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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    throt:
    bluelines:
    throt:

    Are the LT's a complete sell out, is it a lottery getting one ?.

    Try trading in your rocking horse with wooden balls? Smiley Smiley

    Do you think I get a fair price, bud, hahaha.. Smiley..

    As long as the balls are intact I could imagine you get a decent price Smiley Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Futch:

    Another great day at Silvertone GP track. This time the LFA has a brand new battery and it started!

    Verdict is confirmed. The RS is a beast on the track but the LT is more fun. It's more agile and so responsive. The front end is so sharp, and yet the front tyres are so skinny, I wonder how they've pulled that one off.

    LFA feels a bit dated in this company but by far the best sounding, and a lot of fun too, fantastic car.

    The LT is probably the most rounded, and on top of that, it's just so fast! I mean, ridiculously fast. It's Laferrari fast. Tyre grip somehow was a lot better this time compared to last time. Similar conditions though, it's odd.

    Futch, Just out of curiousity how fast can you swing the RS / LT around the GP track on Silverstone ?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    bluelines:
    throt:
    bluelines:
    throt:

    Are the LT's a complete sell out, is it a lottery getting one ?.

    Try trading in your rocking horse with wooden balls? Smiley Smiley

    Do you think I get a fair price, bud, hahaha.. Smiley..

    As long as the balls are intact I could imagine you get a decent price Smiley Smiley

    Thanks for the heads up, buddy. I call them to book a double appointment then for me and the horse.

    They are intact and are mint condition by the way....Smiley....


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    BjoernB:

    LT is overrated - spoke with somebody Close to the factory and the successor of the 650S will have well over 700 HP - once this is out the LT Prices will drop again.......ridiculous to pay 600k CHF for such a car.

    I also believe that the 650S is one of the best sportscars out there for reasonable Money - used in CH you can get them around 200k......from 350 down.....

    I agree the prices will most probably drop once the P14 comes out, and I would not pay a premium for a 675LT now. However, let me be clear having owned a 12C, 650S and a 675LT that the LT is  light years ahed of the 650S in terms of driver involvement, and quite markedly quicker and with much better handling than the 650S.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    all agree - but here in CH you pay a 250-300k CHF premium for it......- Mclaren told me that they will market the successor of the 650 above the old one - to create a gap again towards 488 or Huracan - but I am sure that the "new" one will be not far off a existing 675 LT without paying a ridiculous premium. here Mac Prices have fallen considerable and I would just not pay 350k for a new one knowing than within 10k km I can get it 150k cheaper.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Yeah. I just had a look at Autoscout and these McL prices are nuts. A less than two years old car with about 10k km on the clock has dropped CHF 170k! WTF! angel

    The 570S looks very interesting. This would suit me indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    bluelines:

    The 570S looks very interesting. This would suit me indecision

    Are you sure, its a fast car, buddy Smiley


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    throt:
    bluelines:

    The 570S looks very interesting. This would suit me indecision

    Are you sure, its a fast car, buddy Smiley

    Smiley  


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

     A used 12C or 650S Spider would be tempting...if the prices continue to drop.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    throt:
    bluelines:

    The 570S looks very interesting. This would suit me indecision

    Are you sure, its a fast car, buddy Smiley

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:
    pmarkow:

    i tend to agree that mclaren produces great cars. just their model-series policy terns me off. a new series every 6 months and all with the same engine (up to tweaks). 

    Not even close to what Porsche does. McLaren really has never had more than 2 models available at one time and they've only actually made 3 cars over the last  5 years.

    P11
    P11/P12
    P11/P13

     

    Hmm, no.

    12C, 12C Spyder, 650S, 650S Spyder, P1, P1 GTR, 675LT, 675LT Spyder, 570S, 540C, and the up coming 570GT and Spyder.

    That's 12.

    But if we go by platform, then since 2011, McLaren only made variance of 1 car. However McLaren code name the different models is meaningless as they all shared the same platform. Porsche on the other hand has 5, rear engine 911, mid engine Cayman/Boxster, Cayenne, Panamera and the 918.

    Expanding on that, and based on performance within the platform:

    540C --> basic Carrera 2

    570S/570S Spyder -->  Carrera 2S/Carrera 2S cab (Porsche doesn't have a 570GT equivalent 911 variant)

    12C/12C Spyder --> Carrera GTS/Carrera GTS cab

    650S/650S Spyder --> Turbo/Turbo cab (or GT3 and the theoretical GT3 cab)

    675LT/675LT Spyder --> Turbo S/Turbo S cab (or GT3RS and the theoretical GT3RS cab)

    P1/P1 GTR --> GT2/GT2RS

    Even Ferrari has 3.5 platforms, front engine V8, mid engine V8, and the 2 front engine V12 cars which share quite a bit of the front end, but the back end differs enough to almost call them separate platforms.

     

    I said models, not variants. Of course there are a bunch of variants 5 years after production started. What model from any manufacturer doesn't have coupes, cabrios, and track variants 5 years into production?

    12C stopped production very soon after 650S.
    650S was available while P1 was for sale.
    P1 sold out a long time ago and you can't buy them anymore.
    650S is still available now and 570S is as well.
    Next year 650S will be replaced leaving P14 and 570S as available models.

    So like I said, they've never really had more than 2 model available for sale at any given time, and they don't replace them any sooner than anyone else. Most variants come after a year or so, which is normal these days. Coupe, Spider, maybe a year in between, then track car, then track car Spider. It's the normal pattern for exotics nowadays.

    No one really cares about the definition of "platform." As long as the outside, inside, performance, and price are different, that's all that matters.



    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
     

    I said models, not variants. Of course there are a bunch of variants 5 years after production started. What model from any manufacturer doesn't have coupes, cabrios, and track variants 5 years into production?

    12C stopped production very soon after 650S.
    650S was available while P1 was for sale.
    P1 sold out a long time ago and you can't buy them anymore.
    650S is still available now and 570S is as well.
    Next year 650S will be replaced leaving P14 and 570S as available models.

    So like I said, they've never really had more than 2 model available for sale at any given time, and they don't replace them any sooner than anyone else. Most variants come after a year or so, which is normal these days. Coupe, Spider, maybe a year in between, then track car, then track car Spider. It's the normal pattern for exotics nowadays.

    No one really cares about the definition of "platform." As long as the outside, inside, performance, and price are different, that's all that matters.

     

    Models, is just a fancier term for variants in McLaren speak. Something McLaren would like people to use to forget they are still basically building the same car after 5 years. 

    Your last sentence is basically the factory line. McLaren WANTS people to not care about the platform their cars are build on. But many customers do care when they drop down such a big amount on a car. 

    Aston Martin sort of did the same thing, their VH platform is over a decade old. But they never tried to hide that fact, in fact, they are very proud of using the same platform for so long, stressing the versatility of their excellent platform. And Aston at least change up the wheelbase of all the variants and uses different engines. It was shortened to do the Vantage and lengthened to do the Rapide. Aston actually made an effort to make different 'models' out of their common platform, McLaren didn't, and just pump out 'variants'. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:
     

    I said models, not variants. Of course there are a bunch of variants 5 years after production started. What model from any manufacturer doesn't have coupes, cabrios, and track variants 5 years into production?

    12C stopped production very soon after 650S.
    650S was available while P1 was for sale.
    P1 sold out a long time ago and you can't buy them anymore.
    650S is still available now and 570S is as well.
    Next year 650S will be replaced leaving P14 and 570S as available models.

    So like I said, they've never really had more than 2 model available for sale at any given time, and they don't replace them any sooner than anyone else. Most variants come after a year or so, which is normal these days. Coupe, Spider, maybe a year in between, then track car, then track car Spider. It's the normal pattern for exotics nowadays.

    No one really cares about the definition of "platform." As long as the outside, inside, performance, and price are different, that's all that matters.

     

    Models, is just a fancier term for variants in McLaren speak. Something McLaren would like people to use to forget they are still basically building the same car after 5 years. 

    Your last sentence is basically the factory line. McLaren WANTS people to not care about the platform their cars are build on. But many customers do care when they drop down such a big amount on a car. 

    Aston Martin sort of did the same thing, their VH platform is over a decade old. But they never tried to hide that fact, in fact, they are very proud of using the same platform for so long, stressing the versatility of their excellent platform. And Aston at least change up the wheelbase of all the variants and uses different engines. It was shortened to do the Vantage and lengthened to do the Rapide. Aston actually made an effort to make different 'models' out of their common platform, McLaren didn't, and just pump out 'variants'. 

     

    Since when is 5 years old for an exotic? 5 years is the norm these days.

    The current McLaren platform is among the best in the world. They are giving you a more or less "hypercar" platform in every model. Are you saying you want them to make a shittier platform just so you can say you have something different on paper? The tubs are actually different (P1 is a full CF cage,) the suspensions are different on all cars, power is massively different, handling is different, overall performance is different, sound is different, one is a 900hp hybrid. What more do you want? To pay a premium just to have different part numbers on a spec sheet?

    Speaking of wheelbases and engines...

    458 wheelbase: 2650
    488 wheelbase: 2650
    LF wheelbase: 2650

    488 engine: 3.9L V8 TT
    Cali T engine: 3.9L V8 TT

    LF engine: 6.2L V12
    FF engine: 6.2L V12
    F12 engine 6.2L V12
    TDF engine: 6.2L V12
    Lusso engine: 6.2L V12

    It's not a coincidence that there are so many similar specs.

    McLaren makes one type of car -- mid-engine, RWD, 2-seater, very high performance exotics. It's one brand, one image. They are trying to hit different price points, not different niches and customers.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    @noone - so, with that said, are you going to trade in your 12C for a newer McLaren?  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Nope. I've grown less interested in exotic cars in recent years and I'm very particular. When it comes to normal models, I won't buy new and I won't buy evolutionary changes or facelifts. And honestly, I barely drive these days anyway. No need for any new cars. 570S is nice inside and out, and it's nice that it's a bit slower rather that faster, but I'd rather buy it $50K cheaper in a year or two.

    The only car I have any intention of buying, should I get the chance to, is the new Ford GT. Would write the check today and probably keep it forever. I want to drive an American exotic in Europe. USA. USA. USA. Even a last-gen FGT, all black with straight pipes would be awesome to have in Europe. In the US I prefer European exotics, but in Europe I'd rather have muscle cars.

    After that, P14 is the next car I'm interested in and I hope it depreciates $100-150K in the first two years :)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Nope. I've grown less interested in exotic cars in recent years and I'm very particular. When it comes to normal models, I won't buy new and I won't buy evolutionary changes or facelifts. And honestly, I barely drive these days anyway. No need for any new cars. 570S is nice inside and out, and it's nice that it's a bit slower rather that faster, but I'd rather buy it $50K cheaper in a year or two.

    The only car I have any intention of buying, should I get the chance to, is the new Ford GT. Would write the check today and probably keep it forever. I want to drive an American exotic in Europe. USA. USA. USA. Even a last-gen FGT, all black with straight pipes would be awesome to have in Europe. In the US I prefer European exotics, but in Europe I'd rather have muscle cars.

    After that, P14 is the next car I'm interested in and I hope it depreciates $100-150K in the first two years :)

    Serious question, how old are you? 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Early 30s. Why?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Nothing, you sounded like like much older guy with your I'm getting tired with exotics comment. 

    Have you thought about selling your C12?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
     

    Since when is 5 years old for an exotic? 5 years is the norm these days.

    The current McLaren platform is among the best in the world. They are giving you a more or less "hypercar" platform in every model. Are you saying you want them to make a shittier platform just so you can say you have something different on paper? The tubs are actually different (P1 is a full CF cage,) the suspensions are different on all cars, power is massively different, handling is different, overall performance is different, sound is different, one is a 900hp hybrid. What more do you want? To pay a premium just to have different part numbers on a spec sheet?

    Speaking of wheelbases and engines...

    458 wheelbase: 2650
    488 wheelbase: 2650
    LF wheelbase: 2650

    488 engine: 3.9L V8 TT
    Cali T engine: 3.9L V8 TT

    LF engine: 6.2L V12
    FF engine: 6.2L V12
    F12 engine 6.2L V12
    TDF engine: 6.2L V12
    Lusso engine: 6.2L V12

    It's not a coincidence that there are so many similar specs.

    McLaren makes one type of car -- mid-engine, RWD, 2-seater, very high performance exotics. It's one brand, one image. They are trying to hit different price points, not different niches and customers.

     

    You just proven my point. I never said Ferrari doesn't cookie cutter their cars, but at least they mixed up the engines and platforms. 

    It was no secret that the V12 in the LaFerrari came from the F12, which is basically the same V12 Ferrari has been making for a long time.  That V12 has 2 mounting locations for the 2 different platforms, front and mid.

    The V8TT in the 488 is also from the California T, front engine/mid engine difference for the 2 platforms. 

    McLaren on the other hand is still making basically the same car on the same platform with the same engine. Yes the engine has different tunes, yes the tub has been modified, but all the platform hard points are exactly at the same place across all car, for example suspension mount points and gas tanks, front firewall, rear wall and etc. In car industry speak, that's call the exact same car. The exterior skinning can be different but it doesn't matter. Lipsticks and mascara. 

    The so called different 'models' in McLaren speak means 'facelift model' in the rest of the industry. McLaren is trying to hit different price points with one car, tuning it to different level suitable for the price they charge, nothing more.

     

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    @ noone1 and @ Whoopsy you have been having this debate for a while now and we know where you both standSmiley

    @Whoopsy - I know you are not a blind brand loyalist and a true car lover, but its time to drop the single platform whip you use for McLaren and accept that the 675 LT is one helluva car.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Haha, I never said 675LT is not a great car, in fact, I think it's the best car yet from McLaren, even better than the P1! I believe the 675LT was originally McLaren's vision for their halo car, perhaps with a bit more HP from the 3.8L V8, but seeing the competition has gone the hybrid route, it forced McLaren to retrofit a hybrid system onto the 12C platform to create the P1.


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Your opinion of the 675 LT goes in the face of what you're saying. It's proof that those things are highly irrelevant in what a car actually is and how it drives. Suspension mounting point, firewall, gas tank location -- who cares where any of it is when the dynamics are based almost entirely on the active components and how they're tuned?

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    koko:

    Nothing, you sounded like like much older guy with your I'm getting tired with exotics comment. 

    Have you thought about selling your C12?

    Yeah, I have, but I still need a car at the end of the day for the time being and it's already highly depreciated. I bought it way way way under sticker, so still good value to keep it and use it more.

    The biggest issues I have with exotics are that they are getting too quick and the vast number of choices is creating ever increasing rates of depreciation. Just not worth losing so much money on a car that's too quick to drive. I really don't know if I want to own a car that's quicker than a 12C unless it will appreciate or hold value like the new FGT most certainly will. When 0-100 mph is 5.9s and you're rarely going less than 35 mph to start with, it becomes painfully obvious you can't use much throttle unless you're willing to either slam on the brakes right away or get a ticket for 30-50 mph over the speed limit.

    Maybe it's not like this in the middle of nowhere or in other parts of the world, but I feel like every time I even think of having some fun, I decide I'd better not, and then suddenly I pass a cop or something like that and my judgement proves right. US is just too full of police. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Your opinion of the 675 LT goes in the face of what you're saying. It's proof that those things are highly irrelevant in what a car actually is and how it drives. Suspension mounting point, firewall, gas tank location -- who cares where any of it is when the dynamics are based almost entirely on the active components and how they're tuned?

     

     

    At times my own opinion doesn't carry any weight when i go buy something, I was highly critical of the LaFerrari, yet I still wanted one.

    I also trashed the MP4-12C before, I remembered I said it looked like an Ascari, I still ended up with one. 

    I hated the gold fish eye of the 991, yet now I am loving my RS and have an R coming. Both with the gold fish eye.

    F12? The g-string, vagina looking rear end? One of my all time favourite car to drive.

    I don't sugar coat my comments about stuff, I say it as it is. 


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Some beautiful pics. I love this car.

    http://autoweek.com/gallery/car-reviews/gallery-mclaren-675lt-spider-drive-review


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    bluelines:
    throt:
    bluelines:

    The 570S looks very interesting. This would suit me indecision

    Are you sure, its a fast car, buddy Smiley

    Smiley Smiley

    Smiley...Smiley...


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Hard to say what exactly is happening in the beginning since it's not launching, but the 570S seems pretty quick to 300 kph. Sound like he just floors it and the car kinda slowly takes off. Assuming the speedo is accurate, that was about 24s 0-300 on that runway. Seems unlikely to be that quick, but it is what it is in this video.

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Official 0-300km/h for 570S is 26.5s and I can already told you that in forthcoming German car press tests two examples of press cars marginally missed that number. 

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    Official 0-300km/h for 570S is 26.5s and I can already told you that in forthcoming German car press tests two examples of press cars marginally missed that number. 

     

    26.5 seconds is damn quick for a car with "only" 570 hp. Smiley

    488 is not quicker and has 100 hp more. Smiley

     


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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