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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    EnglishManInNY:

    The cyberquad is interesting. That I would buy. For my backyard indecision

    Apparently it is actually a Yamaha Raptor 700R SE...

    Link: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31175/it-looks-like-the-tesla-cyberquad-atv-is-actually-a-yamaha-raptor-underneath


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The above one is from 1979...

    IMG-20191124-WA0008.jpg


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I seriously think there is something wrong with Tesla's marketing department. They keep picking the wrong target segment for their products. 

    Toyota tried so hard for so long with their Tundra to penetrate the full size pickup truck segment, yet they barely making a blimp on the radar. What makes Tesla think they could just walk in and take it? 

    Proper target segment would have been the mid-sized truck segment, primary aiming for the Ridgeline and Tacoma. Most of those are city pickups and a Cybertruck would have been the perfect weapon to take over that segment. I can see the appeal of this truck over the 2 for city living millennials. They got much more utility over the Model 3 or S or X. And if they kept the pricing then it will only be slightly more expensive, but not a stretch for buyers. 

    I see this truck has quite a bit of potential to literally kill the imports, if only they sized it right. Shrink the car by say 10-20%, keep most of the spec and I think they would have a winner. 

    This is like repeating the Model S fiasco. That would have been a nice product to compete in the mid size segment against E class and 5 series and such, but for some unknown reason they wanted to go against S class and 7s with a very sub par interior for the class.

    At least they got the Model 3 segment right, the entry level premium car, taking over sales from Acura, Lexus, Infinite. And some luxury car buyers from Mercedes C-class and BMW 3s go down half a class to buy it.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    I seriously think there is something wrong with Tesla's marketing department. They keep picking the wrong target segment for their products. 

    Toyota tried so hard for so long with their Tundra to penetrate the full size pickup truck segment, yet they barely making a blimp on the radar. What makes Tesla think they could just walk in and take it? 

    Proper target segment would have been the mid-sized truck segment, primary aiming for the Ridgeline and Tacoma. Most of those are city pickups and a Cybertruck would have been the perfect weapon to take over that segment. I can see the appeal of this truck over the 2 for city living millennials. They got much more utility over the Model 3 or S or X. And if they kept the pricing then it will only be slightly more expensive, but not a stretch for buyers. 

    I see this truck has quite a bit of potential to literally kill the imports, if only they sized it right. Shrink the car by say 10-20%, keep most of the spec and I think they would have a winner. 

    This is like repeating the Model S fiasco. That would have been a nice product to compete in the mid size segment against E class and 5 series and such, but for some unknown reason they wanted to go against S class and 7s with a very sub par interior for the class.

    At least they got the Model 3 segment right, the entry level premium car, taking over sales from Acura, Lexus, Infinite. And some luxury car buyers from Mercedes C-class and BMW 3s go down half a class to buy it.

    What makes you think that Tesla actually has a marketing department beyond the whims of Musk?

    An even more powerful example of illustrating the pitfalls of the U.S. full-sized pickup truck than Toyota is Nissan.  Nissan, much like Toyota, had a loyal customer base for its compact pickups and its mid-sized SUVs, therefore, it seemed natural to migrate to the higher margin full-sized truck sector.  Its first effort received lukewarm praise and Nissan's second effort literally aped the Ford F-150.  Nissan's second generation truck is performing even worse than before.  

    What TSLA needs is a portfolio of crossovers from large to mid-size to compact.  This is the sweet spot of a growing market.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:

    I don’t understand why someone’s positive impressions of anything would lead to insults. It’s okay if you like or don’t like the truck or anything for that matter but it is simply not cool to constantly attack people who don’t agree with your point of view. Just tell us how you feel about the truck. The telling us how you feel animosity toward those who like something you don’t care for just let’s us know what you are all about.  You otherwise know nothing about about these people so it mostly reflects poorly on you. I don’t call anyone names who does not agree with me. I let them enjoy their opinion (unless they insult me but you all know that). 
    It is the unjustified attack on people for their preferences (they are not hurting anyone) which leads to group think and far worse. Let’s try and find nice things to say about people and keep criticizing just the car or design, specs whatever. Everything else is a weak attempt at logic / persuasion / polarization which never adds up to success. It does spread the confirmation bias and emboldens others to escalate the problem. Who wants that?  No wonder discussions here go south.  
    maybe I should be a moderator?   Okay, you all can stop laughing. I’m done joking. 

    In your predictable knee jerk reaction with anything Tesla related you missed the mark, nothing to do with the truck this time, and more to do with another unbearable bird brain youtuber influencer with zero substance on why the young blond is buying a 6m bullet proof pickup truck as she interacts with her sidekick doggie for the camera...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I think you missed my point. It was not about the car but rather a personal attack because you don’t like their style or point of view. But you reinforced it beautifully by clarifying that it was not about the truck but rather a purely personal attack.  Am I the only one who sees this ?  You actually articulated it and still did not understand that it is not informative or kind. Just empty criticism which looks beneath you. I don’t mean to criticize you in the process, I’m just pointing out what I see in your posts. Maybe knee jerk is correct. I am consistently against personal attacks.  We can all do much better. What would Jesus do?  Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:

    I don’t understand why someone’s positive impressions of anything would lead to insults. It’s okay if you like or don’t like the truck or anything for that matter but it is simply not cool to constantly attack people who don’t agree with your point of view. Just tell us how you feel about the truck. The telling us how you feel animosity toward those who like something you don’t care for just let’s us know what you are all about.  You otherwise know nothing about about these people so it mostly reflects poorly on you. I don’t call anyone names who does not agree with me. I let them enjoy their opinion (unless they insult me but you all know that). 
    It is the unjustified attack on people for their preferences (they are not hurting anyone) which leads to group think and far worse. Let’s try and find nice things to say about people and keep criticizing just the car or design, specs whatever. Everything else is a weak attempt at logic / persuasion / polarization which never adds up to success. It does spread the confirmation bias and emboldens others to escalate the problem. Who wants that?  No wonder discussions here go south.  
    maybe I should be a moderator?   Okay, you all can stop laughing. I’m done joking. 

    In your predictable knee jerk reaction with anything Tesla related you missed the mark, nothing to do with the truck this time, and more to do with another unbearable bird brain youtuber influencer with zero substance on why the young blond is buying a 6m bullet proof pickup truck as she interacts with her sidekick doggie for the camera...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I think you missed my point. It was not about the car but rather a personal attack because you don’t like their style or point of view. But you reinforced it beautifully by clarifying that it was not about the truck but rather a purely personal attack.  Am I the only one who sees this ?  You actually articulated it and still did not understand that it is not informative or kind. Just empty criticism which looks beneath you. I don’t mean to criticize you in the process, I’m just pointing out what I see in your posts. Maybe knee jerk is correct. I am consistently against personal attacks.  We can all do much better. What would Jesus do?  Smiley

    Maybe the third time is the charm... it is not about the car nor not agreeing with her opinion, it is about these empty headed youtubers with zero substance or culture being the "influencers" of today, very enriching, wether it is this blond with her dog talking about a pickup truck she has no clue about or the Kardashians, yet those heroes that are actually making humanity advance are ignored. You bet it is an attack. Just like I will attack actors and rock/rap stars influencing the public on politics, not much different.

    Don't know about Jesus, but we can ask Musk though Twitter, the next best thing according to some.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Well my brother put an “order” in. So maybe I’ll give you feedback in two years indecision
     

    207727C5-2F64-4A99-8FAF-C33A49B9BC0C.jpeg


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Enmanuel:

    Well my brother put an “order” in. So maybe I’ll give you feedback in two years indecision
     

    Maybe you should sever all ties with him! smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    ha:
    Enmanuel:

    Well my brother put an “order” in. So maybe I’ll give you feedback in two years indecision
     

    Maybe you should sever all ties with him! smiley

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    my brother did as well :)


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:

    Maybe in very rural areas some people might think it is cool. But in most parts of the world this car will be considered a bad joke. Sorry to say... Juts read the car (if ever) will be available in about 2-3 years time.

    I actually think that this Tesla Pickup will find buyers...mainly in the US but I think it "works". Main market for pickups is the US anyway, so why should Tesla care about Europe (which certainly isn't a typical market for pickups).

    My son, he was always dreaming of a Dodge RAM pickup (no kidding and he loves sports cars too), actually kind of likes the this Tesla pickup. He says it looks as if it is from a SciFi movie or Mad Max, so kind of cool. I don't know...but I really think that Tesla will sell a bunch of these pickups in the US, especially if the price and quality are OK.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:

    I don’t understand why someone’s positive impressions of anything would lead to insults. It’s okay if you like or don’t like the truck or anything for that matter but it is simply not cool to constantly attack people who don’t agree with your point of view. Just tell us how you feel about the truck. The telling us how you feel animosity toward those who like something you don’t care for just let’s us know what you are all about.  You otherwise know nothing about about these people so it mostly reflects poorly on you. I don’t call anyone names who does not agree with me. I let them enjoy their opinion (unless they insult me but you all know that). 
    It is the unjustified attack on people for their preferences (they are not hurting anyone) which leads to group think and far worse. Let’s try and find nice things to say about people and keep criticizing just the car or design, specs whatever. Everything else is a weak attempt at logic / persuasion / polarization which never adds up to success. It does spread the confirmation bias and emboldens others to escalate the problem. Who wants that?  No wonder discussions here go south.  
    maybe I should be a moderator?   Okay, you all can stop laughing. I’m done joking. 

    In your predictable knee jerk reaction with anything Tesla related you missed the mark, nothing to do with the truck this time, and more to do with another unbearable bird brain youtuber influencer with zero substance on why the young blond is buying a 6m bullet proof pickup truck as she interacts with her sidekick doggie for the camera...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I think you missed my point. It was not about the car but rather a personal attack because you don’t like their style or point of view. But you reinforced it beautifully by clarifying that it was not about the truck but rather a purely personal attack.  Am I the only one who sees this ?  You actually articulated it and still did not understand that it is not informative or kind. Just empty criticism which looks beneath you. I don’t mean to criticize you in the process, I’m just pointing out what I see in your posts. Maybe knee jerk is correct. I am consistently against personal attacks.  We can all do much better. What would Jesus do?  Smiley

    Maybe the third time is the charm... it is not about the car nor not agreeing with her opinion, it is about these empty headed youtubers with zero substance or culture being the "influencers" of today, very enriching, wether it is this blond with her dog talking about a pickup truck she has no clue about or the Kardashians, yet those heroes that are actually making humanity advance are ignored. You bet it is an attack. Just like I will attack actors and rock/rap stars influencing the public on politics, not much different.

    Don't know about Jesus, but we can ask Musk though Twitter, the next best thing according to some.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Oh I get it. Third time is a charm. It’s just me. I was brought up to not say anything if I have nothing nice to say. There are many things I don’t care for and people I don’t like. Unless they are hurting someone or I think I can help them improve their positive outlook I tend to not say anything.  If I consider them a friend I spend extra effort trying to help with my simple perspective on reality and what is productive and what is not.  
    I am not PC by any stretch at all but I do care about my fellow man and all the negativity around me. Just trying to help. If making fun of others makes you feel better in some way then that is a sad state for you to be in. Resisting any advice to see it or change is up to you. I suppose you may continue to wonder if I understand you. Trust me I do. Very well. It’s a shame.  But I like everyone and try to see the best in things and people. I enjoy life a great deal doing this so I’m passing it on. Up to you to think of me as an asshole for trying to be nice and make this forum as positive place to visit rather than a dumping ground of frustrations which have crept into your head.  Cheers and happy thanksgiving to all. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:

    I don’t understand why someone’s positive impressions of anything would lead to insults. It’s okay if you like or don’t like the truck or anything for that matter but it is simply not cool to constantly attack people who don’t agree with your point of view. Just tell us how you feel about the truck. The telling us how you feel animosity toward those who like something you don’t care for just let’s us know what you are all about.  You otherwise know nothing about about these people so it mostly reflects poorly on you. I don’t call anyone names who does not agree with me. I let them enjoy their opinion (unless they insult me but you all know that). 
    It is the unjustified attack on people for their preferences (they are not hurting anyone) which leads to group think and far worse. Let’s try and find nice things to say about people and keep criticizing just the car or design, specs whatever. Everything else is a weak attempt at logic / persuasion / polarization which never adds up to success. It does spread the confirmation bias and emboldens others to escalate the problem. Who wants that?  No wonder discussions here go south.  
    maybe I should be a moderator?   Okay, you all can stop laughing. I’m done joking. 

    In your predictable knee jerk reaction with anything Tesla related you missed the mark, nothing to do with the truck this time, and more to do with another unbearable bird brain youtuber influencer with zero substance on why the young blond is buying a 6m bullet proof pickup truck as she interacts with her sidekick doggie for the camera...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I think you missed my point. It was not about the car but rather a personal attack because you don’t like their style or point of view. But you reinforced it beautifully by clarifying that it was not about the truck but rather a purely personal attack.  Am I the only one who sees this ?  You actually articulated it and still did not understand that it is not informative or kind. Just empty criticism which looks beneath you. I don’t mean to criticize you in the process, I’m just pointing out what I see in your posts. Maybe knee jerk is correct. I am consistently against personal attacks.  We can all do much better. What would Jesus do?  Smiley

    Maybe the third time is the charm... it is not about the car nor not agreeing with her opinion, it is about these empty headed youtubers with zero substance or culture being the "influencers" of today, very enriching, wether it is this blond with her dog talking about a pickup truck she has no clue about or the Kardashians, yet those heroes that are actually making humanity advance are ignored. You bet it is an attack. Just like I will attack actors and rock/rap stars influencing the public on politics, not much different.

    Don't know about Jesus, but we can ask Musk though Twitter, the next best thing according to some.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Oh I get it. Third time is a charm. It’s just me. I was brought up to not say anything if I have nothing nice to say. There are many things I don’t care for and people I don’t like. Unless they are hurting someone or I think I can help them improve their positive outlook I tend to not say anything.  If I consider them a friend I spend extra effort trying to help with my simple perspective on reality and what is productive and what is not.  
    I am not PC by any stretch at all but I do care about my fellow man and all the negativity around me. Just trying to help. If making fun of others makes you feel better in some way then that is a sad state for you to be in. Resisting any advice to see it or change is up to you. I suppose you may continue to wonder if I understand you. Trust me I do. Very well. It’s a shame.  But I like everyone and try to see the best in things and people. I enjoy life a great deal doing this so I’m passing it on. Up to you to think of me as an asshole for trying to be nice and make this forum as positive place to visit rather than a dumping ground of frustrations which have crept into your head.  Cheers and happy thanksgiving to all. 

    Get off the high horse oh righteous one, should we dig up some of your posts of politics threads before politics had to be banned? Lets get real. If you want to preach and lecture how good you are and your positive influence on the world by ironically doing what you are precisely criticizing, find someone who cares about it first, I already tend to ignore your posts unless they are directed at me if I'm honest, you should do the same. Happy Thanksgiving.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The Rivian truck is much more significant than the Tesla Cybertruck plus it has 100,000 orders from Amazon confirmed.  This is something lost in Musk’s flurry of hype.   Legacy automakers use body-on-frame construction to facilitate commercial light truck needs, i.e., flat beds and custom box configurations.  Tesla, with the Cybertruck design, is locked out of that market, meaning it is nothing more than a fashion bauble for the social media influencers.  
     

    Rivian R1S and R1T: Everything We Know

    The Plymouth, Michigan startup quickly became one of the hottest things in the automotive world. Here's what to expect from its first two cars.

    BY CHRIS PERKINS 

    OCT 24, 2019

    image

    RIVIAN

    Before last winter, very few people knew about Rivian. But when the Plymouth, Michigan automaker revealed its electric R1T pickup and R1S SUV concepts last November, it became one of the hottest things in the automotive world. A few months later, Amazon led a $700 million investment in the company, and soon after, Ford invested $500 million.

    Rivian didn't come from nowhere, though. It was founded ten years ago by RJ Scaringe, just after he completed his doctorate in mechanical engineering at MIT. The company only emerged out of stealth last year, when it revealed the R1T and R1S. Rivian says the pickup will hit the market late next year, while SUV sales will follow in 2021. Here's what we know about the pair.

    They Share a Platform

    image

    RIVIAN

    Both the R1T and R1S use a "skateboard" platform designed in-house by Rivian. The battery pack is mounted in the floorpan between the two axles and frame rails. Suspension is double wishbones up front and a multi-link setup in the rear, with height-adjustable air springs, adaptive dampers, and a hydraulic anti-roll system.

    Rivian proudly touts the fact that all of the main mechanical components in the R1S and R1T will sit below the height of the wheels, contributing to a low center of gravity. The platform was also designed to maximize occupant and cargo space, so the R1T and R1S should be quite practical.

    Ford will eventually use this platform for an EV of its own as part of its deal with Rivian. It's unclear what form that Ford would take, but it will likely arrive after the automaker's electric Mustang-inspired SUV and F-150.

    Both Have Four Motors Each

    image

    RIVIAN

    One of the great possibilities electric motors afford is torque vectoring. The new Acura NSX uses an electric motor for each front wheel. In some cornering scenarios, the outside front wheel is overdriven while the inside front is under-driven, and theoretically, the wheels can be spun in opposite directions. That means the NSX's handling balance can be manipulated on the fly by its software. 

    The Rivian twins will both get a motor for each wheel, which leads to all sorts of unique handling possibilities. The four-motor setup should make each model quite good off road, too, which fits in with the company pitching the R1T and R1S as "adventure" vehicles. 

    If they reach production, they'll be the first mass-market four-motor EVs. So far, the only automakers to offer four-motor EVs are Rimac, with its ultra-exclusive hypercars, and Mercedes, with the limited-production SLS E-Cell. Other high-end four-motor EVs—notably from Lotus and Pininfarina—are on their way, but none in the sub-$100,000 range. Tesla is working on a three-motor Model S and Model X, however

    They'll Be Quick

    image

    RIVIAN

    Rivian's acceleration claims for the R1T and R1S grabbed attention when the pair debuted. When equipped with a 135-kWh battery pack—the middle of Rivian's three battery-size options—the R1T and R1S will hit 60 mph in 3.0 seconds and 100 mph in under 7.0 seconds. That's supercar territory.

    The four motors in the base 105-kWh R1T and R1S will combine to make 402 hp, and that figure rises to 753 hp for the 135-kWh version. Rivian will offer a 180-kWh battery pack for the R1T and R1S, but those trucks will make 700 hp. The 105-kWh Rivian models make 413 lb-ft of torque, while the two larger-battery versions will offer 826 lb-ft.

    Estimated Range Figures Are Impressive

    image

    RIVIAN

    Rivian is making bold claims about the range of its trucks. The automaker says the 105-kWh R1T will do over 230 miles on a charge, the 135-kWh will do over 300, and the 180-kWh will do over 400 miles. The R1S betters each of those figures by 10 miles. We'll have to wait for EPA-certified numbers to know for sure, but these are impressive numbers. 

    The longest range EV currently on the market is the Tesla Model S Long Range, which manages to get an EPA-certified 370 miles out of its 100-kWh battery pack. Rivian is saying its smallest battery is bigger than Tesla's largest at the moment. And it's bigger than what everyone else offers currently. The next largest is the Audi e-Tron, which has a 95-kWh battery.

    They'll Be Made In Illinois

    image

    RIVIAN

    Rivian purchased a manufacturing plant in Illinois once owned by Mitsubishi. It plans on building the R1S and R1T there, along with 100,000 electric delivery vans ordered by Amazon. Production at the Normal, Illinois plant will begin next year. The automaker also has facilities in Plymouth, Michigan, San Jose and Irvine, California, and Surrey, England. 

    Pre-Ordering Is Open Now

    image

    RIVIAN

    If the R1T and R1S strike your fancy, you can put a $1000 deposit on one via Rivian's website. The pickup will start at $69,000, while the SUV is a little costlier at $72,500. Both will be eligible for the $7500 Federal EV tax credit, plus other local incentives if applicable. Rivian hasn't detailed pricing for all R1T and R1S model variants just yet. Presumably those prices will be announced closer to when the trucks hit the market.

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Guys, c'mon...let's stop this. No need to fight over personal opinions, preferences and whatever.

    We are all friends here, even if we sometimes do not agree with each other. 

    Cheers. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-0DdRHA-ZQ

     
    He has good points.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrGgIDqgUj4

    Matt Farah

    @TheSmokingTire 2 h

    Only in a Tesla review can you speak positively for 17 minutes, point out a few reasonable drawbacks, conclude you may want to lease one, and have the first 20 commenters tell you how you don’t know shit and have lost all credibility. Totally normal and cool. Not a cult.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Recommended? Consumer Reports Clarifies Tesla’s Reliability Results

    The score for the cheapest Tesla went from 24 to 59. The Model S barely made the cut.

    Gustavo Henrique Ruffo

    On November 17, we published an article about Consumer Reports’ 2019 Reliability Survey and the fact that the magazine gave a Recommended status to the Tesla Model S and the Tesla Model 3. At the time, we wanted to clarify some doubts we had about it and we're glad to tell you we managed to chat with Jake Fisher, CR’s senior director of auto testing. He addressed all the concerns we had and even gave some good news to Tesla fans.

    Recommended? Consumer Reports Clarifies Tesla’s Reliability Results

    8 Photos

     

    Recommended? Consumer Reports Clarifies Tesla’s Reliability ResultsTeslaTeslaTeslaTeslaTeslaTesla

    Our main doubt about the survey was how could a company that was in 23rd among 30 car brands have 2 of its 3 models as Recommended vehicles. Presumably, that would put it in a much better position, but the fact is that the Model X, with a score of only 15 points, did drag the company down. It was among the ten least reliable vehicles of the survey.

    More Tesla Reliability News:

    CR achieves the score for the brands by adding all its vehicles’ points and dividing them for the number of models involved. We only had the number for the Model X and estimated the Model 3 and the Model S had around 51 each. Well, they didn’t.

    The Model 3 lost its Recommended status when it got a 24 score in 2018. In the 2019 Reliability Survey, it managed to get a 59 score, with 35 more points. It is 145.8 better than the previous rating. In other words, it more than doubled its score in a matter of one year.

    Tesla's Performance On Consumer Reports Reliability Survey Made Us Wonder

    The Model S had a much less remarkable recovery. It had a 31 score in 2018. Better than the one presented by the Model 3, by the way. In 2019, it got a 41 rating, enough to classify it as “Average,” according to Fisher. That is the least a car must offer in terms of dependability to earn a Recommended rating.

    “We transform the Reliability Score to a 100-point scale for the ease of understanding and comparing. There are five rating categories assigned:

    ‘Much Better than average’ is 81 to 100.

    ‘Better than average’ is 61 to 80.

    ‘Average’ is a range that centers around 50, ie. 41 to 60. 

    ‘Worse than Average’ is 21 to 40.

    ‘Much Worse than average’ is 1 to 20.”

    The improvement the Model 3 got is even more significant when confronted with this table. For only two points, the most affordable Tesla did not earn the “Better than average” assessment. Which would be like celebrating a B instead of a C-, as we mentioned in our previous article. The Model S, on the other hand, almost had a D.

    When added, those numbers give us a total score of 115. Divided by three, Tesla ended up with 38.33 score. Out of CR’s goodwill in rounding that up, the official number became 39. More severe teachers would give it just a 38, which would result in a tie with Volvo.

    Those improvements were not reported in all Tesla Model 3 or Model S units, just the brand-new ones.

    “We rely on what is actually happening on the field. When we see these things in the field, that is when they are going to influence reliability. Let’s take the case with the MCU, where the older models are having problems. Tesla has said it has changed that for the brand-new ones rolling off. Our Recommendation is talking about ‘do I buy a new vehicle?’ We’re not recommending the used models. We separate the new and the used. Those vehicles that may have a problem down the road are vehicles we did not recommend buying new in the first place.”

    Apples to apples

    Checking CR’s 17 trouble areas list, we were also concerned about the way the magazine evaluates pure electric cars. It seemed there is not a specific scale for their evaluation.

    Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You Much To Repair

    Is a battery pack problem considered as an electric system issue or as a major issue, as it should? What about any MCU matter? Will it be included in the last item of the list, the in-car electronics bucket? CR’s senior director of auto testing told us to rest assured that they properly weight all that even if the magazine does not present a list for EVs.

    “Inherently, it is a lot simpler than with an internal combustion vehicle, and we do see very few battery or motor problems with EVs. Historically, we have seen some problems. The Honda Civic Hybrids at one point actually had a fair amount of problems with their batteries and we were not recommending them at the time because of that. Because we weigh that quite heavily.”

    Will Tesla Fix All A-Rust Issues On The Model 3?

    Anyway, we still see a lot of paint issues with the Model 3. All units we inspected, even freshly delivered, had the top of the left front fender touching the frame on the A-pillar, which may cause the rubbing of these components and lead that part to rust. Is CR considering that? According to Fisher, it is.

    “The models that were built in 2018 had much more paint problems than the ones that were built in 2019.  Our latest data came from vehicles purchased this summer and these vehicles are far better. It is part of the reason we changed our recommendation rating.”

    Have A Look At All Known Tesla Model 3  Issues

    But how does CR weigh that sort of problem? If you check its trouble areas list, it is not one of the most severe. But a lot of these paint issues combined may be equivalent to something bigger.

    “If you have a bunch of small problems or a few big problems, our look is the same. Actually, it is refreshing to hear this because, for a while, we have not been recommending the Model 3. And I have been hearing nothing but ‘it’s just paint problems, why aren’t you recommending this vehicle? The car is still reliable. That is not a reliability problem.’ A lot of people have told us they do not consider that as a reliability problem because the car still goes. It’s different points of view. I appreciate hearing from all sides, but the way I look at things is that, when you purchase a new vehicle, you don’t have to have this sort of problem. That is not something you have to put up with, especially when you are spending quite a lot of money on a new vehicle. We will continue to weigh these problems. Anyway, we absolutely recognize that a paint problem is not as serious as ‘the engine does not start.’”

    Check Issues the Model X May Have With The Help Of The Electrified Garage

    Although Tesla enthusiasts often see this as “short-sellers’” or “FUDsters’” news, this is obviously not the goal of CR’s Reliability Survey. On the contrary, according to the magazine’s senior director of auto testing.

    “When we started reporting problems from our survey, I had the perspective that without letting people know of these problems, they are not going to improve. Maybe it is a message to consumers, maybe it’s also a message to Tesla. And it says: ‘If you want us to recommend these vehicles to people, you got to get this stuff fixed. It is not something that consumers want.’”

    Check Images Of The Live Presentation Of Tesla Cybertruck

    Speaking of which, another concern we had with the Recommended rating was that CR considers owner satisfaction as one of its components. How does it avoid passion to interfere with an objective assessment of problems? Fisher gave us a very good explanation about that.

    “For sure there is a lot of goodwill. Certainly, Tesla owners are enthusiastic about their vehicles. They tell us that, despite these problems, they would absolutely buy them again. But keep in mind that we are not asking if they think their cars were reliable, nor if they were satisfied. We’re simply asking about the experiences and we are making the judgment based on these experiences. Even very enthusiastic owners want to tell us their stories: good, bad, or different. And they tell us the truth. Some of the cars that people are most enthusiastic about are the least reliable ones.”

    Electric Vehicle Gathering Sets World Record With 431 EVs In Montreal

    Fisher also stressed that the reliability survey does not consider sales numbers. This is why there is no reason to think Teslas are underrepresented. We brought that up in our previous article to explain the survey had no relation to sales numbers, but perhaps that was not very clear.

    “There is a smaller amount of Teslas on the road then there are Toyotas. We don’t really do any compensation to try to make it seem that there are more Teslas.”

    Tesla's Performance On Consumer Reports Reliability Survey Made Us Wonder

    Consumer Reports is not a company. It is an organization. The fact that it was previously known as Consumer Union tells a lot about its mission. It is funded by its members, consumers like you, and respected for its editorial independence. That said, it is a relief to see it is treating electric vehicles in the correct way. We think it is appropriate to end this article with something they have in their “About Us” section.

    “We are passionate about our work because we know how much is at stake for you. We succeed in our mission every time your family gets a little bit safer, your finances get more secure, new technologies get more trustworthy, and the future gets that much brighter. Together we are creating a safe, fair, and transparent marketplace.”

    We at InsideEVs share that same spirit, even when we do not have good news to report. We're glad that was not the case with this article.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Topspeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrGgIDqgUj4

     

    Matt Farah

     

    @TheSmokingTire 2 h

    Only in a Tesla review can you speak positively for 17 minutes, point out a few reasonable drawbacks, conclude you may want to lease one, and have the first 20 commenters tell you how you don’t know shit and have lost all credibility. Totally normal and cool. Not a cult.

     

    Matt Farah provides a balanced assessment of the Tesla and personal attacks against him aren't surprising, if one has ever followed a Tesla-oriented blog or website.  I posted above an analysis of Tesla's performance in the Consumer Reports, a States-based publication that reviews most consumer oriented products and services, annual reliability review.  

    While Tesla has addressed a number of early quality issues, many still remain.  One issue with the Consumer Reports quality measures is every perceived defect has an equivalent weighting, meaning massive engine failure counts the same as a cupholder that is seems too small to the respondent.  Technology, and is its implantation in the car, is the number one problem identified by new car owners.  Sometimes it is a legitimate concern while often it is more an issue with consumer learning.

    The following video is of the new Porsche Taycan driven over similar L.A. canyon roads as Farah's drive with the Model 3 Performance.  The Porsche is without peers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkwu_MR1D-E

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Call me a geek but I love these type of videos (btw, he is a Tesla owner)

     


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Topspeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrGgIDqgUj4

     

    Matt Farah

     

    @TheSmokingTire 2 h

    Only in a Tesla review can you speak positively for 17 minutes, point out a few reasonable drawbacks, conclude you may want to lease one, and have the first 20 commenters tell you how you don’t know shit and have lost all credibility. Totally normal and cool. Not a cult.

     

    I enjoyed his review. But - it is just my opinion - he does not quite understand battery tech or the self driving / auto pilot tech in the car.  I have come to actually the exact opposite opinion regarding leasing vs buying this car.  My driving habits have changed. I now drive much much more because it is so much more fun and relaxing and not to mention virtually free. I also drive much quicker and aggressive but no one can tell due to the silence and benign look of the car. The car will also suffer fewer facelifts and such keeping the look fresh and at the same time constantly being updated over the air with newer features. It will be interesting if he changes his opinions regarding the batteries and other tech once he leases and drive the car for a few days rather than minutes.  This has been my experience.  You guys know I’m a petrol head. Porsche’s all my life so I have paid my dues.  Like I said I have more fun and drive much quicker now that I’m on electrons. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I believe he had the car for 1 week.

    This car was better built than the one he tested months ago.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Have you seen the virtual competition from Audi... Smiley

    Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFJWxZiwt9g

    ...how do you like them apples?

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣

    Others call that the preview of the R8’s electric replacement.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣

    Others call that the preview of the R8’s electric replacement.  

    Nah, couldn't be that - we would have heard about RC's order for one by now if that were true.....Smiley


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣

    Jumping to conclusions again?  Bit of a broad stroke    - do we need to label people who like cars as though they are part of a cult?  The only purpose is to somehow marginalize and denigrate people who like something you don’t without knowing them so that others agree with you and follow your lead in disliking them - without any information about the individual.  Whatever. You guys don’t even see what you are doing. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣

    Jumping to conclusions again?  Bit of a broad stroke    - do we need to label people who like cars as though they are part of a cult?  The only purpose is to somehow marginalize and denigrate people who like something you don’t without knowing them so that others agree with you and follow your lead in disliking them - without any information about the individual.  Whatever. You guys don’t even see what you are doing. 


    On the contrary that’s a very specific group of people and not broad stroke.

    I am sure you don’t identify as a Tesla cultist, but a Tesla fan. And you don’t agreed with a lot of stuff those cultists says.

    Just like there are Islamic terrorists and regular Muslims. 
     

    You know enough of other manufacturers that unlike Tesla, if they announced something, it is coming very soon.


     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    4trac:
    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣

    Others call that the preview of the R8’s electric replacement.  

    Nah, couldn't be that - we would have heard about RC's order for one by now if that were true.....Smiley

    Smiley Smiley I'm a Lambo guy now... Smiley

    Also, the next gen R8 is dead, an EV cannot replace it. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    4trac:
    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    Tesla cultists called this a vapor ware 🤣

    Others call that the preview of the R8’s electric replacement.  

    Nah, couldn't be that - we would have heard about RC's order for one by now if that were true.....Smiley

    Smiley Smiley I'm a Lambo guy now... Smiley

    Also, the next gen R8 is dead, an EV cannot replace it. Smiley

    RC, would you consider a next gen hybrid? Smiley


     
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