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    997 GT2?

    Is Porsche planning a GT2 variant for the 997?

    Re: 997 GT2?

    i would imagine yes.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    I read an Article where the Porsche President of North America said the new GT2 will not come out any time soon. Well think about this, Porsche will not make the GT2 slower than the 997TT or Gt3, so with the GT3 420 h.p. and 997TT 500 h.p. where would the GT2 fit here??? They will have to make a fantastic race car even better than before. I would not be surprised if the new GT2 is more user friendly than before and can be driven with less effort than the 996GT2.
    In my opinion and based on my mere driving experience the GT2 is an untamed beast that after 30 min of regular street driving will get yoru nerves. Now driving on the track is a different story

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    r00t61 said:
    Is Porsche planning a GT2 variant for the 997?



    Planned? Yes. But I didn't hear any rumors of a possible setup, power, etc., meaning that it may take a while. We're expecting the GT3 and Turbo first, I doubt that the GT2 will make it to customers before 2008.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    r00t61 said:
    Is Porsche planning a GT2 variant for the 997?



    Planned? Yes. But I didn't hear any rumors of a possible setup, power, etc., meaning that it may take a while. We're expecting the GT3 and Turbo first, I doubt that the GT2 will make it to customers before 2008.



    I assume besides the weight-savings from removing the (apparently) massive front axle from the AWD as well as the rear seats and other insulation and weight-adding items, the car would retain the new VTG turbo technology for the stabdard TT. Presumably Weissach might get the DSG available for the GT2, as well, just as is anticipated for the GT3?

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Im still wondering why a 997TT would gain weight when I dont (think?) the standard carrera gained much....anyhow, a GT2 will be the best of the best, but Im super curious as to how they will price it this time!

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Be sure to include a PSM button so that *I* can choose whether or not I want to die young. :-)

    Re: 997 GT2?

    DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing



    The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing



    The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.



    Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing



    The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.



    Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???



    That is correct. We are probably close to the decision whether fun dominates efficiency (manual) or whether efficiency dominates fun (DSG)...

    Re: 997 GT2?

    I hope yes!

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing



    The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.



    Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???



    That is correct. We are probably close to the decision whether fun dominates efficiency (manual) or whether efficiency dominates fun (DSG)...



    well guys, dont know how many of you have actually driven a DSG. I did and for my taste it is quite fun, actually quite alot. and i'm someone who does heel and toe most of the time, just for the heck of it...

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    turbolite said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing



    The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.



    Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???



    That is correct. We are probably close to the decision whether fun dominates efficiency (manual) or whether efficiency dominates fun (DSG)...



    well guys, dont know how many of you have actually driven a DSG. I did and for my taste it is quite fun, actually quite alot. and i'm someone who does heel and toe most of the time, just for the heck of it...



    Plus, the DSG could be offered as an option for the GT2, so 6-speed manual could still be available for us traditionalists, and DSG for those looking to win races.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Here's my qualm with DSG systems:

    1st of all I tested an A3 with DSG and it is a cool amenity but I found it odd that it was on an into luxury hatch.

    What it made me think of was trickle-down economics. Applied to cars, we see the cutting edge of technology in racing cars (F1 transmissions ---> Paddle Shifters, Carbon Fiber, Tire technology, downforce etc etc etc) and we immediately want to grasp upon this. However, there is a heirarchical progression that one takes to get to that level.

    Do you think Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso are incapable of driving stick because they use F1 transmissions? Doubtful. However, with the inherient trickledown of this technology, in another generation, what if Manuals become extinct? Imagine chatting with some young hotshot 30 years from now, telling him about "toe heeling" and he laughs at you, calling you some antiquated fool...

    Basically what I'm saying is the flagship vehicles need to offer the original manual so there is some historical heritage attached to the vehicle. Otherwise, through generational changes, we will fall down a slippery slope that will lead to the irrevocable shift of motorsports!

    Dramatic enough

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Here's my qualm with DSG systems:

    1st of all I tested an A3 with DSG and it is a cool amenity but I found it odd that it was on an into luxury hatch.

    What it made me think of was trickle-down economics. Applied to cars, we see the cutting edge of technology in racing cars (F1 transmissions ---> Paddle Shifters, Carbon Fiber, Tire technology, downforce etc etc etc) and we immediately want to grasp upon this. However, there is a heirarchical progression that one takes to get to that level.

    Do you think Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso are incapable of driving stick because they use F1 transmissions? Doubtful. However, with the inherient trickledown of this technology, in another generation, what if Manuals become extinct? Imagine chatting with some young hotshot 30 years from now, telling him about "toe heeling" and he laughs at you, calling you some antiquated fool...

    Basically what I'm saying is the flagship vehicles need to offer the original manual so there is some historical heritage attached to the vehicle. Otherwise, through generational changes, we will fall down a slippery slope that will lead to the irrevocable shift of motorsports!

    Dramatic enough



    That kind of reminds me of fighter pilots of today. A WW2 veteran would toast most of them all day long...

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Im still wondering why a 997TT would gain weight when I dont (think?) the standard carrera gained much.!



    The 997 coupe gained a net of about 70 lbs over over the 996 coupe . Porsche said most of the net increase was due to adding ever more " pig iron " reinforcements here and there for the 911 to meet ever more stringent crash worthiness standards . That weight will be " built in " into the GT3 and Turbo variants , too. My 6 spd Turbo with sunroof weighs 3550 lbs with full tank , so expect the 997 Turbo to be around 3600-3650 minimum. So a 997 Turbo Cab Tiptronic will be 4000 lbs ! What we don't know is how much more or less weight a DSG box will be than a manual 6 spd. Anyone have the comps for the DSGs in VWs and Audis ?

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    That kind of reminds me of fighter pilots of today. A WW2 veteran would toast most of them all day long...


    A Sidewinder would toast most of your WW2 veterans in their Spitfires or Mustangs! :

    Even though the 911 is a 40 year old classic, technical progress should trump anachronism. Do you enjoy your synchronized gearbox, or do you long for the bad old days?

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Anachronism is one thing, but the essence of the sport is another thing

    Adding technical features that diminish the essence of motorsports (in top-end models) will lead to these features to be presented on lower end models.

    As a result, people who are introducing themselves into motorsports with introductory models will never have the chance of driving properly.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    In the BMW's the SMG gear box is only 14 lbs more.
    made by Borg Warner, same people going to make the PDK gear box, hopefully it will be only 15-20 lbs more than 6speed.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    My dealer seemed to think that Porsche wouldn't be making a GT2 in the 997, time will tell.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    ARMD009 said:
    In the BMW's the SMG gear box is only 14 lbs more.
    made by Borg Warner, same people going to make the PDK gear box, hopefully it will be only 15-20 lbs more than 6speed.



    I hope that the delta holds for the 997 series BW -sourced DSG/PDK box, as the Tiptronic slushbox has always netted a 100 lb penalty.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    That kind of reminds me of fighter pilots of today. A WW2 veteran would toast most of them all day long...


    A Sidewinder would toast most of your WW2 veterans in their Spitfires or Mustangs! :

    Even though the 911 is a 40 year old classic, technical progress should trump anachronism. Do you enjoy your synchronized gearbox, or do you long for the bad old days?



    In a close-up dogfight? The sidewinder doesn't even have time to lock on to the target. It just flies away and crashes onto some lawyer's F430 in La Jolla...
    Also, you can't compare the small advance in synchronization, which simply results in different procedures when shifting to a fully automatic gearbox where the only effort you have to make is shift with your fingers. I mean seriously, unless a person is disabled they should be able to shift. Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...

    Re: 997 GT2?

    me too! plus the BMW's is a 7 speed the PDK will prob be a 6speed, should be lighter.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    In a close-up dogfight? The sidewinder doesn't even have time to lock on to the target. It just flies away and crashes onto some lawyer's F430 in La Jolla...



    Except the Mustang would be unable to get within shooting range of an F16, while it won't even know a Sidewinder is headed its way before it is reduced to burning ashes. Dogfighting ability is nice to have on the side, but it's mostly irrelevant nowadays.

    Anyway, I doubt a WW2 veteran (or even a Vietnam veteran) could be able to safely fly a plane with computer-controlled controls without a thorough retraining. How many Airbuses A320 crashed in the mid 80's because in a critical situation, the pilots reacted as though they were flying a 737?

    Different times, different tools require different skills.

    Quote:
    Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...


    Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?

    How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.

    I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).

    Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Renquist said:
    My dealer seemed to think that Porsche wouldn't be making a GT2 in the 997, time will tell.



    My dealer said the same...

    Re: 997 GT2?

    What the world really need is a 3 clutch sequential gearbox. The DSG is great, only if the computer predicts the correct next gear. The BMW, Ferrari, etc. system are just manual gearboxes w/ computer controlled gearbox and hydrolic clutches.

    W/ a 3 clutch system, the car will be able to engage the next higher and lower gears, imagine being able to shift in less than .002 seconds, both up and down in gears.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    In a close-up dogfight? The sidewinder doesn't even have time to lock on to the target. It just flies away and crashes onto some lawyer's F430 in La Jolla...



    Except the Mustang would be unable to get within shooting range of an F16, while it won't even know a Sidewinder is headed its way before it is reduced to burning ashes. Dogfighting ability is nice to have on the side, but it's mostly irrelevant nowadays.

    Anyway, I doubt a WW2 veteran (or even a Vietnam veteran) could be able to safely fly a plane with computer-controlled controls without a thorough retraining. How many Airbuses A320 crashed in the mid 80's because in a critical situation, the pilots reacted as though they were flying a 737?

    Different times, different tools require different skills.

    Quote:
    Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...


    Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?

    How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.

    I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).

    Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .



    Hey, if I learnt to fly an F/A-18 on my PC (and seriously pissing off a real F/A-18 pilot in the process ), I can't see why a WW2 pilot couldn't learn to fly an F16. After all, these things are incredibly easy to fly. I remember hearing about the Airbus crashes, but those were done by pilots with almost NO retraining. Anyhow, I like the manual because it gives me greater control of the car, allows for smoother shifting and, let's face it, separates the men from the boys. Anyone can keep their foot planted and let the PSM save their asses, but driving a GT2 with no PSM will truly show the skill. Let me say that I am in no way opposed to automatics (they're nice... in SEDANS), but a standard manual should be kept as an option. And yeah, I stand by my original statement: a WW2 veteran will BLOW a modern pilot out of the sky. Fact is, the US Navy kill ratio against the Israeli Air Force during an exercise a couple of years ago was about 1:10 (10 Navy planes for 1 Israeli plane). And yes, I've discussed it with Hornet and Tomcat pilots. And do you want to hear an even more disturbing thing? A Strike Eagle pilot admitted that the AF squadrons usually lose to USN squads during exercises, due to even less emphasis on dogfighting. A bunch of WW2 veterans would have the same effect on today's pilots.
    Now back on topic

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...


    Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?

    How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.

    I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).

    Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .



    This is an issue that cannot be judged on a purely logicetrnic basis, but is an issue of personal taste.

    However, myself, I find that there are a few ESSENTIAL aspects of motorsports. One of them, in my opinion, is the ability to control the car via a manual. It is the essential connection from man to machine.
    Steering has become subjective due to the electronics and gizmos that interfere left and right. The tranny really was the last bastion of connection, and that really is being severed.

    Re: 997 GT2?

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...


    Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?

    How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.

    I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).

    Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .



    This is an issue that cannot be judged on a purely logicetrnic basis, but is an issue of personal taste.

    However, myself, I find that there are a few ESSENTIAL aspects of motorsports. One of them, in my opinion, is the ability to control the car via a manual. It is the essential connection from man to machine.
    Steering has become subjective due to the electronics and gizmos that interfere left and right. The tranny really was the last bastion of connection, and that really is being severed.



    Very well said.

     
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