the 997 or not, I don't build it and I don't earn money with it.
    The most important thing for me is driving fun. And the 997 provides a handfull of this for a pretty interesting price tag compared to other sportscars.
    The lesser cars on the street, the better for me.



    Well I never said I didn't like the 997S. I think it is a great car, BUT the F430 is a much better car IMO. But even though the cars are "compared" they are in a different price bracket.....by the way, adorable kid.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:But the new 911 is totally new, but it looks the SAME as any 911.



    But you see, that is an asset, there is no car in the market that can claim say the same thing, with 40 years of tradition and heritage and still outperforms the competiton to this day can the F430 say the same thing? no, the F430 NEEDS to look new and different

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    by the way, adorable kid.




    Thank you. And believe it or not but she also recognizes Ferrari cars...as long as they're red.
    This picture is also one of my favorites...

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:But the new 911 is totally new, but it looks the SAME as any 911.



    But you see, that is an asset, there is no car in the market that can claim say the same thing, with 40 years of tradition and heritage and still outperforms the competiton to this day can the F430 say the same thing? no, the F430 NEEDS to look new and different



    Well to each there own......but I like some change....as much as I like the 911 the 997 just looks TOOOOO similar for me.......not aggressive enough....IMO.....BUT better then the 996....hated those head lamps.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    by the way, adorable kid.




    Thank you. And believe it or not but she also recognizes Ferrari cars...as long as they're red.
    This picture is also one of my favorites...





    Do all kids in Germany have that black bar? lol just kiddin....nice shirt haha.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Nice picture RC.

    Gorgeous looking chick and a beautiful car

    I nominate it for the picture of the month .

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    The public in the US doesn't like the 997? Interesting.
    Make this statement in the german press and I bet it will sell like hell over here.




    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Well to each there own......but I like some change....as much as I like the 911 the 997 just looks TOOOOO similar for me.


    You're missing the point: IT'S STILL THE SAME CAR. Called 911. Of course a 911 looks like a 911, what did you expect?
    On the other hand, F360 and F430 are two different cars. Why do they look so similar?

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    very nice pic rc,very cute girl ,do we have a new michele mouton??coz she seems to like your passion..

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Well to each there own......but I like some change....as much as I like the 911 the 997 just looks TOOOOO similar for me.


    You're missing the point: IT'S STILL THE SAME CAR. Called 911. Of course a 911 looks like a 911, what did you expect?
    On the other hand, F360 and F430 are two different cars. Why do they look so similar?




    Who told you the 360 and F430 were different cars???? It's a big update. Remember F uses numbers that correspond to engine displacement, so the updated car can't be called a 360 with a 4.3 liter engine....hence F430....

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    He should focus is attention to trying to sell the 997 because it is running into very serious problems in the US. The public is not liking it.



    Why should I sell my 997 Carrera S, a 355 HP car which easily outperforms the F360 on any track and which has the same 0-125 mph performance figure for a lot of money less.
    And look what my little 3-year old sweetheart has to say about this, this picture is REAL, no special posing for this thread. I swear!!! When we visited the Ferrari Days in Baden Baden, my little girl sat with her b.tt on them.





    When was the last time you had your car on a track? You and I know very few people track their cars yet Porsche has made over a Billion Euro's selling the concept it is a great track car ( for now I will ignore that Porsche will void the warranty should something happen while tracking the P-car ). It is like selling an electrical appliance to a person who does not have electicity. If Porsche is anything, it is great marketing and salesmanship.

    As one person wrote in his review of the 997S and its civilized manner; "it is not about excitement but the quest for perfection". Do you know or understand the difference? Obviously Porsche engineers do not.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    When was the last time you had your car on a track? You and I know very few people track their cars yet Porsche has made over a Billion Euro's selling the concept it is a great track car ( for now I will ignore that Porsche will void the warranty should something happen while tracking the P-car ). It is like selling an electrical appliance to a person who does not have electicity. If Porsche is anything, it is great marketing and salesmanship.




    1. I was a few weeks ago on the track...with the 997 Carrera S. The only reason I didn't post it was because I achieved a certain time (Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs) and the microdrive in my camera didn't work anymore (this happens when kids drop it on the floor... ) and I didn't want people to start asking about pictures because it would have hurt my credibility. Time was 1 min 23 sec for the Kleiner Kurs, this is around 8 seconds slowlier than the time SPORT AUTO achieved but it is still faster than some times achieved in official Clubsport events by 996 Turbos and Ferrari Challenge Stradale. I did only three laps, the first two were actually warming up laps, the last one could have worked out a little better for me if I would have turned off the PSM completely. I'm afraid I was a coward because I didn't want to do it due to my limited time (only 4000 km) in the 997 Carrera S and especially the first track time.
    There also were a few cars on the track and I had to be careful, my ego isn't big enough to risk damaging my car for nothing.

    2. there was a track event on the Nordschleife last weekend where a black 997 Carrera S (same car as mine, 20 mm chassis, PCCB) participated and he made some GT3 and other nice cars... look pretty bad. My dealer monitors this forum, he can confirm it. Of course it has to do with driving skills too but remember, the 997 Carrera S is not Porsche's top 911 model, just somehow one of the "entry" models.

    3. we don't need the track performance capability of a Porsche on the track only. Ask our co-editor CR who owns a Ferrari F355 and a 996 Turbo what car he prefers when it comes to have REAL fun regarding performance.

    4. the fantastic thing about a Porsche is the fact that you can use it as a daily driver and at the same time on the track too. Somehow a swiss army knife among sportscars.
    And of course there is no bling bling factor which makes people hate you for the car you own (not that this really matters... ).

    Maybe I should start again comparing cars to women (sorry ladies, I'm not really a chauvinist... ):
    some prefer Pamela Anderson where you feel good to see her, touch her and be seen with her and some prefer a woman which looks beautiful, without too much b..bs, a little bit less "behind" but still sexy and of course she's knows how to cook well, to take care of the children and at night, she gives you the hell of a ride. And now I shut up before I have to delete my own post.

    Appearance isn't everything, Nick.
    To give you a last example: there was this young guy in my hotel in Fort Lauderdale who looked pretty similar to myself, wearing jeans and a long shirt (Cuban style... ).
    He was also a little bit dark coloured, apparently of latin or arab origin and he only had a watch on him, nothing else, no chain, rings, etc. I was watching him because I was waiting at the reception desk to ask something.
    And there was this business man who had this huge gold watch, a nice neck chain and two huge rings, almost as big as the Cayenne key. He was dressed very nicely, apparently Armani, his hair was done with hair gel and he looked pretty "important". He was speaking pretty loud and he tried to "hit" on the nice woman at the reception.
    She actually seemed to like it and they didn't stop talking.
    The guy behind him, the one in the jeans, asked her kindly to hurry up because he needed to call somebody by phone.
    The woman at the reception looked pretty angry to him and told him "would you please stay back, sir, this is confidential..." I almost started laughing. The guy in the nice suite put out his credit card, something gold, don't know which one and they finished pretty fast the whole thing. The young guy in jeans approached the woman, she was still not smiling at all and they started talking. At the same time, my wife called at the reception and the woman passed me the phone after she realized that I am the guy the woman on the phone wants to speak to. I was standing only half a meter away from the young guy in jeans. Meanwhile, the receptionist asked this young man for his credit card. He took out his card...an American Express Centurion card. You should have seen the face of that woman, it changed instantly, like she had pressed a button. Incredible. And she could even smile for him.

    Long story, short meaning: appearances don't mean anything and although I have to confess that I love beautiful things too in life, I set priorities, especially regarding cars.
    And as I'm not a man of bling bling, I'm a technical type of guy. I have a laptop in almost every room of the house, even in the car. I use various gizmos, not to speak about various digital cameras for various occasions. I need that, I love it and I couldn't care less about appearances.
    Some people buy Stereos, TVs and even Computers by design and looks. I never bought Bang & Olufsen because I pay half the price for looks only.

    I would surely own a Ferrari if I had the money to own several sportscars, no doubt about it. But first comes Porsche, because it serves my needs and character and then, I would buy the Lamborghini Murcielago because I'm still in love with this beast. It offers italian style combined with german perfection and aggressive looks.

    Again: unlikely of what you always do regarding Porsche and the 911, I really don't have much to criticize about Ferrari because in my opinion, they build a different kind of sports car. Same applies to Aston Martin, their cars can't be compared to Porsche or Ferrari. They build them for a different type of customer.

    And now I go to sleep, I have to work to be able to drive a 911 "only".

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    very nice pic rc,very cute girl ,do we have a new michele mouton??coz she seems to like your passion..



    She really loves cars but only sportscars.
    Look at this picture, she was only 20 months old at the time I took it.
    This is why I'm really mad at Porsche because they don't yet offer the airbag deactivation kit for the 997, she always wants to drive with me but it is somehow no fun for her to sit in the rear alone.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    RC said:

    They all build a different kind of sports car.

    They all build them for a different type of customer.



    Now that's a great point.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    ...Remember F uses numbers that correspond to engine displacement, so the updated car can't be called a 360 with a 4.3 liter engine....hence F430....



    Never knew that. Actually learned something from this thread.

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    RC you kids are adorable

    ha

    and long live Porsche

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    She broke my heart...

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    BTW, I see you are in Beruit, Lebanon. You should behave or I will ask my cousin Nabih get after you.


    loooolll ,really ?nabih is your cousin??this means you are lebanese??

    Re: A few facts for Nick

    Quote:
    brunner said:

    On the other hand, F360 and F430 are two different cars. Why do they look so similar?



    Both are still called Modena! I'm sorry but Ferrari makes the best looking cars ever. Nothing says bling-bling more than Ferrari! Plus, women love it.

    RC, if your wife can't tell the difference between F360 and the F430, then I would like you to know that my girlfriend can't till the difference between the SL and the new SLK.
    Also,I don't why you freak out whenever someone says something negative about Porsche?

    Come on guys! Do we really need to have endless arguments about who is a better? If you like F then go and buy one, and if you like P then go get one too.

     
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