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    Re: the RMS issue continues with the 997(S)?

    Quote:
    DEVEK GT said:


    Right now, I'm looking at a lag/surge Cayenne or an RMS/lemon 997 ... life's tough, I know ... but is there a basis for either accusation to either vehicle?

    Adam

    ps. please advise before year-end ...




    Porsche knows how to design and mfgr cars. They eventually figure out how to fix the new model quirks.

    That said, if you live close to a dealer/service dept, get the car enjoy it and hope for the best. If I lived a hundred miles from a dealership I'd be more anxious about how big a time and resources suck I might be getting into with the new models.

    Also, keep in mind the obvious: the internet is a big magnet for people having problems and not that attractive to people having no problems at all.

    I hope this makes sense.




    Re: the RMS issue continues with the 997(S)?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    DEVEK GT said:


    Right now, I'm looking at a lag/surge Cayenne or an RMS/lemon 997 ... life's tough, I know ... but is there a basis for either accusation to either vehicle?

    Adam

    ps. please advise before year-end ...




    Also, keep in mind the obvious: the internet is a big magnet for people having problems and not that attractive to people having no problems at all.





    how is that obvious? heck, not only does it not sound obvious but it sounds silly. there are many more people without problems around here and most other pcar internet message boards than those w/ problems. do they show up because it's unattractive to them but those with problems show up less since it's a magnet?

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ben, there is no confirmed RMS issue YET.
    All defective 997 Carrera S 3.8 l engines have to be sent back to Porsche for analysis, right now NO dealer repairs are approved.
    So if a dealer claims a 997 Carrera S has a RMS issue, he can't be right because he can't analyze the engine and has to send it to Porsche. That simple.

    And there is no M96 3.8 engine, only a M97 3.8.

    To Nick: the hesitation has not been denied by Porsche, they just claim it is the original setup of the car as intended by development. They also claim that customers asked for this setup and I have to blame a little bit US customers for this setup because it was THEM who made complaints about a too aggressive throttle response on the Cayenne S at the beginning. I salute the soccer moms...

    Please guys, stay with facts, no rumors.



    RC you alleging that Porsche deliberately set the Cayenne up for throttle hesitation is nothing more than rumor. My dealer knows its a problem and has attempted to fix it on several occasions. If what you say is true, why not tell me that is the way the car should run???

    Also if what you say is true, then why doesn't Porsche officially address the complaints by issuing a statement confirming that the throttle lag/hesitation was deliberately program by the factory.

    Here is a classic case of once again blaming the customer (soccor moms) for the engineering failures of Porsche! BTW I have one of the very first Cayenne and according to what you wrote I should not have the hesitation problem.

    Re: the RMS issue continues with the 997(S)?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    DEVEK GT said:


    Right now, I'm looking at a lag/surge Cayenne or an RMS/lemon 997 ... life's tough, I know ... but is there a basis for either accusation to either vehicle?

    Adam

    ps. please advise before year-end ...




    Also, keep in mind the obvious: the internet is a big magnet for people having problems and not that attractive to people having no problems at all.





    how is that obvious? heck, not only does it not sound obvious but it sounds silly. there are many more people without problems around here and most other pcar internet message boards than those w/ problems. do they show up because it's unattractive to them but those with problems show up less since it's a magnet?

    .

    It's obvious because when people have problems with their purchases they will go thru all the effort to do whatever they can On The Internet to solve them or let them be known (it's a magnet for their grievences).

    People with no problems with their purchases enjoy their purchases and do not go to the sometimes considerable trouble to find the appropriate forums to express their happiness with the product.

    That's what I mean by obvious.

    People expect stuff to work, when it does work they don't do much to congratulate the mfgr.

    When it doesn't work as advertised they get busy on the phone or the internet.

    Therefore you're gonna hear alot more problems with products compared to praises.

    That's a fact of modern life, right?

    Re: the RMS issue continues with the 997(S)?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    DEVEK GT said:


    Right now, I'm looking at a lag/surge Cayenne or an RMS/lemon 997 ... life's tough, I know ... but is there a basis for either accusation to either vehicle?

    Adam

    ps. please advise before year-end ...




    Also, keep in mind the obvious: the internet is a big magnet for people having problems and not that attractive to people having no problems at all.





    how is that obvious? heck, not only does it not sound obvious but it sounds silly. there are many more people without problems around here and most other pcar internet message boards than those w/ problems. do they show up because it's unattractive to them but those with problems show up less since it's a magnet?

    .

    It's obvious because when people have problems with their purchases they will go thru all the effort to do whatever they can On The Internet to solve them or let them be known (it's a magnet for their grievences).

    People with no problems with their purchases enjoy their purchases and do not go to the sometimes considerable trouble to find the appropriate forums to express their happiness with the product.

    That's what I mean by obvious.

    People expect stuff to work, when it does work they don't do much to congratulate the mfgr.

    When it doesn't work as advertised they get busy on the phone or the internet.

    Therefore you're gonna hear alot more problems with products compared to praises.

    That's a fact of modern life, right?



    I'm still trying to square:

    "also, keep in mind the obvious: the internet is a big magnet for people having problems and not that attractive to people having no problems at all."

    with the fact there are a lot more people "having no problems at all" on the internet (presumably the boards on which were are currently communicating) than those "having problems"?

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ben, there is no confirmed RMS issue YET.
    All defective 997 Carrera S 3.8 l engines have to be sent back to Porsche for analysis, right now NO dealer repairs are approved.
    So if a dealer claims a 997 Carrera S has a RMS issue, he can't be right because he can't analyze the engine and has to send it to Porsche. That simple.

    And there is no M96 3.8 engine, only a M97 3.8.

    To Nick: the hesitation has not been denied by Porsche, they just claim it is the original setup of the car as intended by development. They also claim that customers asked for this setup and I have to blame a little bit US customers for this setup because it was THEM who made complaints about a too aggressive throttle response on the Cayenne S at the beginning. I salute the soccer moms...

    Please guys, stay with facts, no rumors.



    The "facts" is that we had already a member of this board who had a blown engine on his 997 S. Ever since 1997 the horror blown engine stories are to much to count. I had two friends who had blown engines on a 19000Km 2000 Boxster S and a 60000Km 2000 996 Carrera. There's no excuse for Porsche not solving this problem in almost nine years of engines production. Hope the number of blown engine on M97 may be minimal or none, but I really don't thrust anymore in those M96 and M97 engines, apart from the GT3 and Turbo engines, those are indeed bullet proof.

    J.Seven

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    RC you alleging that Porsche deliberately set the Cayenne up for throttle hesitation is nothing more than rumor. My dealer knows its a problem and has attempted to fix it on several occasions. If what you say is true, why not tell me that is the way the car should run???

    Also if what you say is true, then why doesn't Porsche officially address the complaints by issuing a statement confirming that the throttle lag/hesitation was deliberately program by the factory.

    Here is a classic case of once again blaming the customer (soccor moms) for the engineering failures of Porsche! BTW I have one of the very first Cayenne and according to what you wrote I should not have the hesitation problem.



    RC is right and I believe Porsche did intentionally design a bit of lag with their throttle set up. Why would they do that you ask? If you've ever gone off road in the manner that you see in the Cayenne ads/brochures, you'd realize that if you have 2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side of your $70K-$90K SUV, the last thing you want is a throttle that's as sensitive as a 911. Having a bit of throttle tip in lets you better modulate the throttle while negotiating off road boulders, logs, etc. As you go over these types of obstacles with your foot on the accelerator, you inevitably bounce up and down - the motion of your body if transferred to a throttle with quick response would, again, be a bad design idea. In the future, perhaps Porsche should offer a setting that's tied into the differentials so that the throttle action could be tweaked for speeds of less than 10mph. As it is however, I believe it's designed correctly and intelligently for the intended purpose. I guess you and the other soccer moms don't appreciate the off road capabilitites. If I were you, I'd trade the Cayenne for a Lexus RX330 or BMW X5. Or you could wait until Ferrari, I mean Maserati offers its SUV in the next few years.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    RC you alleging that Porsche deliberately set the Cayenne up for throttle hesitation is nothing more than rumor. My dealer knows its a problem and has attempted to fix it on several occasions. If what you say is true, why not tell me that is the way the car should run???

    Also if what you say is true, then why doesn't Porsche officially address the complaints by issuing a statement confirming that the throttle lag/hesitation was deliberately program by the factory.

    Here is a classic case of once again blaming the customer (soccor moms) for the engineering failures of Porsche! BTW I have one of the very first Cayenne and according to what you wrote I should not have the hesitation problem.



    RC is right and I believe Porsche did intentionally design a bit of lag with their throttle set up. Why would they do that you ask? If you've ever gone off road in the manner that you see in the Cayenne ads/brochures, you'd realize that if you have 2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side of your $70K-$90K SUV, the last thing you want is a throttle that's as sensitive as a 911. Having a bit of throttle tip in lets you better modulate the throttle while negotiating off road boulders, logs, etc. As you go over these types of obstacles with your foot on the accelerator, you inevitably bounce up and down - the motion of your body if transferred to a throttle with quick response would, again, be a bad design idea. In the future, perhaps Porsche should offer a setting that's tied into the differentials so that the throttle action could be tweaked for speeds of less than 10mph. As it is however, I believe it's designed correctly and intelligently for the intended purpose. I guess you and the other soccer moms don't appreciate the off road capabilitites. If I were you, I'd trade the Cayenne for a Lexus RX330 or BMW X5. Or you could wait until Ferrari, I mean Maserati offers its SUV
    in the next few years.



    sorry jeff, but i think that's absurd. having "throttle tip" while "2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side" (especially on an incline) causes you to roll backwards (uncontrollably without a stab on the brakes). what the "throttle tip" does instead is cause a "surge" of power when the truck "finally" responds to throttle imput which is not what i'd consider the appropriate throttle modulation for anything - especially this application. additionally, your defense of porsche's design by citing a condition in which maybe 2% of all retail bought cayennes ever see more than a few % of the total time driven seems further absurd.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    RC you alleging that Porsche deliberately set the Cayenne up for throttle hesitation is nothing more than rumor. My dealer knows its a problem and has attempted to fix it on several occasions. If what you say is true, why not tell me that is the way the car should run???

    Also if what you say is true, then why doesn't Porsche officially address the complaints by issuing a statement confirming that the throttle lag/hesitation was deliberately program by the factory.

    Here is a classic case of once again blaming the customer (soccor moms) for the engineering failures of Porsche! BTW I have one of the very first Cayenne and according to what you wrote I should not have the hesitation problem.




    If the "hesitation" is an engineering error, why does it almost completely dissapear when you turn off the PSM? Any conclusive explenation, Nick?
    I know that some of you guys suspect me of working for Porsche, some kind of 007 on the internet for them. This is BS, I had myself my issues with Porsche and just lately, we had some pretty tough "exchanges" which surely didn't make me look as a friendly type of guy to some of them.

    I wouldn't claim what I said if it wasn't true. Porsche is aware of the hesitation and you would be highly surprised if I'd tell you to whom I talked at PAG about this issue and how many people I made to be mad at me. And the "discussion" is still going on and I have no clue where it will end. One thing seems to be sure: I don't see any solution for this generation of the Cayenne, maybe for the next with a Chrono Sport type solution package.

    And yes, US customers (ask your dealer, there has been a recall for the Cayenne S because of that) made serious complaints about the TOO aggressive throttle response on the Cayenne S when the first Cayenne showed up in the US.
    This is why Porsche changed the overall throttle setup.

    But I don't blame only a few US customers who might have forced Porsche to go a different way regarding the throttle issue. I blame ALL Cayenne customers who aren't fully satisfied with the throttle/shifting response but still don't make an official complaint about it to their dealers.
    And I also blame mechanics and dealers who don't take customer criticism seriously, resulting in the lack of necessary feeback to Porsche about the whole issue. If the dealers don't report problems, Porsche has no way how to know about them. A few customers who complaint directly to Porsche don't help much.

    It is also funny that some dealers try to "fix" the hesitation. Why funny? Because there is NOTHING to fix. There is NO WAY how to fix it because it is meant to be like that. It is hard to understand and I'm still not accepting it but if dealers promise customers a fix or try to fix this issue, they're just fooling the customer...or they aren't just informed well enough. That simple, as sad as this might sound.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    RC: Is this Cayenne hesitation problem a throtle profile software issue or something else? Egas is driven by a software pedal profile that should not be difficult to change. PAG could even offer several profile choices and allow customers to pick their preferred profile.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    If the throttle on the Cayenne is an electronic accelerator pedal like the 997, then maybe they should go back to a cable. The pedal is just not right, it's too Playstation.

    And, maybe those few drops of oil on my garage floor, the day the engine blew, were from the RMS.

    jb

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Greetings all,
    I'm new to this board, Ben suggested I check it out, esp re the RMS rumor. Here are the facts as I experienced them; I took my C4S to the dealer for some service type work, they had a black 997s in the shop with about 15 guys underneath it, I asked the service mgr(don't really know/care about his exact title) he told me it had a RMS leak at 2000k. I didn't go over and look or pry at all, afew days later I was back in (wheels messed up) he said it was fixed, I didn't persue it as he seemed not to want to chit chat. About a week or so later I mentioned it in a thread and all hell broke loose!
    I have no idea what was really wrong with the car(or care) if anything, and I'm certainly not going to try and obtain the dudes VIN to post as was suggested!
    If anybody was guessing it was the service guy who felt obliged to spill it to me. I'm not going to post his name or dealership as not to embarass the poor guy any more.
    I have no intrest in starting rumors, I was just passing something along. I'll think twice in the future.
    However, if anybody thinks that the RMS issue has been solved, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you!
    BTW this seems like a great site, but how do you post pics in your threads?
    Chris

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Figured it out!

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    sorry jeff, but i think that's absurd. having "throttle tip" while "2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side" (especially on an incline) causes you to roll backwards (uncontrollably without a stab on the brakes). what the "throttle tip" does instead is cause a "surge" of power when the truck "finally" responds to throttle imput which is not what i'd consider the appropriate throttle modulation for anything - especially this application. additionally, your defense of porsche's design by citing a condition in which maybe 2% of all retail bought cayennes ever see more than a few % of the total time driven seems further absurd.



    Take an offroad course (or several as I've done) sometime and maybe it will make sense to you. Interesting that you talk about 'something only a few %' would care about but yet Porsche's aren't intended for the masses are they? Oh, wait, I forgot - they ARE intended for the masses and they're disposable too. Glad that you're not one of the CGT owners who doesn't take advantage of the car's 205mph top speed ALL of the time.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Welcome, Chris. I appreciate your detailled report of what you saw. The problem is: to my knowledge, Porsche doesn't allow dealers to do any engine repairs yet. All defective engines have to be send back to Porsche for further analysis. This is a standard procedure on a new model and new type of engine until Porsche figures out how many problems occur how often and how to find a permanent fix. It can't be excluded that there was, is or will be a RMS issue on the M97 engine, even if I heard that it is very unlikely due to some changed production, material and mounting procedures. But of course, as always when humans are involved, sh.t happens. But as long as we don't have an OFFICIAL confirmation from somebody who really had a confirmed RMS issue, we shouldn't start to bash the new 997.
    I agree that even the new 997 has some issues, like the lack of power (yes, the Carrera S deserved at least 380 HP and not the ridiculous 355 it has now) or that ugly wart on the dash, the chrono sport clock (NOT the chrono sport functionality itself!). But I own my 997 Carrera S now for almost 6 months and all I can say is...WOW. I'm in love with this car and I never thought I would say that about a car with "only" 355 HP. My former Porsche was a RS-Tuning tuned 996 Turbo with around 560 HP and lots of suspension mods, so you get my point.
    It is just unfair to criticize a car for something which hasn't been really confirmed yet officially.

    Just my 2 cents...

    BTW: we also have a picture gallery http://www.rennteam.com/gallery where you can post your pictures if you want to. Whenever you want to show us your picture(s), you just have to include a direct link to the picture in your post. Voila... We try to make it easier in the future but right now, we're happy that everything seems to run smoothly after some months of a horrible design and some serious problems.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    RC do I believe you are embedded with Porsche? YES! Do I believe you would deliberately pass on false information? NO!

    Your problem is in order to maintain open lines of communications with Porsche much of what they tell you you accept. Otherwise, they will not tell you anything.

    Porsche over the pass several years has produced a lot of cars and any acknowledgement on their part of problems with a model translates to substantial loss in Euro's. Ford, GM and MB play the same game but since they are bigger, they can withstand the hit more so than Porsche.

    In the case of throttle delay/lag and RMS they have not been forthcoming. My Cayenne had the lag problem whether PMS was on or off. The last time I took it in for the problem the claimed to fix three items which since then the lag has been reduced substantially but not all together.

    Porsche is fudging on the issue and fighting/kicking to prevent from acknowledging a well known problem. First it is the customer fault and now it is the dealer who is pulling the wool over our eyes. Is Porsche ever wrong?

    Tell you what. Have Porsche or one of its emplyees who post
    on this site tells us officially that the lag problem is program by the factory and they fixed the RMS problem with the "new" 997 engine. They should state it in the official capacity.

    Let them stand up and be counted. I suspect I and the rest of us will wait until hell freezes over for the statement.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Nick, Porsche doesn't get involved in internet discussions and you know that. For a good reason...

    I have the written statement regarding the hesitation issue, believe it or not. I won't publish it because it is part of an information exchange process which should be somehow considered confidential. And be sure that they would sue me immediately if I'd make statements which aren't true.
    The only reason why I mention it is the fact that I think we (me and Porsche) came almost to a point (regarding the hesitation issue on the Cayenne Turbo) where there is no room for further talks anymore. I have my standpoint of view and they have theirs. And trust me if I tell you: we both aren't happy right now.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    sorry jeff, but i think that's absurd. having "throttle tip" while "2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side" (especially on an incline) causes you to roll backwards (uncontrollably without a stab on the brakes). what the "throttle tip" does instead is cause a "surge" of power when the truck "finally" responds to throttle imput which is not what i'd consider the appropriate throttle modulation for anything - especially this application. additionally, your defense of porsche's design by citing a condition in which maybe 2% of all retail bought cayennes ever see more than a few % of the total time driven seems further absurd.



    Take an offroad course (or several as I've done) sometime and maybe it will make sense to you. Interesting that you talk about 'something only a few %' would care about but yet Porsche's aren't intended for the masses are they? Oh, wait, I forgot - they ARE intended for the masses and they're disposable too. Glad that you're not one of the CGT owners who doesn't take advantage of the car's 205mph top speed ALL of the time.



    What I posted Jeff was that less than 2% of all retail Cayenne owners use the car EVER in the off road example you used for why the car "should" suck arse 100% of the time. Incidentally, the point was also that even those 2% don't use the thing for your exampled use more than a few % of their total usage either. IOW, it was a lame arse attempt to cite an extremely low usage type example to justify why the truck should have inappropriate throttle response for the high usage type examples which more closely resembled the buyers intended use when they purchased the thing.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Nick, Porsche doesn't get involved in internet discussions and you know that. For a good reason...

    I have the written statement regarding the hesitation issue, believe it or not. I won't publish it because it is part of an information exchange process which should be somehow considered confidential. And be sure that they would sue me immediately if I'd make statements which aren't true.
    The only reason why I mention it is the fact that I think we (me and Porsche) came almost to a point (regarding the hesitation issue on the Cayenne Turbo) where there is no room for further talks anymore. I have my standpoint of view and they have theirs. And trust me if I tell you: we both aren't happy right now.



    I understand. Please do not loose sight of the fact that Porsche is not the same company it was years ago. They are on a different mission and want to play with the big boys. Thus they often act like them to the detriment of their devoted customer base.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Comrade nberry, Porsche has been stubborn for decades. They just didnt start to get hinkey from wanting to compete with the big boys for truck sales!

    I could list all of the design errors they claimed were actually customer faults model year by model year, but doing so would take too much bandwidth and reveal my advancing years!

    Believe me,sometimes I think that Porsches crest should be changed to a mule! If a tiny producer like Ferrari can get
    so many quality things right all of the time lately, why can't Porsche aspire to do better?

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    RC,
    Danke for the kind intro. Please, I'm not bashing 997's, personally, I don't think it's enough of an upgrade to dump my C4S, but that will change with the 997TT!
    I will try and upload some pics of my car.
    Chris

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Rc, the fact that a true RMS would have been sent to Deutschland rather than fixed by the dealer should imply that this case probably wasn't an RMS afterall. I didn't realize porsche applied that policy to that model(I thought only CGT's, etc)
    But why are so many up in arms about this; because of the terrible RMS experience by 996 owners and porsches' response I would think. Just my .02

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    sorry jeff, but i think that's absurd. having "throttle tip" while "2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side" (especially on an incline) causes you to roll backwards (uncontrollably without a stab on the brakes). what the "throttle tip" does instead is cause a "surge" of power when the truck "finally" responds to throttle imput which is not what i'd consider the appropriate throttle modulation for anything - especially this application. additionally, your defense of porsche's design by citing a condition in which maybe 2% of all retail bought cayennes ever see more than a few % of the total time driven seems further absurd.



    Take an offroad course (or several as I've done) sometime and maybe it will make sense to you. Interesting that you talk about 'something only a few %' would care about but yet Porsche's aren't intended for the masses are they? Oh, wait, I forgot - they ARE intended for the masses and they're disposable too. Glad that you're not one of the CGT owners who doesn't take advantage of the car's 205mph top speed ALL of the time.



    What I posted Jeff was that less than 2% of all retail Cayenne owners use the car EVER in the off road example you used for why the car "should" suck arse 100% of the time. Incidentally, the point was also that even those 2% don't use the thing for your exampled use more than a few % of their total usage either. IOW, it was a lame arse attempt to cite an extremely low usage type example to justify why the truck should have inappropriate throttle response for the high usage type examples which more closely resembled the buyers intended use when they purchased the thing.



    Oh come on - LISTEN to yourself!! How many of us NEED, INTEND or will EVER use the top speed capability, true handling capability, etc. of ANY Porsche model. I'm glad you're not a Porsche product planner. Otherwise the Cayenne would handle and drive like a Chrysler minivan because, as you put it, that's how the majority of their drivers will use it. Sheesh!

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    sorry jeff, but i think that's absurd. having "throttle tip" while "2 wheels off the ground and boulders on either side" (especially on an incline) causes you to roll backwards (uncontrollably without a stab on the brakes). what the "throttle tip" does instead is cause a "surge" of power when the truck "finally" responds to throttle imput which is not what i'd consider the appropriate throttle modulation for anything - especially this application. additionally, your defense of porsche's design by citing a condition in which maybe 2% of all retail bought cayennes ever see more than a few % of the total time driven seems further absurd.



    Take an offroad course (or several as I've done) sometime and maybe it will make sense to you. Interesting that you talk about 'something only a few %' would care about but yet Porsche's aren't intended for the masses are they? Oh, wait, I forgot - they ARE intended for the masses and they're disposable too. Glad that you're not one of the CGT owners who doesn't take advantage of the car's 205mph top speed ALL of the time.



    What I posted Jeff was that less than 2% of all retail Cayenne owners use the car EVER in the off road example you used for why the car "should" suck arse 100% of the time. Incidentally, the point was also that even those 2% don't use the thing for your exampled use more than a few % of their total usage either. IOW, it was a lame arse attempt to cite an extremely low usage type example to justify why the truck should have inappropriate throttle response for the high usage type examples which more closely resembled the buyers intended use when they purchased the thing.



    Oh come on - LISTEN to yourself!! How many of us NEED, INTEND or will EVER use the top speed capability, true handling capability, etc. of ANY Porsche model. I'm glad you're not a Porsche product planner. Otherwise the Cayenne would handle and drive like a Chrysler minivan because, as you put it, that's how the majority of their drivers will use it. Sheesh!



    what exactly does top speed or true handling capability have to do with being able to access all (or any) of the throttle when making a left hand turn (especially from a rest) across traffic - or even a right hand turn from a stop sign into oncoming traffic - or trying to get in a hole on the highway before it closes?

    btw, i'm thrilled you are happy with your cayenne. obviously many of us here are not.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    So to sum up, we do not have a confirmed RMS issue on M97.

    RC, whether you work for Porsche or not (plausible deniability at its best), you perform a highly valuable service, for which I'm grateful. Your site is the best for informal data on the 997.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    btw, i'm thrilled you are happy with your cayenne. obviously many of us here are not.



    Who said I have a Cayenne? I said I've done offroad courses. Those were done in other folks' SUVs/Cayennes. I don't see the purpose of 12mpg vehicles to run to the dry cleaners, grocery store, etc. when my Mini Cooper S does that so well in SF.

    And I'm not trying to be combative. I'm simply saying that if you look at Porsche's late entry to the SUV market and what they set out to do, they had to make sure they nailed it for when the inevitable comparisons against Land Rovers, Jeeps, etc. began in the press during offroad excursions. In offroad situations, which admittedly almost NO Americans will ever encounter, the Cayenne is designed properly to get you thru some amazing conditions. As I've indicated above, the whole idea of an SUV is silly to me. A European sport wagon can be had with almost the same space, better handling, better mpg, etc.

    There was an indepth market research study done on why people buy SUV's. While people will tell you they like the perceived safety factor, styling, etc., the REAL reason uncovered in the study is that people identify the SUV with 'domination'. The researcher's recommendation to the automakers was to offer things like brush bars, tinted windows, and other such items/styling elements that convey a domineering presence. I'd be very curious to know what he'd find out if he surveyed sports car owners (P, F, Lambo, Corvette, etc.) as to what our TRUE motivations are for buying them.

    Bottom line, if you want better throttle response & similar handling, get an Audi RS6 Avant. It's similar money with better performance. You can't take it offroad though. If the throttle issue was a real 'problem', you wouldn't find the same issue on all Cayennes.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    btw, i'm thrilled you are happy with your cayenne. obviously many of us here are not.



    Who said I have a Cayenne?

    And I'm not trying to be combative.



    Are you schitting me?????? So what are you - just some guy with ZERO experience with the problem you're arguing doesn't exist with those of us who experience it daily? It takes a "special" kind of person to do that! When you finally get 5 sec of experience with what you're trying to debate us with, lemme know. Until then, your unexplainable attempts to minimize and refute the difficulties MANY of us who ACTUALLY own the thing are experiencing, is annoying - at best.

    Re: RMS, why an issue at all?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:

    I'd be very curious to know what he'd find out if he surveyed sports car owners (P, F, Lambo, Corvette, etc.) as to what our TRUE motivations are for buying them.



    There's a popular psychology book from the 1960s (whose name I cannot currently recall) that discussed consumer motivation for various products. I do remember, though, it found that red convertibles prompt thought of sex.

    Re: Cayenne and SUV usage, blah blah blah

    I hate to shatter your metro centric vehicle views, but not all of us live and play in cities where homeless people
    having chariot races with shopping carts is a normal sight.

    Lots of people actually frequently use the off road capabilities of their SUVs. For just the first year depreciation value of a Cayenne you can get a decent
    amount of hunting acreage in West Texas. For the price
    of a Cayenne Turbo you can even buy a farm near a small Nebraska town. Some people have both and use both.

    Not everymans dream is to own one cute little a car just
    to run shopping errands in San Francisco.

    Re: Cayenne and SUV usage, blah blah blah

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I hate to shatter your metro centric vehicle views, but not all of us live and play in cities where homeless people
    having chariot races with shopping carts is a normal sight.



    Umm, I do. Metro Washington, DC. Could you guys take it down a notch. Think of the children.

     
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