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    Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    4 days after a major snowstorm, I figured out would take my new 997 out for a drive...boy was I in for a shock,,,car would could barely make it out of my driveway which has the tiniest of hills and on the roads, it was a dangerous affair,,,turned around afer 1/2 mile thinking I almost lost my life 3 times in 10 mins...mother in laws Hyundai, no problem, same for all other family cars...I know snow tires are recommended, but the car should come with a warning NOT TO DRIVE IN WINTER!!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    I have been driving mine without snow tires for a few days now. If you drive it like a normal person my experince has been no problems so far. I am not heavy on the gas and I am not gunning around corners and I have had no problems. I am also doing mostly highway driving and I am bearing in mind simalr stories as posted here. If snow is on the ground then there is 0 chance of me taking it out.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    swisstrader said:
    ... should come with a warning NOT TO DRIVE IN WINTER!!



    Don't you mean: "Do not drive in winter WITHOUT PROPER TIRES"?

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Of course it wouldn't work! The Hyunday is a front wheel drive car I think so less traction problem and needless to day much narrower tyres.
    Get snow tyres and snow chains if the snow is very fresh.
    Try not to brake too much, use the engine brake a lot more.
    And start in second gear.
    Good luck!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Of course it wouldn't work! The Hyunday is a front wheel drive car I think so less traction problem and needless to day much narrower tyres.
    Get snow tyres and snow chains if the snow is very fresh.
    Try not to brake too much, use the engine brake a lot more.
    And start in second gear.
    Good luck!



    I would be the only guy for about 500 miles driving with chains on...this ain't Europe!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    heheeh!
    I know .....Sport crono mode : OFF!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    swisstrader said:
    ... should come with a warning NOT TO DRIVE IN WINTER!!



    Don't you mean: "Do not drive in winter WITHOUT PROPER TIRES"?



    Yes, but just about every car I've ever driven had some decent traction in the snow...my 997 had zip.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    swisstrader said:
    I know snow tires are recommended, but the car should come with a warning NOT TO DRIVE IN WINTER!!



    I'm afraid I DO NOT agree. My 997 Carrera S is GREAT in snow, it feels even more connected to the street than my Cayenne Turbo and guess what, no traction problems either (probably due to the limited slip differential my car has). Of course both my cars, the 997 Carrera S and Cayenne Turbo have winter tires on them.
    Today I drove the whole day in my 997 Carrera S, my wife is actually making fun of me because I'm probably the only person here in Bavaria who owns a SUV and drives in his sports car in snow. But it really is fun, believe it or not.

    997 driving in snow? With the PROPER winter tires...definetely YES.

    BTW: did I mention that I have 19'' winter tires in the same size as the summer tires (235s front and 295s rear). I enjoy it a lot when people stare at me and my 997 at red lights etc. They probably think that I'm driving on summer tires and wonder how I'm able to accelerate, brake or even take curves on snow covered streets.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    RC -

    Next winter my 997 will be my daily driver. I do plan to put proper winter tires on the car. Do you think that with winter tires I should be ok? The reason I am asking is that my BMW 325xi (awd) lease will be up soon, and I really don't want to buy a third car for the 4 or 5 snowstorms we get each year.

    I would love to hear comments of those who have driven an awd car with all-season tires and compare it to a 996 or 997 with winter tires...Thanks!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    The major difference between the VAST majority of cars and performance cars such as the 997S (other than RWD vs FWD) is that OEM tires are usually "all-season" tires on most cars that are not high performance. The 997 OEM tires are "summer-high performance tires" that have rubber that is designed to be sticky and offer maximum traction in non-freezing tmeps. The rubber will become stiff and hard at temps usually lower then 40 degrees F. This in addition to the tread design will make the tires act like ice skates. All-season tires are a compromise. They will offer some traction but not nearly as much as dedicated winter tires with the industry "snowflake on a mountain" symbol. These tires have rubber that won't harden as much and the tread will "bite" into snow and ice.

    I am awaiting my 997S with the CIII wheels/Conti Wintercontact 810's. I'll post a review as soon as I get the car and tool around in out Chicago winter wonderland.

    But, my E39 M5 was useless without winter rubber as was my E36 M3. BUt, with Blizzack LM-22s, I could plow through snow and ice with most SUVs except for the lower ground clearance.

    Bottom line...if you want to drive performance cars in the snow...get winter tires period. Drive at your own (insane) risk with summer performace tires...

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    swisstrader said:
    4 days after a major snowstorm, I figured out would take my new 997 out for a drive...boy was I in for a shock,,,car would could barely make it out of my driveway which has the tiniest of hills and on the roads, it was a dangerous affair,,,turned around afer 1/2 mile thinking I almost lost my life 3 times in 10 mins...mother in laws Hyundai, no problem, same for all other family cars...I know snow tires are recommended, but the car should come with a warning NOT TO DRIVE IN WINTER!!




    DUH! Gosh, we've been saying for weeks that the 997S without snow tires is a disaster waiting to happen. If there is a little snow on the ground you will still lose your back-end! With the proper tires the car is a blast in the snow!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    swisstrader said:
    Yes, but just about every car I've ever driven had some decent traction in the snow...my 997 had zip.



    I know it's hard to believe, but Alin2 has it exactly right.

    When I first tried out my 964C4 in the snow, I thought that having all wheel drive would cure all traction problems. Oops! I had some special "R" compound tires mounted from my summer track days that I also used on the street.

    I had a minor traffic accident with a signal control box at about 5 MPH the first time I went out in a tiny amount of snow. It scared the out of me! I refused to believe it was the tires until I consulted someone who knew what he was talking about.

    After I changed to some WINTER tires, the 964C4 became absolutely agricultural in its snow traction abilities.

    Read and believe.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    alin2 said:
    The major difference between the VAST majority of cars and performance cars such as the 997S (other than RWD vs FWD) is that OEM tires are usually "all-season" tires on most cars that are not high performance. The 997 OEM tires are "summer-high performance tires" that have rubber that is designed to be sticky and offer maximum traction in non-freezing tmeps. The rubber will become stiff and hard at temps usually lower then 40 degrees F. This in addition to the tread design will make the tires act like ice skates. All-season tires are a compromise. They will offer some traction but not nearly as much as dedicated winter tires with the industry "snowflake on a mountain" symbol. These tires have rubber that won't harden as much and the tread will "bite" into snow and ice.

    I am awaiting my 997S with the CIII wheels/Conti Wintercontact 810's. I'll post a review as soon as I get the car and tool around in out Chicago winter wonderland.

    But, my E39 M5 was useless without winter rubber as was my E36 M3. BUt, with Blizzack LM-22s, I could plow through snow and ice with most SUVs except for the lower ground clearance.

    Bottom line...if you want to drive performance cars in the snow...get winter tires period. Drive at your own (insane) risk with summer performace tires...



    Great answer....thanks!...the issue I'm having is that my service dept in NJ is yet to have winter tires available for my car, so while it makes great sense to get winter tires, when Porsche themselves don't have, very tough.

    The same is true of a Cayenne

    I took my Cayenne S out in the snow last winter just after I took delivery with the factory 19" wheels and summer perf tires and it was probably the worst driving vehicle I ever tried to drive in the snow. Two days later I put a set of 18" wheels with Pirelli Scorpion snow tires on and it was an absolute transformation to hands down the best vehicle I had driven in the snow including deep unplowed snow on Vermont back roads.

    No vehicle I will ever have will be without snows in the winter.

    Re: The same is true of a Cayenne

    Swisstrader:

    I understand your frustration, but all I did was ask my parts department to order a set of the 18" Carerra III wheels and the new Porsche approved Continental Wintercontact 810 tires from Germany. Arrived last week in anticipation of my 997S arriving in the next couple of weeks!

    Re: The same is true of a Cayenne

    You can get the 18 inch tires no problem but the 19's are almost imposable to find. So if you want to fit your 997S you have to spend another 4k on snow tires to get the 18's. I just spent 93k on my car I could go buy the 18's for another 4k but truthfully I don't want to. Eventually the 19 inch snow tires will be available and until then I will just take it easy on the cold roads. I don't drive the car in the snow or ice, and so far if you drive it easy on treated cold roads like I-95 I haven't had a problem.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Today I drove the whole day in my 997 Carrera S, my wife is actually making fun of me because I'm probably the only person here in Bavaria who owns a SUV and drives in his sports car in snow. But it really is fun, believe it or not.



    So Christian, you want to tell me again how great your Cayenne is?

    I had the use of a Turbo for a month which had winter tyres on it. Unfortunately I never actually got to try it in the snow. What I would really like to try though is the GT3 with its LSD. I imagine that for an aggressive driver this could be quite fun with good winter tyres.

    Meanwhile, I still think the ultimate for fast snow driving is going to be something like my Audi S4. The reason being that the tyres do not need to be as compromised as they must for a car like the Porsche (either the sports car or the SUV). They can be true snow tyres.

    Stephen


    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Weissy:

    Just be careful about mounting and unmounting low profile tires on one set of rims each season. Most tire manufacturers do not recommend this as there is a small but significant chance of damaging the tire bead. IMHO, the risk of a blowout is not worth it...

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    swisstrader said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Of course it wouldn't work! The Hyunday is a front wheel drive car I think so less traction problem and needless to day much narrower tyres.
    Get snow tyres and snow chains if the snow is very fresh.
    Try not to brake too much, use the engine brake a lot more.
    And start in second gear.
    Good luck!




    I would be the only guy for about 500 miles driving with chains on...this ain't Europe!



    Also, if I am not mistaken Porsche does not allow chains on OEM tires.

    Snow and cars is all about TIRES< TIRES< TIRES!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    It snows over here once every 15 years, and is so happened that one of those times was 2 years ago while I was 100 miles aways from home coming back at night on my 996 with 18" summer tires... not a fun ride back specially having to worry about the menacing "confused" drivers on the road around me . Anyway, I found AWD and PSM to be USELESS trying to control the rear with those tires on the snow in the highway, were I normally cruise at 160-180km/h, I had to struggle at 60-80km/h

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Also, if I am not mistaken Porsche does not allow chains on OEM tires.

    Snow and cars is all about TIRES< TIRES< TIRES!



    Actually the 997 manual does have a section about chains. Here is what it says..........

    "Snow chains
    Caution!
    Risk of damage to body, axle or brake components.
    Fit snow chains only to the rear wheels, and
    only with the tire/rim combination listed in the
    Technical Data.
    To ensure adequate clearance between chain
    and body, Porsche recommends only the use
    of fine-link chains such as those approved by
    Porsche.
    Follow instructions issued by the supplier of
    the chains.
    Different states and countries have varying statutory
    requirements regarding maximum speed.
    Check with local authorities for possible restrictions.
    Remove chains as soon as the roads are free
    of ice and snow."

    Phil

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    Jason,

    I have been driving around NJ the past few days in my 997S with no problems at all, but of course with snow tires - Pirelli Sottozero's being the only ones I could get. They are full size and perform exceptionally well in cold dry conditions also.

    Your problem will be getting snow tires. Period. Maybe your dealer can get Porsche approved snow tires now, but when I was looking they were not available and the Sottozero's in 19" 235/295 were completely sold out at Tire Rack even before their first delivery. So heaven knows what will happen if one of my tires is damaged.

    I am using my Porsche year round as I did my M5. I'm sure the Porsche is as lethal in the snow with summer tires as the M5 was. But with snow tires both are just fine.

    Only difference: with the M5 the recommendation was for narrower and smaller wheels/tires, with Porsche full sized - which is very nice for the non-snow days!

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    Thanks pnoble...I don't have to turn my 325xi in until the end of February, so I'm hoping that I can hold off purchasing winter wheels/tires for my 997 until next fall. My wife drives an X5, so maybe she can chaffeur me around if we get a late-season snowstorm!

    My prior 911 was a 1995 C4. I unfortunately got caught in a surprise snowstorm last year, and had to drive home with the summer tires still shod on the car. Even with awd, it was a white-knucle experience the whole way home. It's heartening to hear that the 997 is a capable performer assuming that proper tires are installed.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    Love driving my Boxster S (260hp) in the snow, NO PSM, No traction control, just my right foot
    Last year near Zurich we had a lot of snow (even more than now). While a lot of BMWs couldn't get up a steep icy hill my Boxster and in front of me a 996 C2 had no real problems.
    Probably the engine weight on the rear wheels helps

    Important is good tires, this year I'm using the Pirelli Snowsport (255 wide on the rear wheels).
    Zürich

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    so why did they bother testing, RC can you tell what tyres are on these?

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

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    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

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    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    Quote:
    JasonF said:
    Thanks pnoble...I don't have to turn my 325xi in until the end of February, so I'm hoping that I can hold off purchasing winter wheels/tires for my 997 until next fall. My wife drives an X5, so maybe she can chaffeur me around if we get a late-season snowstorm!

    My prior 911 was a 1995 C4. I unfortunately got caught in a surprise snowstorm last year, and had to drive home with the summer tires still shod on the car. Even with awd, it was a white-knucle experience the whole way home. It's heartening to hear that the 997 is a capable performer assuming that proper tires are installed.



    Jason,

    I got caught in the same surprise snow storm (in December 2003) with my M5 - also still with summer wheels/tires. I had to abandon it on the way home. It was completely uncontrollable. With snow tires, perfect.

    This is why I was so insistent on this message board re snow tires when I got my 997S and suitable tires seemed not to be available in the US.

    I don't have a second car. I actually leased an Audi A4 for one of my kids s month before she got her license to have it available in case it snowed in December again, since my Tire Rack ordered snow tires weren't slated to arrive before January 1.

    I didn't fancy wrapping my new Porsche round a tree.

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    From a post on Rennlist, apparently the Tire Rack has received some 19" Porsche approved Conti Wintercontact 810's in to be sold to people that have a VIN confirmed 997. Check with your dealer if interested...

    Check out Weissy's post in the 997 forum on Rennlist

    Re: Don't try to drive a 997 without snows in this weather!!

    Yikes! That's why pickup trucks and beaters were invented! Thank goodness I live in Florida, but if I had to navigate that mess, I'd leave the Porsche at home cozy and clean in the garage until Spring. Call me obsessive-compulsive, but I can only subject a piece of hardware that I don't really care about to that much grime and grief.

     
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