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    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time

    eclou:
    MKSGR:

    Very interesting benchmark figures for this track. Many thanks Smiley

     I think we are talking about the same video. However, most drifts look like power induced (he seems to drift while applying the throttle at the exit of the corners).

     BTW, what do you think of my thoughts about the track itself (sand, temperature etc.)? 


    Power induced drifts will still yield much less forward propulsion than a car with traction. It is almost like a car burning out at the start line of a drag race. It also as mentioned before overheats the tires and further reduces grip. I think for rallye purposes it is a more appropriate technique.

    You are correct about WS having some wind and dust/dirt issues. Usually though after a few runs the track line will be pretty clean. I have not driven WS but have heard it favors HP cars. Temps there can get warm in August, but California is much more temperate than say Texas or Arizona. With the heat though usually turbo cars suffer more because of heat soak which leads to boost and timing being pulled by the ECU. I make sure to run 104 octane to be safe.

     Just another point of reference the 911 cup cars can run mid 1:24-6 at Willow Springs.

    Cheers



    --

    track vid

    0-300kph

    chasing a 997GT2



    Thanks for the additonal input on "Willow Springs".

    BTW,  turbo cars suffer less (!) if the air temperature goes up: in that case the boost pressure is increased to compensate for the higher air temperature. This can be observed on the boost pressure indicator quite easily Smiley


    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times

    FYI, Automobile Magazine just named the GT-R their "Automobile of the Year"

    they say...

    "Not that Pretty.

    Rides like a Subway Car.

    Sounds like an Appliance.

    Weighs a Ton.

    and you know what?

    We're still naming it our automobile of the Year."

    Additional quotes from their staff who drove the car....

    It's super Mario, high intensity fun, and the speed/dollar quotient is tops.

    Wow,. Crazy fast. I love the meaty, direct steering and the rear-biased AWD system.

    On a good road, the GT-R's grip, explosive acceleration, and super-accurate steering make you feel like a hero.

    It's an astonishing performer.

    "Wildly impressive performance, and an incredible value for that level of performance.

    Launching the car is simply amazing, even on wet pavement.


    .So the GT-R apparently has gotten some following

    - BTW I am not one of them.


    --
    Best regards, Gordie Austin, TX ---------- '04 Boxster 550 SE (for sale) '09 C2S Cab (on order)

    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times

    Automobile magazine is not a high end magazine. If a car not in supercar price territory comes close in performance to more expensive ones, it HAS to win...

    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times

    Buckle up because I think I can settle this ;)

    The ring times are pretty meaningless, and nowhere near a science.  Nissan set up for months to achieve that ring time, and did so for marketing purposes.

    Take into account the power to weight ratios, the build quality and the longevity of components, looks, noise and everything else and clearly any 911 is a far superior car.  Where the Nissan beats it is software.  The Nissan has far superior software controlling the handling of the car.  If someone wants a car that will deceive them into thinking they are an expert driver, something that exceeds the Playstation experience, then hey look no further.  Personally I'd save myself £60K and buy the PS3 instead.  But then I don't have any delusions/hang ups over my lack of ability.

    But none of that is relevant.  How many of us buy cars to race against other cars on the road, or round the ring or any other circuit?  I certainly don't.  Neither do I buy a car to time myself lapping a circuit or any other journey.

    I bought a 911 because it has so much character and because it's just so much fun to drive.  It gives me a real thrill, and it's evocative of all those great 911s that went before it, right back to the old turbo poster I had on my bedroom wall as a kid.  I love driving my 911 because it offers a challenge, it's the closest thing to a living breathing car that I've yet encountered.  There are zillions of people out there who are quicker than me.  There are thousands of cars out there quicker than my 911.  I don't care.  At the end of every journey I have a smile on my face. 

    As for the motoring journalists... most of them are not far enough evolved from those confused adolescents that visit the bathroom for a cheap thrill reading the 0-60 times and other meaningless stats in the back pages of car mags alongside the obligatory adverts for chat lines and other filth.

    PS - every single time I leave my driveway, I do this full on hooligan fishtail out onto the road (possible whilst remaining under 4,000 rpm).  This is juvenile and I should probably be locked up.  I've been doing this for 2 1/2 years and in that times I've probably made 1,250 journeys, so that's AT LEAST ONE THOUSAND big fishtails.  Sometimes with PSM off.  My transmission has never broken.  The Porsche is clearly built to take this level of abuse.


    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time

    AUM:
    Quote:
    franki68 said:
    Isn't it irrelevant ? The NIssan has beaten the 997tt on every track that every magazine has tested it on,I think Porsche are actually embarrassing themselves with this.Every road test has preferred the gtr to the 997tt,surely Porsche should be addressing this issue by improving the 997tt and not sulking about it.



    This is an inconvenient truth that some people prefer to ignore: The GTR laps faster than the Turbo in all independent tests.

    It is no secret that I actually like the GT-R, especially since I think it delivers a lot of fun for its price tag and as a gadget freak, I just love the interior.

    On the other hand, I'm still waiting for THE independent test because the only magazine I really trust in this matter is SPORT AUTO. For a reason. Horst v. Saurma has a certain reputation among us sportscar lovers over here in Germany and he never disappointed us. I know there are people who think that he's a Porsche lover but this ain't true. He loves the Carrera GT he gets to drive around (who wouldn't?) but he is somebody who really puts a lot of heart and honor into the so called Supertest. His findings very often are similar to mine or to those of people who actually have a clue about these cars, so I really appreciate his opinion.

    I bet that he is going to love the GT-R in a way or another but at the same time, he won't hold back his harsh criticism and he will very likely wipe away the myth of a budget GT2 killer.

    Still: the performance of the GT-R is impressive for its price tag and no matter if this car does the Norschleife in 7:40 or 7:55 Min., for this kind of money, it is worth every cent. I just wish Nissan would have made the exterior a little bit nicer, it looks like a Playstation video game car.


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time

     Well, today they're claiming it's 7:26.70 (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/240169/)

    Sooner or later they're gonna issue a press release that the GT-R can go around the 'ring in 7' dead... at this rate, by 2010, it'll be faster than anything driven by anyone ever, ever. Ever.

    I have an idea. The motoring press of Japan an Europe should club together and buy one GT-R and one 997TT from a random dealer and set up a head to head. Rules as follows:

    • Each manufacturer, Porsche and Nissan supply one driver for their car.
    • Over the course of 1 week, the same week for both, the drivers are allowed any number of laps they like.
    • The only adjustments allowed are those that are available to the average joe at any dealership.
    • The two teams will share a common timing equipment set up.
    • Each car will have telemetry and data-logging equipment installed. Every lap will be recorded.
    • At the start of the event and end of everyday, at a set time, each car will be dyno'ed on the same rig. Each car will also be checked for weight just to make sure that nothing has been removed.
    • Both cars must use fuels that are commonly available but are allowed high-octane items. I think Shell sell 100RON in Germany.
    • Now, just for the heck of it, we can extend this a week longer and each manufacturer can use whatever tyres they like to set the best time on their best wheel/tyres combination.

    Well, hopefully that would settle it once and for all... surely...


    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time

    x838nwy:

     Well, today they're claiming it's 7:26.70 (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/240169/)

    Sooner or later they're gonna issue a press release that the GT-R can go around the 'ring in 7' dead... at this rate, by 2010, it'll be faster than anything driven by anyone ever, ever. Ever.

    I have an idea. The motoring press of Japan an Europe should club together and buy one GT-R and one 997TT from a random dealer and set up a head to head. Rules as follows:

    • Each manufacturer, Porsche and Nissan supply one driver for their car.
    • Over the course of 1 week, the same week for both, the drivers are allowed any number of laps they like.
    • The only adjustments allowed are those that are available to the average joe at any dealership.
    • The two teams will share a common timing equipment set up.
    • Each car will have telemetry and data-logging equipment installed. Every lap will be recorded.
    • At the start of the event and end of everyday, at a set time, each car will be dyno'ed on the same rig. Each car will also be checked for weight just to make sure that nothing has been removed.
    • Both cars must use fuels that are commonly available but are allowed high-octane items. I think Shell sell 100RON in Germany.
    • Now, just for the heck of it, we can extend this a week longer and each manufacturer can use whatever tyres they like to set the best time on their best wheel/tyres combination.

    Well, hopefully that would settle it once and for all... surely...

    The SportAuto Supertest will put an end to Nissan's marketing story in 53 chapters Smiley Should be available in 2-3 months... Maybe that's why they now post new "record lap results" - trying to find some gullible buyers before the truth comes out...


    Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time

    So, I guess Suzuki and his team better get the GT-R around the 'Ring in 6:00 soon then.

    Perhaps they could do it. May be slip-streaming it behind a GT2 down the straight might help. Wait, it's quite a big car, so may be 2 GT2'S side by side.

    It would be really quite amusing if one of the cars drivetrain were to break during the supertest. I'm not say which one, but it would be quite amusing.


     
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