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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    So then this exactly the type of video you'd want to see -- cars going flat out on a highway from various speeds.

     

    Yeah but for him, it's legal for him to travel at those speed, AND their highway is built for those speed also, PLUS the other drivers are also used to seeing those speed on the highway.

     

    This is actually the most important thing...people here are used to these speeds and expect them. Usually.

    What makes it dangerous are drivers from other countries (mostly NL, B, CH and A, no offense meant) because they just move to the passing lane without taking in consideration the guy (me Smiley) who closes in at 300 kph. No problem for me because I count this in and usually avoid passing cars at those speeds (I slow down, to be sure) but this is how accidents often happen.

    I have a buddy who does full speed (300-350 kph) on the Autobahn and doesn't slow down a bit when he passes other cars. Drove only once with him, never again, he scared the sh.t out of me. His motto: The others need to pay attention. My motto: It doesn't help much if you are right and the other guy is wrong but you are dead because he didn't pay attention. Smiley 

    I hate it to drive with others, incl. professional drivers. I think I mentioned it, I had a private drive with Lars Kern in Weissach and I cannot say I enjoyed it, especially since Lars tried to scare me. Smiley I'm not a good passenger, sorry.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Plenty of accidents on the autobahn going high speeds and IIRC, and being legally allowed to go those speeds does not absolve you in the event of an accident, even if someone else is the one who moves in your lane.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Plenty of accidents on the autobahn going high speeds and IIRC, and being legally allowed to go those speeds does not absolve you in the event of an accident, even if someone else is the one who moves in your lane.

    What many don't know: In Germany, when there is no speed limit on certain parts of the Autobahn, we can drive as fast as we want/can but if you pass 130 kph, you take full responsibility of your actions because 130 kph is basically the "recommended" speed (Richtgeschwindigkeit) and courts have given drivers driving faster than 130 kph a "complicity" if an accident happens.

    Very tricky law over here but in the end, it doesn't matter because drivers of high performance cars usually have a full coverage insurance. I just know of one guy who didn't have full coverage for his Ferrari because he thought nothing would ever happen to him (his fault). Well...at around 200 kph, a car moved in front of him, he touched him barely when he tried to brake hard, that car in front of him got out of control, crashed into the middle crash barrier, turned, hit the Ferrari and both ended up in a ditch.

    In consequence, the insurance of the other driver paid only half of his damage (he had witnesses that the other car was to blame), it went to court and he lost. Very common ruling here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Looks good, TB. Stick some of the latest rubber on it and you'll find that it's performance is a heck of a lot better than even the magazines claim. I've been tempted by Pacific Blue 570s. Great car for the (used) money.

    Thanks for the congrats gents Smiley

    This car has the street oriented PZeros fitted, which latest rubber are you thinking of MPS4S or Cup 2 ?


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    McLaren 570S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Well, the 570 came out back in Fall/Winter 2015. I'm pretty sure there are new compounds for all the Pirellis since then, and if the 570 is used, it probably does have the older tires. You'll have to do some research into what tires you have, I guess.

    All the lap times you've seen recently are on the latest compounds -- 720S, Performante, AM GTR, etc. 

    You should be able to get newer Pzeros or Corsa for the 570. I'm not sure they make a Trofeo that would fit it. While I have no scientific data to back it up, most people seem to say the new Pzeros are similar in performance to the old Corsas, and the new Corsas are similar in performance to the new Trofeos.

    I believe RC said he has the latest Pzero compounds on his R8 and they are much better than the old Pzeros.

    Whether or not you care about a 1s lap time improvement in another story. I'm sure they car will handle normal roads just fine as is. Still, if you need new tires you might as well get the best ones, and better tires is a heck of a lot cheaper than buying HP and CF options...

    Oh, and judging by your signature you don't seem terrible averse to modding cars. Someone just posted about their modest 570 modes yield 10s in the 1/4 at 143 mph. Was something like a tune, downpipes, etc. Pretty modest stuff.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Oh wow, congrats Toby! Fantastic colour scheme.  Is it Storm Grey? If so I was admiring a similar one for sale on the web the other day..


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I’m interested in hearing your impressions about the handling and especially the traction situation regarding the open diff. I’d love one, and would probably drive it in winter a bit. My Boxster with LSD was fun in the snow, but the previous one without LSD struggled a bit. I wonder if the other clever electronics compensate? 


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    It is indeed storm grey and it has a lovely Alcantara/leather interior - I will for sure be driving it all winter and will certainly report my findings kiss


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    McLaren 570S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Lovely kiss

    I was looking at this one..  www.autoscout24.ch/5295066 - very similar, but I prefer the orange details on yours to the yellow on that one.


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    That is very similar to mine even the price, that appears to have leather dash and steering wheel whereas mine is grey alcantara. even produced around the same time (mine's May 17).


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    McLaren 570S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:

    That is very similar to mine even the price, that appears to have leather dash and steering wheel whereas mine is grey alcantara. even produced around the same time (mine's May 17).

    Congratulations  - a wise choice SmileySmiley.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:

    It is indeed storm grey and it has a lovely Alcantara/leather interior - I will for sure be driving it all winter and will certainly report my findings kiss

     

    Many congrats Smiley Will be very interesting to read a review how the car can be used as a daily driver in winter Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Well, the 570 came out back in Fall/Winter 2015. I'm pretty sure there are new compounds for all the Pirellis since then, and if the 570 is used, it probably does have the older tires. You'll have to do some research into what tires you have, I guess.

    All the lap times you've seen recently are on the latest compounds -- 720S, Performante, AM GTR, etc. 

    You should be able to get newer Pzeros or Corsa for the 570. I'm not sure they make a Trofeo that would fit it. While I have no scientific data to back it up, most people seem to say the new Pzeros are similar in performance to the old Corsas, and the new Corsas are similar in performance to the new Trofeos.

    I believe RC said he has the latest Pzero compounds on his R8 and they are much better than the old Pzeros.

    Whether or not you care about a 1s lap time improvement in another story. I'm sure they car will handle normal roads just fine as is. Still, if you need new tires you might as well get the best ones, and better tires is a heck of a lot cheaper than buying HP and CF options...

    Oh, and judging by your signature you don't seem terrible averse to modding cars. Someone just posted about their modest 570 modes yield 10s in the 1/4 at 143 mph. Was something like a tune, downpipes, etc. Pretty modest stuff.

    The "best" PZero is the Porsche version but I'm not sure it would be recommendable for the 570S (911=rear engine, 570S= mid engine). Pirelli has improved the PZero a lot over the past couple of years, the new PZ4 is really an improvement but unfortunately there are two versions, the luxury saloon and the sport version. I guess most sportscar manufacturers are using the sport version.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Crayphile and Marcus wink

    Re the tyres. the car has the standard non track Pzero option on it Manufactured end of May this year so likely the latest tyres, I won't be tracking this car it is for fun DDing so I think the only other tyre I'd consider as alternative is the new Mich 4S.

    Re modding, from my research (apart from that 9.9s 140 trap 570S which seemed to have ungodly grip) it looks like they have got the balance of torque/traction pretty spot on on this car, it was tested at 0-200 in 8.5s which sounds like great traction to me. There is a Schmee vid knocking round where from a dig the standard 570S beats a 675LT Spider and a modified 570S with claimed 670hp/800NM, the modded one is quicker once up and running but is very traction limited at slower speeds, I think this will be remaining stock for me.


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    McLaren 570S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Yeah, I saw a video where a standard one beat a modded one and an LT. Honestly, even stock the car is more that quick enough for any real world road. It's pretty much 12C/650S quick, and 12C was already so quick that you were blowing speed limits within an instant.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Yeah, I saw a video where a standard one beat a modded one and an LT. Honestly, even stock the car is more that quick enough for any real world road. It's pretty much 12C/650S quick, and 12C was already so quick that you were blowing speed limits within an instant.

    The 570S is a very good deal, my local McLaren dealer has three slightly used 2016 570S at 170-180k EUR, fully loaded, prices are negotiable. Not bad.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Congrats Toby, looking forward for your DD impression


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:
    TB993tt:
     

    I was more or less told I wouldn't be getting a GT2RS by my dealer this weekend, they have 126 people who want one and I haven't bought enough cars from them in comparison to other better customers, purely business it seems and whilst they all seem to believe that the overs market will continue unabated and all GT2RSs will instantly show a 50K + profit they have to look after the people who have "looked after" them.

    Following this I went to our local McLaren showroom (it is nearbye) and sat in the 720S and chewed the fat with the sales people. I am probably the most die hard Porsche guy on here (next to Leawood) having driven exclusively 911s since 1988 and I am seriously thinking about a change, I don't want to but I am finding it hard to channel my car emotions to a brand who IMO are not looking after their core support Smiley

    On a Mclaren note, notice the measured torque figure, 771NM @ 6930rpm and peak power at 7580rpm that means the power curve is flat at right around 750PS for 650rpm, that is a LOT of power - an exciting Ricardo engine Smiley 

    Well I've been researching hard on Mclaren road cars and spent even more time in the showroom, I really need a car with at least 3 seats to get the best use out of it but maybe I can get some DD use out of a two seater.

    I was initially attracted to the 675LT but eventually decided that it wasn't really suitable as anything but a fun weekend car, its a bit wide, hard to get into, bad turning circle and pretty low also my Mrs thought it didn't look great Smiley

    Next I thought hard about the 720S which is certainly an incredible thing and ticks most boxes but the more stuff I watched and read I didn't feel confident to get one of these in case I decided I didn't actually like the Mclarens, a short test drive doesn't really tell you what these cars are like to live with and use most days, For me spending 250+K with a risk that it didn't work for me and the probable large depreciation was too unpalatable..

    The car which kept jumping out at me was the 570S, it looked fantastic and all the reviews showed to me that this car really is a sweet spot in the current line up sure it is not as ballistically quick as the 720S but it's certainly as quick as a 911 Turbo S and that's no slouch. I started thinking this could be the ideal Mclaren entry car which certainly could be an entertaining DD.

    So back in the showroom Saturday afternoon, a new (used) car had come into stock. about an hour later my debit card had taken a beating.

      

     

    Best color combo for this car! Congrats


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    amazes me everytime that it real life a 570 looks so much better than in any picture !  kiss


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Agreed, my jeweler has a 570S exactly in this color, looks amazing and not flashy at all. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Congrats! Agree with you, it is the sweet spot in the lineup 


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    So I driven around 1000 miles in the 570S in mostly inclement weather in daily driving which involves all sorts of roads traffic and speeds.

    My main comparative for this car is my 997 GT2 which has solid joints and Dutch manufactured Tractive DDA shocks with active DSC control, Cup 2s and a very torquey engine. I can also directly compare with the 991.2 Turbo S which I ran for a couple of months this summer.

    The 570S has 600NM of torque it comes in very smoothly with little discernible lag the mapping brings the boost in gradually and linearly and the throttle mapping seems to give very accurate control which means modulating the acceleration and traction is easy and intuitive. 600NM is not a huge figure now days but this engine delivers it from low revs all the way up to near 7000rpm this gives a feeling of power delivery like a giant elastic band, in the dry the 285 tyres have great traction and together with brilliant dual clutch gear changes the car accelerates fast, the 0-200 in 8.5s achieved in one of the tests feels very believable.

    The low torque makes the car feel very friendly for me certainly compared to the surging 900+NM of my GT2 but also compared to the 991 Turbo S which feels quite brutish with its flat 750NM slug of torque.

    I found the 991 Turbo S a bit sterile in many ways, at idle the engine could barely be heard or felt and even in manic mode it still sounded and felt like a giant very efficient vacuum cleaner, in contrast at idle the Riccardo V8 has a nice vibration through the cabin and a gruff note which continues to grow as the revs are exploited and a gear change at full load and high revs is an exciting thing particularly in track mode where there is an audible crack during the change. 

    The steering on the 570S is amazing, I thought my GT2 was sharp, my GT2 is sharp and it makes the Turbo S feel disconnected but the McLaren is on another level, "like a go kart" is much overused but it is correct for this car the steering is super direct but has delicious feel, lovely to use even just pottering in traffic and the strangely shaped steering wheel which is sort of ellipsoidal at 12 o'clock feels really special to use. When I get in my GT2 after a steer in the 570 it shocks me how vague my GT2 feels and I know it is not vague by any normal measure !

    The Ceramic brakes on the 570 feel quite wooden and need a good prod  also they seem to be affected by water much more than the Porsche PCCB set up, certainly my GT2 brakes feel sharper and on balance nicer to use and of course the Turbo S brakes are the best out there.

    The 570 handles delicately feeling like it is quite grip limited (inclement weather mostly remember) it will spin an inside tyre quiet a lot which I'm not a fan of, I prefer a bit more grip which my GT2 and its proper 40/60LSD delivers. The 570 is a real delight to drive and I'm thoroughly enjoying it I've done a bit of back to backing with the GT2 and was struck with how much more traction the 911 has even on Cup 2s in the wet the 911 can put a lot more torque on the road than the 570 but there are both incredibly great cars to drive. The 570 has a nice ride similar I would say to the Turbo S in terms of nuggetty comfort maybe a tad better certainly very well resolved.

    The biggest surprise for me is the affect the McLaren has on others, my regular Basket ball crew who are used to me turning up in my 911s and some of them even remember my CGT but this thing !!! literally they crowded round after the game and wanted to admire and talk about it. The car gets a LOT of attention wherever you go and most of it seems positive it makes a 911 seem invisible.


    bbcode image
    --

     

     

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    McLaren 570S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:

    So I driven around 1000 miles in the 570S in mostly inclement weather in daily driving which involves all sorts of roads traffic and speeds.

    My main comparative for this car is my 997 GT2 which has solid joints and Dutch manufactured Tractive DDA shocks with active DSC control, Cup 2s and a very torquey engine. I can also directly compare with the 991.2 Turbo S which I ran for a couple of months this summer.

    The 570S has 600NM of torque it comes in very smoothly with little discernible lag the mapping brings the boost in gradually and linearly and the throttle mapping seems to give very accurate control which means modulating the acceleration and traction is easy and intuitive. 600NM is not a huge figure now days but this engine delivers it from low revs all the way up to near 7000rpm this gives a feeling of power delivery like a giant elastic band, in the dry the 285 tyres have great traction and together with brilliant dual clutch gear changes the car accelerates fast, the 0-200 in 8.5s achieved in one of the tests feels very believable.

    The low torque makes the car feel very friendly for me certainly compared to the surging 900+NM of my GT2 but also compared to the 991 Turbo S which feels quite brutish with its flat 750NM slug of torque.

    I found the 991 Turbo S a bit sterile in many ways, at idle the engine could barely be heard or felt and even in manic mode it still sounded and felt like a giant very efficient vacuum cleaner, in contrast at idle the Riccardo V8 has a nice vibration through the cabin at idle and a gruff note which continues to grow as the revs are exploited and a gear change at full load and high revs is an exciting thing particularly in track mode where there is an audible crack during the change. 

    The steering on the 570S is amazing, I thought my GT2 was sharp, my GT2 is sharp and it makes the Turbo S feel disconnected but the McLaren is on another level, "like a go kart" is much overused but it is correct for this car the steering is super direct but has delicious feel, lovely to use even just pottering in traffic and the strangely shaped steering wheel which is sort of ellipsoidal at 12 o'clock feels really special to use. When I get in my GT2 after a steer in the 570 it shocks me how vague my GT2 feels and I know it is not vague by any normal measure !

    The Ceramic brakes on the 570 feel quite wooden and need a good prod  also they seem to be affected by water much more than the Porsche PCCB set up, certainly my GT2 brakes feel sharper and on balance nicer to use and of course the Turbo S brakes are the best out there.

    The 570 handles delicately feeling like it is quite grip limited (inclement weather mostly remember) it will spin an inside tyre quiet a lot which I'm not a fan of, I prefer a bit more grip which my GT2 and its proper 40/60LSD delivers. The 570 is a real delight to drive and I'm thoroughly enjoying it I've done a bit of back to backing with the GT2 and was struck with how much more traction the 911 has even on Cup 2s in the wet the 911 can put a lot more torque on the road than the 570 but there are both incredibly great cars to drive. The 570 has a nice ride similar I would say to the Turbo S in terms of nuggetty comfort maybe a tad better certainly very well resolved.

    The biggest surprise for me is the affect the McLaren has on others, my regular Basket ball crew who are used to me turning up in my 911s and some of them even remember my CGT but this thing !!! literally they crowded round after the game and wanted to admire and talk about it. The car gets a LOT of attention wherever you go and most of it seems positive it makes a 911 seem invisible.


    bbcode image
    --

     

     

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    McLaren 570S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

    Many thanks for the excellent review/comparison.

    Much of what you write reminds me 100% of the feeling the 720s gives you (engine sound/vibrations, steering, handling, brakes). Just the 720s has much more torque and power, i.e. this point is resolved with the 720s Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Thanks for the write up SmileySmiley. Your comments on the steering ( best I have encountered on a road car) and brakes echo what I have been saying for a few years now.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I think the special feeling of driving a Mac has to do with it's carbon tub - makes a huge difference to the overall feel kiss


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Very cool comparison, thank you!


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Great summary. Thanks for taking the effort. 

    Very believable that the McLaren is a car out of a different millennium! 

    on top of it - your Porsche next to it looks like a vintage car. That McLaren vanishes it - sorry for the hard words. 

    Will you buy one?

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    McLaren is certainly the cool kid on the block now, no doubt about it.

    It is sad that Lamborghini couldn't follow, Ferrari didn't seem to care (maybe they started now...) and Porsche is wayyyy behind. Smiley

    Cards will be reshuffled with the next Porsche sportscar platform, let's hope they understand what is at stake here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Next R8, Huracan, 911 carbon monocoque anywhere ? No then forget about this ones as real competition. Maybe Ferrari but i doubt it.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    hunterone:

    Next R8, Huracan, 911 carbon monocoque anywhere ? No then forget about this ones as real competition. Maybe Ferrari but i doubt it.

    Agreed, this is what worries me too but the next platform is "flexible" and there could be a surprise or two. I hope.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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