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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    You can't judge color by pictures. Who knows what the white balance and contrast is set to...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    mc3744:
    I would be extremely surprised if Porsche would be so reckless with an immediate facelift.
    I think they are pretty good at marketing and you don't need to be an expert to understand how pissed off your client based would be with a new car already getting "old".
    It just doesn't make sense.
    I'm a lucky owner of the first customized 991 Turbo S delivered in my city and I feel quite comfortable that it won't get old too soon (maybe I'm just an optimist ;)))
     
    RC I'm finding that, even with winter tires, the skid effect is quite important on cold wet ground. Don't you?

    Not so sure what you mean by skid effect? I am driving the Pirelli Sottozero Winter (it came with the OEM wheel set from Porsche) right now and couldn't be happier with the tire. You can actually feel in the steering when it is too slippery, the car switches to a very smooth understeer and you have enough time to adapt speed before the oversteer occurs. I really like them a lot, on wet (cold) surface and on snow. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    rubaga:
    mc3744:
     
    RC I'm finding that, even with winter tires, the skid effect is quite important on cold wet ground. Don't you?

    Which winter tires do you have? And do you drive it in the snow?

    Thanks

    SmileySmiley I'm afraid I didn't check. Porsche provided those, together with the winter wheels (slightly smaller back wheels).
    I'm leaving for a couple of days, I'll verify when I'm back.

    Not yet on the snow, just wet and salty ground around 2-3°.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Milanno:

    Insanely cool color kiss

    It looks exactly like mine, which is Silver GT.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    mc3744:
    I would be extremely surprised if Porsche would be so reckless with an immediate facelift.
    I think they are pretty good at marketing and you don't need to be an expert to understand how pissed off your client based would be with a new car already getting "old".
    It just doesn't make sense.
    I'm a lucky owner of the first customized 991 Turbo S delivered in my city and I feel quite comfortable that it won't get old too soon (maybe I'm just an optimist ;)))
     
    RC I'm finding that, even with winter tires, the skid effect is quite important on cold wet ground. Don't you?

    Not so sure what you mean by skid effect? I am driving the Pirelli Sottozero Winter (it came with the OEM wheel set from Porsche) right now and couldn't be happier with the tire. You can actually feel in the steering when it is too slippery, the car switches to a very smooth understeer and you have enough time to adapt speed before the oversteer occurs. I really like them a lot, on wet (cold) surface and on snow. 

    By skid I meant the back of the car skidding left and right when accelerating abruptly. For instance to overtake the Cayenne in front of you Smiley
    I kicked down turned left to get on the opposite lane and the car went immediately in oversteering to the left. Nothing dramatic, but I was expecting a bit more grip.
    I'm talking about very squishy ground. Also the car would skid sideways (all tires) some 10-20 centimeters when getting in a roundabout a bit quickly. Again, absolutely controllable, but it still surprised me somehow.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    mc3744:
    By skid I meant the back of the car skidding left and right when accelerating abruptly. For instance to overtake the Cayenne in front of you Smiley

    I kicked down turned left to get on the opposite lane and the car went immediately in oversteering to the left. Nothing dramatic, but I was expecting a bit more grip.
    I'm talking about very squishy ground. Also the car would skid sideways (all tires) some 10-20 centimeters when getting in a roundabout a bit quickly. Again, absolutely controllable, but it still surprised me somehow.

    Now I understand. I suppose you were in Sport mode? Smiley I usually drive in Sport mode only, even in winter time (no snow though, with snow...no Sport mode) but you cannot fully press the throttle (kickdown) when overtaking a car and it is wet, I suggest using 3/4 throttle or less (you are still going to be fast enough). As long as PSM is turned on and "only" Sport mode is active, you are going to be fine though but it is also a good "training" to learn about the car's capabilities and limitations. The transition into oversteer is smooth though, unless you really provoked it.

    Stupid question: What winter tires do you have and how old are they (how many km have you already done on them?)? Winter tires usually need a 300-1000 km "run-in" period until they behave as they should under all driving conditions.

    Here is a photo from last weekend...

    image.png-6.jpeg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Hey RC,

    No I wasn't in sport mode ;) But you are right, the kick down is usually an "overkill" ;)

    The tyres already have some 1.3k km of highway, hence I'd say they've been broken in :)

    cool picture btw, looks like you are having some fun :))))


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    mc3744:

    Hey RC,

    No I wasn't in sport mode ;) But you are right, the kick down is usually an "overkill" ;)

    The tyres already have some 1.3k km of highway, hence I'd say they've been broken in :)

    cool picture btw, looks like you are having some fun :))))

    Thank you, I posted some more photos in the "owner" thread.

    You weren't in Sport mode? This is weird. The car actually reacts pretty harmless when driven in standard mode. Maybe there was a little bit ice or some oil too? I usually only fully (kickdown) accelerate on dry pavement and even then, it can be a challenge when the road is cold and with winter tires. The AWD system apparently is programmed to provide huge traction on the rear axle for a short moment before the force is distributed further to the front axle too. I never watched the AWD display, maybe I should start doing that.

    Have you read my comment regarding the "software update" your dealer claimed to have done? There was an update available for the AWS system (it was possible that the AWS system goes into emergency mode, thus shutting off, at lower speeds) but nothing else. Was this one maybe related to your problem? If not, I rather guess that they did something you were not supposed to know (hardware issue, exchanged part), which would be kind of weird but at least the problem is gone (hopefully).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC - I believe what mc3744 is doing is simply giving it too much throttle in slick conditions.  Even the quickest traction control would slip the tires for a bit and then take away the gas/brake the correct corner etc.  Your suggestion to use less throttle makes the most sense.  Do not expect the car to save your bacon 100% of the time (or even 10%).  The Turbo must still be respected even in the dry.  Just because all the safety nets are on and working does not negate the laws of physics.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Leawood911:

    RC - I believe what mc3744 is doing is simply giving it too much throttle in slick conditions.  Even the quickest traction control would slip the tires for a bit and then take away the gas/brake the correct corner etc.  Your suggestion to use less throttle makes the most sense.  Do not expect the car to save your bacon 100% of the time (or even 10%).  The Turbo must still be respected even in the dry.  Just because all the safety nets are on and working does not negate the laws of physics.

    Smiley True for almost all perfimance cars IMO.


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Leawood911:

    RC - I believe what mc3744 is doing is simply giving it too much throttle in slick conditions.  Even the quickest traction control would slip the tires for a bit and then take away the gas/brake the correct corner etc.  Your suggestion to use less throttle makes the most sense.  Do not expect the car to save your bacon 100% of the time (or even 10%).  The Turbo must still be respected even in the dry.  Just because all the safety nets are on and working does not negate the laws of physics.

    Smiley I usually adapt my throttle foot to the road/driving conditions, which isn't always easy though, I have to admit. Smiley So much power under the foot...very tempting. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbjlvF59HH0

    not sure if thats turbo or turbo s 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    sulaiman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbjlvF59HH0

    not sure if thats turbo or turbo s 

    This is a Turbo, not a Turbo S. I looked at the video in HD (1080p) and on a larger display and I can clearly see red calipers.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    yes i  just check and i think u  r right ... yellow one would have been more clear .. 

     

    anyway what do u think S would be  faster by 1 sec  ? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    sulaiman:

    yes i  just check and i think u  r right ... yellow one would have been more clear .. 

     

    anyway what do u think S would be  faster by 1 sec  ? 

    Rather 0.5 second or so. Smiley The Turbo S is substantially faster in the above 200 kph (125 mph) speed range. I don't remember exactly but I think there is a 5 seconds difference in acceleration from 0-300 kph in favor of the Turbo S.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    not my range of speed 

     

    too old to handle such a speed with the crazy drivers around me 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    sulaiman:

    yes i  just check and i think u  r right ... yellow one would have been more clear .. 

     

    anyway what do u think S would be  faster by 1 sec  ? 

    Rather 0.5 second or so. Smiley The Turbo S is substantially faster in the above 200 kph (125 mph) speed range. I don't remember exactly but I think there is a 5 seconds difference in acceleration from 0-300 kph in favor of the Turbo S.

    Are you absolutely sure about that? Since gearbox ratios are the same on Turbo and Turbo S. I can already tell you that difference is much smaller-you will see forthcoming Sport Auto test of both models that will prove that...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Quartermile performance difference has been in the 0.3-0.5 seconds range so far. 0-300 kph performance difference is related to the fact that the 991 Turbo S has much more boost (incl. overboost) in the upper speed range above 240 kph. I actually think that 0-300 kph in 35-36 seconds would be quite good for the 991 Turbo. Also, the higher rev limit (200 rpm only) makes more of an impact than people would think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4FRv_6eVfI (Turbo S...10.63)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbjlvF59HH0 (Turbo...10.94 but car has different rims and I suspect it was running on different tires than stock, not sure about it though). Champion Motorsport...it can't be excluded that they also did some ECU mods.

    Of course these results are difficult to compare but in the lower speed range, the difference really isn't high (it doesn't matter if the quartermile is done in 10.5 or 11 seconds, this is not much difference). 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    here is the competition:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/19/is-this-the-new-lamborghini-huracan/

     

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    here is the competition:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/19/is-this-the-new-lamborghini-huracan/

     

    Not really, I could never be seen in such a car where I live and I know many people who are in the same situation. Performance-wise, the Huracan will surely be great but it is more of a car for certain regions where showing off isn't a problem but actually a virtue. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    OMG RC, you are such a bore:::::))))) can't you just move to an upscale neighborhood and judge a car by what it is and not by what your petite bourgeoisie neigbours think what it might be? is that why you bought a mouse-grey porsche (seen by the outside) with red interior (seen by yourself)?Smiley 4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I don't think "showing off" is how I would describe it. Showing-off IMO is never a virtue anywhere. People obviously do it but it's obnoxious and vulgar.

    If a bunch of guys meet up with their cars, not to show off, but to appreciate each others' cars (eg as in some weekend coffee meets), then IMO that's fun and is what car enthusiasts often do.

    Some cars are just for more extrovert people who live in places where owning such cars does not trigger repercussions. Others prefer a more low-profile car. Horses for courses!


    --


    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    easy_rider911:

    I don't think "showing off" is how I would describe it. Showing-off IMO is never a virtue anywhere. People obviously do it but it's obnoxious and vulgar.

    If a bunch of guys meet up with their cars, not to show off, but to appreciate each others' cars (eg as in some weekend coffee meets), then IMO that's fun and is what car enthusiasts often do.

    Some cars are just for more extrovert people who live in places where owning such cars does not trigger repercussions. Others prefer a more low-profile car. Horses for courses!

    I don't consider showing off a problem as long as it happens under certain circumstances or in certain regions. Maybe it is a language thing (English isn't my mother language) but I never considered "showing off" to be the same as "bragging" but of course I could be wrong.  Smiley Actually I think we both mean the same but like I said...English isn't my mother language, so... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    OMG RC, you are such a bore:::::))))) can't you just move to an upscale neighborhood and judge a car by what it is and not by what your petite bourgeoisie neigbours think what it might be? is that why you bought a mouse-grey porsche (seen by the outside) with red interior (seen by yourself)?Smiley 4

    Well, well...things are as they are and my neighborhood is, like many neighborhoods in very small towns in Germany, mixed. So you have the upscale neighborhood on one side of the road and the middle class neighborhood on the other side of the road. Also when everybody knows almost everybody, things get complicated further. I really don't want to start the whole (boring) "why" discussion again but to actually take any steam out of the discussion: My wife threatened to divorce me if I would get a Ferrari or Lamborghini, so go figure. Smiley 

    The reason I got myself an agate grey met. Turbo S with bicolor interior is indeed related to public perception but I also wanted to get away from the black/black ideology I carried in me for years. Smiley I can always use foil to change the exterior color, so no real issue here. 

    I don't know about the UK but over here in Germany, public perception is very important and according to other posts I've read so far, in other European countries, including Ferrari's Italy, too. This is how it works here and trying to beat the "rules" only hurts my family. Not worth it. My ego and desire of showmanship are not that big anymore. With age comes wisdom Smiley and pain in the joints. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    i am really bored by this 'i need to get an ugly (but very fast) car because otherwise my neighbours refuse to send their children sing xmas carols with my children - stuff'. i do not know about germany, but in italy it is not like this unless you live in a small village (which is to be avoided anyway like the plague IMHO). in the UK my friends could not care less what i drive. it is much more important which university education i have got, oxford, cambridge or you've got the drift. i have posted the lambo link because i thought it would be interesting to compare, not to trigger an 'i need an ugly squashed beetle because it is better for my family's image' reply. sorry to be so blunt, but here we are in supercar territory and supercar money but unfortunately in very suburban type arguments.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    i am really bored by this 'i need to get an ugly but very fast) car because otherwise my neighbours refuse to send their children sing xmas carols with my children - stuff'. i do not know about germany, but in italy it is not like this unless you live in a small village (which is to be avoided anyway like the plague IMHO). in the UK my friends could not care less what i drive. it is much more important which university education i have got, oxford, cambridge or you've got the drift.

    Maybe you should re-read some of the posts of other German and Italian users. I don't think they would agree with you.

    Education? Are you kidding me? Do you think anybody here respects that I have two university degrees? They just see the expensive cars, the big house and everything else, well... Smiley You should talk to my wife, she is a doctor and she could tell you some nice stories of how some patients talk to her.

    Maybe you should get out of your Oxford "shell" from time to time and have a reality check. Just saying... Smiley

    As to the "ugly" car comment: Have I said something about ugly (I don't think the 991 Turbo S is ugly at all)? I said something about attracting too much attention and a Porsche is actually the perfect sportscar for a society with people who spend 80k on a Audi Diesel stationwagon but removes the badges, so nobody can tell that it is the most expensive version. 

    Do we really need to start this whole "why" discussion again? Oh boy.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    no, let us not restart this nonsense. just to let you know, i do get out of my oxford shell occasionally and talk to cambridge and imperial college colleagues. is that what you mean?::::)))) anyway i agree that compared to an audi stationwagon the turbo S is ok. can we have a chat on the new lambo now or no one interested?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    New Lambo pics look great, and the car should sell well!  A different car than a Porsche, but aren't we all fortunate to be living in such a wonderful time for performance cars...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    no, let us not restart this nonsense. just to let you know, i do get out of my oxford shell occasionally and talk to cambridge and imperial college colleagues. is that what you mean?::::)))) anyway i agree that compared to an audi stationwagon the turbo S is ok. can we have a chat on the new lambo now or no one interested?

    Maybe you should use your Oxford education to find the right thread for such a chat? Smiley Smiley

    On a more serious note: I get what you want to say but trust me, you are very very wrong in my case (and many other cases). It makes a big difference if you live in a large city with anonymous people around you or if you live in a more intimate neighborhood where everybody actually knows almost every detail about his/her neighbor. Then add two kids to the calculation and the fact that people over here are very envious, especially when their kids have less than others and do the math. Smiley

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    New Lambo pics look great, and the car should sell well!  A different car than a Porsche, but aren't we all fortunate to be living in such a wonderful time for performance cars...

    My words exactly...many years ago when I worked as a diplomat. Smiley

    Yes, however...wonderful times for performance cars and it can only get better with new technologies.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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