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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    "Hope is always good"--RC.

     

    Had a bumper sticker once that read:  "Since I gave up hope, I feel much better"


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    RC:

    I think I mentioned this again and again and I do it again:

    The 991 will not be a revolution, design-wise, compared to the 997 but a very nice evolution. Yes, the headlights will be typical 911 (no 918 design, sorry guys) and the tail lights are already pretty well visible in the spy shots posted.

    What is really new about the 991 is the interior, the slightly bigger rear room and the completely new chassis which, according to test drivers, improves handling substantially and lifts the 991 to an incredible performance level (surprise, surprise I guess...until we know more details). Only one hint: According to a source, the 991 Carrera S achieves a similar track time on the Nordschleife like the 997 GT3. If this doesn't sound impressive, I don't know what else to think.

    The engine position has been slightly changed but the 991 isn't even close to a mid-engined car. To make it short: No, the 991 is not mid-engined, sorry.

    No Diesel for the 991 and no V8 engine either. No 4-cyl. either, so relax boys.

    There will be a new PDK generation which will push 0-100 kph performance of the Carrera S below 4 seconds (Sport Chrono). PTM, PASM, etc. have been improved too substantially, torque vectoring should be standard on all AWD models.

    Engine power should start at 360-380 HP, with the Carrera S at 400-420 HP. Can't go into details because the precise figures could put our source at risk.

    The reason why I waited for the 991 is simple: According to our sources and various rumors, the 991 is going to be one of, if not the best and fastest 911 (for each model type) ever.

    It is worth waiting for it and while many people will not like the classic 911 design, the modern interpretation on the 991 is a real treat in my opinion.

    While the new 991 may be slightly bigger than the 997, you won't really notice it. Weight will also not be higher than on the 997, it may even be a couple of kg lighter, depending on the model and equipped options.

     

     

     

    i like your source for info RC over what I'm reading on the latest posting from World Car Fans (specifically the HP numbers and speed)--

    under 4 seconds vs. 4.5 for the Carrera S and 400-420 HP opposed to 395--


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    991 Carrera S hit same track time as 997 GT3 would be amazing.....  I suppose either the weight to come down the same as 997GT3, or something made it really balanced, like PDK transmission moved to the front?  this would put more room at the back as the above source stated also feeds more balance to the front (if the engine still placed at the same place), but we all know tech. that is not going to happen since Carrera carries 2wheel drive and 4 wheel drive...  so don't know how that would fit into the drive shaft


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    From what I understood, the cabin space "moved"slightly forward


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    As per Powertrain boss (EVO interview)  new PDK generation is a big step....whatever than means but I am sure it won't disappoint !


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    It is the mule of 991 Turbo.

    Production of current 997.2 Turbo S stops at 04/2012. So, think carefully... 991 Turbo will be shown much earlier then we anticipated.

    Active aerodynamics will be the key part of new 991 Turbo exterior design.

     

    what i don't understand is why anyone would buy a 997.2 turbo next year, or in 2012, when the 991 will be out, and from what seems to be reported will best it in performance and be tens of thousands of dollars less expensive.

    (and in my opinion, be a better looking design -- personally i never liked the froggy-fog lights and the slat inside the side air vents)


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    mateoche:
    ... tens of thousands of dollars less expensive.

     Where did you get that?Smiley


    --

    "We all love the music. What we hope is that the music loves us." -- Tom Waits


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carrageous:
    mateoche:
    ... tens of thousands of dollars less expensive.

     Where did you get that?Smiley

     

    I think he meant 991 C2S price versus 997 Turbo price...


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    A visible spoiler for the Turbo has always been the tradition for each and every single generation of Turbos, it's THE styling cue and selling point for the car, a 'trademark' of the Turbo.

    A 991 Turbo without a visible spoiler? It's like a front engine-ed 911. Makes absolutely no sense at all.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KMM:
    Carrageous:
    mateoche:
    ... tens of thousands of dollars less expensive.

     Where did you get that?Smiley

     

    I think he meant 991 C2S price versus 997 Turbo price...

     Thanks. Sometimes I need things explained simply.Smiley


    --

    "We all love the music. What we hope is that the music loves us." -- Tom Waits


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Is there any technical reason to the fixed spoiler other then the additional downforce and the cachet?

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    There is no technical reason , what so ever ,  for the fixed spoiler .   ( Last one was on 993 turbo when inter-cooler was in the spoiler)


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KMM:
    Carrageous:
    mateoche:
    ... tens of thousands of dollars less expensive.

     Where did you get that?Smiley

     

    I think he meant 991 C2S price versus 997 Turbo price...

     

    exactly.  thank you, KMM.  sorry, thought i was being clear.

    $135,500 vs. 90,500 (for 2011 997 C2 vs 997 Turbo)

    --even with a 5 percent increase of 991 over 997.2 CS, the 997.2 turbo would still be more than 40 grand more!!!)  according to these prices--

    http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     I'm with you. And a C2S that's as fast as the current GT3 is plenty fast for the money ... and for the road. 


    --

    "We all love the music. What we hope is that the music loves us." -- Tom Waits


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    fritz:
    nberry:

    I thought that would get you out of your hole.Smiley

    Damn! Smiley

    So...am I understanding this correctly, that the majority of Nick's posts are baiting and showmanship? I think I'm liking Nick more all the time!

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    2012 Porsche 911 spy video...

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Thank you Misha, that's what I thought. I'd sacrifice an iconic detail if it becomes form over function.

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Smiley  Smiley

    It is good that 991 turbo will not have fixed spoiler ( and those silly fog lights ) a la 997  

    (this are my predictions - only)


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    LOL, my predictions Misha; on the foglights you're right, on the spoiler not ;-)


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Porsche is starting to become unexciting. The new 911 looks just too evolutionary. Yes it will perform well, blah blah but the car looks as if its missing some magic. It has zero visual mojo. Its High speed Zanax.

    With so many models now and even more on the way the whole special Porscheness of Porsches might become a thing of the past. What segment will they go after next? Luxury pick up trucks for Brazil?  A Hybrid 3 series clone for Berlin and San Francisco buyers? Will ther new company motto be "Compromise is Expected"

    Companies can "jump the shark",, "kill their own monkey".... or "Shoot their own bishop" We maybe seeing the start of that at Porsche, Not financially but in the unique spirit of their products. You cant build that many models without losing some soul.

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Jim Flat6,  I agree and disagree with you on the new 991.  I am getting bored with seeing more and more new "spy shots" of dirty black cars in the snow.  The silhouette is much the same, with most of the "exciting" new details being fairly modest looking changes.  And I also agree that a company can lose soul with the production of more and more niche products. 

    But I disagree that Porsche is going down that road to souless ruin (and you did say maybe,so perhaps I exagerrate).  I was a doubter when VW took over, and jumped at least somewhat to the conclusion that commonplace loomed.  But since the takeover, Porsche has seemed to grow even more dedicated to high performance and technology innovation.  The GT2 RS, the 918RSR, etc.  And perhaps the new move to hybrids and diesels is really a wise adaption to the the different and very real market preferences and regulatory demands.  And certainly quality has not suffered.  The Panamera is one fabulous step forward in quality and luxury for Porsche, and the performance is stunning in the higher level categories.  When I go to a dealership in different cities (I am traveling in Los Angeles now), I often just sit in a Panamera interior and marvel and what progress has been made in this luxury performance product.  And again and again, dealers tell me that the Panamera and the new Cayenne are far and away their best sellers. 

    Where Porsche could lose its soul is in racing success.  The competition is so fierce (witness Sebring this past weekend) that Porsche must maintain its dedication to winning.  Porsche's "soul" is in racing and winning, then applying its knowledge (and mystique) to its range of products.  Without this soul, a Panamera becomes yet another "bling, bling" luxury car... 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    As we all know, the 911 was born in the 1960s so anyone over 40 has been seeing this car in various iterations for a very long time.  Compared to my father's 73 911T  my 997.2 seems huge and soft despite its overwhelming performance advantages.  My nostalgic concept of Porsche lives in the late 1960s and early 1970s which is really my problem, not Porsche's. I accept what Porsche produces for its customers in the world of 2011 based as closely as possible on the founding principles of the Porsche family. 


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Hi,

    3 Feb 2011 ... Derived from motorsport, PDK, available for the 911 Turbo for the first

    time, .....That's if they have managed to overcome the loss of the GT1-based

    “Mezger” engine block. AUSmotive.com Will the 991 Porsche 911 GT3 be

    mid-engine.... Logic says tactics willinclude: Dont say its not rear engined.

    .....................

    cars for sale


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    Where Porsche could lose its soul is in racing success.  The competition is so fierce (witness Sebring this past weekend) that Porsche must maintain its dedication to winning.  Porsche's "soul" is in racing and winning, then applying its knowledge (and mystique) to its range of products.  Without this soul, a Panamera becomes yet another "bling, bling" luxury car... 

    Could not agree more. Unfortunately Porsche is also committed ,in this area, to make it a business. They seem to have forgotten that racing teams wanted to buy their cars because they were winners. (It gave any purchaser a good chance of gaining a podium place in any race they competed in). Without a dedicated factory effort nowadays it is almost impossible  to win any major race.

    As for their GT business, well, those of us that have followed sportscar racing have been predicting (and warning) that the 911 (as it is in its current state) was getting slightly too long in the tooth and the competition was just getting far too strong.

    Because Porsche at one time, dominated that class (and because there were just so many Porsche 911's racing in one class), they have become banal to many racing fans and certainly not a favorite to the organizer (as they don't see them any longer as crowd pullers). As a result, organizers have shown themselves to be willing to give "waivers" to many of the opposition brands , in order to make the brand participation (and success) more even.  (see BMW M3, see upcoming Nurburg 24, see upcoming McLaren GT3).

    Some will argue that Porsche have become a victim of their own success, but to me they have shown themselves to be less able to manage their success.

    I have nothing against making money out of racing, but if you go down that route, then you must also be prepared to spend money in order to guarantee future business (and to make sure your product remains fresh and competitive).

    This is going to be a long, long season for us Porsche fan-boys.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I expect that until the 991 version of GT racers appears, the soon to be pensioned off 997 based cars will not be consistent winners. However, don't write the old car off completely.

    In Sebring with a bit more luck (collision, penalty,loose water hose on the top car) the result could be more favourable. The competition is now much stronger and every little detail counts.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ........and lets hope and pray that the "evolution" of the 991 is enough.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    reginos:

    I expect that until the 991 version of GT racers appears, the soon to be pensioned off 997 based cars will not be consistent winners. However, don't write the old car off completely.

    In Sebring with a bit more luck (collision, penalty,loose water hose on the top car) the result could be more favourable. The competition is now much stronger and every little detail counts.

    You are correct in saying that luck could have made some difference, but the 997 was hopelessly off the pace.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Porsche's racing romance for fans used to be that this little company that only made sports cars could defeat sports cars from much bigger car companies.

    Now Porsche is another model range of a big car company. So some of the romance for spectators is gone, Porsche the "Giant Killer" is now a Giant themselves.

    Everybody loves a victorious underdog story... and part of that is what McLaren is hoping to catch, Mclaren has no 4dr sedan, no 4dr SUV and they dont have a big company like Fiat, GM or VW backing them.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     a bit off-topic, i realize, but while we're talking about a Porsche halo-effect car, check this out on the 918--  (i cross-listed on the 918 forum too)

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/256067/


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    The more I see this curve the deeper I fall in love.  Can't wait for September.

    1300853325385image.jpg


    --
    Happy Driving

     
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