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    Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

     

    Mr Suzuki as committed as usual...

     

     


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife



    These videos are of very limited use as several independant tests are available now.

     


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    I wonder what Porsche will have to say about this run. The chronometer was miscalibrated?

    The car is the real deal. Notice that around the seven minute mark his head turned twice to confirm his running time and thereafter went into the final cornering turns at very high rpm's (7000) almost losing it near the end. He was determined to post that time again acting that he was  aware of the criticism of his previous 7.26 time. He proved his point.


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    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Its still a little slow

     


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Given the significant power to weight advantage of the ZR1 it is a remarkable time for the GTR. Suzuki really pushes the car to its absolute limit.

     


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    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    nberry:

    I wonder what Porsche will have to say about this run. The chronometer was miscalibrated?

    The car is the real deal. Notice that around the seven minute mark his head turned twice to confirm his running time and thereafter went into the final cornering turns at very high rpm's (7000) almost losing it near the end. He was determined to post that time again acting that he was  aware of the criticism of his previous 7.26 time. He proved his point.

     They don't need to discuss any Nissan videos at Porsche. The GTR does not match (or even gets close) to the Nissan NBR lap time claims in any (!) independant test  (SportAuto, DriversRepublic, Tim Schrick etc.).

    It might be hard for Nissan - but the truth is they have been cheating on potential customers regarding those 7.26 lap times. Funny thing is that some guys like you still seem to live "behind the moon"  (that's how we in Germany call people who don't know yet what is already commonly known Smiley).

    BTW, it is now already verified by two GTR owners I know in person that the brakes show fading after very few laps (2-3 in HHR, 3-4 Leipzig) and that the gear-box temperature rises within 10 minutes or so (Leipzig track) to a temperature level which requires you to stop and cool down the car... Would be funny to see a Nissan video where Suzuki does one fast lap and then needs to cool down the car Smiley The word for this is: one-lap wonder. You can still use the car for regular drives to Starbucks though - if you don't drive too fast Smiley


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    nberry:

    I wonder what Porsche will have to say about this run. The chronometer was miscalibrated?

     

     

    No again please!!!Smiley

     

    If you like the GTR,buy it...Smiley


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    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    I was wondering about the aggressive steering inputs before many corners. Here is an interesting opinion from another forum:

    Colin from CAT has spent some time watching the 7:29 lap and has come to an interesting conclusion which he went through whilst we were lapping the handling circuit at Millbrook on Sunday........

    At first he couldn't understand why on each corner Suzuki appears to give one or more twitches to the steering which goes against the single input steering technique.

    Colin believes this is because the majority of the time, the car is RWD, but if you "upset" it by turning in too quickly, it throws power to the front wheels, which enables Suzuki to floor the throttle and drag it out of the corner much earlier than would otherwise be possible. And exit speed now being higher this then makes the whole lap much faster. This may also account for why a different manufacturer's test drivers cant get near the time in the same car....

    The steering twitches are also visible on this run.  


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    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    If that is what it takes to make the GTR acheive these lap times then who really cares how fast it is? Yes its an acheivement but its basically a computer doing the driving. I wonder if we will begin to hear stories of average drivers attempting this technique and running off the road.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    trip:

    If that is what it takes to make the GTR acheive these lap times then who really cares how fast it is? Yes its an acheivement but its basically a computer doing the driving. I wonder if we will begin to hear stories of average drivers attempting this technique and running off the road.

     Well, I guess that "running off the road" when "average drivers" attempt to be fast is considered normal for sports cars.

    The question is, whether controlling the car via such techniques is desirable and superior in the long run or if it will disappear.

    My guess is, that this is just progress and in 5 years from now you'll have the same technology in a Porsche.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    To me it just doesn't seem natural. I know that's not a very logical argument but I really hope this sort of technology does not find its way into a Porsche.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    trip:

    To me it just doesn't seem natural. I know that's not a very logical argument but I really hope this sort of technology does not find its way into a Porsche.

     This argument is very logical, Porsche stands for purity and I too hope they will not loose that.

    I was more thinking about the Cayenne or the Panamera, or as an option (like their strange paddle variation). 


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    I seems really hard for some of you guys to just appreciate Mr Suzukis driving. Have you ever seen any video from the Ring where the driver puts so much focus and comittment to his driving? Just relax, sit down, and enoy Mr Suzuki's comittment. Mr Suzuki - a true Ringmeister.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Eunice:

     This argument is very logical, Porsche stands for purity and I too hope they will not loose that.

     

    What is pure about all the drivers assist systems in a porsche now or 4 wheel drive?
     

    You have to back to my cars era to have purity.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Orabidoo:

    I seems really hard for some of you guys to just appreciate Mr Suzukis driving. Have you ever seen any video from the Ring where the driver puts so much focus and comittment to his driving? Just relax, sit down, and enoy Mr Suzuki's comittment. Mr Suzuki - a true Ringmeister.

     I do appreciate it, and I think that we'll see more drivers copying his style on the GT-R and ultimately other cars copying the electronics of the GT-R.

    Can I appreciate it more?

    I wish I knew what times he does in another car, if it's the pairing of his style and the GT-R or if he just adapted to the GT-R like he can do with any other car.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    racerx:
    Eunice:

     This argument is very logical, Porsche stands for purity and I too hope they will not loose that.

     

    What is pure about all the drivers assist systems in a porsche now or 4 wheel drive?
     

    You have to back to my cars era to have purity.

     That's true, but it only supports the point that more electronics is the future, whether we like it or not.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Sports car purity is a 1990 MX5 with no power steering, ABS or even power windows, and the top down on a twisty road. Grip and power are low. Fun and driving satisfaction are extremely high. Motoring nirvana.

    The GTR is going in another direction. It is all GOOD.


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    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    trip:

    To me it just doesn't seem natural. I know that's not a very logical argument but I really hope this sort of technology does not find its way into a Porsche.

    It's natural for some drivers and not so much for others. Just like driving a Porsche during the "don't lift or you will die for ever" era.

    Here's a guy that doesn't have a problem with driving cars that way:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1m9fyJ-dUA

    Someone like Hamilton wouldn't be fast if he had to drive that way. Rally drivers do it all the time.

    edit: MKSGR is still funny as hell


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    I had a conversation with Patrick Simon quite recently. He confirms what two new GTR owners told me: the car has two major problems: the brakes and the overheating gear-box. In terms of handling he says that the car feels a bit heavy in tighter sections of a track but still has a very good handlng given its weight. He is also one of those who consider it impossible (his exact word) that a GTR (customer spec, of course) could do the NBR in 7.26. 


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    The video proves that the GTR can do a 7.26 lap. But there is no proof that the car is customer spec.

    Maybe the boost was increased? To find out look at the RPM needle during high speed acceleration. Time  how long it takes between two RPM values then compare with a customer car in the same gear(s). If the times are close the boost is standard.

    The car in the video does not look like it has super fast acceleration on the long straight and my guess is the boost was standard. So where were the mods that the motoring press failed to notice?

    The Spec V with all of its expensive improvements is not much faster than the GTR, which again points to a standard car (with V-spec wheels) for the 7.26 lap. But some proof would be welcome. If Suzuki's kamakaze driving style does not suffice as proof that he is 12 seconds faster than a magazine tester from Stuttgart with no incentive to drive at the ragged edge of the cars ultimate potential..


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    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    The almost 12 sec gap between the Sport Auto time of 7:38 and 7:26.7 is quite significant indeed.   I agree with Aum's comment that the car does not seem to rev any faster than the standard customer cars through the gears.

    I think these are some factors that could logically explain the discrepancies assuming that the engine is stock. 

    1) Driver: HVS vs Suzuki.  Suzuki has spent hundreds of laps in the GTR and may better realize its potential.  Suzuki was at all out attack, looked like he was going like 98% or more.  It was commented that HVS was not going all out, probably going at 90% potential at most.  That could easily be worth around 3-4 seconds on a long track like the Ring.

    2) Setup: The car in Sport Auto was probably 100% stock customer car.  Nissan's car potentially could have tweaked the suspension for more track orientated alignment.  I would not consider this "cheating", as everyone would have access to these adjustment, and could be done at the dealer.  This could prove a significant improvement, and could worth another 3-4 seconds.

    3) Engine power: We all know, that no car rolls off the factory floor with identical output power.  The variance could be 10hp or even more.  It would be acceptable for Nissan to test and send the cars that have above average power to the Ring.  For a power circuit like the Nurburging, perhaps another 2 seconds?

    4) Conditions: Sport Auto probably has a window of a couple hours to set the fast lap.  I think the methodoly is something like 3 warm up laps followed by several laps to set the time.  On the other hand, Nissan has a very wide window and many attempts to ensure the optimal conditions to set the record lap.  In addition, optimal track temperatures and atmospheric conditions may provide optimal grip and power.  Again, worth another 1-2 seconds?

    5) New car vs. broken in car: The car Sport Auto used was probably a new car with less than 1000 miles.  Nissan's car on the other hand had been broken in.  Worth another 0.5 second?

    6) SpecV wheels: It is beyond me why Nissan decided to use the SpecV wheels to set the 7:26 lap, which might cast doubt on the credibility of the lap.  But probably being lighter than standard wheels, that the SpecV wheels could be good for something?  Another 0.5 second off?

    As you can see, all these factors could add up and explain the gap, although seems like all the planets have to be aligned for that to happen.  Sub 7:30 does seem almost unbelievable for a car as heavy as the GTR at first, but we have also heard that the Nurburging have gotten a bit faster compared to before.  We shall see.

    So the question to all would be if Sport Auto acheived a 7:38, how many more seconds do you think is left on the table given the factors above?


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    AUM:

    The video proves that the GTR can do a 7.26 lap. But there is no proof that the car is customer spec.

    Maybe the boost was increased? To find out look at the RPM needle during high speed acceleration. Time  how long it takes between two RPM values then compare with a customer car in the same gear(s). If the times are close the boost is standard.

    The car in the video does not look like it has super fast acceleration on the long straight and my guess is the boost was standard. So where were the mods that the motoring press failed to notice?

    The Spec V with all of its expensive improvements is not much faster than the GTR, which again points to a standard car (with V-spec wheels) for the 7.26 lap. But some proof would be welcome. If Suzuki's kamakaze driving style does not suffice as proof that he is 12 seconds faster than a magazine tester from Stuttgart with no incentive to drive at the ragged edge of the cars ultimate potential..


    --

     I partially agree with your analysis: an increased boost pressure might be part of the explanation - non-standard tires (together with some suspension mods) are the even more likely reason for a 7.26 (or 7.27) - just look at the effect the new tires on the GT3 Mk2 have on the car's NBR performance. The important point is that Patrick SImon is probably one of the fastest drivers on the NBR-NS. If he considers it impossible to get close to 7.26,7 with a customer spec GTR this is an important piece of information which somehow matches the SportAuto findings.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Another factor could be that you have to know how to trick the electronics in the GT-R.

    Suzuki had hundreds of laps on the Ring in the GT-R to learn that while working together with the cars developers.

    That, together with the VSpec wheels, perfect track conditions and a perfect setup of the car just make the 12 seconds plausible. 

    Think about it, 12 seconds on the ring is less than 3%!


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Eunice:

    Another factor could be that you have to know how to trick the electronics in the GT-R.

    Suzuki had hundreds of laps on the Ring in the GT-R to learn that while working together with the cars developers.

    That, together with the VSpec wheels, perfect track conditions and a perfect setup of the car just make the 12 seconds plausible. 

    Think about it, 12 seconds on the ring is less than 3%!

     Still, all this confirms that Nissan cheated on the public Smiley A standard spec GTR cannot do the lap times they claimed. With mods all cars can be optimized towards better track performance. They should have then stated: a modified GTR can be as fast as... However, they claimed that the standard GTR can be as quick as...

    Also, it seems grossly misleading to do a "track oriented" marketing campaign like Nissan did knowing that the GTR will need a break after 10 minutes of track driving (due to overheating gear-box, as confirmed to me in person by two GTR owners/trackdrivers so far) and knowing that other key components (brakes etc.) are not suited for intensive track driving (Confirmed to me by three GTR owners/drivers so far).

    In summary, the GTR is far from what Nissan wanted potential buyers to believe Smiley


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    The motoring press confirmed the tires and suspension where stock. Boost is the most invisible  variable, And the car does not look extra quick in acceleration. It does look superfast in the corners and this is where the GTR works its weight defying magic.  

     

    GTR plus Suzuki = 7.26

    same GTR plus magazine tester = 7.38 or slower

    Same GTR plus Porsche driver = 7.56 ?


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    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    AUM:

    The motoring press confirmed the tires and suspension where stock. Boost is the most invisible  variable, And the car does not look extra quick in acceleration. It does look superfast in the corners and this is where the GTR works its weight defying magic.  

     

    GTR plus Suzuki = 7.26

    same GTR plus magazine tester = 7.38 or slower

    Same GTR plus Porsche driver = 7.56 ?

     If Patrick Simon is 100% convinced that a stock GTR can never get close to 7.26,7 there is no need to speculate whether it could still be possible Smiley I doubt that Suzuki would be faster than him on the NS.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    MKSGR:  If Patrick Simon is 100% convinced that a stock GTR can never get close to 7.26,7 there is no need to speculate whether it could still be possible Smiley I doubt that Suzuki would be faster than him on the NS.

    LOL

    Which one of the 2 made it to F1? And didn't Simon drive Porsche for years?

    I think in Germany you say "don't bite the hand that feeds you". And that counts for Sport Auto also. Look at how many advertisements Porsche has in the magazine. The track driving training organized by Sport Auto had some Porsche press cars from Stuttgart, Walter Röhrl and some other PR dude who works for Porsche was also there. So it's pretty easy to see why the chubby japanese could never dream of a proper test. Oh and you think that it was a coincidence that the Supertest of the 997.2 GT3 came one month before the one of the GT-R?

    Btw Patrick Simon works for DSF, the Deutsche Sexysportclipsfehrsehen.

    I'd rather listen to Kuurt Thiim, someone who actually won a few races in his life, and he was 7 tenths faster in the GT-R than the GT3.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

     If Patrick Simon is 100% convinced that a stock GTR can never get close to 7.26,7 there is no need to speculate whether it could still be possible Smiley I doubt that Suzuki would be faster than him on the NS.

    If I am 100% convinced that the car is stock and hence, Mr Suzuki's time is correct, that must convince you.
     

    What if my dad says he thinks Suzuki's time is correct... And so on... Just believe the hype and have a look at Mr Suzuki's driving and you too will realize that the time is correct.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Walter:
    MKSGR:  If Patrick Simon is 100% convinced that a stock GTR can never get close to 7.26,7 there is no need to speculate whether it could still be possible Smiley I doubt that Suzuki would be faster than him on the NS.

    I think in Germany you say "don't bite the hand that feeds you". And that counts for Sport Auto also. Look at how many advertisements Porsche has in the magazine. The track driving training organized by Sport Auto had some Porsche press cars from Stuttgart, Walter Röhrl and some other PR dude who works for Porsche was also there. So it's pretty easy to see why the chubby japanese could never dream of a proper test. Oh and you think that it was a coincidence that the Supertest of the 997.2 GT3 came one month before the one of the GT-R?

    Btw Patrick Simon works for DSF, the Deutsche Sexysportclipsfehrsehen.

     

     We don't need Nissan employees posting BS here again and again. Nissan trolls not allowed here Smiley Please take this into account if you should consider posting nonsense again. Thanks. Our patience is limited.


    Re: Video: Nissan GT-R 2009 7.26.7 lap around Nordschleife

    Orabidoo:

     If Patrick Simon is 100% convinced that a stock GTR can never get close to 7.26,7 there is no need to speculate whether it could still be possible Smiley I doubt that Suzuki would be faster than him on the NS.

    If I am 100% convinced that the car is stock and hence, Mr Suzuki's time is correct, that must convince you.
     

    What if my dad says he thinks Suzuki's time is correct... And so on... Just believe the hype and have a look at Mr Suzuki's driving and you too will realize that the time is correct.

    Let me just state that I don't think that posts like yours add anything to this forum. Please try to add some content the next time Smiley


     
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