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    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    The turbo S will be out by then, then PDK then PTM 2.0 then...
    You got my point.



    Sadly you missed mine. The bulk of the 997TT's will be the base model and it will not be competitive in a year or so. True Porsche may come out with the S but it will only meet the competition AND very few will be built. The cost of that car probably will approach $200,000. Thus you have people buying a 997TT Cab for over $150,000 and a laggard in performance against the competition.

    But fear not, Porsche will sell many 997 TT Cab's.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Axle Diff Lock - $950




    Do you think the Turbo Cab will have the mechanical limited-slip rear differential option? The Carrera S Cab didn't.



    The turbo cab will have same drivetrain/ mechanics as the turbo coupe, not S cab. Will probably include diff lock option imo.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    So WHEN will they pop that sucker onto the CONFIGURATOR?

    And how about a slick new steering wheel for this one, huh PAG?

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    US car configurator is yet another example of Porsche milking. Again, where are all these profits going?

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    The turbo S will be out by then, then PDK then PTM 2.0 then...
    You got my point.



    Sadly you missed mine. The bulk of the 997TT's will be the base model and it will not be competitive in a year or so. True Porsche may come out with the S but it will only meet the competition AND very few will be built. The cost of that car probably will approach $200,000. Thus you have people buying a 997TT Cab for over $150,000 and a laggard in performance against the competition.

    But fear not, Porsche will sell many 997 TT Cab's.



    New F430 and Gallardo are not expected for next year, but the one after. New corvette maybe, but not in the same category IMHO.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Next version of F430/Gallardo > 997TT > F430/Gallardo > 996TT > 360 F1

    See the trend? There was no need for any one car manufacturer to make one sports car that rules them all, it's bad for business if people stop changing cars.

    So who cares if the NEXT version is better? When we talk about cars it's the current version that matters and newer cars will always be better than the last generations. Currently 997TT is clearly above the F430/Gallardo crowd.

    Let me see if I can get into nberry's shoes and see his logic:

    In the next couple years when the current 997TT to be relegated to the also-ran like the current F430/Gallardo because of the newer version of F430/Gallardo, THAT new version will also be a also-ran when the next 911 Turbo comes out.

    So, if I get his logic right, the NEXT version of F430/Gallardo is ALREADY an also-ran BEFORE it comes out because the NEXT version of 911 Turbo will be better......

    Hmm, so what's the point of buying the next F430/Gallardo? They are clearly the also-ran already.

    BUT WAIT!!!! There is more, it's not about the performance anymore when someone buys a Ferrari, it's about the re-sale value, performance is never a priority, it's always about re-sale value, period. So the F430 clearly is a better car than 997TT or Gallardo, 0-60, 1/4miles, lap times means absolutely nothing because Ferrari has a better re-sale value so it's better, period.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Even at $136K, I will walk out of there after writting a $170k check. PCCB, Adp SPRT seat, painted lip this and painted lip that, etc will take you there. I will still buy it though after trading the 997S cab. I probably get $68K for my cab meaning I have to come up with another $100K.EXPENSIVE MAN.



    $165k -$170k (before taxes) is what I'm figuring. Just the must have's get you up there. Geez the S is going to approach $200k. The options below add up to $161k (before tax) and those are just off the top of my head, I know there's a few more I'm going to want. (insert picture of poster Stradale bending over while Porsche's CFO Holger Harter pulls down his pants from behind laughing like a mad scientist saying in the thickest German Accent: "You'll buy the mats and like it" ,,,, lol!)

    Artic Silver or Basalt w/ Black leather int/ Black top.

    PCCB - $8840
    Black Mats = $115
    Heated Seats - $480
    Adaptive Seats - $1k
    Crest on headrest - $270
    Axle Diff Lock - $950
    Sport Chrono - $1840
    Gear Lever Trim Leather =$251
    Storage Compt. lid w/ Model Logo = $293
    Interior pkg A Pillar Leather = $740
    Leather Sun Visors = $560
    Steering Column Leather =$420
    Carbon Package - Switch Panel & Gear lever/handbrake - $890
    Belt Outlet B Pillar Carbon -$490
    Package Switch Panel (CF Vents/leather slats/loudspeaker finisher) - $2700
    Carbon Door Sil- $780
    Carbon Rear Center Consule- $1625
    Carbon Door finisher - $2700
    XPA Thicker Steering Wheel Leather = $310



    Good one stradale. I feel the pain already. Did you spec these carbon options on your 997S cab ? They sure add up but would look awesome on a cab. That's why you are specing these, ha? top down with a lot of light, you can see everything. I think I get you.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Even at $136K, I will walk out of there after writting a $170k check. PCCB, Adp SPRT seat, painted lip this and painted lip that, etc will take you there. I will still buy it though after trading the 997S cab. I probably get $68K for my cab meaning I have to come up with another $100K.EXPENSIVE MAN.



    $165k -$170k (before taxes) is what I'm figuring. Just the must have's get you up there. Geez the S is going to approach $200k. The options below add up to $161k (before tax) and those are just off the top of my head, I know there's a few more I'm going to want. (insert picture of poster Stradale bending over while Porsche's CFO Holger Harter pulls down his pants from behind laughing like a mad scientist saying in the thickest German Accent: "You'll buy the mats and like it" ,,,, lol!)

    Artic Silver or Basalt w/ Black leather int/ Black top.

    PCCB - $8840
    Black Mats = $115
    Heated Seats - $480
    Adaptive Seats - $1k
    Crest on headrest - $270
    Axle Diff Lock - $950
    Sport Chrono - $1840
    Gear Lever Trim Leather =$251
    Storage Compt. lid w/ Model Logo = $293
    Interior pkg A Pillar Leather = $740
    Leather Sun Visors = $560
    Steering Column Leather =$420
    Carbon Package - Switch Panel & Gear lever/handbrake - $890
    Belt Outlet B Pillar Carbon -$490
    Package Switch Panel (CF Vents/leather slats/loudspeaker finisher) - $2700
    Carbon Door Sil- $780
    Carbon Rear Center Consule- $1625
    Carbon Door finisher - $2700
    XPA Thicker Steering Wheel Leather = $310



    Good one stradale. I feel the pain already. Did you spec these carbon options on your 997S cab ? They sure add up but would look awesome on a cab. That's why you are specing these, ha? top down with a lot of light, you can see everything. I think I get you.




    Yeah I know, about $10k in carbon fiber. Nope.. When I bought my S Cab I knew at that time it would be temporary till the turbo cab came out so I didn't order any carbon fiber on my S cab. Yup, IMO the full C.F. interior will look especially good in a turbo cabriolet w/ black interior. Hopefully I still have the balls to order it when it comes time to add everything up. It's going to be a very expensive everyday'er. I guess if it came down to ordering only my must have's the car would have (in order of importance)


    Sport Chrono
    PCCB's
    Axle Diff Lock
    Adaptive Seats
    Heated Seats
    Thicker steering wheel
    Crests on headrests
    Leather sunvisors

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Next version of F430/Gallardo > 997TT > F430/Gallardo > 996TT > 360 F1

    See the trend? There was no need for any one car manufacturer to make one sports car that rules them all, it's bad for business if people stop changing cars.

    So who cares if the NEXT version is better? When we talk about cars it's the current version that matters and newer cars will always be better than the last generations. Currently 997TT is clearly above the F430/Gallardo crowd.

    Let me see if I can get into nberry's shoes and see his logic:

    In the next couple years when the current 997TT to be relegated to the also-ran like the current F430/Gallardo because of the newer version of F430/Gallardo, THAT new version will also be a also-ran when the next 911 Turbo comes out.

    So, if I get his logic right, the NEXT version of F430/Gallardo is ALREADY an also-ran BEFORE it comes out because the NEXT version of 911 Turbo will be better......

    Hmm, so what's the point of buying the next F430/Gallardo? They are clearly the also-ran already.

    BUT WAIT!!!! There is more, it's not about the performance anymore when someone buys a Ferrari, it's about the re-sale value, performance is never a priority, it's always about re-sale value, period. So the F430 clearly is a better car than 997TT or Gallardo, 0-60, 1/4miles, lap times means absolutely nothing because Ferrari has a better re-sale value so it's better, period.



    Right on, well said, totally true.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    Bluehinder said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Next version of F430/Gallardo > 997TT > F430/Gallardo > 996TT > 360 F1

    See the trend? There was no need for any one car manufacturer to make one sports car that rules them all, it's bad for business if people stop changing cars.

    So who cares if the NEXT version is better? When we talk about cars it's the current version that matters and newer cars will always be better than the last generations. Currently 997TT is clearly above the F430/Gallardo crowd.

    Let me see if I can get into nberry's shoes and see his logic:

    In the next couple years when the current 997TT to be relegated to the also-ran like the current F430/Gallardo because of the newer version of F430/Gallardo, THAT new version will also be a also-ran when the next 911 Turbo comes out.

    So, if I get his logic right, the NEXT version of F430/Gallardo is ALREADY an also-ran BEFORE it comes out because the NEXT version of 911 Turbo will be better......

    Hmm, so what's the point of buying the next F430/Gallardo? They are clearly the also-ran already.

    BUT WAIT!!!! There is more, it's not about the performance anymore when someone buys a Ferrari, it's about the re-sale value, performance is never a priority, it's always about re-sale value, period. So the F430 clearly is a better car than 997TT or Gallardo, 0-60, 1/4miles, lap times means absolutely nothing because Ferrari has a better re-sale value so it's better, period.



    Right on, well said, totally true.




    I think what Nick is referring to is the catch-up game Porsche is playing in regards to performance compared to Lambo/Ferrari. It use to be the other way around. In other words 2005/2006 the 996 turbo lagged the 430's/G car's performance and is only now w/ the 997 turbo achieving EQUAL levels of performance of the 430 & Gallardo. Shortly the new F-car will be a stronger performer then the turbo again until the next turbo comes out to probably EQUAL the level of performance again . In other words the F-car enjoys a couple of years of higher levels of performance while the old version of the turbo is still around and then the new turbo comes out and only EQUALS (approx) the F-cars performance never being in the position of dominating the F-car. While the 996 turbo was still the top 911, Ferrari beats it w/ the F430. Porsche catches up w/ the 997 turbo equaling the performance of the 430 but shortly therafter Ferrari will put a more powerful car out there beating the turbo again. Doesn't look like Porsche plans to be the performance leadership role any longer, happy instead w/ small incremental increases in power. Because of this Ferrari has leap frogged Porsche w/ more powerful performers leaving Porsche playing catch-up.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    Bluehinder said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Next version of F430/Gallardo > 997TT > F430/Gallardo > 996TT > 360 F1

    See the trend? There was no need for any one car manufacturer to make one sports car that rules them all, it's bad for business if people stop changing cars.

    So who cares if the NEXT version is better? When we talk about cars it's the current version that matters and newer cars will always be better than the last generations. Currently 997TT is clearly above the F430/Gallardo crowd.

    Let me see if I can get into nberry's shoes and see his logic:

    In the next couple years when the current 997TT to be relegated to the also-ran like the current F430/Gallardo because of the newer version of F430/Gallardo, THAT new version will also be a also-ran when the next 911 Turbo comes out.

    So, if I get his logic right, the NEXT version of F430/Gallardo is ALREADY an also-ran BEFORE it comes out because the NEXT version of 911 Turbo will be better......

    Hmm, so what's the point of buying the next F430/Gallardo? They are clearly the also-ran already.

    BUT WAIT!!!! There is more, it's not about the performance anymore when someone buys a Ferrari, it's about the re-sale value, performance is never a priority, it's always about re-sale value, period. So the F430 clearly is a better car than 997TT or Gallardo, 0-60, 1/4miles, lap times means absolutely nothing because Ferrari has a better re-sale value so it's better, period.



    Right on, well said, totally true.




    I think what Nick is referring to is the catch-up game Porsche is playing in regards to performance compared to Lambo/Ferrari. It use to be the other way around. In other words 2005/2006 the 996 turbo lagged the 430's/G car's performance and is only now w/ the 997 turbo achieving EQUAL levels of performance of the 430 & Gallardo. Shortly the new F-car will be a stronger performer then the turbo again until the next turbo comes out to probably EQUAL the level of performance again . In other words the F-car enjoys a couple of years of higher levels of performance while the old version of the turbo is still around and then the new turbo comes out and only EQUALS (approx) the F-cars performance never being in the position of dominating the F-car. While the 996 turbo was still the top 911, Ferrari beats it w/ the F430. Porsche catches up w/ the 997 turbo equaling the performance of the 430 but shortly therafter Ferrari will put a more powerful car out there beating the turbo again. Doesn't look like Porsche plans to be the performance leadership role any longer, happy instead w/ small incremental increases in power. Because of this Ferrari has leap frogged Porsche w/ more powerful performers leaving Porsche playing catch-up.



    Very well analyzed and written. When I buy a new Ferrari it is cutting edge in performance and technology. If I were to buy a Porsche it would be second tier perf. trying to catch up. To think people are willing to spend over $150,000 for that privilege.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Funny things happens when talking about perspectives on cars.

    My impression is that Porsche actually is toying with Ferrari/Lambo on performance, it's like me doing a bike race with Lance Armstrong, he is can be much faster than I but he won't race full speed, he would let me catch up and pass and bit a little bit of a lead, letting me think I got the upper hand, then he would pedal a little bit harder and pass me again, not much but just enough to take the lead and let me play catch up again.

    997 Turbo is just that little bit ahead of F430/G, not blowing it away but enough to make people think about upgrading to the next version of F430/G. When that one comes out, Porsche, like Lance in the bike race, pedal ahead a little bit with the next Turbo S and plays the game all over.

    So depends on which perspective one is taking side, Ferrari/Lambo or Porsche is the one playing catch-up.

    From the marketing point of view, clearly Porsche is the Lance Armstrong of the sports car race, they, unlike Ferrari/Lambo, don't need to go full speed on the next model, just enough is already good enough, there is no need to go 100% as the competition is working 100% just to keep up. The sales figure told the tale, Porsche didn't need to go all out to have a successful car, just enough is already good enough.

    THAT, actually validates one of nberry's point of view, he hates Porsche for not going all out with their cars, 911 are always the just enough cars. I hate to agree with nberry but on this front he is right, the 997 Turbo is engineered as a just enough car, but a car that has Ferrai/Lambo sweating for the next version to counter, but they already know full well that if the next F430/G is not truely specticular, Porsche will again do the toying part with the next Turbo S.

    These are what fuel the buying of sports cars, kinda makes me wonder if Porsche and Ferrari don't have a secret cartel on suckering people to buy more cars.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Porsche is Lance Armstrong and Ferrari is Whoopsy?

    Well you argument is at least entertaining.

    Let me you ask you this. If an individual is looking to buy the best performing Porsche what does he buy and when? Get my drift? It seems they trickle better performance in increments with walloping additional cost. I refuse to buy into that approach.

    Look at the poor buyer of the base 911. He paid for a high performance car that is the slowest in the fleet. Then the S buyer pays 10-15% more and lo and behold he has the second slowest in the fleet. I could on but I am sure you see where this headed. People talk about Ferrari having a Ponzi scheme. Porsche makes Ferrari look like an amateur in riping customers off.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Now we are getting somewhere with the entertainments

    Personally, when I buy a car, I look ahead at most 2 months to see if something better is coming out, if it's more than 2 months away I don't care if it can land on the moon, it will not register on my radar.

    Last year when I bought the 997 Turbo, I looked around and there really is nothing better at that moment in time, F430/G comes close but to me both of them are already 2 years old tech, if I want one I would have bought one 2 years ago. 997 Turbo was king of the hill back then and still is right now. I still think I made the right decision. Maybe 2 years down the road when I decides on my next car, it could very well be the next F430/G IF in fact they are the reigning king of the road.

    I am probably one of the least brand loyal customer out there, if someone else really make a better car I will probably be the first one to jump ship, brand loyalty be damn.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    Bluehinder said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Next version of F430/Gallardo > 997TT > F430/Gallardo > 996TT > 360 F1

    See the trend? There was no need for any one car manufacturer to make one sports car that rules them all, it's bad for business if people stop changing cars.

    So who cares if the NEXT version is better? When we talk about cars it's the current version that matters and newer cars will always be better than the last generations. Currently 997TT is clearly above the F430/Gallardo crowd.

    Let me see if I can get into nberry's shoes and see his logic:

    In the next couple years when the current 997TT to be relegated to the also-ran like the current F430/Gallardo because of the newer version of F430/Gallardo, THAT new version will also be a also-ran when the next 911 Turbo comes out.

    So, if I get his logic right, the NEXT version of F430/Gallardo is ALREADY an also-ran BEFORE it comes out because the NEXT version of 911 Turbo will be better......

    Hmm, so what's the point of buying the next F430/Gallardo? They are clearly the also-ran already.

    BUT WAIT!!!! There is more, it's not about the performance anymore when someone buys a Ferrari, it's about the re-sale value, performance is never a priority, it's always about re-sale value, period. So the F430 clearly is a better car than 997TT or Gallardo, 0-60, 1/4miles, lap times means absolutely nothing because Ferrari has a better re-sale value so it's better, period.



    Right on, well said, totally true.




    I think what Nick is referring to is the catch-up game Porsche is playing in regards to performance compared to Lambo/Ferrari. It use to be the other way around. In other words 2005/2006 the 996 turbo lagged the 430's/G car's performance and is only now w/ the 997 turbo achieving EQUAL levels of performance of the 430 & Gallardo. Shortly the new F-car will be a stronger performer then the turbo again until the next turbo comes out to probably EQUAL the level of performance again . In other words the F-car enjoys a couple of years of higher levels of performance while the old version of the turbo is still around and then the new turbo comes out and only EQUALS (approx) the F-cars performance never being in the position of dominating the F-car. While the 996 turbo was still the top 911, Ferrari beats it w/ the F430. Porsche catches up w/ the 997 turbo equaling the performance of the 430 but shortly therafter Ferrari will put a more powerful car out there beating the turbo again. Doesn't look like Porsche plans to be the performance leadership role any longer, happy instead w/ small incremental increases in power. Because of this Ferrari has leap frogged Porsche w/ more powerful performers leaving Porsche playing catch-up.



    Very well analyzed and written. When I buy a new Ferrari it is cutting edge in performance and technology. If I were to buy a Porsche it would be second tier perf. trying to catch up. To think people are willing to spend over $150,000 for that privilege.



    What a load of B.S.!!

    I couldn't disagree more... certain cars may be quicker than certain cars but deep down, does that .5 of a second between 0 and 60 mph really make you enjoy a car any more or any less?

    Unless the main use for your 'luxury-performance' vehicle (and lets face it...no ultima GTR has ever had sat-nav) is drag racing, then these tiny and almost imperceptible differences in performance mean next to nothing!

    What really seperates cars when it comes to enjoyment are things, innate to that model that cant really be 'upgraded' or bettered year after year.

    [Not exclusively so] The gallardo has its lusty and striking visual styling. The F430 has its wailing, revvy V8 and the porsche has its inimitable rear engined layout w/ flat six which has its advantages and disadvantages...eitherway its characterful.

    And so what im saying is that year on year performance increases add little to the value of a car. The Superleggera is more about carbon fibre wedges than actual speed differences...

    Porsche doesnt have to "catch up" with ferrari and lambourgini... it doesn't have to boost hp past 600.. It just has to keep on making (and evolving) the wonderfully subtle, driver focused 911's that it always had.

    End of story!

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    One point on which I think Nick is definitely wrong is with regard to the resale value of the TT Cab. Other than the 996 GT2, I would say that the 996 TT Cab and the 996 TTS Cab have retained their value extremely well, especially for a daily driver car. In fact, I have recently seen two low mile '05 996 TTS Cabs on sale for $140K, which is close to the original sticker. Most TT Cabs are selling for around $100K - $110K. I would be willing to wager that the percentage depreciation for a 996TT Cab is similar to the depreciation on a 360 Spyder with similar miles. Further, in several years these cars could actually start to appreciate, rather than the other way. We have seen this with the 993 TTS and 993 TT Cabs (admitedly, the 996 was not as loved as the 993). The reason Fs hold their value is because of the laws of supply and demand. The same holds true with regard to the limited production of the TT Cab and especially the TTS Cab. My guess is that the 997 TT Cab and 997 TTS Cab will each one day be worth more than the original purchase price.

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    BTW, add some Techart side skirts and bumpers on this baby and it will look hot!

    Re: 911 (997) Turbo Cabriolet - Official Pictures/

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    One point on which I think Nick is definitely wrong is with regard to the resale value of the TT Cab. Other than the 996 GT2, I would say that the 996 TT Cab and the 996 TTS Cab have retained their value extremely well, especially for a daily driver car. In fact, I have recently seen two low mile '05 996 TTS Cabs on sale for $140K, which is close to the original sticker. Most TT Cabs are selling for around $100K - $110K. I would be willing to wager that the percentage depreciation for a 996TT Cab is similar to the depreciation on a 360 Spyder with similar miles. Further, in several years these cars could actually start to appreciate, rather than the other way. We have seen this with the 993 TTS and 993 TT Cabs (admitedly, the 996 was not as loved as the 993). The reason Fs hold their value is because of the laws of supply and demand. The same holds true with regard to the limited production of the TT Cab and especially the TTS Cab. My guess is that the 997 TT Cab and 997 TTS Cab will each one day be worth more than the original purchase price.



    whenever new models come out with significant improvements and without significant price increases, you can expect to see prices of the old model fall. this is especially true when manufacturers such as ferrari and porsche are producing record numbers of cars.

    there were around 2,800 996tt and tts cabs sold in north america from late 2003 to 2006. i think you will find the values dropping further especially as supply of used cabs increase due to owners upgrading to 997tt cabs. i had a thread on rl with information on 996tt sales. http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?p=3771954&highlight=north#post3771954

    check the prices on 360 spyders again. in canada, they are starting to converge on the prices of 360 coupes (+10-15%) whereas a year ago, spyders used to command hefty premiums. it looks like a buyers market for spyders as there are well over a dozen clean 360 spyders looking for new homes,

     
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