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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    either late 2019 or 2020 - as I have heard more likely 2020 with introduction in late 2019

     

    Very late indeed Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    ALDO:

    either late 2019 or 2020 - as I have heard more likely 2020 with introduction in late 2019

     

    Very late indeed Smiley

    But good for your 650s spider (value retention) Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    McLaren is taking their time. Since there is no performance difference between coupes and spiders, people more or less just opt for the Spider once it shows up. Releasing it too soon leaves sales on the table. It makes better business sense to let people buy the coupe and then the spider, rather than just sell them the Spider.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    McLaren is taking their time. Since there is no performance difference between coupes and spiders, people more or less just opt for the Spider once it shows up. Releasing it too soon leaves sales on the table. It makes better business sense to let people buy the coupe and then the spider, rather than just sell them the Spider.

    If the car has a convincing feeling & feed-back to the driver I would be interested in the spider version, even in 2019 Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    While that may be true, there are lots of people who gotta-have-it-now. Hell, they have hundreds of orders for cars people can't even spec. The first 400 cars are pre-defined, take it or leave it. The existence of that buyer is why the Spider will launch much later than before. They'll sell 3 cars to that guy -- Launch Edition, custom spec, custom spec Spider.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    What a bunch of very strong opinions for people who have mostly not seen the car in real life... Sorry but when someone says "I won't buy the car because of a couple of pics I saw on the internet" is simply ridiculous. The car is groundbreaking design accompanied with a step up in performance especially in convertible. The only convertible car that Porsche has to compete with this is the 918 which costs 10 times the price.

    True but I cannot imagine it looks better (front) live. It remains to be seen though, indeed.

    Any serious car collector around here would probably buy a 720S. Personally if I had the interest to own such cars I would have a TdF, a Hurracan spider and a 720S convertible. The only Porsche of interest short of the 918 is a Singer.

    Huracan Spider, Huracan Performante and 812 Superfast for me please. Smiley You'll hate the TdF...it is barely drivable fast. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    The singer is not a Porsche.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Topspeed:

    Looks great!


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I spent some more time with the car today in Geneva. The front is growing on me.It is very dependent on which angle one looks at the car, withthe side on and 3/4 angle being best.It is nowhere near as bad as the front on photos make it look.The car as a  package of design and performance would appear to be very competitive. However, we can't judge until we have driven it though. I will echo some of the prior posts which point out that some of the crticism here and elsewhere has been over the top.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Looks so much better in white!


    --

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    McLaren is taking their time. Since there is no performance difference between coupes and spiders, people more or less just opt for the Spider once it shows up. Releasing it too soon leaves sales on the table. It makes better business sense to let people buy the coupe and then the spider, rather than just sell them the Spider.

    If the car has a convincing feeling & feed-back to the driver I would be interested in the spider version, even in 2019 Smiley

    McLaren have retained the hydraulic steering assist and resisted the industry-wide move to e-steering - that alone will help with the feeling part.  However Porsche in particular are, by many accounts, slowly improving their electric steering feel - curious to know whether you agree.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    While that may be true, there are lots of people who gotta-have-it-now. Hell, they have hundreds of orders for cars people can't even spec. The first 400 cars are pre-defined, take it or leave it. The existence of that buyer is why the Spider will launch much later than before. They'll sell 3 cars to that guy -- Launch Edition, custom spec, custom spec Spider.

    I think the market for sports cars in that low-high-end price range is quite limited (even today, but even more so after the next global economic turnaround). Most cars McLaren intends to sell they need to sell to people who buy Ferrari (mostly) and Porsche (much fewer, I would estimate) and Lamborghini (in very limited numbers as the market for Lamborghini is also very small). McLaren acts on a very tight and tough market Smiley Will not be easy but so far they managed to survive and even develop into the right directionSmiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    4trac:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    McLaren is taking their time. Since there is no performance difference between coupes and spiders, people more or less just opt for the Spider once it shows up. Releasing it too soon leaves sales on the table. It makes better business sense to let people buy the coupe and then the spider, rather than just sell them the Spider.

    If the car has a convincing feeling & feed-back to the driver I would be interested in the spider version, even in 2019 Smiley

    McLaren have retained the hydraulic steering assist and resisted the industry-wide move to e-steering - that alone will help with the feeling part.  However Porsche in particular are, by many accounts, slowly improving their electric steering feel - curious to know whether you agree.  

    Also, electrical steering is a necessity for 4-whell steering, that in turn is key to optimized track performance, I feel (with all disadvantages in terms of driving feel).


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    crayphile:

    I spent some more time with the car today in Geneva. The front is growing on me.It is very dependent on which angle one looks at the car, withthe side on and 3/4 angle being best.It is nowhere near as bad as the front on photos make it look.The car as a  package of design and performance would appear to be very competitive. However, we can't judge until we have driven it though. I will echo some of the prior posts which point out that some of the crticism here and elsewhere has been over the top.

    Same here - the more I look at the pictures (in white, dark red, black) the  better the car looks...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    They sold like 3500 cars last year, and expect to sell more this year. I think the market size can easily support them.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Regarding the steering discussion, actually, it has a bit of a hybrid system introduced with thsi 720S, which they call the electro-hydraulic steering, not 100% hydraulic, like it was with the previous McLaren models


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    They sold like 3500 cars last year, and expect to sell more this year. I think the market size can easily support them.

    Just look at the resale market to see the dimension of the problem... There are not enough people in this world to fulfill all the sales expectations of Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Porsche... Not even in these days (meaning: before the next global economic crisis).


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    EnglishManInNY:

    Looks so much better in white!

    Faster too.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SLICKNICK:

    Regarding the steering discussion, actually, it has a bit of a hybrid system introduced with thsi 720S, which they call the electro-hydraulic steering, not 100% hydraulic, like it was with the previous McLaren models

    My understanding (and McL owners may correct me) is that their system has always been electro-hydraulic from day 1, but the electro part is just an electric motor that pressurizes the hydraulic line (ie as opposed to an engine driven belt) - the rack itself is full hydraulic assist thus preserves traditional steering feel. 

    Edit: just to make sure this is understood- here is a pic of the first 12C; clearly showing the electric motor / pump, short black hydraulic lines to the rack, and the hydraulic rack.  Slick system, and I have always thought Porsche caved too quickly to full electric steering. 

    IMG_0730.JPG
    --

     

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    Adnan,

    Are you tempted to make a change?  

    Btw, my brother was in Geneva and he thinks car looks good. Pretty futuristic, in his opinion. He called it Star Trek like...

    I am pretty sure Adnan is thinking about a change, otherwise he wouldn't defend that ugly car. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    you have seen it on my Whatsapp screenshot post Smiley


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    you have seen it on my Whatsapp screenshot post Smiley

    Smiley Smiley

    When?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Ziggy:
    Topspeed:

    Looks great!

    From this angle, it looks OK. Smiley I am curious about a black car...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    They sold like 3500 cars last year, and expect to sell more this year. I think the market size can easily support them.

    Just look at the resale market to see the dimension of the problem... There are not enough people in this world to fulfill all the sales expectations of Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Porsche... Not even in these days (meaning: before the next global economic crisis).

    Yes there are. Look at the resale market for Bentley and Rolls Royce and every other $200-400K car. There are tons of people who buy multiple cars for all the brands and many people who own cars simultaneously from all brand. Hell, people like Crayphile own at least 1 of each at any given time and upgrade seemingly every year to the latest model.

    Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche collectively sell maybe 15K cars per year. There are many millions of people in the world with vast amounts of wealth.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Love the "tub" that is visible when you open the door, it does add a layer of excitement getting into the car (based on my experience with the 570S) and my own Lotus.

    Orange is not the color for this car, though McLaren's orange has a ton of metallic flake / creamsicle nature to it that does not come off in photos well.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Just looks like a students project in progress... Aka, unfinished one...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

     
    ALDO:

    Before buying mine 650 s I had three meetings with sales guy from Ferrari about a 488. Two times with me my complete family. After each visit, either me or in case with the family, we came to the conclusion that a 488 is not the car for me. My family is strong related to sports cars as a consumer and from the other side (Smiley). We have visited also my friend who works for Bentley and Lamborghini (Gohm) and we did not spend more then 5 minutes looking at a Huracan. Huracan is the last car I would buy. In any case I would take R8 before Huracan. 

    --

    Why? 


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Those huge big eyes in front don´t look good on pictures, maybe life it can look better, still not my cup of tea. Anyway McLaren is shaking a very demanding market on a very positive way placing the tech & performance bar very high, kudos to them Smiley


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I love the brand, I love the handling of their cars and their performance level.

    But I don't buy a McL due to their heavy depreciation. I hope this will change one day. 


    --

    991 GT3 RS / Gone: Cayman GT4, 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Boyko23:

    Just looks like a students project in progress... Aka, unfinished one...

    Well, you're spot on -- it's a development car with a bunch of random options for durability and systems testing. The yellow 12C next to it has a 720S dashboard and the 720S has a 650S steering wheel, among other things.


     
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