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    Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    Porsche recalls 1475 Panamera Turbo S, Turbo Powerkit and Cayenne Powerkit worldwide because of a possible serious issue with the installed "titan" turbochargers. The impeller can brake during operation, causing power loss, oil loss and blue oil fumes.

    The turbochargers will be exchanged completely for new ones with Inconel impellers.

    It takes around 11-15 hours to perform this exchange operation, so the car may be stuck at least 2 days at the dealership.

    The following models are affected:

    Panamera Turbo S  (production 27th April 2011 to 22nd May 2012)

    Panamera Turbo Powerkit (production 23rd July 2010 to 20th December 2011)


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    To withstand the very high temperatures. How was this "small detail" allowed to escape the development and testing?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    So I guess we now know what issue held your PTS back at the factory so long?
    BTW, any chance that owners can get the original titan impellers as a presse-papier or so? :-D


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    Joost:

    So I guess we now know what issue held your PTS back at the factory so long?
    BTW, any chance that owners can get the original titan impellers as a presse-papier or so? :-D

    Now it seems I can say it: My car has modified (original housing but different custom-built impellers) turbo chargers.

    I was kind of a beta tester... Smiley

    The new turbochargers will be slightly different but with Inconel impellers instead of Ti/Al ones.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    RC:

    Porsche recalls 1475 Panamera Turbo S, Turbo Powerkit and Cayenne Powerkit worldwide because of a possible serious issue with the installed "titan" turbochargers. The impeller can brake during operation, causing power loss, oil loss and blue oil 

    Is that like a stalling issue ? Smiley

     


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    Well,

    the supplier usually develops and produces the components according to the manufacturers specs and requirements. Without further background information I would hesitate to put the blame on BW alone. Maybe someone can shed more light on that?


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    Ferdie:

    Well,

    the supplier usually develops and produces the components according to the manufacturers specs and requirements. Without further background information I would hesitate to put the blame on BW alone. Maybe someone can shed more light on that?

    +1

    Maybe BW gained the award mentioned in the other thread partly as a result of the way that it has dealt with this issue when it did come to light.  Smiley

    It's very easy to jump to the wrong conclusions without knowing any background information.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    I have to apologize but Borg Warner is not the manufacturer of the "titan" turbocharger. MHI is. Sorry about that. frown

    This happens when false information is passed on from person to person without being verified (which is kind of difficult because Porsche often uses code numbers to "mask" manufacturers and the Porsche part numbers aren't helpful to identify the manufacturer).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    RC, will Porsche change the T/C on your car with the wholly new version as per the recall? Or the modification to the impellers already done, has you covered?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    reginos:

    RC, will Porsche change the T/C on your car with the wholly new version as per the recall? Or the modification to the impellers already done, has you covered?

    Mods have been done already and as a bonus, I can keep them. Smiley

    There is a certain benefit from that... Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    RC:

    Porsche recalls 1475 Panamera Turbo S, Turbo Powerkit and Cayenne Powerkit worldwide because of a possible serious issue with the installed "titan" turbochargers. The impeller can brake during operation, causing power loss, oil loss and blue oil fumes.

    The turbochargers will be exchanged completely for new ones with Inconel impellers.

    It takes around 11-15 hours to perform this exchange operation, so the car may be stuck at least 2 days at the dealership.

    The following models are affected:

    Panamera Turbo S  (production 27th April 2011 to 22nd May 2012)

    Panamera Turbo Powerkit (production 23rd July 2010 to 20th December 2011)


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    The Panamera Turbo S/Kit Series are one of the tops price wise. Thats not the best thing for Porsches reputation.

    On the other hand they made this recall in time and proved a responsible behave. This seems to be better for the resale value of all Panamera Turbo S/Kit. I just wonder if  the mods due to the recall will be the same as the FL modsSmiley


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    Well, I think it is too early to speculate about the facelift but I am pretty sure that the titan impeller is done on the Turbo/S.

    I am actually very surprised that Porsche decided to go for MHI turbo chargers. This is a little bit unusual, considering the big experience other "typical" turbo charger manufacturers like Borg Warner (here we go again) and Garrett have.

    Maybe MHI promised something others couldn't do?  Or they were just cheaper? We'll never know.

    Here is what I found out (as an additional information, not sure this helps though):

    The MHI turbo chargers used on the Turbo S/Powerkit are type TD04HL-18T turbo chargers.

    The HL (shaft & wheel designation) actually means that the inducer side of the compressor wheel is larger and the exducer side is also larger than usual. The 18T is the compressor wheel designation.

    I could continue by talking about the standard specs of this charger but I have to admit that I am a little bit surprised that Porsche didn't use something more sophisticated on the flagship model.

    Which leaves me to believe that something more sophisticated wasn't really needed.

    I am also curious why Porsche didn't actually adapt the VTG turbo charger technology for their Panamera top models.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    RC:

    I am also curious why Porsche didn't actually adapt the VTG turbo charger technology for their Panamera top models.

    There's less benefit on an engine with a larger cubic capacity than on the smaller (3600cc) 911 Turbo's engine, since the difference in torque output between no-boost and full-boost conditions will be less pronounced for the larger engine, so turbo lag is less of an issue.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    fritz:
    RC:

    I am also curious why Porsche didn't actually adapt the VTG turbo charger technology for their Panamera top models.

    There's less benefit on an engine with a larger cubic capacity than on the smaller (3600cc) 911 Turbo's engine, since the difference in torque output between no-boost and full-boost conditions will be less pronounced for the larger engine, so turbo lag is less of an issue.


    That´s my understanding as well. Those VTG turbochargers, especially on gasoline engines, are complex and have to endure significant temperatures. Guess that Porsche wants to gain more experience with them first before transferring that technology to the V8 engines.

    MHI is not the only manufacturer of titan impellers in turbochargers but might be the first one that ventures out into this field of high-performance gasoline engines. The problem might not even have occurred in development since only certain load conditions and driving scenarios might lead to the above mentioned fatigue of components. It does not even have to occur in a driving scenario with high power output and high engine temperatures but at comparatively modest throttle applications yet changing turbocharger loads or just a high number of cold starts (and therefore temperature changes). These conditions might not have been fully explored during the development stage but experienced during pre- and early-production testing in regular traffic.

    As I said before, it would be great to gather some more background information about the choice of MHI turbochargers and the specific issue that has occurred on early-production cars. 


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    fritz:
    RC:

    I am also curious why Porsche didn't actually adapt the VTG turbo charger technology for their Panamera top models.

    There's less benefit on an engine with a larger cubic capacity than on the smaller (3600cc) 911 Turbo's engine, since the difference in torque output between no-boost and full-boost conditions will be less pronounced for the larger engine, so turbo lag is less of an issue.

    Thanks. Interesting read. Never thought of that. Smiley

    There is however a slightly more pronounced turbo lag with the inconel impellers on my car (comparison with the titan impellers on the Turbo Powerkit factory loaner I drove for over a month). This could have something to do with the fact that they used the original housing but exchanged the Titan impeller for one made of Iconel, it was a fast fix to make sure I can get my car as soon as possible.

    According to some explanations, the Iconel impeller is heavier than the Titan one and therefore turbo lag is bigger but it also seems to have an advantage. Due to the fact that the Iconel impeller is thinner than the Titan one, the exhaust flow is faster, meaning a faster boost pressure buildup, which should improve performance. This is valid for my car only though since the retrofit kit for the current recall apparently consists of slightly different designed turbo chargers.

    Speaking of benefits... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche Panamera Turbo S & Turbo Powerkit RECALL (07/2012)

    Inconel alloys are typically used in high temperature applications - jet engines being one. So while we may never know the real issue with the original turbo chargers, one might conclude it is due to high exhaust temperatures.


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


     
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