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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    KresoF1:

    It is fast. Faster on the Ring then 991.1 GT3. 

    Of course, 991.2 GT3 will be faster then 991.1 GT3 RS on the Ring.

    Wow!  If the 991.2 GT3 is faster than the 991 GT3RS for only a 5% price increase over the 991.1 GT3, that really is a bargain and reflects how quickly things are improving!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    bluelines:
    noone1:

    If you're paying 145K for a non-exotic sports car, you're doing something wrong.

    I don't follow this reasoning. This 991 GTS is one amazing product. Probably faster than a 991.1 GT3, but still usable every day all year round with 2+2 seats. Take it to a track and run circles around far more "exotic" cars in the summer or mount a ski rack and drive up in the mountains in the winter. I can't think of a single competitor except for the 991 Turbo (S).

    Exactly. If I was able to give the same use to exotic that I do with the GTS then we can talk... it would probably have 3,000 km instead of 30k+ it has already. Its like saying that if you pay such and such for a non-gold stainless steel Rolex you are doing something wrong Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    pride355:
    KresoF1:
    sfo:

    in the UK, the GTS model is about £9k more than Carrera S .. seems a lot for more power, some alcantara, different bumpers, PSE and CL wheels.

    I disagree. 

    RWD Carrera GTS model is actually a bargain. It has unique wide body, power kit, unique wheels, black accents that you can not get for normal Carrera models etc. It is with same options even cheaper then Carrera S. 

    I agree with you Kreso. I really like the new GTS as I was in love with 997.2 GTS and 991.1 GTS.

    Best 911 variant along with GT3, IMO.

    x2, While it's true I wouldn't trade the 991.2GTS for the 991.2GTS because I would loose the sound and character of the atmospheric engine, if I had to buy a new 911, it would be the 991.2GTS (besides the GT3). It looks fantastic and with surprising performance for such a versatile and usable car, and a sportier edge that the regular Carreras miss for my taste.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    The sound is a huge difference. Even with sport exhaust, my 991.2 Targa is sedate compared to my GT3. It is a major reason why I will go back to a GT3. Driving around on public streets is boring without an aggressive exhaust. I might as well drive a Prius.


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    What's stopping you using an exotic as much as a GTS other than personal choice? I put 20K miles on my R8 within a few years. Aside from a few times I needed more luggage space, I don't think it's any less usable from day to day.

    The times I couldn't use the R8, I couldn't have used a 911 either.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    To be honest - new 991.2 GTS nothing special :(


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    nberry:

    The sound is a huge difference. Even with sport exhaust, my 991.2 Targa is sedate compared to my GT3. It is a major reason why I will go back to a GT3. Driving around on public streets is boring without an aggressive exhaust. I might as well drive a Prius.

    Personally I could not agree more Nick, though I can see how it may not be as important to others as well. Some people love the quietness of the 991Turbo for example, not my case though.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    noone1:

    What's stopping you using an exotic as much as a GTS other than personal choice? I put 20K miles on my R8 within a few years. Aside from a few times I needed more luggage space, I don't think it's any less usable from day to day.

    The times I couldn't use the R8, I couldn't have used a 911 either.

    Let me guess, no wife and kids? also let me guess, you don't use a sportscar as your daily driver? let me guess again, you don't mind the extra-attention?... the use for an exotic is much more limited, not better, not worse, just a different type of concept in which you cannot drive with your kids on the back should you wish to or have plenty of luggage space, you can't take it anywhere without the hassle of the attention you would get with an exotic, you can't rack up the miles all year around with bullet proof reliability and ease of maintenance, and still enjoy the specific and unique character of the 911 on your mountain roads and hang with the best of them. Best bang for the buck if you ask me, an exotic? not so much, and not that it needs to be either... apples and oranges.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    I don't see the appeal of making anyone sit in the back seat of a 911, or even trying to cram toddlers backs there. Sure, you're technically in a 911, but it's still cramped, it's a hassle, and who really puts the high performance of a 911 to use when they have a car full of people?

    If you have a 150K for a 911, you probably have enough for a proper family car that everyone is comfortable in, is practical, and still has more than enough performance for what you'll do with your wife and kids in the car.

    Like I said, a GTS is a great car if you can literally only have 1 car or are uncomfortable being seen an exotic. It's strange to me though that someone could have 150K to spend on a car, only be able to have one car, and also have small children that need to ride in it.

    And I'll be honest, the 911 must be some hidden secret considering I can count on 1 hand how many times I've seen anyone, even a child, in the back seat of a 911.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    My daughter enjoys riding in the back of the 911 very much, and while we have a proper family car, she prefers the 911 when posible (sometimes you just can't take the 911 when you need a larger car). You'll get when you have a kid.

    And even when there is no one behind, those back seats are so practical, barely ever I need to bother with the trunk, just reach behind the seats and the cabin is so roomy.

    The fact that the 991 is a high performing car doesn't mean you have to put that high performance when you have your kids in the back yes , there are plenty of other opportunities in which its more proper to do so don't you think? don't understand that reasoning, or do you put the high performance of an exotic to use all the time? through a city streets for example?

    There isn't a more complete and versatile package in the market, that's why the 911 is over 50 yrs old and going stronger than ever. An exotic is not a substitute, its a different option, so price is irrelevant to either one. Since I know you can relate to Android, it's like saying that if you pay 1000$ for a non-iPhone Android smartphone, you are doing it wrong... 
    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Carlos from Spain:
    pride355:
    KresoF1:
    sfo:

    in the UK, the GTS model is about £9k more than Carrera S .. seems a lot for more power, some alcantara, different bumpers, PSE and CL wheels.

    I disagree. 

    RWD Carrera GTS model is actually a bargain. It has unique wide body, power kit, unique wheels, black accents that you can not get for normal Carrera models etc. It is with same options even cheaper then Carrera S. 

    I agree with you Kreso. I really like the new GTS as I was in love with 997.2 GTS and 991.1 GTS.

    Best 911 variant along with GT3, IMO.

    x2, While it's true I wouldn't trade the 991.2GTS for the 991.2GTS because I would loose the sound and character of the atmospheric engine, if I had to buy a new 911, it would be the 991.2GTS (besides the GT3). It looks fantastic and with surprising performance for such a versatile and usable car, and a sportier edge that the regular Carreras miss for my taste.

    x3.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    The big news is the black targa hoop.  

     what is the torque in ft lbs and the mpg?  Just lazy to google. These things should be in the press release. 

    In four years it will be a nice used car for $50k. The 991.1 na GTS will be $75k. 

    While I love my nearly silent 997 Turbo and it's massive power I agree with Nick that his Targa needs to sound right.  Compounding that must be the fact that the GT3 sounded friggin awesome by comparison.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    405 ft pounds Torque - 10% more than Carrera S (and only 30 ft pounds less than my 2.0L Evo blush)


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    noone1:

    Who cares whether the exotic is new or used? Dollars and what you get for your dollars are all that matter. If you can only swing 150K, the smart money buys used anyway. Especially if you're bare boning the spec and getting a normal color.

    If the R8 isn't an exotic, neither is a Huracan. You can find used R8 V10+ for 150K. 20K more and you get a 570S that isn't going to tank the second you drive it off the lot like a new .2 GTS will. New GTS is turbo, so might as well just get a used 991.1 Turbo S or a used GT3 that will hold value.

    The used R8 V10 Plus for 150k and under are not really recommended, mostly 24h Experience cars with low mileage (under 2k km) but although registered in 2016, these cars are first production cars from 2015 and many potential customers don't have a clue about this because Audi dealers are not required to tell people the build date, just the MY and registration date. Smiley Audi has greatly improved the R8 after the first couple of months of production, I can only recommend getting cars built after March 2016 (mine is an April 2016 build). Of course if someone doesn't care about the 2016 improvements, the 2015 cars can be a cheap entrance into the supercar world. The often carry a 5-year warranty. In the US, things look different: Try to find cheap used 2nd gen R8 V10 Plus. You'd be surprised. 

    Of course the R8 and the Huracan are considered exotics, especially in Europe but I can see how other countries/regions may have their own categorizations. 



    If money doesn't matter, sure, go ahead an buy a new GTS if you specifically want that car for some reason. If money doesn't matter though, then why not just scrounge up another 10-20K and get a way better car?

    Believe it or not but money matters, especially to Porsche customers. Some deals fall through because of 130 EUR registration cost, no kidding. Smiley



    GTS is only good for diehard Porsche buyers who want a GTS. If you can afford a 150K 911, you can afford an R8, 540C, 570S, 580-2, and a bunch of other better things. When you actually factor in cost of ownership, the GTS isn't going to be much cheaper. WIll be worth at least 20K less after one year.

    Wrong. Like I said before, people often want a 911 and prepare their whole life for getting one. It is an icon in Germany. Cost is very important to these people and also 911 lease offers are often better than McLaren or Lamborghini lease offers because the 911 keeps it's value and dealers can offer better mileage lease deals with higher residual values.



    Will the GTS be great on the track? Maybe, but unless you're a professional, you can just as easily learn to drive faster in something. If you can't put down professional lap times to begin with, then there is little point in worrying about the pinnacle of performance you're incapable of reaching. Many other cars mentioned will have more than enough performance for you to improve with.

    I agree, track performance isn't that important to many customers but what is important is reliability, resale value, ease of maintenance and repairs and so on. It is basically impossible to beat Porsche here, at least in Europe. Audi R8? What many don't know is the fact that outside Germany, there are only a few R8 specialists who can actually maintain and repair this car. During my stay in Italy, I was curious about a dealership which would be able to help in case of an emergency with the car and I ended up finding one in whole North Italy...in Milano. Bummer.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    RC, I agree with you.

    In case someone doesn´t care about attention and don´t need the rear seats because his kids are over 12 or so, he could get an Audi R8 V10 plus for less money then a GTS.

     Audi R8 Coupé V10 plus 5.2 FSI quattro 449(610) kW(PS) S tronic

    Lackierung: Mythosschwarz Metallic

    Ausstattung: schwarz-schwarz-condorgrau /schwarz-schwarz/schwarz/schwarz

    Audi Code: AX23Q1YB

    Jährliche Fahrleistung: 10.000 km, Vertragsdauer: 42 Monate, ohne Gebrauchtwagenabrechnung.

    .berführungspauschale und Zulassungskosten berechnet der ausliefernde Betrieb separat.

     monatliche Leasing-Rate ohne Dienstleistungen EUR 1 . 8 0 8 , 0 0

    Audi ServiceKomfort EUR 0 , 0 0

    Audi Inspektion und Verschleiß (WTG 3519) EUR 1 3 9 , 9 0

    _______________

     monatliche Leasing-Rate inkl. Dienstleistungen EUR 1 . 9 4 7 , 9 0

    Alle Werte zzgl. der jeweiligen Umsatzsteuer, die jeweils gültige Umsatzsteuer wird gesondert berechnet.

    (MBV-Stand: 14.10.2016, FD-Stand: 13.10.2016)

    Alternativ können wir Ihnen weitere unverbindliche Leasing-Angebotsvarianten

    (in EUR ohne Dienstleistungen) anbieten:

    Fahrleistung/Laufzeit  36 42 48

    10.000 km/Jahr 1.890,00  1.808,00 1.709,00

     

    You can't get a GTS for that good leasing rate. To be honest GTS is pretty cool and I like it much but for the same money I would go for an Audi R8 in this case a car over 200.000 €!!. 

    You mention everytime the huge amount of Porsche dealers worldwide.  Yes, that is true but only one side of the story. In 2015/2016 New Year time my Panamera get broken in front of my hotel in Milano. In Milano you have two Porsche dealer and service center. Porsche Assistance couldn´t arrange for me an adequate car and they couldn´t arrange a service time slot before January 11th 2016, that was 13 days waiting. They sent me from Germany a Tiguan and delivered my car on 6 days later to Germany by ADAC. Lucky me the hotel had two Quattroporte for their guests so I could enjoy Milan also with car. 


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    It's almost perfect 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Just think about it, the new .2 GTS has 450HP, basically just as much as a 997.1 Turbo.

    Think of it as a 997.1 Turbo without the wing, which many people had wished for. Porsche granted that, like 10 years later. Hell, one an even order a GTS with manual, just like the 991.1 Turbo.

    When I was at the factory in June, I was doing a config for a Targa just for kicks, I had asked for black hoops, cause I saw a few downstairs. I was told a flat no by Exclusive and the GTS is why indecision


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Whoopsy:

    Just think about it, the new .2 GTS has 450HP, basically just as much as a 997.1 Turbo.

    Think of it as a 997.1 Turbo without the wing, which many people had wished for. Porsche granted that, like 10 years later. Hell, one an even order a GTS with manual, just like the 991.1 Turbo.

    And if you skip the AWD versions, you have something close to a 996 GT2, but safer and prettier Smiley


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Grant:
    Whoopsy:

    Just think about it, the new .2 GTS has 450HP, basically just as much as a 997.1 Turbo.

    Think of it as a 997.1 Turbo without the wing, which many people had wished for. Porsche granted that, like 10 years later. Hell, one an even order a GTS with manual, just like the 991.1 Turbo.

    And if you skip the AWD versions, you have something close to a 996 GT2, but safer and prettier Smiley

    +1 Smiley

    That was my thought too and I had to spec one yesterday. Me likey Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    And Porsche hit another home run with the GTS models!


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Not quite like my 520 ft lbs of torque or mezger engine. New my 997.1 Turbo was $126000.  I would bet my car is a bit  quicker as well.  I am eager to drive the GTS though and see how it is built. The leather interior in my 10 year old car looks like new 85k miles later. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    The good thing about that is that there is greater chances that the GTS may end up becoming a regular model of the 911 line up and not just a late version used to pick up sales towards the end of the life cycle of a generation or before a facelift. Each time they are introducing a GTS earlier in the cycle, and not at the very end. I think the GTS needs to be a regular model that is sold throughout the whole life cycle like the other Carrera versions.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Back to the future: the regular Carrera is now the equivalent of the 911T; the Carrera S is the equivalent of the 911E; and the GTS is the equivalent of the 911S; from 1969. 

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/1969-porsche-912-vs-911t-targa-911e-911s-archived-comparison-test

    Interestingly, the horsepower increments (about 32-33 HP between one version of the old 911 and the next) are not that different from what we get today (on average). Of course, looking at percent increments makes today's power jumps laughable (20% increase between 911E and 911S in 1969, v. less than 5% increase today in the GTS).

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    997.1 Turbo had 480hp. It was 996 Turbo S which had 450hp  broken heart


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    Enzo II:

    997.1 Turbo had 480hp. It was 996 Turbo S which had 450hp  broken heart

     

    My bad Smiley

    But you know, the transmission made the biggest difference. PDK over the old Mercedes 5-speed automatic. It will be night and day faster for the GTS.

    When I switched from 997.1 Turbo to 997.2 Turbo S, it's only 50HP difference on paper but boy, it felt like there were like 100HP+ difference. 


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    I configured for fun a fully loaded GTS Targa 4S and came to 230k CHF - crazy...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    I think that Porsche designed the web special very well, so the GTS will appeal to a lot of people. Being a "die hard" mid engine fan..., I would even argue that many potential 718 customers (like myself, but only if something happens to my 981) would upgrade to a 911 GTS only because of the terrible sound of the 718. Therefore, the new GTS is an attractive overall package - people will be pay, however, not all will go for a fully optioned car. I configured an ordinary "S GTS" with some sporty extras and ended up with double the price of my Cayman GTS - I know that I cannot compare them on performance etc. and I presumably get xx % fun for half the money, still, I am tempted...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    BjoernB:

    I configured for fun a fully loaded GTS Targa 4S and came to 230k CHF - crazy...

    I configured the new C4 GTS Cab with the same options I configured my 991.1 C4 GTS Cab model and ended up with around 5k EUR more, which includes the rear wheel steering though (which my car doesn't have). Not that bad but of course a lot of money for a 911 Carrera model. Almost 170k EUR, ouch.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    d997h:

    I think that Porsche designed the web special very well, so the GTS will appeal to a lot of people. Being a "die hard" mid engine fan..., I would even argue that many potential 718 customers (like myself, but only if something happens to my 981) would upgrade to a 911 GTS only because of the terrible sound of the 718. Therefore, the new GTS is an attractive overall package - people will be pay, however, not all will go for a fully optioned car. I configured an ordinary "S GTS" with some sporty extras and ended up with double the price of my Cayman GTS - I know that I cannot compare them on performance etc. and I presumably get xx % fun for half the money, still, I am tempted...

     

    Sounds of a turbo 911 isn't anything worth mentioning either though... generic turbo sound.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models

    You are wrong: The 991.2 Carrera with PSE sounds pretty good (I said this over and over again but opinions seem to vary, I don't have a clue why because sound is sound, it is the same), the 991 Turbo/Turbo S are a different story though (VTG chargers apparently are counter-productive when it comes to proper exhaust sound because of various emissions setups/adjustments).

    Regarding a "base" Carrera GTS with the necessary options: I calculated around 139k EUR (manual with PDCC, 20 mm chassis and rear wheel steering, also GTS interior package). With PDK, the car would be around 143k EUR.

    A similar optioned 991.2 GT3 would be probably around 20k EUR more, so...not sure if the base Carrera GTS is really such a good deal. angry


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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