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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:

     Together with a new thermal management system for the turbo engine

    This must be what RC was referring to when he said that thermal issues have been sorted, the statement doesn't tell us much, I am looking forward to some details  

    I may deliver some details as soon as I put my hands on the technical documentation (which I still don't have... Smiley).

    The press is getting more and more information now, so I guess there won't be much surprises left anymore when I actually get my hands on that brochure.

    Anyway: Look at the data we provided a couple of weeks ago and what the press delivered. I think we did a pretty good job for a private, non-commercial, non-officially supported site.  Smiley  Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    They talked about there being less room for the cooling channels in the rear arches which sounds like using the old intercooler set up would be more difficult so what exactly is this "new thermal management system" are they using water cooled intercoolers or something radical (given Porsche's history of air air coolers) like that ? Intriguing 


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    Dunlop UHP tires are officially approved for 991 Turbo/Turbo S models.

    Forget Porsche configurator. You will be able to get additional set of wheels with Dunlpo UHP tires from your Porsche dealer soon.

    Smiley Exactly. The same Dunlop UHP approved for the 991 GT3 is also already approved for the 991 Turbo/Turbo S. Only street tire approved right now seems to be the Pirelli PZero. I heard that Bridgestone and Michelin tires are still in the evaluation process.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    . In a comparison with my Panamera Turbo S, we were absolutely head to head up to 180 kph a couple of times (from standstill) Smiley

    Well i had when my gt2 was still stok a few Occasion to run against pana Turbo s on Highway. But the panamera was really no match, for my stoke 997gt2.  races 100kmh-260kmh the gt2 was easily faster...    Since i am running now a tune with around 650Hp+ (posted, v-box results already) i cant compare anymore..


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Stock 997 GT2 was tested at 0-100 kph in 3.7 seconds and 0-200 kph in 11.5 seconds. We did some runs from standstill up to 180 kph (faster wasn't possible since there was a 120 kph speed limit afterwards and this was the only street we could do it from standstill) and we were head to head, there was no difference. Even considering that my Panamera Turbo S was in a pretty good shape (special turbo charger setup from factory due to the titanium turbo charger issue), there is no way the GT2 is similar in performance to the 991 Turbo S. I can see an advantage at speeds over 250 kph but below that, no way.

    Like you, many 997 GT2 drivers chip tuned their car to 580 hp or more (with hardware mods), so there is really no way to tell if the customer car in the review was stock. I also don't get the point to compare the 991 Turbo S to the 997 GT2.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Not sure if this has been posted before, a video review in Italian (with English subtitles...you need to activate them!!!).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVGAzGHDvcs

    Regarding the Nissan GT-R comment at the end of the video: Sport Auto tested TWO different Nissan GT-R (latest model) and both did 0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds. Nissan's 2.7 seconds claim is a myth, a joke.

    Another 991 Turbo S driving video (French):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EggFTYcHBY

    More:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD3VnBkNzi4

    Another one (in German...very interesting):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu10WP6oXNo

    Again...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiJB3A8J0FY

    (the comments to this video can be found here...in German: http://auto-diva.de/2013/der-neue-porsche-911-turbo-s-auf-dem-bilster-berg/ )

    Last videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52rV71ggKQU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMFB-S3xXds

    I'm not sure why Porsche chose Bilster Berg for the presentation but... Smiley

    Very interesting if you speak Spanish:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O82_GDDp3GM


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ozQWb-QQUU

     

    now i wanna speak this language ,,, Spanish  maybe 

     

    but 58 min ... and we didnt see the car ... !!!!! this guy love to talk Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    After watching all these videos I think the 991 Turbo sounds (from the inside) like a 991 Carrera with a deactivated PSE, which is not bad.  Could be better, but not bad.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    TB993tt:

     Together with a new thermal management system for the turbo engine

    This must be what RC was referring to when he said that thermal issues have been sorted, the statement doesn't tell us much, I am looking forward to some details  

    I may deliver some details as soon as I put my hands on the technical documentation (which I still don't have... Smiley).

    The press is getting more and more information now, so I guess there won't be much surprises left anymore when I actually get my hands on that brochure.

    Anyway: Look at the data we provided a couple of weeks ago and what the press delivered. I think we did a pretty good job for a private, non-commercial, non-officially supported site.  Smiley  Smiley

    You and Kreso F1 did fantastic job!!!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    TomSilver:

    After watching all these videos I think the 991 Turbo sounds (from the inside) like a 991 Carrera with a deactivated PSE, which is not bad.  Could be better, but not bad.

     

    I agree, while that might be a good thing, I suspect it will even better with the sports button on.  We have to wait for real life reviews.

    I think the 991TT sounds the way it should, an evolution over a revolution. As much as some of us tend to believe, in my opinion this is no exotic car at the end of the day. The 991 is a very fast, agile, every day sports car. There is nothing, I mean nothing, that comes close to its sheer perfection and capabilities, while still be for every day use. Even the looks, its all calculated to create emotions while keeping your day to day routine on check. Its like the woman you marry and have kids with 


    --

     

    2014 991 Turbo (on order, Nov Prod)
    2012 991 C2S w/Fabspeed SOLD
    2011 Ferrari 458 Italia Rosso Mondiale / cuoio
    2011 Turbo S Cab SOLD
    2010 BMW AH7 
    2010 Caddy Escalade
    2006 Cayman S First P car, SOLD

     



    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Not sure about the overboost duration but it could be possible. Also it should be noted that the overboost can be re-activated immediately after just releasing the throttle and then fully applying it again. This is how people can actually gain performance, especially when on the Autobahn. I always did that with my Panamera Turbo S and it worked like a charm. Most drivers just accept that the overboost is gone and keep full throttle without realizing that releasing the throttle only very little and even for a fraction of a second only, re-activates the overboost.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    TomSilver:

    After watching all these videos I think the 991 Turbo sounds (from the inside) like a 991 Carrera with a deactivated PSE, which is not bad.  Could be better, but not bad.

     

    From the inside, the sound is just perfect, you really don't want more on a daily driver.

    From the outside, the loud whoosh will attract some attention but it won't provoke those well known middle fingers or fists some of us in Germany are used to when fully accelerating in a city environment with PSE fully activated on a 997 or 991 Carrera.

    There is also still the option of a third party aftermarket exhaust system (Akrapovic, Cargraphic, whatever...) if the sound isn't enough but I think that most Europeans will keep the stock exhaust for obvious reasons.

    It would have been great if Porsche would have offered the option to get a sport exhaust from the factory, even at a substantial premium but I heard they tried various sport exhaust developments and while there was one option with a titanium exhaust, saving some additional weight, the sound improvement was minimal to justify the extreme price tag which would have been required to ask from customers, so they abandoned any PSE project as far as I heard. The issue seems to be the VTG chargers and specific environmental/sound emission laws, which they apparently cannot fullfill as a mass manufacturer. Third party after market manufacturers have less strict regulations to comply with, so they can do the job better. Sad but true.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC,

    This may be a crazy question to ask (or possibly premature) but given you had a Panamera Turbo S and have driven the new 911 Turbo S (you have, yes, or did you just see them in Germany?) could you possibly compare a little bit what the normal daily driving is like between the two?  I fully get the 911 is better in the twisties, etc. but I'm talking about riding around town running errands, cruising on highways at "normal" speeds (i.e. speeds that most of us in the world can legally drive at), etc.  What riding characteristics are the same/different between these two?  If you haven't had a chance to drive the 991 Turbo S yet (for some reason I'm thinking you have, though) maybe you can comment next month once you take delivery?

    Thanks,
    Keith


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    The differences are simple to point out:

    1. 991 Turbo S feels much lighter and more nimble than the Panamera Turbo S, even when driving straight and/or at slower speeds only

    2. The steering oft the Turbo S feels more direct and more "connected" (can't say if the car had the "Plus" steering but my PTS had)

    3. The ride of the 991 Turbo S feels less comfy (chassis is quite connected and "moving" less) but actually the comfort is better since the dampers seem to work less (it is difficult to explain)

    Overall, the 991 Turbo S feels like a smaller, much lighter car but I cannot deny that the PTS feels nimble for it's size and weight.

    I got rid of my Panamera Turbo S because it was actually getting on my nerves driving SLOW (funny, isn't it?). It felt like a Mercedes S class when driving straight and slow, something I really hated. Only when I was really fast and pushing it, the PTS felt almost like a 911 but I want to have that 911 feeling all the time, not only when pushing it. This is why the PTS started to annoy me (and by annoying, I really MEAN it). When driving slow and straight (most of the time in the city), the ride was just too disconnected, too artificial, too comfy, whatever. Especially the steering was to blame and in winter time, I could barely "feel" the street which made the ride not only disconnected but quite dangerous because I wasn't able to "feel" the street condition.

    The Panamera Turbo S is a great car for people who want a comfy ride most of the time but also want to have the option to push it hard if necessary. This just wasn't the right car for me but I get it while Porsche chose this setup. They had to keep up with the competition, comfy but sporty when needed.

    If you don't need the more comfortable rear seats and luggage space of the Panamera Turbo S, the 991 Turbo S is actually even the better daily driver in my opinion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    My favorite 991 Turbo S video so far...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNs6S1AzZ7w

    Regarding of these press videos from Bilster Berg circling around the internet, I would like to add that most of the cars driven by car journalists were pretty new, some had less than 600-1000 km on the speedo. Performance gets better after 5000-10000 km...so... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    My favorite 991 Turbo S video so far...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNs6S1AzZ7w

    Regarding of these press videos from Bilster Berg circling around the internet, I would like to add that most of the cars driven by car journalists were pretty new, some had less than 600-1000 km on the speedo. Performance gets better after 5000-10000 km...so... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Some US magazines clocked the last turbo S at around 2.6 at 0-60mph.. I would think that the new car will improve this? There is a slight correction since we compared it to 100km.hr but still would expect to be better? Where do you think the non S turbo numbers be like?


    --

     

    2014 991 Turbo (on order, Nov Prod)
    2012 991 C2S w/Fabspeed SOLD
    2011 Ferrari 458 Italia Rosso Mondiale / cuoio
    2011 Turbo S Cab SOLD
    2010 BMW AH7 
    2010 Caddy Escalade
    2006 Cayman S First P car, SOLD

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    The best number I ever saw in a German car magazine was 3.0 seconds flat. The new 991 Turbo S may beat that by 0.1-0.2 seconds but I don't expect anything better. 2.6 seconds from 0-60 mph is a very good time and I didn't see this time in any other test as far as I remember. Also forget about those 2.7 seconds from 0-100 kph (62 mph) claims from Nissan for their latest gen GT-R (even at LA airport, I saw an advertisement with these claims). German Sport Auto tested TWO different latest gen Nissan GT-R and BOTH hit 0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds. This is even worse than the old 997 Turbo (non-S).

    I expect the new Turbo S to hit 2.9 or 3.0 seconds in a Sport Auto review (they are using calibrated equipment and have high testing standards to make performance numbers comparable) and the new Turbo maybe 3.1 to 3.2 seconds from 0-100 kph. Real life numbers with launch control. From 0-100 kph, the difference between the new Turbo and Turbo S will be marginal but from 0-200 kph, I expect at least 0.5 seconds difference in a real life test (Porsche claims only 0.3 seconds). Maybe 9.8-9.9 seconds for the Turbo S and 10.4 to 10.5 seconds for the Turbo.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Did Autocar actually TEST the 991 Turbo S (with performance figures and all) or was it just a drive comparison?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    We will get to know when the scans begin to leak tomorrow


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GuhBgx6iQU


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    BiTurbo:

    We will get to know when the scans begin to leak tomorrow

    Sutcliffe wouldn't buy the Turbo according to the magazine cover. I suspect that's because the GT3 is cheaper and better as a driving machine. We'll see when the magazine is out.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    It's up on GCF


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    What a POS article. Smiley

    First, it is drive impression based on tow hours long drive session. NOT a proper test with measurements. Do you know howl logn last a test done by AMS or SA for example. At least 7 days. In case of SA Supertest even longer.

    SS did about 100km with the car and he can write the article with that kind of subjective opinion. How about this-ferrari invited him  few months ago to drive F12 around Maranello and again after an hour and a half long session he said that this is the best car. Then Porsche invited him to try new GT3 and again(SmileySmileySmiley) after drive session that last at best two hours he claimed that new GT3 is the best sportscar.

    Most of these reviews(which are in reality drive sessions at Porsche press event) are pure crap.

     

    Now, back to something interesting-few members here asked about 0-300km/h time for new 991 Turbo S. I asked directly my P source and got this-33s. Yes, 33s... He told me: what do you expect for 560ps car?

    BTW, he also told me that latest MP4-12C examples are producing at least 640ps. AMS measured one in latest issue 0-200km/h: 9.3s


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    The source telling me about the 29.x seconds should know it best...he is directly involved in development.  Of course he could have told me some crap but it would badly hurt his reputation. It could be of course "only" 30.x or 29.9 seconds but 33 seconds sound a bit too much.

    Speaking of what to expect from a 560 hp car, I've been told that the engineers are surprised how well the whole package works, especially with that kind of power (and yes, the engines produce between 560 and 580 hp, not much more). A Sport Auto dyno test will confirm it.

    Same goes to the 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph times: They vary between 2.9 to 3.1 seconds and 9.7 to 10.3 seconds (achieved under various driving conditions with different Turbo S pre-production cars).

    Like you said, we need a reliable review with certified measurement equipment (don't let some internet or even car magazines fool you, not all of them are using certified high quality equipment and/or have certain standards for their measurements) and I expect a high quality review from Sport Auto.

    Does somebody know when Chris Harris is going to have a take on the new 991 Turbo S? I kind of get a feeling that after the GT3 and 918 invites, he kind of lost interest in Porsche cars (or the other way around).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    What a POS article. Smiley

    First, it is drive impression based on tow hours long drive session. NOT a proper test with measurements. Do you know howl logn last a test done by AMS or SA for example. At least 7 days. In case of SA Supertest even longer.

    SS did about 100km with the car and he can write the article with that kind of subjective opinion. How about this-ferrari invited him  few months ago to drive F12 around Maranello and again after an hour and a half long session he said that this is the best car. Then Porsche invited him to try new GT3 and again(SmileySmileySmiley) after drive session that last at best two hours he claimed that new GT3 is the best sportscar.

    Most of these reviews(which are in reality drive sessions at Porsche press event) are pure crap.

     

    Now, back to something interesting-few members here asked about 0-300km/h time for new 991 Turbo S. I asked directly my P source and got this-33s. Yes, 33s... He told me: what do you expect for 560ps car?

    BTW, he also told me that latest MP4-12C examples are producing at least 640ps. AMS measured one in latest issue 0-200km/h: 9.3s

    Are you sure about 9.3s ? cause I saw 9.2s with the spider Smiley the open top version which imho looks much better than the coupe


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    The source telling me about the 29.x seconds should know it best...he is directly involved in development.  Of course he could have told me some crap but it would badly hurt his reputation. It could be of course "only" 30.x or 29.9 seconds but 33 seconds sound a bit too much.

    Speaking of what to expect from a 560 hp car, I've been told that the engineers are surprised how well the whole package works, especially with that kind of power (and yes, the engines produce between 560 and 580 hp, not much more). A Sport Auto dyno test will confirm it.

    Same goes to the 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph times: They vary between 2.9 to 3.1 seconds and 9.7 to 10.3 seconds (achieved under various driving conditions with different Turbo S pre-production cars).

    Like you said, we need a reliable review with certified measurement equipment (don't let some internet or even car magazines fool you, not all of them are using certified high quality equipment and/or have certain standards for their measurements) and I expect a high quality review from Sport Auto.

    Does somebody know when Chris Harris is going to have a take on the new 991 Turbo S? I kind of get a feeling that after the GT3 and 918 invites, he kind of lost interest in Porsche cars (or the other way around).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Well, my source works at Werk 1... Smiley

    He first told me something like 30s(+/- 0.3s) but, now he said that 30s is prototyps number that were running at more then 560ps.

    I asked pretty directly will new 991 Turbo S beat factory numbers when tested by AMS and Sport Auto? He told me to expect numbers in fashion with 991 GT3 test in current issue of AMS-that means more or less 991 Turbo S will achieve numbers au pair with factory claims.

    As you suggested he told me that car works like dream and that I really need to get one. To qoute him:"..the fastest car that can be used daily during the year. By far the best 911 Turbo so far."

    Hmm... Rhodium silver with black interior and Sport Classic optional wheel in black? Maybe... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    In the Sport Auto Supertest, the MP4-12C Coupe achieved 0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds and 0-200 kph in 9.8 seconds. McLaren is well aware of the fact that Sport Auto verifies the power output and the chassis/tire setups to make sure that manufacturers don't cheat. 

    AMS usually uses the same equipment Sport Auto uses but I don't think that they verify engine power output and chassis setup (which is only important for track comparison of course).

    McLaren is well known for adapting and improving their software setup all the time and as a small manufacturer, they have a little bit more leeway than Porsche for example.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    this was the 600HP version, so this times from SA are not valid anymore.


     
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