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    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    Well, as long as you are comfortable with your choice.kiss

    But I must remind you that a fool often denies what he believes.

     

    Nick,

    Panamera is a 911 for a family of 4. That's why Christian keep it. It's like us keeping a sportscar for weekend drives. Except Christian's sportscar can seats 4 comfortably, while mine will only seat 2. 

    He uses the Cayenne as his PRIMARY commuting car during the week, sporty enough to keep him from falling asleep yet stealthy enough not to raise any objection from his neighbours.

    Christian would LOVE to have a 2 door sportscar for the weekend but the timing is not right yet for him thus his compromised solution of keeping both the Panny and the Cayenne. 

    Cayenne GTS is too slow and compared with the Panny Turbo S not sporty enough for Christian's weekends, and the Panny is too flashy to be his everyday work horse. 

    I actually get him completely.

     

    Wow...are we soul mates? Smiley Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Super Darius:

    Congrats RC!

    Before i'm joking,if the GTS is what you need,sure is the right choice.It looks great!

    Have you got also the same mines winter wheels(also mines are painted in black).

    remember to put spacers,5mm in the front and 15mm in the back(from Porsche tequipment),if not your car will looks horrible.

     

    Thank you, Dario! Smiley

    I cannot add wheels spacers because of the snow chains I need to use from time to time.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    galion:

    @RC, Congrats for your recent purchase, you have a perfect combo there, very well done!!

    I feel you 100%,  I have a 991 which I love, but also two kids and a wife and enjoy spending all weekends with them, so the 991 is useless for that matter, neither can I use my 991 as a DD, I am to anal to take my baby to work and leave it parked all day outside in a very busy street, I use my Cayenne GTS for that purpose without remorse. I'm seriously thinking in ditching the 991 and like you, get a very sporty four seats sedan that we all can enjoy together on weekends, maybe a F10 M5.  I will miss my 991 to death, but theres always time to get another one later when the kids grow up and no longer want to hang out with us Smiley

    Thanks again, guys.

    @galion: Please do yourself a favor and do not get the new M5. This car has serious traction issues and you will regret it (you wouldn't be the first one) sooner or later. You are right, with kids, a 911 is kind of obsolete. I wish Porsche would have made the rear compartment a little bit bigger and more comfortable but they chose not to do so, which is a pity. I kind of get the feeling that Porsche wants family fathers to buy a 911 and a Panamera or Cayenne. Not sure however if this works.

    The new 650ix Grand Coupe could be a nice alternative, one of our forum members got one and seems to be very happy with it. 0-60 mph performance is in the M5 territory and as a benefit, you get AWD too and the car is cheaper than the M5. Just a suggestion... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Well I must say it's a real shame you couldn't get the GTS interior with the red stitching. But a great choice and you can mark my words, the Panamera will go. You are too young for a Panamera in any case.  kiss


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Congratulations, well done, very glad you went for it. Looking forward to your driving impressions .


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    RC

    @galion: Please do yourself a favor and do not get the new M5. This car has serious traction issues and you will regret it (you wouldn't be the first one) sooner or later. You are right, with kids, a 911 is kind of obsolete. I wish Porsche would have made the rear compartment a little bit bigger and more comfortable but they chose not to do so, which is a pity. I kind of get the feeling that Porsche wants family fathers to buy a 911 and a Panamera or Cayenne. Not sure however if this works.

    Sorry RC as an owner of the m5 i just cant understand what your are saying all the times about the m5f10. If i listen to you i think the m5 is undrivable....really dont get it. It looks like for you just counts nordschleife times and 0-100 acceleration or high speed driving on wet...  Sorry dont get this point in public driving

    the m5 is perfect for highways and high speed, pretty sure it is one of the fastest saloons out there. it is a lot of fun on twisty roads, you can play so easily with it. I just love this drifts. Put  every settings into sharp mode, and mdm off, and there are hardly no regulation from the system and yes traction is still fine...  the m5 f10 is for me the perfect spring and summer car. with lots of power lots of fun, stealth look and relativly small money (i am not brand based at all..)i love this care. I will never us any sedan in winter it doesnt make sense to me as i want ground clearance..

    By the way if i compare the engine of the x6m and my new upcoming cayenne turbo with wls (27the december delivery) the m engine feels mutch better, and more corresponding on the m cars. I went just for the cayenne because the x5m/x6m feel so outdated comparing to the m5 with the interieur desing, and the cayenne felt more precise in turns than the x5M/x6m... But engine wise, for me the x5/6m  would be the car to get..

     

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Dario:
    RC

    @galion: Please do yourself a favor and do not get the new M5. This car has serious traction issues and you will regret it (you wouldn't be the first one) sooner or later. You are right, with kids, a 911 is kind of obsolete. I wish Porsche would have made the rear compartment a little bit bigger and more comfortable but they chose not to do so, which is a pity. I kind of get the feeling that Porsche wants family fathers to buy a 911 and a Panamera or Cayenne. Not sure however if this works.

    Sorry RC as an owner of the m5 i just cant understand what your are saying all the times about the m5f10. If i listen to you i think the m5 is undrivable....really dont get it. It looks like for you just counts nordschleife times and 0-100 acceleration or high speed driving on wet...  Sorry dont get this point in public driving

    the m5 is perfect for highways and high speed, pretty sure it is one of the fastest saloons out there. it is a lot of fun on twisty roads, you can play so easily with it. I just love this drifts. Put  every settings into sharp mode, and mdm off, and there are hardly no regulation from the system and yes traction is still fine...  the m5 f10 is for me the perfect spring and summer car. with lots of power lots of fun, stealth look and relativly small money (i am not brand based at all..)i love this care. I will never us any sedan in winter it doesnt make sense to me as i want ground clearance..

    By the way if i compare the engine of the x6m and my new upcoming cayenne turbo with wls (27the december delivery) the m engine feels mutch better, and more corresponding on the m cars. I went just for the cayenne because the x5m/x6m feel so outdated comparing to the m5 with the interieur desing, and the cayenne felt more precise in turns than the x5M/x6m... But engine wise, for me the x5/6m  would be the car to get..

     

     

    I didn't say the M5 is undrivable but after driving a C63 AMG Coupe PP for almost a year, I will not buy such a car again, simply because it is no fun as a daily driver. I testdrove the M5 on two occasions and while I liked the throttle response and basically the lack of any turbo lag, the car has serious traction issues. You are talking about drifting and whatever but the M5 is supposed to be a daily driver, not a race car. Smiley BMW already recognized this issue, they are thinking of adding an AWD version with the facelift.

    Yes, I agree on the engine statement (X5M/X6M vs. Cayenne Turbo), the M GmbH V8 bi-turbo engine in the X5/X6 M and M5/M6 is an amazing piece of technology, there is basically no turbo lag.

    However, the Panamera Turbo S, if you press the Sport Plus button, shows almost no lag either. Unfortunately I can't drive around in winter time with Sport Plus active, unless of course I want to play Walter Röhrl at the Rallye Monte Carlo all the time. Smiley It is kind of a mystery for me why Porsche didn't add a Sport Plus feature to the Cayenne though.

    Don't get me wrong: I agree that the M5 is an amazing product and money-wise, one of the best deals around (especially considering the fact that BMW dealers usually also provide a serious amount of rebate too) but the traction issues are annoying...unless of course you want them. 

    One of our forum members was considering the M5 too but went for a 650iX instead. From 0-100 kph, the 650ix has basically the same performance like the M5 and if you live in a speed limited country, this may the better deal to go with, especially since the 650iX is also much cheaper.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    993Targa:

    Well I must say it's a real shame you couldn't get the GTS interior with the red stitching. But a great choice and you can mark my words, the Panamera will go. You are too young for a Panamera in any case.  kiss

    At first, I wanted to walk away. I really liked the carmine red stitching. My wife however, after she saw the carmine red stitching live, advised me not to get it. She was right, the big red GTS letters on the headrest are clearly visible from the outside when the car is parked and...well...I think you know what I'm trying to say. It looks too special. I always loved the Cayenne interior, more than the Panamera interior and the red stitching isn't that important but yes, it looked nice. I also didn't need the trailer hitch which came with the other car, so I got the Lane Change Assist, Porsche Entry & Drive and Automatic Rear Hatch. Definitely more useful to me than the trailer hitch. Smiley

    I waited too long with my decision, same goes to the S Diesel I could have had. This car was gone as well but I wasn't really interested anyway.

    The Panamera will not go, simply because it is the only "high performance" car I have right now in the stable and with two kids, this is the only choice I have to have some fun without leaving my family behind.

    The only thing which could happen in 18 months (this is when the Mini Cooper S Countryman All4 lease runs out), is that I decide to get a fun car, like the 991 Turbo or 991 GT3. For this however, the stock markets need to reach new highs... Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Congrats on the purchase. I just knew the itch would be far to itchy to just go..indecision..

    Hope you and family enjoy many safe enjoyable miles.


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    As an "older guy" with kids, wives (two marriages), dogs, cats, hamsters,etc., I love hearing about you young guys considering "practical" Porsches.

    I blame it all on women.  It was a Man's World-until Eve came along...


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    RC:

     

    I didn't say the M5 is undrivable but after driving a C63 AMG Coupe PP for almost a year, I will not buy such a car again, simply because it is no fun as a daily driver. I testdrove the M5 on two occasions and while I liked the throttle response and basically the lack of any turbo lag, the car has serious traction issues. You are talking about drifting and whatever but the M5 is supposed to be a daily driver, not a race car. Smiley BMW already recognized this issue, they are thinking of adding an AWD version with the facelift.

    Don't get me wrong: I agree that the M5 is an amazing product and money-wise, one of the best deals around (especially considering the fact that BMW dealers usually also provide a serious amount of rebate too) but the traction issues are annoying...unless of course you want them. 

     

    it is my daily driver and it all depends of the driver. If you smash on every occasion the trothle to the max, maybe than you are wrong with this car, but as dailydriver in its lowest setting it is a perfect cruiser. Not aggresiv and very mutch on the save side. But it all changes when you put all settings to sport plus (and mdm off, very important)  then it becommes a live and you will burn rubber if you want so. Still dont forget also the m5 achived 0-100 in 3,9 seks witch is fantastic for a rear wheel drive car with traction problems.. But this 0-100 times just dont count for me, that is not real live.  from 100-up to high speed is mutch more of a use, for my driving.

    Concerning the c63 i think the stock rear wheel tyre witih just 255mm (correct my if i am wrong) are maybe not the best choice traction wise..

    awd m5 apperently will not com with facelift, m-gmbh still says they have the x5/x6m.

    anyway i dont wanne be off topic on your tread, have fun with your new car, enjoy it

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Dario:

    anyway i dont wanne be off topic on your tread, have fun with your new car, enjoy it

    Don't worry...we are all friends here. Smiley  Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Wonderbar:

    As an "older guy" with kids, wives (two marriages), dogs, cats, hamsters,etc., I love hearing about you young guys considering "practical" Porsches.

    I blame it all on women.  It was a Man's World-until Eve came along...

    Smiley 

    I am actually very lucky with my wife: Regarding cars, she only gets involved when I ask for her opinion. There is however one rule she set a long time ago: No Lamborghini, no Ferrari. Way too flashy for our neighborhood. I can live with that. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Congrats and enjoy  RC.


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Congrats RC. Does this one have TPMS & if not do you know something we dont about a retrofit


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Dicke Gratulation RC. Ich denke du hast eine SUPER Wahl getroffen! Viel Spass mit Deinem neuen SpielzeugSmiley

    Gregor


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Gilmour:

    Congrats RC. Does this one have TPMS & if not do you know something we dont about a retrofit

    No, even if this one doesn't have TPMS, which is a problem but I am working on a solution. Officially, the TPMS sensor cannot be retrofitted but I am working on finding a solution for this dilemma. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Congrats RC.

    BTW, It's a nice christmas present you're buying for yourself! Enjoy it. Smiley

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    amazon:

    Congrats RC.

    BTW, It's a nice christmas present you're buying for yourself! Enjoy it. Smiley

     

    I never thought of that...you're right. Smiley Thank you. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Christian enjoy - and thanks for sharing your purchasing process - always fun wink


    --
    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: The itch strikes again...

    TEE:

    Christian enjoy - and thanks for sharing your purchasing process - always fun wink

    My pleasure. I wish more people would do the same (some actually do). Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    A family vehicle should not be a fun vehicle especially for spirited driving. You expose the family to dangers unnecessarily and provide a bad example to your children.Having said that, I understand where both of you are coming from. It is something I would not do and I predict Christian dumps the Panamera in the not too distant future. It is a phase with him just like the C63 was.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    @Nick,

    You obviously have not driven a Panamera Turbo.  It is much closer to the 911 than any sedan.  It can easily be used as a track weapon and can hang with Caymans and 911s with no problem (I have rode it on track with my instructor driving).  Other than being bigger in size and more comfortable to drive, it should be classified as a sport car.

    @RC,

    Congrats on GTS purchase.  I clearly remember the long thread when you were deciding whether to buy Panamera vs Cayenne.  You tried to talk yourself into using Panamera for everything including ski trips.  I told you Cayenne should be the better choice with its bigger storage room.  Glad you have both now.

    I am a family man too, with 3 kids.  I believe a garage will not be complete without a 911 (preferable a GT3/RS, and stick shift), even if you don't use it often. 


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2011 Panamera 4


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    nberry:

    A family vehicle should not be a fun vehicle especially for spirited driving. You expose the family to dangers unnecessarily and provide a bad example to your children.Having said that, I understand where both of you are coming from. It is something I would not do and I predict Christian dumps the Panamera in the not too distant future. It is a phase with him just like the C63 was.Smiley

    I agree Smiley, specially with the part of setting an example to the kids, but for me, a fun family car has little thing to do with going fast, I enjoy the looks, the feel, the sound, the throtle response and the ability to enjoy it all together without being bored, I wouldnt dare to drive it like I stole it and expose my loved ones to danger.


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    galion:
    nberry:

    A family vehicle should not be a fun vehicle especially for spirited driving. You expose the family to dangers unnecessarily and provide a bad example to your children.Having said that, I understand where both of you are coming from. It is something I would not do and I predict Christian dumps the Panamera in the not too distant future. It is a phase with him just like the C63 was.Smiley

    I agree Smiley, specially with the part of setting an example to the kids, but for me, a fun family car has little thing to do with going fast, I enjoy the looks, the feel, the sound, the throtle response and the ability to enjoy it all together without being bored, I wouldnt dare to drive it like I stole it and expose my loved ones to danger.

    it is not the car that matters but the driver! if you want to be safe and a role model to your kids make yourself a better and more experinced driver. few do. how many of you have actually done driver training - and I dont mean that one course we all do...that is what makes the differenceSmiley


    --
    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: The itch strikes again...

    There are times when real world collide with ideals. 

    Maybe the kids are at a function on a weekend and Christian get called last minute to pick them up, maybe need to drive an extra friend home. Christian is out having fun in his fun car, with a 911 he can't possibly do it, but if he is in the Panny he can. He 'could' go home and switch cars in order to do the pick up but may not be practical.

     

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    You can't be serious! The car has everything to do with how you drive especially with children. If a son or daughter ride in a high hp car with either their father or mother driving and they used the car to its fullest extent and are excellent performance car drivers, what do you think the children will do when they become eligible to drive?

    Also, once at speed we all know the slightest unexpected road surprise invariably leads to serious injury or death. Alone we risk it because it is fun and accept  that we are responsible for our own actions. However, when family is involved, it is a risk we cannot and should never take.

    FWIW, I am not sure what you refer to regarding drivers training. Performance driving classes or driver education? If performance driving classes, I have attended several (including the very first Porsche Performance Driving School in the US) with a combined tuition costing in excess of a decent sport car.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    You can't compare German drivers with Americans. USA is the easiest place to obtain a driver's license, pretty much anyone with a head, let alone a brain, can get a license, which doesn't means they are even remotely capable of operating a motor vehicle at ANY speed.

    Germany is one of the hardest place to obtain a driver's license, driving a car there is a privilege, not a right. Plus, they have the autobahn, so they are much more used to operating the vehicle at much higher speed than American drivers.  

    Safe driving is more about attention, or lack of. Driver needs to be paying attention to everything and not be distracted.  Take a American driver driving at 20mph, have him/her talk on a cell phone, txt to best friend, putting on make up, reading documents, etc, then take a German driver driving at 190mph doing nothing but concentrating on his surroundings, guess who will crash first? Who will spot unexpected surprises first? I will gladly put my whole family riding with the German driver at 190mph at day but I will refuse to even go near that American driving at 20mph.

    Drivers training is meant to let you experience the operating limit of your car, so you will know how far the car can get out of shape before it's hopeless to save. If you know the threshold of the limit, you will be better prepared to react to surprises as you will know how much can you input to correct the car, saving yourself from an accident. 

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    Whoopsy for most fun and excitement in driving a car involves being at the limit or edge. By definition that means almost losing control of the car at speed. You would place your family in that position?heart

     


    --

     


    Re: The itch strikes again...

    I already have tons of fun just doing shot bursts of accelerations in the Turbo S, especially on highway on ramps doing 0-60, or doing 60-80 passing which happens in like 1 second. And I am a experienced and responsible enough driver to do those in a safe place. 

    Cornering? Hmm, the limits in all my cars are so high that there is no sense even trying on narrow public roads. 

    There is no need to be at or even close to the limit to have fun.

    On the other hand, if I were driving a low power Miata, then it would be a different story. That car with it's skinny tires is known to have the rear step out even doing city left turns on traffic lights, but that car is so catchable that even my wife had no problem doing a slide and drift for those left turns. It's not even remotely close to dangerous. 


     
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