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    VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Looks like VW got caught programming their cars to detect and switch on full emission controls when the cars were undergoing emissions tests. The article mentions Volkswagen and Audi models. Not clear if this affects Porsche and other VW brands.

    Volkswagen Is Told to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    and good luck to all  the car guys who cant wait to aftermarket " chip " their 991.2 motors for easy 50-100 peak hp gains by simply cranking up the boost ...you dont even want to think about what will happen to your new  car's 4 yr drivetrain warranty ( for an unproven brand new motor - recall the " unproven " new style IMS- related resale disaster for all 9X6 and 997.1 engines ).

    imagine its  later resale ability once its VIN as been permanently " flagged " in the Porsche system worldwide !

    some guy in a industrial park with a lap top may state earnestly that his ECU program itself is not detectable after removal prior to a service visit , but that is irrelevant since its altered boost maps, throttle  fuel trim hx will be embedded everywhere 

    Audi has been doing this snooping with all its turbo motors for the past few years at every service encounter as a condition for any warranty work reimbursement 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Obama again....smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    Obama again....smiley

    yeah ... his posse of Ivy League- brat  political advisors spend all their waking hours exclusively to further neuter vanilla for browny point while retreating on weekends to their parents' leafy estates to enjoy the nearby Ferrari Concours !

    like they have always said and it is becoming more so over time with the concentrating of wealth  " The Masses Are Asses " ! 

    political " sides " has always been a useful tool to divert the " masses " attn , as politicos and their aides all hang out drinking and plotting nightly how to " kick the can " of domestic or world problems further down the decade , long after they each personally have cashed out ...been that way for decades and decades and will always be that way 

    a career in politics always reminds me of the cartoon I saw as a kid but has left a lasting impression : 

    a hyperkinetic scheming wolf is trying to snatch a lamb from a quiet pasture but the stoic immobile sheepdog , eyes always hidden , easily , somehow, thwarts his every move , with severe physical consequenes each time for the wolf ...suddenly a factory whistle goes off in the distance ...they immediately stop and walk together very friendly holding their lunch pails and clocking out their time cards , with parting " see ya tomorrow Sam " and " have a nice evening Bill " ! 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    Obama again....smiley

    yeah...no emissions regs whatsoever in Europe 

    ar least these days, the air in Europes cities is not quite as foul smelling from all its pitiful  little diesel fueled putt putts with their smoky exhausts like a decade or two ago ...perhaps due to said " Obama " regs which I guess he enacted from his mother's womb 

    what is sad from an air pollution standpoint is the degree of young white collar people still cutting decades from their lives smoking everywhere in Europe ..here in the US , smoking stigmatizes you as " po white trash " and is NEVER encountered in upscale urban areas ( and an EASY way for well dressed European tourists to give themselves away to American pickpockets ! ) 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    BTW, it appears that this recall/cheating may affect only cars with diesel engines.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I got a notice in the mail several months ago about a service action for my A3 diesel to reprogram the ECU due to Audi's "continued commitment to the environment".   This article was interesting to see just why Audi was so committed to being green...


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    This story will hurt VW very bad. Cheating enviromental tests, how low can you go? enlightened Must be a PR nightmare.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I thought it was more or less an open secret that everyone did this?


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    spudgun:

    This story will hurt VW very bad. Cheating enviromental tests, how low can you go? enlightened Must be a PR nightmare.

    The administration has used a fat thumb approach for some automakers versus others.  For evidence, look at the way the administration handled Toyota versus its ongoing work with General Motors equipping cars with keys that would fall out of the steering wheel lock.  

    Another interesting point is the EPA doesn't have the resources to "find" this level of deception so the word probably came from another automaker on the violation of the emission standards for the diesel vehicles.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Under the Clean Air Act statutes, the company could be fined up to $37,500 for every vehicle found in violation. That could equal fines approaching $18 billion if the government were to seek maximum penalties.

    -- http://blog.caranddriver.com/volkswagen-allegedly-openly-violated-epa-diesel-laws-could-face-billions-in-fines/

    Ouch! Although, I'm guessing they'll settle for something around $1 Billion. 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    DaveGordon:

    I thought it was more or less an open secret that everyone did this?

    Most manufacturer do it . I don't know if this one is different . Like you said...... it is a known secret .

    That's also why in 2017 the Co2/ fuel consumption tests will be different and include real world driving 


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery ...soon !


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I thought every brand manipulated the engine mapping so that it scored good in tests, but installing a device that detects when they are performing a test so it can activate aother engine management (40 times less polution frown) is on a whole other level.

    That is just bad. Very bad. I hope they get fined big time so it makes headlines worldwide.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Volkswagen said on Sunday that it would halt sales of cars in the United States equipped with the kind of diesel motors that had led regulators to accuse the German company of illegally installing software to evade standards for reducing smog.

    ...

    Professor Dudenhöffer [a professor at the University of Duisburg-Essen, who follows the automobile industry] said that as a result of the E.P.A. action, Mr. Winterkorn could come under pressure to resign.

    “Winterkorn was already damaged,” Professor Dudenhöffer said. “Now there is an accusation of illegal behavior. This story is not over.”

    ...

    -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/business/international/volkswagen-chief-apologizes-for-breach-of-trust-after-recall.html

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    This is getting very messy. The VW shares dropped 15% when trading opened.

    I had a brand new 2009 diesel Golf that sometimes out of the blue barfed thick black smoke, so much the police once stopped me. The dealer never got it fixed, he was clueless. I gave the car back after 6 months. No more VW for me.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Good entry point for VW stock.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    DaveGordon:

    I thought it was more or less an open secret that everyone did this?

    I thought the same. There are and always were also very strong rumors that some car manufacturers are using very sophisticated test cycle/dyno "detecting" ECU software, so their products are in the "green" when tested for emissions and/or excessive power figures. 

    It will be interesting to see what kind of impact this will have upon all car manufacturers because I am pretty sure that US authorities but also European emissions agencies will take a closer look now when it comes to software. Might be the start of a pretty nasty situation for the entire car industry. However, I'm not so sure if some governments actually want to risk a whole car industry for the sake of some environmental data figures. So I suppose Germany won't do much but mostly countries who are not that much involved into the car industry.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    If VW has to recall the 'cheat' cars, won't the fix cripple the performance of these engines? 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    spudgun:

    If VW has to recall the 'cheat' cars, won't the fix cripple the performance of these engines? 

    I kind of have the feeling that US customers will get the right to give back their cars. I heard that VW is already calculating with more than 18 billion "damage", so... Smiley Even if VW would "fix" these cars, software updates won't do the job I'm afraid, so more would be necessary. 

    The truth is: Diesel cars are dirty. Europeans hate to hear this because Diesel cars are very popular here due to the lower Diesel prices at the pump.

    Also, take the new turbo models from various manufacturers: They consume less fuel in the test cycle ranges but drive the new 991.2 Carrera S at top speed on the Autobahn and I am pretty sure that you are going to see a higher fuel consumption than on current n/a cars. Just a guess though but cars from other manufacturers have actually confirmed this.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
     

    Also, take the new turbo models from various manufacturers: They consume less fuel in the test cycle ranges but drive the new 991.2 Carrera S at top speed on the Autobahn and I am pretty sure that you are going to see a higher fuel consumption than on current n/a cars. Just a guess though but cars from other manufacturers have actually confirmed this.

    That is why starting in 2017 the tests will be different and include real world driving. Emissions are often up to 40% higher in real word conditions then on the test . Reason is those small turbo engines are tested under hardly any load . But when driven for real people push the cars and the weight + resistance increases a lot the consumption .

    Small turbo engines are dead . Car manufacturer will come back to bigger engines, as they work better ( cleaner ) in real life conditions 


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery ...soon !


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Gnil:
    RC:
     

    Also, take the new turbo models from various manufacturers: They consume less fuel in the test cycle ranges but drive the new 991.2 Carrera S at top speed on the Autobahn and I am pretty sure that you are going to see a higher fuel consumption than on current n/a cars. Just a guess though but cars from other manufacturers have actually confirmed this.

    That is why starting in 2017 the tests will be different and include real world driving. Emissions are often up to 40% higher in real word conditions then on the test . Reason is those small turbo engines are tested under hardly any load . But when driven for real people push the cars and the weight + resistance increases a lot the consumption .

    Small turbo engines are dead . Car manufacturer will come back to bigger engines, as they work better ( cleaner ) in real life conditions 

    Which means this forum's concerns about the "last" NA engines and praises for the current GTS models are invalidated Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Great timing with the motor show currently in my neighborhood...Taking into account the drop of the value of P. today (~20 % in line with VW), I would think that we need to be much more concerned about the reputational damage rather than with the type of engines to be used now and in future... Should this nightmare spread from the 4cyl. diesel engines to the 6cyl. engines and, further, from VW to Porsche...well, a liar is not to be believed even if he says the truth....


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    d997h:

    Great timing with the motor show currently in my neighborhood...Taking into account the drop of the value of P. today (~20 % in line with VW), I would think that we need to be much more concerned about the reputational damage rather than with the type of engines to be used now and in future... Should this nightmare spread from the 4cyl. diesel engines to the 6cyl. engines and, further, from VW to Porsche...well, a liar is not to be believed even if he says the truth....

    For what it's worth, Porsche SE's main assets are now its shareholdings in the VW Group as a whole, not directly in the Porsche car manufacturer. Porsche SE's stock price would therefore fall pretty much in lock-step with the VW stock, regardless of any risk of contagion of the "problem" from VW brand engines to Porsche engines. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Gnil:
    RC:
     

    Also, take the new turbo models from various manufacturers: They consume less fuel in the test cycle ranges but drive the new 991.2 Carrera S at top speed on the Autobahn and I am pretty sure that you are going to see a higher fuel consumption than on current n/a cars. Just a guess though but cars from other manufacturers have actually confirmed this.

    That is why starting in 2017 the tests will be different and include real world driving. Emissions are often up to 40% higher in real word conditions then on the test . Reason is those small turbo engines are tested under hardly any load . But when driven for real people push the cars and the weight + resistance increases a lot the consumption .

    Small turbo engines are dead . Car manufacturer will come back to bigger engines, as they work better ( cleaner ) in real life conditions 

    I'm afraid the new turbo charged 991.2 engines will stay right through the start of the 992 generation. The 992 Turbo models will get a completely new engine though, basically the "next" generation (unless Porsche decides to make it happen with the 991.2 facelift but I highly doubt it).

    Porsche is working on smaller V8 engines though (not for the 911 though), so at least we won't have to suffer more V6 bullshit in the Cayenne, Panamera and maybe future top models.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I was talking more about the very small engines VW and others are using ( 1.4l ) etc.. to  drive big cars .


    --

     

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery ...soon !

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Could Piech have a piece in this? He was the overlord for a long time, and this happened under his watch that for sure.

    But Piech could also gets his wish of ousting Winterkorn because of this episode. 

    The board perhaps could blame most of the fallout on Piech, then fire Winterkorn too. Who would be next inline to the throne? Muller?

     


    --

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Great that they got them and great they talk about a huge fine. Hopefully the punishment is extremely hard! 

    And then they right away should give hard punishments for every company which tells you car consumption based on idiot tests - with tires having pressure double as high as normal, vents closed with sticking tape and wiper removed from car, etc. etc... It is time that they don't play around with clients and others anymore!

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Why is it only America clamps down on this stuff?? It's like the RoW assume it's acceptable?


    --

    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Gnil:

    I was talking more about the very small engines VW and others are using ( 1.4l ) etc.. to  drive big cars .

    These engines may disappear soon indeed.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    bridggar:

    Why is it only America clamps down on this stuff?? It's like the RoW assume it's acceptable?

    Just wait (I'm afraid...). The problem is that this could be a huge scandal throughout the car industry and similar to Syrian (or Egypt), you need to be careful what you wish for. If this scandal makes the rounds, it could really harm the whole car industry in a very very bad way. Not sure it is worth it because of some numbers, just saying. Yes, laws are laws but if tens of thousands lose their jobs, I don't know... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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