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    Re: My 991 C2S

    Yellow is the new white! Excellent, after seeing this yellow is my favorite 991 color. kiss


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Enmanuel:

    Iain your configurations are always so classy. You always hit the mark. 


    +1 Awesome configuration! Looking forward to seeing some interior pictures, since you always tend to have some nice details configured inside as well.  Smiley


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: My 991 C2S

    very cool looking car !! congrats !


    Re: My 991 C2S

    No offence, but I would never put black stone guards on 911....angry


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    Re: My 991 C2S

    Found this Cayman R whilst browsing the classifieds (tempted²), now that would be the perfect addition to your C2S!

    http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3511943.htm


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Congrats Iain! You sure know how to buy cars Smiley

    Great choice and something really out of the usual for you spec wise. Enjoy them in the best of health mate!


    Re: My 991 C2S

    BlackOctober:

    No offence, but I would never put black stone guards on 911....angry

    For obvious reasons...I have to ask why not! 

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Hello ISUK,

    On the manual for the 911[991], which originally I ordered, have you read the road tests in 'Porsche GT' and '911-Porsche'?

    Both extensive reviews by prominent writers were very disappoined in the smoothness of the shifter, gear to gear; the change from 7th to 6th often gives 4th; and the overall ratios chosen are not as well spaced as in the PDK.

    FInally the PDK has been improved [about time, as that in the Cayman S 2011/12 was so bad I had to do the reverse change]  that I took the superb manual instead. Top advice is that the 991 was developed with the PDK, and less effort put into the manual...initially the production of the manual was delayed for unknown reasons. Tested cars appear also to be variable in manual qualtiy within a fleet of vehicles used for media [Car Mags] testing.

    Much as I enjoy and love the brand, Porsche often do not get new innovative systems 'right' the 1st time /year. e.g. The PDK has taken several years/a model 997 to 991, as has the PASM.

    Good Luck!

    KiwiCanuck

     

    !


    Re: My C2S

    Hello Budster,

    No, the 997 does not look better. Both have excellent body style, so fortunately for 997 owners, your car STILL looks great. To many eyes, in direct side by side comparison, the 991 is different and with some better contour-features. Lower, sleeker and more modern...

    The major difference is due to the 'Blackwheels' and the 'Polished  metal with chromeblack '...those on the 991 are better overall, because...

    Liking a black wheel when the car is at rest, and you walk around it...admiringly...it may have some other color or polished-metal as 'trim'...is one thing. But when you watch that car going passed, you see a bright yellow car without wheels floating passed.  Dreadfull! One is utterly deceived by such blackwheeled vehicles.

    Only good thing? You think it looks great as you drive, and never see your car in motion!

    Remember the fable of the Emporer with no clothes...then the little boy [a cultural stranger] walked by!

     

    KiwiCanuk


    Re: My 991 C2S

    John H:
    BlackOctober:

    No offence, but I would never put black stone guards on 911....angry

    For obvious reasons...I have to ask why not! 

     

    I just don't like how it looks....I don't think that such a part as stone guard should get emphasis. It should be hidden....Many people even don't know what is that for....

    --


    Re: My C2S

    KiwiCanuck:

    Hello Budster,

    No, the 997 does not look better.

    Not to sound like a pantomime dame, but "Oh yes it does...........!"

    (I also have black wheels on my 997 GTS and I must admit that you make a very interesting point - especially as they are such low profile...  But I'm going to try not to take anything you say seriously now as it's too stressful. Smiley)


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: My 991 C2S

    KiwiCanuck:

    Hello ISUK,

    On the manual for the 911[991], which originally I ordered, have you read the road tests in 'Porsche GT' and '911-Porsche'?

    Both extensive reviews by prominent writers were very disappoined in the smoothness of the shifter, gear to gear; the change from 7th to 6th often gives 4th; and the overall ratios chosen are not as well spaced as in the PDK.

    FInally the PDK has been improved [about time, as that in the Cayman S 2011/12 was so bad I had to do the reverse change]  that I took the superb manual instead. Top advice is that the 991 was developed with the PDK, and less effort put into the manual...initially the production of the manual was delayed for unknown reasons. Tested cars appear also to be variable in manual qualtiy within a fleet of vehicles used for media [Car Mags] testing.

    Much as I enjoy and love the brand, Porsche often do not get new innovative systems 'right' the 1st time /year. e.g. The PDK has taken several years/a model 997 to 991, as has the PASM.

    Good Luck!

    KiwiCanuck!

     

    I never take reviews seriously and prefer to find out for myself. Many road testers said the E gear system in the Gallardo was terrible - it isn't, you just need to adapt your driving style to get the best from it. Many said the magna ride suspension was a must have on the California - it isn't and the car handles much better without it. Many said the throttle response on the 458 was too sharp to make low speed driving easy - it isn't. Journalists will always look for some issue they can home in on to fill an article. Compare their short first drive reviews or road test observations to their views on the same car if they actually put them on fleet for long term evaluation. They often do a complete about face on issues they previously cited as "problems". They dress it up by saying things like "I bonded with the car" or "I learned how to get the best out of it". It says it all when you see testers notes that frequently say things like - improve the iPod connection, not enough storage spaces, the display won't let me list my music in the way I want it etc Smiley

    The issue with all of these silly headline grabbing comments is that because of them and the weight manufacturers think they carry thanks to vociferous support for them on forums (most from people who've never owned or driven the cars involved) is that we are ending up getting cars that are becoming ever smoother and less involving for the driver. What we used to regard as mechanical feel is now being attacked by the Playstation generation of younger drivers as "heavy steering", "notchy gearshifts", "non linear throttle response" etc. It's turning cars into conveyances as opposed to things to be enjoyed for mastering the technique to get the best out of it. I don't want the equivalent of automotive white goods for my sports cars so if the 991 manual gearbox is slightly notchy I'll probably enjoy it more. I mean come on...... road testers complaining about the box because they can't shift from 4th straight into 7th! Smiley  The same level of rubbish came out when 5 speed gearboxes were first introduced with comments "such as why do we need an extra gear?", "I continually forgot to change up into 5th and had to consciously remind myself to do so" etc being common place in magazine reviews. The same thing happened when 6 speed manuals came out.

    I disagree with your comments on the PDK fitted to the 987.2 and 997.2. I'm sure many others here do as well. In 19,000 miles in 987.2 S with PDK  I never found it to be anything other than a great system whether used in auto or manual mode.

    As for the black wheels that is a personal taste issue. They served Porsche pretty well throughout the 70's on cars with the Fuchs option Smiley

    I will report back later with my initial impressions on my wonky gearbox, invisible wheels and overly obvious stone guards Smiley


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Great post, thanks. (and a perfect 991)

    Sports cars have to have a character. They are not super fast VW Golfs. And each of us prefers different characters. Mr. X loves the Turbo as daily driver, Mr. Y the sound of the SLS and Mr. Z  the Italian flavor of his 458. All a great products. Many Turbo owner probably wouldn't love their car if it is a flashy as a 458 or as loud as a SLS.

    And so some like to be as fast as possible with maximum comfort and buy PDK, other like to feel connected with a manual gearbox.

    Opinions of journalists and their critics are sometimes ridiculous. If I ever drink only beer I can’t complain with a good red wine and the fact that it is not the best thirst quencher in in the summer.

     


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Great insightful post ISUK, thanks!


    Re: My 991 C2S

    ISUK:

    I never take reviews seriously and prefer to find out for myself.

    The issue with all of these silly headline grabbing comments is that because of them and the weight manufacturers think they carry thanks to vociferous support for them on forums (most from people who've never owned or driven the cars involved) is that we are ending up getting cars that are becoming ever smoother and less involving for the driver. What we used to regard as mechanical feel is now being attacked by the Playstation generation of younger drivers as "heavy steering", "notchy gearshifts", "non linear throttle response" etc. It's turning cars into conveyances as opposed to things to be enjoyed for mastering the technique to get the best out of it. I don't want the equivalent of automotive white goods for my sports cars so if the 991 manual gearbox is slightly notchy I'll probably enjoy it more. I mean come on...... road testers complaining about the box because they can't shift from 4th straight into 7th! Smiley  The same level of rubbish came out when 5 speed gearboxes were first introduced with comments "such as why do we need an extra gear?", "I continually forgot to change up into 5th and had to consciously remind myself to do so" etc being common place in magazine reviews. The same thing happened when 6 speed manuals came out.

    I will report back later with my initial impressions on my wonky gearbox, invisible wheels and overly obvious stone guards Smiley

    Excellent post - as was the next one from Itsme.  Nice to see some people are still thinking for themselves rather than being so concerned about what other people think.  Smiley


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Could not agree more Iain!Smiley


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    Re: My 991 C2S

    Stunning car Isuk!!

    love the colour and "your" black mods!

    Till now is the better looking 991 i saw.kiss


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Iain, very good post on the limitations/misleading nature of magazine reviews.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: My 991 C2S

     


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Hello again ISUK,

    Methinks you protest too much!

    Saying that..."I never take reviews seriously ..." is an interesting approach. I have read numbers of articles by the two correspondants-drivers-writers who reviewed their examples of the 991, and have no reason to treat them with anything but respect. They are very experienced and good at their craft.

    You are also very ready to accept significant flaws in the apparently frequent purchases you make...and 'drive around' them. Well, so can many of us. We should not have to! I do not as I try to avoid such situations.

    You cannot legitimately 'disagree' with my experience with a car, since you did not drive my Cayman S 987.2. The Sales Rep who drove my Cayman for a 2 week vacation in Vancouver, once I had changed to the manual, reported exactly the same issues with that PDK...we are both sensitive and experienced drivers. He noted that he had to explain, to excuse, to his friends and relatives,  the shunting/jerkiness  of the tranny in slower speed traffic, as he did wish to harm the Brand. The apparently quite frequent imperfections of the PDK  in various types of Porsche from their appearance in 987.2/997.2 , were only revealed by writers, from most of the top Porsche Mags, once the much improved version-2 was driven in the 911[991]! Several admitted that they had not reported this in the 987/997...loyalty to the Brand! Jerkiness in double clutch transmissions has been noted [also by our local sales/service managers etc] in BMW, VW, now Porsche...newer versions are showing significant improvements. One top US magazine actually provided a list of frequent flaws, such as the 'double-clutches', actually warning maufacturers that they were going to start reporting features that were frequently experienced! There are also PDK variations from car to car, showing that the design is too sensitive to the 'allowed variations' in components of the PDK. Your attitude to such experiences of others, and to the flaws in cars, are not helpful.

    Very good and experienced drivers notice things like this...your frequent disagreements with the  reviewers [with very rude critiques of them in general] of the several high priced cars you discuss, means that you are either very lucky in the examples you drove/owned ,or you are relatively insensitive as a driver...either way you are lucky!

    I do not need to wish you luck! Where can I buy some of that?

    Cheers

    KiwiCanuk

     

     

     

     


    Re: My 991 C2S

    KiwiCanuck:

    The apparently quite frequent imperfections of the PDK  in various types of Porsche from their appearance in 987.2/997.2 , were only revealed by writers, from most of the top Porsche Mags, once the much improved version-2 was driven in the 911[991]! [...]

    One top US magazine actually provided a list of frequent flaws, such as the 'double-clutches', actually warning maufacturers that they were going to start reporting features that were frequently experienced!


    Doesn´t this exactly prove Isuk´s point in his above post? The fact that magazines refrain to name the flaws immediately but wait for quite some time before they address it just shows that they cannot be seen as an individual and objective source of information. I have read numerous articles about the 991´s steering and am surprised that opinion´s on that subject range from still outstanding via sufficiently fine to soulless (in comparison to previous iterations).


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Ian is 100% Spot on - and I cannot wait to hear the pro's and con's about the manual from somebody who has not only driven a car for a day or so  - but owned them for a longer period ! kiss


    Re: My 991 C2S

    I'm in Iain's corner on this one...kiss

    It takes a while to become fully proficient in the art of using PDK.. as has been discussed many times on this board.  However, once mastered, there really is no need for shunting, jerkiness or any of the adverse elements you suggest.. even on the original 997.2 version..Smiley 

    My GTS is incredibly smooth, in all modes, so long as you adapt to the technique changes required....

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: My 991 C2S

    I'm finally there on this one too now, John.  It just took some time.  I love the manual mode in sport now especially...


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: My 991 C2S

    KiwiCanuck:

    Hello again ISUK,

    Methinks you protest too much!

    Saying that..."I never take reviews seriously ..." is an interesting approach. I have read numbers of articles by the two correspondants-drivers-writers who reviewed their examples of the 991, and have no reason to treat them with anything but respect. They are very experienced and good at their craft.

    You are also very ready to accept significant flaws in the apparently frequent purchases you make...and 'drive around' them. Well, so can many of us. We should not have to! I do not as I try to avoid such situations.

    You cannot legitimately 'disagree' with my experience with a car, since you did not drive my Cayman S 987.2. The Sales Rep who drove my Cayman for a 2 week vacation in Vancouver, once I had changed to the manual, reported exactly the same issues with that PDK...we are both sensitive and experienced drivers. He noted that he had to explain, to excuse, to his friends and relatives,  the shunting/jerkiness  of the tranny in slower speed traffic, as he did wish to harm the Brand. The apparently quite frequent imperfections of the PDK  in various types of Porsche from their appearance in 987.2/997.2 , were only revealed by writers, from most of the top Porsche Mags, once the much improved version-2 was driven in the 911[991]! Several admitted that they had not reported this in the 987/997...loyalty to the Brand! Jerkiness in double clutch transmissions has been noted [also by our local sales/service managers etc] in BMW, VW, now Porsche...newer versions are showing significant improvements. One top US magazine actually provided a list of frequent flaws, such as the 'double-clutches', actually warning maufacturers that they were going to start reporting features that were frequently experienced! There are also PDK variations from car to car, showing that the design is too sensitive to the 'allowed variations' in components of the PDK. Your attitude to such experiences of others, and to the flaws in cars, are not helpful.

    Very good and experienced drivers notice things like this...your frequent disagreements with the  reviewers [with very rude critiques of them in general] of the several high priced cars you discuss, means that you are either very lucky in the examples you drove/owned ,or you are relatively insensitive as a driver...either way you are lucky!

    I do not need to wish you luck! Where can I buy some of that?

    Cheers

    KiwiCanuk

     

    I've no idea where you  got any of this Smiley   I simply don't trust motoring journalists to tell me what I'm going to feel from any particular car. They are in the business of being controversial to sell copy. You were quite blunt in your first post that I had bought the wrong car by having the manual gearbox. You then went on to trash PDK based upon "your" experience of it. I didn't question that but merely relayed my own experience of the system which has been very positive.

    Lets just agree to disagree on our respective views on these topics Smiley


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Now......... for everyone else who ARE interested in feedback on the 7 speed manual gearbox........  It's great! It feels like a slightly less notchy version of the short shift kit I had on my 997.1 turbo with a fairly short throw. The shift lever falls easily to hand and the clutch is nicely weighted and the ratios seem pretty well spaced. There is plenty of space in the footwell on RHD cars with a nicely placed foot rest for your left foot. Cruising at around 90mph/145kph in 7th showed an indicated 2,900 RPM. You really do feel much more involved in actually driving the car with the manual box compared to the test drive I had of the PDK demo car IMHO. The PDK is great for a car being used as a higher miles daily driver and I would have selected that option had that been what I wanted to use the car for.

    I think the negative reviews of the manual probably centre around the tight spacing of the 7 gears across the gate. It takes a little time to become familiar with it but once you do it's fairly easy. The ratios are quite widely spaced so I never felt like I needed to shift from 4th to 7th which some testers have commented on and criticised as it  can't be done due to the lock out feature which only allows you to go from 5th or 6th in 7th. You still have a gear display on the rev counter which shows which gear you've just engaged plus a gear selector suggestion feature on the multi function display which suggests the optimum gear for economy.

    Thus far the car has more than lived up to my expectations and I'm really pleased with it. Everyone who saw it today commented on how good the black stone guards looked. My dealer has ordered two kits for a couple of 997 GTS 4 coupes they have in stock as they were amazed how much they add to the look of the car. There was a guy and his girlfriend just driving away in a new white C2S as I arrived and he has apparently asked them to order a set for his car after seeing mine in the showroom. John...... I always said you had good taste kiss


    Re: My 991 C2S

    ISUK:

    Now......... for everyone else who ARE interested in feedback on the 7 speed manual gearbox........  It's great! It feels like a slightly less notchy version of the short shift kit I had on my 997.1 turbo with a fairly short throw. The shift lever falls easily to hand and the clutch is nicely weighted and the ratios seem pretty well spaced. There is plenty of space in the footwell on RHD cars with a nicely placed foot rest for your left foot. Cruising at around 90mph/145kph in 7th showed an indicated 2,900 RPM. You really do feel much more involved in actually driving the car with the manual box compared to the test drive I had of the PDK demo car IMHO. The PDK is great for a car being used as a higher miles daily driver and I would have selected that option had that been what I wanted to use the car for.

    I think the negative reviews of the manual probably centre around the tight spacing of the 7 gears across the gate. It takes a little time to become familiar with it but once you do it's fairly easy. The ratios are quite widely spaced so I never felt like I needed to shift from 4th to 7th which some testers have commented on and criticised as it  can't be done due to the lock out feature which only allows you to go from 5th or 6th in 7th. You still have a gear display on the rev counter which shows which gear you've just engaged plus a gear selector suggestion feature on the multi function display which suggests the optimum gear for economy.

    I'm so relieved to read this, and from someone who actually has owned 911's and knows what he is talking about, thanks for sharing!


    --


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Thanks for sharing, an interesting read! wink


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Thank you as well. This confirms what my dealer and his first manual customer said. They both loved the manual and felt it just connects you much more to the car than the PDK. Interestingly they also said, that the short delay when shifting manual actually sounds much better when going to the gears then the really quick PDK shifts - a much more interesting and "musical" experience.
    so cannot wait until mid April when I get mine ...


    Re: My 991 C2S

    Porker:

    Thanks for sharing, an interesting read! wink

    +1 Smiley


    --

    fritz


     
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