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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Leawood911:

    Auf Wiedersehen Smiley

    No matter how much you spend on a new car someone can always take an old car and make it faster for a fraction of the cost.  The only difference is that in the old one you always have to prove it. Smiley  Oh what fun that is though...Smiley

    True but fast isn't everything, it is the whole driving feel, the excitement of having a new toy and so on. New cars are usually always "better" than the old ones, so this adds to the fun. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Just heard - My TurboS Cab is in v200 and I will have it by end of March blush The next 5 months will be torture!


    --

    2011 M3 Convertible, 2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    EnglishManInNY:

    Again a simple answer - reminds me of Jennifer Lopez from the back Smiley

    Smiley Smiley However, I would rather compare it with this type of behind (JLo's behind is a bit too much for me Smiley).

    nice-ass-210.jpg


    of course, "if you drive a Porsche, you must have a slim wife anyway" .. Jeremy C 

    Smiley


    --

     

    2014 991 Turbo (on order, Nov Prod)
    2012 991 C2S w/Fabspeed SOLD
    2011 Ferrari 458 Italia Rosso Mondiale / cuoio
    2011 Turbo S Cab SOLD
    2010 BMW AH7 
    2010 Caddy Escalade
    2006 Cayman S First P car, SOLD

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    IMO the Carrera S (RWD) is more than adequate. It is a B road king once you learn the handling (which is what matters most to the keen driver IMO) and it is still very fast on the motorway given the laws applicable and the traffic situation almost everywhere.

    In the process you save around between 50-70K EUR (depending on 4WD and/or X51 etc) and you get the best looking 911.

    I am not sure why people buy Carrera 4/4S? It doesn't have the ground clearance for snow, it still aquaplanes like the RWD and the steering is compromised. Besides, if someone can afford a new 911 he/she would also afford some type of SUV for deep winter.

    My recipe would be : Carrera S RWD X51 and a Diesel Q5 or X3.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    +++++++++++++++++++

    Agree Smiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    JanneS:

    @absent,

    Congrats to a very nice specified car. Hope for lots of pictures, especially the interior. You have chosen all leather options, haven't you?

    Thanks!

    I'm a sucker for leather,can't stand any visible plastic in the interior so I always try to cover it as much as possible.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I have nearly the same spec as you, the only difference is the exterior cholor, mine is GT Silver. I have even the CPK - Vehicle key painted and 625 - Porsche Entry & Drive. Im not the only one having a CPK key in my pocket while driving.

    kiss


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    JanneS:

    I have nearly the same spec as you, the only difference is the exterior cholor, mine is GT Silver. I have even the CPK - Vehicle key painted and 625 - Porsche Entry & Drive. Im not the only one having a CPK key in my pocket while driving.

    kiss

    Smiley

    The only thing I regret is the lack of rear view camera (not available for "launch" cars in US). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    My car is delivered in spring 2014, so I have ordered the reverse camera and the round exhaust, I think the standard exhaust looks ugly.wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I don't see the round exhaust as an option on the US configurator yet... Anyone know when?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    absent:
    JanneS:

    I have nearly the same spec as you, the only difference is the exterior cholor, mine is GT Silver. I have even the CPK - Vehicle key painted and 625 - Porsche Entry & Drive. Im not the only one having a CPK key in my pocket while driving.

    kiss

    Smiley

    The only thing I regret is the lack of rear view camera (not available for "launch" cars in US). 

    Should be available as a retrofit sooner or later but so far, I haven't had issues without the rear view camera. The wide rear fenders are quite a "navigational" help, believe it or not.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

     
    Hello guys!
    New to the forum and new to Porsche Smiley
     
    I got my first Porsche (Cayenne Turbo) last June and three weeks ago my 991 Turbo S.
    Despite a number of hiccups in the delivery I'm now "pretty" happy with the car. SmileySmiley
     
    However being new with the car and the brand (I almost always had Audi, the last one the RS6) I will be happy to read and share some comments on my new "car life" Smiley.
     
    So, hello to everyone and I hope I posted in the right thread SmileySmiley
     
    mc3744

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Welcome on RennTeam and in the Porsche Family.blush

    Congrats for your cars,post pictures of your Turbo S,and tell us your impressions!!

    ciaoo


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    mc3744:
     
    Hello guys!
    New to the forum and new to Porsche Smiley
     
    I got my first Porsche (Cayenne Turbo) last June and three weeks ago my 991 Turbo S.
    Despite a number of hiccups in the delivery I'm now "pretty" happy with the car. SmileySmiley
     
    However being new with the car and the brand (I almost always had Audi, the last one the RS6) I will be happy to read and share some comments on my new "car life" Smiley.
     
    So, hello to everyone and I hope I posted in the right thread SmileySmiley
     
    mc3744

    So where are the photos??? Smiley Smiley

    Welcome. Smiley A short driving report or some impressions would be nice. Thank you. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Hello again,
     
    Thank you for the welcome 
     
    I won't have time to post any picture till mid November, unfortunately life always seems to get in the way of fun laughindecision
     
    I only drove some 300 km on the 991. And mostly in the city, hence my impressions are really yet to come.
     
    I have - according to the dealer (but it could be BS) - the first customized 991 Turbo S delivered in Milan. Two weeks earlier one 991 show car has also been delivered, but it was specced in Germany.
     
    To get it "early" I had to give up, as others in the forum, the rear view camera, the contrast stitching and a couple of other minor internal details. The lack of rear view camera kind of bugs me. But the car it's small and it doesn't seem to be an actual issue, more a psychological one.
     
    I've driven some 50 km on the city ring and got a glimpse of the potential. However I've been strongly suggested take it easy for the first couple thousands km (would you agree on that?). It feels like a missile. So much more responsive than the 4S I had as a test car. No comparison whatsoever. The 4S on drive always felt like "Much noise about nothing". The Turbo S is a completely different (=more exciting) beast.
     
    Before going for Porsche I tested the R8 V10 (the single clutch version). Too nervous for my personal taste, no space for anything but the driver and one passenger and not enough performance for the sacrifices.
    The Lamborghini Aventador. IMHO the best looking car ever. However it's just impossible as a daily car. They say it's tamed compared to the previous Lambo's, but compared to the 911 it's still crazy. Noise, gear change, suspensions. It's a show and race car, not fit for my use - unfortunately!!. Although really, really incredible. Maybe as a third car indecisionindecision
    Ferrari FF (I was looking for some space for a few bags, groceries, picking up the kids at school once in a while, ...). Great car, great performance. Too heavy, too flashy (for some it can be a positive of course) and the internal electronics really not up to date. They couldn't even guarantee the bluetooth connection with the iPhone 5 when I was making the choice (April 2013).
     
    That's how I came to the 991. I ended up buying a Cayenne and a 911 for slightly more than the price of one FF 
     
    I found the Cayenne incredibly comfortable and pleasurable to drive. I was really surprised. I got it as a family car and I ended up liking it so much more than I expected.
    I actually find it much better in the city than the 991. It's bigger, has a higher consumption (but a much bigger tank = range), but it still feels way better suited for the city use. And if you put it on sport (with the carbo-ceramic brakes) it's almost a sport car!
    The 991 is a rocket, but I'm finding the driving position - I'm 183 cm - slightly uncomfortable on the legs (at least when compared to the Cayenne ) and the fact that you can hear every single stone the wheels pick up makes for a moderately less enjoyable ride.
     
    I know what you are going to say. The same I'm thinking. Use it on the track and on open roads! Which is exactly what I'm hoping to be able to do in the near future.
     
    As to the car options and quality in general, there's little to say. Anything you want, you have.
    The quality is great, the electronics almost to the high end (save for the inability to actually make use of internet connectivity to keep systems up to date and syncing with your cloud), the look and feel just perfect.
    It's Silver GT, with rear wiper, Entry & Drive, sunroof in glass, dark windows, front and rear park assist,  power steering plus, light design package, Adaptive cruise control, multifunction steering wheel, seat heating and ventilation, additional leather here and there, red seat belts, Aluminum pedals and footrest, homelink, online service (useless!), TV tuner, voice control, Burmester sound system, Digital radio, telephone module. I think that's pretty much it.
     
    One last thing for now . I kind of like that it's an understated car. Save for car nuts, no one would guess how fast and performing this car was. It looks almost like a cool standard car, and yet it's one of the fastest, most performing in the world! That's really cool.
     
    Let me know if I "talk to much"  As I'm new 
     
    Cheers

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I like this guy. 

    Very good, very comprehensive review of your porsche experience so far. Seems like the way you´ve made your choices has you on the right track and Porsches are the best fit for your lifestile. On the break-in period, you're going to get a lot of mixed suggestion here (pandoras box, don´t open that) but most people will tell you to try and get it on a more open road to be able to explore the cars potential. Oh and remember to show us some pics of the beauty. 

    Welcome and we hope you become just as addicted as the rest of us. We're a fun crowd when we're not fighting over who has more fun shifting gears smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Congrats ! I guess Italy is a perfect place to have such a car ! kiss


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://instagram.com/p/gXkVCLiifo/

     

    Techart 991 Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I prefer this



    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

     
     
    Hello again,
     
    Thanks for the comments :)
     
    First maintenance update. The brakes, after one slightly heavier than usual braking, make a fastidious "toc-toc-toc" when braking lightly. Porsche service tells me that it's probably the anti-vibration membrane on the brake pads. Sometimes it detaches and vibrates. It has no functional impact (or so they say), anyway they'll fix it.
     
    On the Cayenne they had to reboot the software because the BT music connection would only work 40% of the times. Completely random.
    Now it seems to be working fine on both cars.
     
    One reply to Bjoern. Not sure Italy is the right place for this car.
    I got "the finger" for no reason already a couple of times since I started using Porsche.
    Media and public opinion recently (and especially due to the prolonged economic stagnation) characterize people with fancy cars (= money) as thieves and dishonest. It seems that if you have money you must have stolen it. It's too annoying to think that there might actually be someone very good at his job, paying his taxes (tons of it), honest and just working hard!
     
    Also there are speed cameras and "tutors" everywhere. But never in front of schools, hospital, before dangerous turns, on slippery roads, entering tunnels, ... just on straight, safe, wide stretches of road.
    It's basically an additional tax.(FYI: 50% of the budget of small Italian towns - thousands of those - comes from speed cameras tickets. The selling pitch is on how quickly the city council starts making money out of it, not on lives saved, or environmental benefits!). I'm resigned to pay it, but it's still really annoying.
    I used to live in Germany (I really love Munich!) and there speed limits made so much more sense. Most of the times you actually understood why it was there (danger, noise, pedestrian respect) and I always respected those.
    In Italy it seems like they put whatever sign they have left in the warehouse!!
     
    And just don't get me started on speed limits in Switzerland indecisionindecisionlaughangel
     
    I like those tuning btw. Pity you can't get those in Italy because of crazy regulations ;))
    I've asked Porsche but they told me it's impossible. You loose guarantee and insurance coverage.
     
    Till next one.
     
    Cheers
     
    mc3744

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I spent a full day around Lake Garda and while I agree that there are speed traps everywhere, they usually "announce" them and in the mountains, where the car is actually huge fun to drive, there are no speed traps. I actually got only thumbs up over there but I can see the issues in Italy with expensive cars. In Germany things aren't much different, people usually think I stole from "them" because I drive an expensive car. The media is to blame (every day there is at least one report about tax evasion or how much richer the rich became and how much poorer the poor, bla bla bla), it really gets annoying. I should pin my income/business tax payments to my car windows, so people actually understand how much I pay.  Not that I think it would actually help.

    What bothers me the most is the fact that even people who know me (friends, friends of friends, etc) don't seem to understand the reason I drive the car I drive. I couldn't care less about the brand or the price tag, all I care is driving fun. Unfortunately I also have to care about public perception, something which really annoys me.  

    Now just imagine what would happen if I would drive an Aventador (still my "favorite")?  


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Oh, the Germans lake indecision
     
    Yes, you are indeed right. Mountain roads are often cameras free. And yes, speed traps must be announced, by law. However there are tons of fake announcements. At the place where I have the country house they have 21 speed camera boxes and only one camera. They move it every week, but of course you don't know which one is working 
     
    Also - don't ask me how I know - 98% (it's an actual number) of tutors on highways are off from 8 am till 8 pm during working days (not sure about weekends). They are all on (unless malfunctioning of course) after 8 pm and during holidays.
    Everything below 150 km/h is automatically discarded by the system or they'd issue toooo many tickets.
    Btw, Tutor helped reduce mortality by 50%!!
    They tell me the real issue (but I have no hard data to support this) were trucks and lorries going too fast (over 120-130 km/h). Sport cars are irrelevant (if only for the limited number) to statistics on highway accidents. IMHO it's also because they are usually safer, thanks to the technology and the care/interest of their drivers.
     
    Thankfully my friends have accepted my "vice" :) But only a selected number of them.
     
    To be completely honest I wanted to go for the Aventador, matte black! (despite all the issues!). Gut feeling. Love at first sight. Unmitigated fun and pleasure .... But my wife forbade me 
    She said she would be ashamed. Unfortunately I agreed.
    We now live in a world where you have to be ashamed to be doing good unless you are also famous.
     
    But the 991 will definitely do :))) And it's so much more usable.
     
    Cheers

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Get a Swiss number plate indecision - I have been "flashed" a couple of times with the RS - but there seems to be no "communication" between the Italiens and Switzerland. A friend who had german number plates got his ticket - not me angry

    Anyway - it's very true that in italy "guarda financia" is obviously eyeing a lot of high end vehicles - a friend of mine with IT No. has a copy of his tax-doc in the car just to proof he can afford it - but hearing stories that rich italians going to St.Moritz driving a Rangi and declare officially 2-3k income/month to the tax-man is also something you hear a lot - so I guess you guys had a good life for a long time - now it's a bit tougher  . I still love the spirit of Italians liking fast cars and usually get also only thumps up


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I never got ticketed in Italy (and I'm a bad boy... Smiley). Either I spot the traps in time (one laser trap was quite tricky but I saw them and suddenly reduced the speed, throwing off their measurement...they stopped me anyway) or I am just careful. I also heard (not sure if true) that they average speed between toll stations shouldn't exceed the legal speed limit but this works quite fine since I usually never achieve a higher average speed.

    My secret not to get ticketed in Italy? Well...I am nice. I got stopped a couple of times and never got ticketed. I apologized, I was nice, we talked, sometimes my wife helped out too (she has her way with men... Smiley) and usually I got off with a verbal warning. Once, the carabinieri even told me to watch out because there is another speed trap down the road...and he was right. Smiley Well, this all happened when they "liked" Germans in North Italy, now I'm not so sure. Smiley

    I am more careful in Austria since Austrian police can actually ticket you as they please (if a police officer says you were 30 kph over the legal speed limit, you were 30 kph over the legal speed limit, no matter if true or not) because they usually don't need "proof", which is quite annoying. 

    Switzerland? Don't even talk to me about it. I avoid Switzerland as much as I can and haven't been there for a long time.  

    Regarding the Aventador: Well...your wife is very similar to mine. When I wanted to get a Ferrari F12 (had an excellent offer, almost couldn't resist), my wife threatened me with divorce. Smiley Same goes to my Lamborghini Gallardo craving a couple of years ago, no exotics in our neighborhood. My wife was (as always? Smiley) right, I can somehow "justify" the Porsche cars now but a Lambo or a Ferrari? Impossible. Just recently my son's best friend kind of started to ignore my son because he found out that we have a 991 Turbo S. No kidding. Of course they are kids and friends come and go but my son felt very hurt. My son never said something about the car in school (we taught our kids to shut up about our cars, vacations, etc. for good reasons) but another school kid in his class lives in our neighborhood and told everybody about the car...so... Smiley Another example: My daughter's best friend asked my daughter if she wants to come to the Circus with her because she has free tickets. When my daughter wanted to go, her friend told her not to forget money for the ticket. My daughter asked her friend about the free tickets and you know what her friend told her? "You are rich, you don't need a free ticket, I gave it to a relative." Smiley My daughter was devastated. As you can see, discrimination works both ways. Smiley

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Makes me soooooo sad to hear that you need to teach your kids to hide and be careful to what they say... It reminds me of communism times.....


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:

    Makes me soooooo sad to hear that you need to teach your kids to hide and be careful to what they say... It reminds me of communism times.....

    Welcome to the 21st century Germany (and Europe for that matter).

    Another example: My daughter was on a one week trip to England with her school. Around 100 school kids total. Now here's the catch: The school issued a flyer asking parents to give each kid only a (ridiculously low, not even enough to provide snacks and drinks for the trip) amount of pocket money. Furthermore, no smartphones, no tablets (especially iPads...this was outlined with !!! three exclamation marks) and no gameboys or other electronic devices. Only thing allowed: A camera (but no DSLR, just small ones). 90% of the kids have smartphones, tablets, gameboys, etc. but 10% don't (they cannot afford them or the parents just aren't into electronics).

    Now just imagine a 1300 km drive in a bus without any smartphone, tablet or even gameboy. These are kids, they are used to this stuff. After some protests from parents, the kids were allowed to take smartphones with them but were NOT allowed to use them during the trip in the bus. Smiley Tablets were completely prohibited, no exceptions made (my daughter had an iPad mini with her anyway, so we could stay connected via Skype). Books were allowed, so my daughter took her Kindle Paperwhite with her. A teacher confiscated(!) it after the trip started but returned it later on to her after he realized what he had confiscated (he thought this is a tablet Smiley). He asked her "next time, bring a real book". My daughter reads a lot, usually two to three books a week, so taking three books with her would have substantially increased the weight of her carry-on bag. Smiley Where is the problem with a Kindle? Smiley

    In the end, we found out why so many "restrictions" were in place: To avoid making the "poorer" kids feel bad.

    This is already socialism, sorry to say that. I get it...kids should not rub their phones, tablets or money under some other kids' nose, this is not right and very insensitive but forbidding them to take "tools" they usually use on a daily basis with them on a trip is just not right. Surprisingly, many of the parents actually agreed that the kids should not take all their gadgets with them (there is some sort of technology "fear" or antipathy over here which I don't quite understand, especially considering the fact that Germany is considered to have a high tech industry).

    Bottom line is: A lot of things happening in Germany right now remind me of former communist times and we have a conservative government. It started to be that way after the unification, I get the feeling that many Germans even agree to these changes because even in the conservative community, people are quite open to these ideas. Sooner or later, this will bite everybody in the ass. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    In the end, we found out why so many "restrictions" were in place: To avoid making the "poorer" kids feel bad.

    This is already socialism, sorry to say that.

    Not really, but., Smiley

     


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SoCal Alan:
    RC:
    In the end, we found out why so many "restrictions" were in place: To avoid making the "poorer" kids feel bad.

    This is already socialism, sorry to say that.

    Not really, but., Smiley

     

    Because of 10 kids, 90 kids have to "suffer"? Really? Better solution (it would also teach the kids to share): Let the 90 kids have their toys with them and some of them can share them with the remaining 10 kids. My daughter's friend used her iPad Mini to contact her parents through Skype, this is what I consider friendship, not forbidding everybody to carry their gadgets just to avoid some kids feeling bad. You should see how happy some of my son's friends are when they come to our home and play with all the gadgetry. Of course it ends when they get home but my son really is OK with sharing and I think this is the best way. Both sides have fun.

    Now back to topic...sorry for hijacking this thread. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC, you don't have private schools in Germany where children are more or less of equal socioeconomic background?

    Personally I am not a big fan of such schools because I believe that through interaction at various levels children become more versatile in social skills and get more equipped for adult life. But if things are so extreme they could be something for parents to think about.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Well, it's becoming interesting ;)

    I personally don't thInk that talking about the social impact of this kind of cars is hijacking the thread. it is certainly a very important topic in many countries. It took me, literally, years to convince my wife to let me buy a super car. I went through the RS6 first because it "looked" normal. I'm happy with my current choice, but it was heavily driven by social implications rather than technical and economic ones.

    One of the problems we are facing is the confusion between envy and proper social concern and decency. It is one thing not to throw your money into someone face, it is another to have to be ashamed because you've done good. I earned my cars, I worked, risked, struggled and succeeded ... for now at least :)) Luck played a role too of course. As good as you can be we all need a bit of luck every now and then.

    The dealer suggested to be mindful of cars following me home, not to stop if the slightly hit me and just use the Kasko. For safety reasons. And I live in Milan, not Iran!!!

    Porsche has managed to "blend in" slightly better than others.

    As to tickets. Average speed measuring between tolls is an urban myth. The average speed is taken by the "Tutor" system, the one switched off during the day. And yes, being nice goes a long way not to be fined. I've never been fined in person, but I'm a former Police lieutanant. That might help ;)

    One last comment. In this day and age how does a teacher keep his/her work without understanding the huge advantages of a kindle or iPad?!? I'm currently writing on an iPad at Munich airport! Didn't have to bring tons of books or DVDs or notebooks to write on. Just a charger!

    I think Porsche should do more to integrate those devices into the car. Audi and Mercedes are already doing that.

    And off to boarding :))

    Till next one :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Regarding the Aventador: Well...your wife is very similar to mine. When I wanted to get a Ferrari F12 (had an excellent offer, almost couldn't resist), my wife threatened me with divorce. Smiley Same goes to my Lamborghini Gallardo craving a couple of years ago, no exotics in our neighborhood. My wife was (as always? Smiley) right, I can somehow "justify" the Porsche cars now but a Lambo or a Ferrari? Impossible. Just recently my son's best friend kind of started to ignore my son because he found out that we have a 991 Turbo S. No kidding. Of course they are kids and friends come and go but my son felt very hurt. My son never said something about the car in school (we taught our kids to shut up about our cars, vacations, etc. for good reasons) but another school kid in his class lives in our neighborhood and told everybody about the car...so... Smiley Another example: My daughter's best friend asked my daughter if she wants to come to the Circus with her because she has free tickets. When my daughter wanted to go, her friend told her not to forget money for the ticket. My daughter asked her friend about the free tickets and you know what her friend told her? "You are rich, you don't need a free ticket, I gave it to a relative." Smiley My daughter was devastated. As you can see, discrimination works both ways. Smiley

    When ever I read you talking about Germany I feel like I'm on a different continent completely. Not all of Europe is like that, the region were I live is still like its always have been. I have no problem using the 911, taking my daughter too school with it of I want to, leaving it parked everywere, drive it to work, I can't remember ever getting a bad vibe from others. I don't need to hide anything. Teachers in school are normal, they like technology, they don't care about what the parents have or don't have, etc. Kids in school have no problems with what other kids have (its a private school and they all pretty much have similar socieconomic status), and I get along great with other kids parents, some are close friends, and things like driving a 911 is not negative, if any you get a compliment here and there, etc.

    Hopefully things won't ever change, because what you mention that you have to put up with is crazy and sad that a society is headed that direction... I can see why you would want to move to the US. That said I have actually lived in the US, even in Miami, and not only as an adult but as a child, so I adpated completely, in fact you could not tell me from a born american kid in any way, had the same tastes, customs, interests, spoke the same language exactly the same, same religion, even same passport, etc. Being able to compare here and there both as a kid and as an adult, and this is subjective and fifferent to each one's circumstances, I would not want to "live" in the US, great for vacation, great for university, etc, but not to live if I had the choice, it would be one of my toop choices in the world of course, but not the number 1, definately not a place were I would want my kids to grow, especially now a days.

    That said if I had to move to the US, my choice would be Florida, but not Miami, I would choose a smaller Florida town with good comunications, fairly homogeneus population, more traditional values, and above average socioeconomics... and on the coast of course.

    Funny thing is people in Germany and other places in Europe may look at higher income people in a bad way and acuse them of being bad people for it whitout knowing them, meanwhile its the higher income citizens that pay for healthcare and eductaion out of their own pocket and at the same time pay for those other people's healthcare and kid's eductaion, and contribute a higher percentage of their work's pay to society... and they got the nerve to criticise richer people?? its thanks to them that they have the welfare state that they have, who create the jobs in the ocuntry, who bring wealth into the country, etc... they want to know how is a country without richer people? let them live in North Korea for a while Smiley

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