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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    He should buy a Cayenne or even a Macan...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    He should buy a Cayenne or even a Macan...

    He loves fast sedans but he doesn't want to spend more than 130k EUR. 

    Porsche has some crazy prices lately... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Panamera, 991 and Boxster/Cayman have already crossed the ridiculous price line. Cayenne turbo and turbo S are getting there. The only reasonable priced model is the Macan. I have said it many times, just look at used prices. They are basically unchanged for 10 years yet MSRP is up to the moon. Plus Porsches are getting more generic as the competition gears up. I would never get a Panamera as a sedan at these prices, it makes no sense vs a class S or an S8 or RS6 or a Tesla S. To be a niche product the Panamera needs to be a Ferrari FF competitor (BTW the rumor is the Lusso will come in V8TT soon, maybe shedding the V12 entirely). Right now it is far from it.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Thx guys, feel a bit better about my choice  now. kiss I drove the new S-classe (petrol) for two weeks in Miami last summer and did not like it. Not even close to my Panamera. I'm sure you could configur it better than the one I drove ( seats where terriblelaugh) but still....yes

    And Audi is a no no for me (Sorry RC, but could maybe do an exception for the R8blush). That brand is just not working for me since we had A6 allroad that had nothing but trouble to deliveryes

    So....Panamera it is, the Bentley has to wait another decade or twosmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    I would never get a Panamera as a sedan at these prices, it makes no sense vs a class S or an S8 or RS6 or a Tesla S.

    You are very wrong my friend. I have few friends that can opt any of those luxury saloons but they are horrified with idea to be seen in cars that will make them 10 years older. Panamera fills that niche market very well, and Porsche is aware of that. Price is not issue when you are searching for toy that will make you younger Smiley 


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    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    While I had no problems with the hump on the original design, I will admit that its absence will probably take another 5-10 years off the driver, compared to the original. Imagine though, a 20 year-old could end up looking like a 5 year-old in the new Panamera.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Video of the Nürburgring record for PT, 7:38. Very impressive.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcjX6alIcKs


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Milanno:
    SciFrog:

    I would never get a Panamera as a sedan at these prices, it makes no sense vs a class S or an S8 or RS6 or a Tesla S.

    You are very wrong my friend. I have few friends that can opt any of those luxury saloons but they are horrified with idea to be seen in cars that will make them 10 years older. Panamera fills that niche market very well, and Porsche is aware of that. Price is not issue when you are searching for toy that will make you younger Smiley 

    And that's exactly why I won't buy any of these sedans including the Panamera. Here it is only older guys or women.

    Joke aside, I hope the did something with the drive feel of the new Panamera. I couldn't believe how boring the old turbo was.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Panamera, 991 and Boxster/Cayman have already crossed the ridiculous price line.

    300 hp Cayman is $53k.  Not cheap, but not bad...


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    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Base prices are deceiving. Built a base Cayman PDK and after 6 clicks of things that should be standard it was $74k, and still no leather or any really cool option...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    If the Panamera S Diesel has the same engine as the Cayenne S Diesel, which I suspect it is, then that engine is actually quite a gem. That V8 has plenty of power around town and plenty good for up to 240km/hr. I was driven in one in Leipzig back in April, I was impressed. 

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    apias:

    While I had no problems with the hump on the original design, I will admit that its absence will probably take another 5-10 years off the driver, compared to the original. Imagine though, a 20 year-old could end up looking like a 5 year-old in the new Panamera.

    My favorite car-age post post of the month :) Now we have to add the dresscode and the neighbourhood related issues to the conversation. 

    I love everything I see about the new Panamera except the inadequate hp for this weight and price. It will be badly spanked on the autobanhn by everything new with an AMG, //M and RS badge and we all know that for those who spend EUR 200 000 for a sport sedan those things matter even if only for bragging rights. 

    Judging by the latest 7-series (on which the next 5 will be based) and the current S/E-class I don't expect anything to touch thr Panamera in terms of chassis precision. But I am not sure if this will be appreciaed by anyone else except the 911 owners looking for a saloon.

    At 550 hp it would be the least powerfull, heaviest and most expensive saloon I've bought since 2009...Not an easy decision. And yet I am very tempted. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Isn't the next A8 supposed to be on the same platform as the Panamera and the Bentley? That could spell real trouble for Porsche.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    panamera.jpg


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    Happy Driving

    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    OMG it's night and day. Too bad those ugly gen 1 will roam the streets with a Porsche badge. IMO not good for brand image. Even the Cayenne aged better! 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Yes, actually Cayenne gen 2 pre-FL looks way better than the facelift and especially GTS, it's pleasure to see at the roads.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I'm unable to see any of the possitive coments about the new Panamera that i'm reading. Yes, it gets improved bits here and there but other than that remains the same: a big whale and chinese design. I'm pretty sure that if it doesn't have a Porsche badge on it, the feedback would've been very different.

    One thing that I can't stand with f.e. is this weird 911ish shape which is nice in a sportcar but not in a long wheelbase sedan, lacking of any sense of proportion imho.

    For me it's a conceptual problem, as Whoopsy -if I'm not mistaken- pointed. Its target should have been the executive segment since Porsche cars are meant to be driven. Battling against S class, A8 and 7 series, whose customers are meant to be driven themselves -if that makes any sense-, it's absurd.

    Sucess formula: rs6 wheelbase + SW shape + Porsche language design = Profit. Would sell like hot cakes.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The new Panamera Turbo cannot be compared to the current S8, these cars are from two different generations.

    Still, I think that Porsche prices entered a surreal level, depending on the model you choose and especially when you add many options. 

    Porsche had to change the Panamera radically because they lost market share. However, I think that a starting price over 113k EUR is ridiculous...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    The new Panamera Turbo cannot be compared to the current S8, these cars are from two different generations.

    Still, I think that Porsche prices entered a surreal level, depending on the model you choose and especially when you add many options. 

    Porsche had to change the Panamera radically because they lost market share. However, I think that a starting price over 113k EUR is ridiculous...

    Completely agree - this is outrageous. I know they're two different cars with different purposes, but in Kuwait, I can option a Macan Turbo to the max with every option I'd want thrown at it and still drive it off the lot at the same price as a very minimally optioned Panamera V6 RWD. With Porsches, options make the car and you're already entering the top of the market so you'd want to spec the car the way you want it.

    Besides, a Panamera 4S at well over 100K EUR with [although an admittedly wonderful] a V6 - yikes.

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S [gone but never forgotten]


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    The new Panamera Turbo cannot be compared to the current S8, these cars are from two different generations.

    Still, I think that Porsche prices entered a surreal level, depending on the model you choose and especially when you add many options. 

    Porsche had to change the Panamera radically because they lost market share. However, I think that a starting price over 113k EUR is ridiculous...

    Before I bought my S8 Plus I was considering a Panamera Turbo S.

    I was looking at a nicely equipped car with sticker at $220k, was offered a $40K discount (well below dealer cost), since it was in dealer's inventory far too long for his taste.

    Decided on S8 Plus in the end, drove better, slightly quicker and better looking (my personal opinion).

    All available equipment (incl. CCBs) and the sticker came to $154K with sale price at $145k.

    Yes, Panamera is severely overpriced...... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The Audi S8 is a great alternative to the Panamera that's for sure. Not counting price, the top models are both 4.0L twin turbo AWD sedans. It will be especially more so for the next gen S8 which will ride on the same platform.

    Audi has the adding advantage of a 3 seat rear, granted, Porsche could have that option out soon. But.

    The Porsche badge alone is not enough to differentiate, they had to put something more in order to justify the higher price. Going performance hybrid for the top model Turbo S will be a great benefit to add performance and separate the Audi from the Porsche.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    High performance but at what price? Hybrid will be fast but very heavy and will be above $200k, within a striking distance of a 1.5 year old FF with 5k miles...

    I also find despicable the fact that a loaded Macan turbo is the same price as a base Panamera. There is no way the Panamera is that much expensive to build. This is just price gouging.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    As you can tell by my love of the 918 that I value technology and performance more than weight issue.

    If the chassis is tuned well and performance is there, weight issue is not even noticeable, see the 918.

    Torque from electric motors transform a car, even a pig can be made agile simple from the instant torque, point and shoot. 

    If Porsche is going to charge me 230k+ for a top end Turbo S, it better have the latest tech and performance.

    I have the FF already, and if the next Panamera Turbo S do indeed have performance hybrid power, I will switch in a heart beat, even giving up the wonderful V12 sound.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I doubt you will switch if the Panamera is a still as boring to drive as the last version...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I wonder how Porsche will position the Mission E given a hybrid turbo S. The mission E should be superior in many ways. But will Porsche let it be. 


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I suspect the Mission E will be of the 5 series/E class size, so they are aiming for different market. Also I don't see Mission E as superior, Panamera will have more range, more human room, more cargo room, quite possibly much higher top speed too. 

    The Mission E seems likely to be the car between a 911 and the much bigger Panamera. 

    Plus, the Mission E will still be a few years away, my guess is 2020, if not 2019. 

    If the Mission E proved to be a success, then perhaps Porsche might phase out the Panamera and base their next replacement on the Mission E.

     

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    I doubt you will switch if the Panamera is a still as boring to drive as the last version...

     

    I actually drove the Panamera hybrid on a race track. It is actually quite nice, very different feeling than normal on road.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Hey RC. We can assume that the new 911 due in about 2/2 and half years will pack pretty much the same interior as the new Panamera right?

     

    Regards.


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    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    I doubt you will switch if the Panamera is a still as boring to drive as the last version...

    You don´t get tired telling us that the Panamera (turbo) is boring to drive. Maybe you can explain us what makes this car so boring to drive. What are other sedans making better that they are more enjoyable to drive.

     


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    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    I suspect the Mission E will be of the 5 series/E class size, so they are aiming for different market. Also I don't see Mission E as superior, Panamera will have more range, more human room, more cargo room, quite possibly much higher top speed too. 

    The Mission E seems likely to be the car between a 911 and the much bigger Panamera. 

    Plus, the Mission E will still be a few years away, my guess is 2020, if not 2019. 

    If the Mission E proved to be a success, then perhaps Porsche might phase out the Panamera and base their next replacement on the Mission E.

     

     

    Ok superior for what I expect. Looks. Packaging. Acceleration should be amazing unless they hold it back. Top speed - who cares. Sound. Hell if the acceleration is there I will never miss the sound. I will be too busy thinking Oh crap it's fast! Weight well the new panie is a pig still which is surprising. I can't imagine the mission e will be much more heavy. Tech well ok it should be the next level from here. 4 seater. Oh they are on par. So why would I want the new panie. Only if Porsche castrate their new EV. 


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


     
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