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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:

    Fair enough... But I don't think that "rather slow" is an accurate description. ;) it has a lot less emotion than a Lambroghini of course, but isn't that what a 911 Turbo should be? It's always been that way. No comparison.... Apples and oranges IMO.

    However, the original Porsche Turbo was the raw, emotional beast that demanded respect.  Porsche has changed the essential DNA of the 911 and the variants to focus more on everyday usefulness and away from the visceral appeal of the past cars.  They've become too sterile, while more competent.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Last time I checked, the 997 Turbo S did 0-300 kph in 34-36 seconds, depending on the test you're looking at. The 991 Turbo S is between 3 and 5 seconds faster, which is quite impressive taking in consideration the mild 30 hp power increase. 

    Take the Gallardo form the SA comparison test for example: This isn't your bread and butter Gallardo but a special track optimized version at a 35k EUR higher base price than the Turbo S. The Gallardo also weights 120 kg less than the Porsche and even has 10 hp more on paper. Still..the Porsche fits four persons or two persons and a serious amount of luggage and it basically achieves the same track performance as the Gallardo, despite the fact that the Gallardo rides on these insanely grippy Trofeo tires which cost an additional 5k EUR or so.

    I get it: Some people want to show off, others...like me...just want to be fast in a car without taking a sweat.

    Talking about a Turbo S vs. GT3 comparison: Two different pair of shoes in my opinion. I would love to own both. Also don't forget that the GT3 is 60k EUR less in Germany.

    On the track, the 991 Turbo S seems to be at the level of a Carrera GT or the Aventador. I am happy. 

    Speaking of raw (old Turbo) and sterile (new Turbo): My son would disagree. He basically grew up with fast cars but whenever I fully accelerate, even in tight curves, he grabs his seat or,the door handle because he is...afraid. He says the he never felt that way and my wife started to scream after the first ten minutes in the car. Yes, indeed, very sterile. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    CGX car nut:
    SuzyF:

    Fair enough... But I don't think that "rather slow" is an accurate description. ;) it has a lot less emotion than a Lambroghini of course, but isn't that what a 911 Turbo should be? It's always been that way. No comparison.... Apples and oranges IMO.

    However, the original Porsche Turbo was the raw, emotional beast that demanded respect.  Porsche has changed the essential DNA of the 911 and the variants to focus more on everyday usefulness and away from the visceral appeal of the past cars.  They've become too sterile, while more competent.

    You are if course absolutely right, but those times are far behind now. Now there are GT3s and GT2s for that purpose. The market has changed and Porsche adapted to the market. If they were still selling cars like they were in those days, the company would have gone bankrupt a while ago. 

    On the other hand, I do understand that for some people, this means that the appeal of the original concept has gone, but just like the GT3 with its PDK, for every person that doesn't want the car because of that PDK, there are three people waiting in line to get the car. Same applies to the Turbo. It changed into a very capable sportscar with GT capabillities. 

    Porsche is a businiss that wants to sell cars and make profit. That requires them to adapt to the market. 


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I recommend driving the 991 Turbo S at the limit: I'm in Italy right now and played with a couple of Lamborghinis and Porsches on the road today, so easy, so much fun and they didn't stand a chance. One driver was so pissed that he passed me at I think 120 kph in a 60 kph zone on a straight...after he fell back heavily after each curve. His car: A GT2 RS. indecision I guess his tires weren't too happy with the 14 deg outside temperature.  indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    I recommend driving the 991 Turbo S at the limit: I'm in Italy right now and played with a couple of Lamborghinis and Porsches on the road today, so easy, so much fun and they didn't stand a chance. One driver was so pissed that he passed me at I think 120 kph in a 60 kph zone on a straight...after he fell back heavily after each curve. His car: A GT2 RS. indecision I guess his tires weren't too happy with the 14 deg outside temperature.  indecision

    how could be gt2rs be slower?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    moo:

    after i have read all those tests i went to see my friendly porsche dealer again today and asked for another test drive with the turbo S (after all, i have a GT3 RS on order with him). somehow i have to revoke my impression after the first test drive. the turbo S is a VERY accomplished car. it is super-super fast (we shall see in a few weeks whether i have lost my license today) and actually feels faster than my F458. the interior is panamera level, i don't know whether this is good or bad (for me so-so). spaces are tight, because of the center console and the useless rear seats (i'd special order without them). the engine sound is ...ok...nothing special but much better than what BMW engineered in the M5. throttle response is very good for a turbo engine (you know what i mean by that). all in all, after the second test drive, the turbo S seems very very good, but it is just not ....special. after the test drive, when i got back into my slow man's F458, it took a while to re-adjust to the low-torque engine (i mean it) but when the sound came on at 4K revs...oh boy....very different experience. i love N/A.

    i did this test drive mainly because my wife said '....why don't we get a porsche turbo.....' 

    it is a ballistic missile, WOOOWW as far as speed is concerned.

    but when i parked it next to my (slow) F458 the porsche center manager said: the turbo S is a wonderful car but unfortunately 911-shape-restricted. he is so right. 

    i hope the 991 GT3 RS goes beyond that styling-wise.

    on the cruiser issue: yesterday i drove from zuerich to vienna in the F458. i have asked myself: would i have preferred to do the journey in the 991 turbo S? the answer is no,since it gives a more claustrophobic interior feeling and its speed advantage could not have been exploited. maybe i would have had less teenagers at gas stations wave at me.

    p

     

    Totally agree on that! Smiley So emotional! But it will be very good with the 991 GT3 RS too I guess. Smiley


    --

    - HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:
    RC:

    I recommend driving the 991 Turbo S at the limit: I'm in Italy right now and played with a couple of Lamborghinis and Porsches on the road today, so easy, so much fun and they didn't stand a chance. One driver was so pissed that he passed me at I think 120 kph in a 60 kph zone on a straight...after he fell back heavily after each curve. His car: A GT2 RS. indecision I guess his tires weren't too happy with the 14 deg outside temperature.  indecision

    how could be gt2rs be slower?

    MPSC tires on cold and wet surfaces = skating in slow motion depending on how much throttle you give it Smiley

    That's why there's a solution called MPSS for those who do not care about N-Rated tires by Porsche.

    I bet that RC was listening to this while he ran into 2RS Smiley

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Last time I checked, the 997 Turbo S did 0-300 kph in 34-36 seconds, depending on the test you're looking at. The 991 Turbo S is between 3 and 5 seconds faster, which is quite impressive taking in consideration the mild 30 hp power increase. 

    Take the Gallardo form the SA comparison test for example: This isn't your bread and butter Gallardo but a special track optimized version at a 35k EUR higher base price than the Turbo S. The Gallardo also weights 120 kg less than the Porsche and even has 10 hp more on paper. Still..the Porsche fits four persons or two persons and a serious amount of luggage and it basically achieves the same track performance as the Gallardo, despite the fact that the Gallardo rides on these insanely grippy Trofeo tires which cost an additional 5k EUR or so.

    I get it: Some people want to show off, others...like me...just want to be fast in a car without taking a sweat.

    Talking about a Turbo S vs. GT3 comparison: Two different pair of shoes in my opinion. I would love to own both. Also don't forget that the GT3 is 60k EUR less in Germany.

    On the track, the 991 Turbo S seems to be at the level of a Carrera GT or the Aventador. I am happy. 

    Speaking of raw (old Turbo) and sterile (new Turbo): My son would disagree. He basically grew up with fast cars but whenever I fully accelerate, even in tight curves, he grabs his seat or,the door handle because he is...afraid. He says the he never felt that way and my wife started to scream after the first ten minutes in the car. Yes, indeed, very sterile. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    RC, you always talk about speed and there you are right. i personally have never driven a faster car  (maybe the MP4-12C is close) but the turbo S is still rather sterile. this is no contradiction. it has nothing tactile or visceral about it. to me it feels like a mini-panamera turbo S. it is a very fast car but not a sports car and certainly not a super car.

    porsche has gone with the 911 in the direction of GT type cruising which to me has lost a lot of appeal. the 991 is in all technical aspects the best 911 ever. but it has lost desirability, at least for me. this is why i want to give the RS a try - if they price it somewhat reasonably.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Seriously? The 991 Turbo S feels like a Panamera to you? I owned a Panamera Turbo S for over a year and the 991 Turbo S is completely different, not even a bit similar. I rather guess, you do not WANT to like the 991 Turbo S because on German Porsche forums, even diehard 991 haters seem to love the new Turbo and orders at dealers have picked up strongly after the previous harsh criticism (too expensive, too much of a GT). What the heck, even Chris Harris loves the new Turbo S.

    Speaking of my GT2 RS encounter yesterday: He had no chance, whoever knows the roads around Lake Garda knows why. Traction is essential and this guy was too eager to pass me and his rear came in almost each curve, up to a point where he almost hit a van driving on the other side. I didn't even drive at the limit and PSM was on (Sport Plus mode though) because my son is with me. The new AWD in the Turbo S is just amazing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    excuse my ignorance but what is a cabrera?

    thanks


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Next gen Lamborgini Gallardo, name isn't final yet according to rumors.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    thanks

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Seriously? The 991 Turbo S feels like a Panamera to you? I owned a Panamera Turbo S for over a year and the 991 Turbo S is completely different, not even a bit similar. I rather guess, you do not WANT to like the 991 Turbo S because on German Porsche forums, even diehard 991 haters seem to love the new Turbo and orders at dealers have picked up strongly after the previous harsh criticism (too expensive, too much of a GT). What the heck, even Chris Harris loves the new Turbo S.

    Speaking of my GT2 RS encounter yesterday: He had no chance, whoever knows the roads around Lake Garda knows why. Traction is essential and this guy was too eager to pass me and his rear came in almost each curve, up to a point where he almost hit a van driving on the other side. I didn't even drive at the limit and PSM was on (Sport Plus mode though) because my son is with me. The new AWD in the Turbo S is just amazing.

    RC, yes, i said it feels like a mini-pana to me. and again, you talk about speed. again you are right in this respect.

    btw, i'd prefer people look at me in my ferrari all the time instead of being challenged to mountain road races by GT2 RS idiots.

    p


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    moo:

    btw, i'd prefer people look at me in my ferrari all the time instead of.........

    p

    Poseur Par Excellence Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:
    moo:

    btw, i'd prefer people look at me in my ferrari all the time instead of.........

    p

    Poseur Par Excellence Smiley

    instead of risking lives, yes. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    moo:
     

    btw, i'd prefer people look at me in my ferrari all the time instead of being challenged to mountain road races by GT2 RS idiots.

    p

    I'm speechless... Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    moo:
    reginos:
    moo:

    btw, i'd prefer people look at me in my ferrari all the time instead of.........

    p

    Poseur Par Excellence Smiley

    instead of risking lives, yes. 

    If so, "I'd prefer to drive my Ferrari with caution and responsibly  instead of......" would have been a more fitting statement.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    sure. thanks.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pretty stupid racing in Public Road...  Sorry no understanding for that. 

    The gt2 rs pulls mutch more in every gear than Turbo s. Despit off having just an ordinary 6 Speed manuel 0-300 in 28 secs vs 31 for the turbo s. Wish the the make a gt2 with 600hp+ with pdk...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Dario:

    Pretty stupid racing in Public Road...  Sorry no understanding for that. 

    Totally agree!!!

    i lost my father and my brother because some idiots were racing on the street! Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    moo:

    sure. thanks.

    Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    and btw, i never said that the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary. and if pressure at home keeps building up against the GT3 RS i even might have to get a turbo S instead ----((((((

    p


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    moo:

    and btw, i never said that the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary. and if pressure at home keeps building up against the GT3 RS i even might have to get a turbo S instead ----((((((

    p

    Noooo! Peter! We would have nothing to argue about here! That would be boring.... Smiley

    Smiley Cheers!


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Data from latest Sport Auto comparison against Gallardo LP570-4 Squadra Corse
     
    991 Turbo S
     
    Tires Dunlop Sport Maxx Race
    Hockenheim Short: 1.08,7
    0-100 3,0
    0-160 6,5
    0-200 10,0
    0-250 16,7
    0-300 31,0
    1595kg weight
     
    Gallardo LP570-4
     
    Tires Pirelli Trofeo
    Hockenheim Short: 1.08,2
    0-100 3,4
    0-160 7,0
    0-200 10,5
    0-250 17,2
    0-300 36,0
    1477kg weight
     
    and Supertest Results from 991 GT3:
     
    991 GT3
     
    Tires Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
    Hockenheim Short: 1.09,6
    Nürburgring: 7.32
    0-100 3,6
    0-160 7,7
    0-200 11,9
    1448kg weight

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Moo, I understand and respect your view of "emotion" and "sterility" in cars.  The 458 has a different sound, design and road feel from a Porsche Turbo S--which I guess you could equate with "emotion" or "sportiness".  

    But you may find that your view of "emotion" may change over time.  When I was younger, I loved the racing exhaust sound and looks, and drove several highly tuned cars on the street and in professional racing events.  I have since tired of that "emotion", and prefer very powerful, sophisticated and quieter cars now.  And I can honestly say that there is great "emotion" when I feel an immensely powerful silent whoosh from a Porsche Turbo.  I have owned a Cayenne Turbo S (550hp) for four years and every time I "get on it" I have an "emotion" just as powerful as I had years ago.  I think this current emotion is one of pride, excitement, danger, thrill and confidence that I am in an extremely modern and finely engineered machine--in some ways superior to non-turbocharged machines.  

    I really do not intend to be argumentative here, but I think that "emotion" is a broader term than racy, sporty, or highly designed.  

    And finally, in terms of automotive future performance, electric or other "hybrid" alternatives are extremely exciting and "emotional".  Consider the P1, 918 or LaFerrari, some pretty darned emotional products....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    Moo, I understand and respect your view of "emotion" and "sterility" in cars.  The 458 has a different sound, design and road feel from a Porsche Turbo S--which I guess you could equate with "emotion" or "sportiness".  

    But you may find that your view of "emotion" may change over time.  When I was younger, I loved the racing exhaust sound and looks, and drove several highly tuned cars on the street and in professional racing events.  I have since tired of that "emotion", and prefer very powerful, sophisticated and quieter cars now.  And I can honestly say that there is great "emotion" when I feel an immensely powerful silent whoosh from a Porsche Turbo.  I have owned a Cayenne Turbo S (550hp) for four years and every time I "get on it" I have an "emotion" just as powerful as I had years ago.  I think this current emotion is one of pride, excitement, danger, thrill and confidence that I am in an extremely modern and finely engineered machine--in some ways superior to non-turbocharged machines.  

    I really do not intend to be argumentative here, but I think that "emotion" is a broader term than racy, sporty, or highly designed.  

    And finally, in terms of automotive future performance, electric or other "hybrid" alternatives are extremely exciting and "emotional".  Consider the P1, 918 or LaFerrari, some pretty darned emotional products....

    i agree with you basically. but the other issue is that i like cars to stay on the light side and the turbo S should go on a diet. 

    i had my 'reasonable' period with the BMW M5. i tried to get me to like it but i hated the lack of sound, the weight, the turbo engine....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Dario:

    Pretty stupid racing in Public Road...  Sorry no understanding for that. 

    The gt2 rs pulls mutch more in every gear than Turbo s. Despit off having just an ordinary 6 Speed manuel 0-300 in 28 secs vs 31 for the turbo s. Wish the the make a gt2 with 600hp+ with pdk...

    Hmm, I get the feeling that this rather has to do with the fact that you ALWAYS contradict what I am saying than anything else. Smiley Did a Panamera Turbo S outrun you in the M5 or why that anger? Smiley I get it, you tune your M5 for showing off only. Smiley

    I do not street race. This guy in the GT2 RS drove with a distance of about one meter to my tail at 80 kph or so and I just wanted to teach him some manners (which apparently I did because he passed me in a 60 kph zone at I think double the speed after he tried to pass me for at least 10 km and he lost 100 m or more after each curve Smiley). I was driving within the legal speed limit, my average speed was 50 kph (according to the onboard computer) and the fuel consumption was 24.9 l / 100 km. Smiley

    Speaking of putting someone in danger: I'm a former rallye pro, tight curves and mountain roads are my specialty. Do you really think my wife would be that crazy to let me have a fun weekend with my son if she thinks I couldn't handle myself or would drive at the limit with a kid? My tires didn't even squeak today and you don't want to know what a blast we had. The road from Idro to Gargnano was pure fun and I think I spooked off some motorcycle riders, they stopped after me at the Valvestrino dam and told me that they had the feeling a jet passed them earlier (me Smiley). They took photos, so I wouldn't be surprised to find myself on the internet somewhere... Smiley

    Took lots of photos and I will post some tomorrow or latest Monday. Wonderful day today, up to 21 degrees, sun and we even had the chance to watch a historical "race" (Circuito del Garda or something like that) with some very nice sounding and looking classic cars, incl. some Porsche 911, 356 and many Lancias and Alfas (Suzy would have loved it...).

    We should do this drive in a group next summer, so much fun. Also, there was barely traffic, mostly motorcycles and some crazy Italians who always had to accelerate when I showed up in their rear mirror...not that the acceleration really helped. Smiley

    Driving a sports car for showing off is everything I am against, I prefer to enjoy driving the car, not "showing it off to...complete strangers". What for? Smiley

    So please spare me any good advice, you just outed yourselves as posers. There is nothing worse in the sports car community. Smiley

    Btw: I offer a drive as a passenger next summer. If anyone calls this car boring or sterile after that, he must be nuts. I was driving today and I started to feel car sick, I had to give my son a travel sickness pill...too many curves today. He still told my wife this evening that it was the most fun day in his life. What does a father need to hear more? Smiley

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC- How do the gearshifts compare between Sport Manual mode and Sport Plus Manual mode on the TTS?

    Thanks

    P.S. I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your wonderful car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    FlatSix911:

    RC- How do the gearshifts compare between Sport Manual mode and Sport Plus Manual mode on the TTS?

    Thanks

    P.S. I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your wonderful car.

    I enjoy it more than I thought. So far, everything is perfect.

    Sport Plus can be driven in manual mode only on public streets, the auto mode is useless (way too aggressive) on public roads. I used Sport Plus only for a short while because the slides with the rear were a bit too much for the tiny roads and I really had to keep in mind that I have a kid with me plus the public road. I drove in Sport mode most of the time with PSM on. No traction issues at all and I have to admit I drove in auto mode most of the time because of the very narrow streets (and the mountain on one side, the valley deep down on the other...) and the fact that Indidn't have much of an error margin there. The shifting in Sport Plus mode is a bit harsher but speed-wise similar to Sport mode. 

    I also drove with the Active Aerodynamics deployed in Performance mode because I had the feeling that even at speeds around 100 kph, there was a bit more downforce. Temperature in the mountains was usually colder, 13-15 degrees C today but the Pirelli PZero tires were amazing, so was the brake. No slipping, no understeer at all and my tire pressure was even higher than usual (2.6 front, 3.2 rear, I had some luggage with me). The car was running like on rails, no matter if the street was dry or slightly wet. Just an amazing setup. 

    I forgot to mention one thing though: Some motorcycle riders shouldn't be out there. Either they drove the curve in a way that I had to brake or move very far to the right to avoid them hitting my mirror or rear fender when coming on the other side of the road or they passed me in curves(!) where overtaking was restricted and they couldn't see a thing, absolutely insane. Afterwards of course, the same guys were "blocking" me from passing them (not intentionally) because I could have been faster in curves but passing them was too risky. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    Moo, I understand and respect your view of "emotion" and "sterility" in cars.  The 458 has a different sound, design and road feel from a Porsche Turbo S--which I guess you could equate with "emotion" or "sportiness".  

    But you may find that your view of "emotion" may change over time.  When I was younger, I loved the racing exhaust sound and looks, and drove several highly tuned cars on the street and in professional racing events.  I have since tired of that "emotion", and prefer very powerful, sophisticated and quieter cars now.  And I can honestly say that there is great "emotion" when I feel an immensely powerful silent whoosh from a Porsche Turbo.  I have owned a Cayenne Turbo S (550hp) for four years and every time I "get on it" I have an "emotion" just as powerful as I had years ago.  I think this current emotion is one of pride, excitement, danger, thrill and confidence that I am in an extremely modern and finely engineered machine--in some ways superior to non-turbocharged machines.  

    I really do not intend to be argumentative here, but I think that "emotion" is a broader term than racy, sporty, or highly designed.  

    And finally, in terms of automotive future performance, electric or other "hybrid" alternatives are extremely exciting and "emotional".  Consider the P1, 918 or LaFerrari, some pretty darned emotional products....

    Sydney, there is nothing wrong  with the 991 Turbo S in the emotions department but of course a Ferrari 458 is much more enjoyable at low speeds because it makes a lot of noise and it attracts a lot of attention. This is not meant as an insult, on the contrary. For someone who enjoys a car just for moving it, the 458 is perfect. Smiley

    Yes, a 991 Turbo S is quiet and comfortable when driven slow but make no mistake, there is a reason why I made the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde comparison. The comments Chris Harris made about this car should give a hint. 

    I drove now 2000 km in the Turbo S and I only wish it would have a better sound system for speed limited Italy and Austria. The BOSE sucks more than I thought and sounds much worse than BOSE in my Cayenne.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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