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    Re: Porsche 992

    I hate the pop pops on car exhausts. It should only be real sounds!


    --

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Porsche 992

    RC:
    the-missile:
    RC:

    I won't speculate anymore if this is the last n/a engine or not since these rumors almost change on a daily basis. yes

    Don't forget that 2020 has another strict regulations implementation...Smiley

    If they introduce it quickly, it is probably to avoid the nightmare which is coming in very near future.Smiley it still remains to be seen as the first mule is only on the road since July 18 and new car footprint required certainly longer than few months to propose a ready solution for the road with usual level of expectation for GT cars.

    It is getting ridiculous with this whole WLTP and emissions stuff... Smiley

    VW Group is to blame, if they would have handled the whole emissions scandal in Europe the same way they handled it in the US, we wouldn't be in this mess. I sometimes really have to wonder why these CEOs earn that much money.

    VW Group put themselves (and other car manufacturers in the process) into the crosshairs of environmental groups and governments. Very very clever. SmileySmileySmiley

    Next month, a very important decision will be taken regarding Diesel cars in Germany and how VW Group (and others) are going to deal with them. Will be pretty interesting but if they are clever, they put tons of money into it to kill this whole scandal. Not sure however how clever they are, so far they didn't do a very good job.

    Emissions regulations should not be frowned upon.

    I drive one of the first petrol cars fitted with particulate filter which is mandatory in the EU as from July 2018.

    After 2.500 km the exhaust pipe is as clean as when the car left the factory without any soot deposits.You can imagine where all these residuals generated by direct injection engines went prior to this regulation.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche 992

    RC:
    Gauss:
    RC:

    Right now, it seems that the 992 won't be in Paris, just the Macan facelift. surprise 

    Funny: According to rumors, even the Macan models shown in Paris won't be available until end of the year or early 2019 because the engines are still from Audi and the WLTP certification isn't ready yet. angry

    Oh, also a new rumor regarding the 992 GT3: Since the 991.2 GT3 RS gets a particulate filter for 2019, there is now a strong rumor that the 992 GT3 comes earlier (2020) than planned and it will have a n/a engine with particulate filter as well. Rumored power is 540 hp. They decided this from a cost perspective, it would be a pity not to use the WLTP 4.0 l modified engine for a 992 model.

    I won't speculate anymore if this is the last n/a engine or not since these rumors almost change on a daily basis. yes

    The 992 GT3 RS will surely be based on the same engine as the GT3 again and have a prospective power of 560 hp. That's another 60 hp Porsche would have to squeeze out of the current engine. 

    540 hp are rumored right now...but if they can squeeze another 20 out of it, why not? The problem is still that particulate filter and the exhaust system. No more "backfiring" for the 991.2 with particulate filter btw., no more pop pop. Smiley

    I meant 560 hp for the 992 GT3 RS which will based on the 992 GT3


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: Porsche 992

    Ah, OK...sorry...misunderstood you. Smiley

    There was another rumor that they may offer a RS version only but again...so many rumors right now, so much crap as well, don't even know what to believe anymore. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche 992

     Geneva remains the probable choice, in my view. But it really doesn’t matter when – you guys will find something wrong with it immediately. Too much plastic, not enough horsepower, boring, whale,ugly rear spoiler, too heavy, etc. wink


    Re: Porsche 992

    Wonderbar:

     Geneva remains the probable choice, in my view. But it really doesn’t matter when – you guys will find something wrong with it immediately. Too much plastic, not enough horsepower, boring, whale,ugly rear spoiler, too heavy, etc. wink

    Smiley Tough crowd...but I already said it, I like the new 992 but I kind of moved on. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche 992

    Hybrid tech is not ready for prime time unless in very specific high performance applications, not many care about it and now that mass market EV are around the corner, would wants to buy old tech? For example just go test drive a hybrid Cayenne, the car is a mess, it is not fast nor economical, the battery is too small and you cannot run the car on battery only unless you want to drive an anvil.


    Re: Porsche 992

    SciFrog:

    Hybrid tech is not ready for prime time unless in very specific high performance applications, not many care about it and now that mass market EV are around the corner, would wants to buy old tech? For example just go test drive a hybrid Cayenne, the car is a mess, it is not fast nor economical, the battery is too small and you cannot run the car on battery only unless you want to drive an anvil.

    Mild hybrids is the secret here... Drove a car which isn't ready yet, it took off the line like a rocket, never experienced something like that, amazing. I wouldn't be surprised to see the next gen 992.1 or 992.2 Turbo S doing 0-100 kph below 2.5 or even 2.3 seconds. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche 992

    It is about time that they reveal the 992. Common guys, get this WLTP certification and go... smiley


    Re: Porsche 992

    Josef:

    It is about time that they reveal the 992. Common guys, get this WLTP certification and go... smiley

    The WLTP certification issues aren’t limited to Porsche nor the EU.   Yesterday, Volkswagen announced that the Arteon’s introduction for North America is being delayed until 2019. It was to happen now but the certification department can only work on so many projects at a time. Volkswagen can’t simply hire additional skilled people and get that work completed, so a backlog has resulted.   It is so bad in the States, as an example, that Audi dealers have no A8s, A7s, or A6s in inventory and are relying on crossovers for any sales.

     


    Re: Porsche 992

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Hybrid tech is not ready for prime time unless in very specific high performance applications, not many care about it and now that mass market EV are around the corner, would wants to buy old tech? For example just go test drive a hybrid Cayenne, the car is a mess, it is not fast nor economical, the battery is too small and you cannot run the car on battery only unless you want to drive an anvil.

    Mild hybrids is the secret here... Drove a car which isn't ready yet, it took off the line like a rocket, never experienced something like that, amazing. I wouldn't be surprised to see the next gen 992.1 or 992.2 Turbo S doing 0-100 kph below 2.5 or even 2.3 seconds. Smiley

    I think we will see a number of hybrid options in the 911 over the 992 and next generation. Taycan will provide Porsche with the platform to continue the development and improvement of battery technology to create a 911EV. A hybrid 911 is a car I may move to next.

     


    --

    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


    Re: Porsche 992

    EnglishManInNY:

    I hate the pop pops on car exhausts. It should only be real sounds!

    +1


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche 992

    bluelines:
    EnglishManInNY:

    I hate the pop pops on car exhausts. It should only be real sounds!

    +1

    Often times I drive in normal mode with PSE on just so that there are no pops in overun, when in reality I would like to drive in sport mode all the time.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche 992

    Same here indecision Or in Sport Plus mode which also don’t have the pops on the .2


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche 992

    The 991.1 still gets pops in Sport Plus crying ... This artificial exaust farts fad has gotten silly, just this afternoon I saw an M2 pass by as I was walking on the street and the pops that has cars is ridiculous just cruising (worse than a 991l, looked like it had a perforated muffler, it was embarrasing imo, a couple next to me was chuckling after it passed by... the fact that it has a black and white camo type pattern vinil job didnt help, looked like a swiss cow 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche 992

    Carlos from Spain:

    looked like a swiss cow 

    Known to fart a lot. Very suitable for the exhaust Smiley


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche 992

    Carlos from Spain:

    The 991.1 still gets pops in Sport Plus crying

    I believe Porsche removed the artificial pops in Sport Plus mode to enable the anti-lag features for the turbo engine. Tells you how much show the pops are Smiley


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche 992

    CGX car nut:
    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

    Yes, I think so!!!! (My Opinion)

    If the car was/would shown in Paris dont see any reason why the car wouldnt be in Los Angeles (assuming Porsche will be at LA Auto Show).

    Still think it would be stupid to show the car FIRST in Los Angeles first when European Customers are the ones getting it first and only 5/6 months later would our friends in North America get it!!!...Dont remember also any new Generation of the 911 (besides facelit´s) being shown outside of Europe!!!

    Dont worry, whether it is going to be show is Paris first or not, i´m pretty sure (no inside info, just a guess) the 992 will be in Los Angeles!!!!

    Regards!!!

    California still remains a significant market for Porsche sales and China isn't too far away with myriad flights available, so an introduction at Los Angeles does make some sense.  Audi saw fit to debut its new BEV in northern California and if Porsche is to introduce a hybrid variant at the show, it strongly taps into the California sustainability vibe.  

    Well, maybe were both wrong...Smiley  LOL

    Salut Smiley 


    --

    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: Porsche 992

    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:
    CGX car nut:
    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

    Yes, I think so!!!! (My Opinion)

    If the car was/would shown in Paris dont see any reason why the car wouldnt be in Los Angeles (assuming Porsche will be at LA Auto Show).

    Still think it would be stupid to show the car FIRST in Los Angeles first when European Customers are the ones getting it first and only 5/6 months later would our friends in North America get it!!!...Dont remember also any new Generation of the 911 (besides facelit´s) being shown outside of Europe!!!

    Dont worry, whether it is going to be show is Paris first or not, i´m pretty sure (no inside info, just a guess) the 992 will be in Los Angeles!!!!

    Regards!!!

    California still remains a significant market for Porsche sales and China isn't too far away with myriad flights available, so an introduction at Los Angeles does make some sense.  Audi saw fit to debut its new BEV in northern California and if Porsche is to introduce a hybrid variant at the show, it strongly taps into the California sustainability vibe.  

    Well, maybe were both wrong...Smiley  LOL

    Salut Smiley 

    Appears to be case if the debut is now next year. 


    Re: Porsche 992

    Gauss:  The 992 GT3 RS will surely be based on the same engine as the GT3 again and have a prospective power of 560 hp. That's another 60 hp Porsche would have to squeeze out of the current engine. 

    I don’t think you realize how hard it is to get 560hp out of any street-legal 4.0L NA motor.  How much harder it is when that 4.0L motor has only 6 cylinders.  And how much harder again when that 4.0L 6-cyl has a filter shoved up its exhaust.  I’m personally amazed if they get more than the current RS (520hp, so 560 is only 40 more rather than 60, but nearly impossible, IMO)


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: 992

    RC:

    I do not have details, unfortunately but I know what kind of engines will be used (not in detail though, just the raw data like cylinders, displacement and horse power with a minor error margin in the horse power domain).

    Hybrid tech is coming but maybe not immediately in the Carrera models. Also, it will be rather used to push power output and lower emissions/fleet consumption numbers, if you get my point. 

    I have no information on the engines used for totally new models but I heard that a possible 960 could use a new developed V8 engine (incl. hybrid tech!), which could make it into other VW Group brands as well. Not before earliest 2020 though.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    So technically they could keep the GT3 range NA as long as they lower the emissions of their other cars (which should be a simply task with EV Macans/Cayennes/Panameras)? That’s interesting. I always thought that every engine had to meet the criteria.


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: 992

    No, all engines need to meet the emissions criteria.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992

    RC:

    No, all engines need to meet the emissions criteria.

    What about Lamborghini, Bugatti, Maserati and Ferrari engines? Do they meet emissions criteria? 


    --


    Re: 992

    SportCarGroup:
    RC:

    No, all engines need to meet the emissions criteria.

    What about Lamborghini, Bugatti, Maserati and Ferrari engines? Do they meet emissions criteria? 

    There was some sort of "exception" for limited productions but I'm not sure this applies to Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati. In fact, Lamborghini will soon have WLTP compliant engines, cannot say much about the others but my guess would be YES. I am curious about McLaren...especially since the UK is leaving the EU but I guess it won't be much different since they want to sell their cars in the EU as well.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992

    In the EU there is leniency towards smaller manufacturers, as follows:

    Targets for smaller manufacturers

    Manufacturers selling

    • between 10,000 and 300,000 cars per year can apply for a fixed target of a 25% reduction from their 2007 average emissions for 2012-2019, and a 45% reduction from the 2007 level as of 2020.
    • between 1000 and 10,000 cars per year can propose their own emissions reduction target (subject to approval by the Commission based on agreed criteria) if they cannot or do not wish to join a pool;
    • fewer than 1000 cars per year, as well as special purpose vehicles – such as vehicles built to accommodate wheelchair access – are excluded from the scope of the legislation.

    I remember Di Montezemolo once said that Ferrari didn't want to exceed 10.000 units in a year. Probably it was related to the above.

    Porsche fall in the highest category of exemptions, but still a 45% reduction from the 2007 level is a difficult task.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: 992

    Thanks but wasn't there recently a EU commision decision what from 2020 or 2021 on, there are no more exceptions for smaller volume manufacturers? I could be wrong though.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992

    As from 2021 there will still be a differentiation in targets between manufacturers. But from what I understand this will not be on numbers produced but on the basis of the average test mass (determined by a formula not just curb weight) of all new vehicles by a manufacturer.

    However, producers of less than 10.000 cars will still be able to apply for a relaxation of their emissions target.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: 992

    reginos:

    As from 2021 there will still be a differentiation in targets between manufacturers. But from what I understand this will not be on numbers produced but on the basis of the average test mass (determined by a formula not just curb weight) of all new vehicles by a manufacturer.

    However, producers of less than 10.000 cars will still be able to apply for a relaxation of their emissions target.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

    Emissions targets or if these cars don't get a particulate filter and comply with WLTP standards, they could be denied certain emissions classifications, resulting in a direct impact on where they can drive or not. 

    I don't envy car manufacturers right now, not even the smaller ones.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche 992

    bluelines:
    EnglishManInNY:

    I hate the pop pops on car exhausts. It should only be real sounds!

    +1

    Instead mine pops good,and i love it indecision


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: 992

    RC:
    reginos:

    As from 2021 there will still be a differentiation in targets between manufacturers. But from what I understand this will not be on numbers produced but on the basis of the average test mass (determined by a formula not just curb weight) of all new vehicles by a manufacturer.

    However, producers of less than 10.000 cars will still be able to apply for a relaxation of their emissions target.


     

     

    Emissions targets or if these cars don't get a particulate filter and comply with WLTP standards, they could be denied certain emissions classifications, resulting in a direct impact on where they can drive or not. 

    I don't envy car manufacturers right now, not even the smaller ones.

    The bottom line: Legislators want to oust cars as we have known them and like them.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


     
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