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    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    But that's Porsche, meant to be driven & not have upscale furniture materials value 


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Gauss:

    Thanks for the extensive review, Christian! kiss One of my neighbours has one in "achatgrau" and it looks stunning. However, I'm not a fan of those digital screens. Unfortunately the next GT3 will have them. 

    It doesn't feel special anymore, it lacks that "wow, I need to have one" feel

    Have you ever wondered, if this lack of "wow" feeling was due to the fact that you have had so many 911's in the past. You've said it yourself that you've grown bored of the 911 (or Porsche in general, minus the GT cars). You've fallen in love with Audi R8 and Lambo, because they're new territory and maybe you will feel the same once you've had a few of those. What I'm trying to say is, the older we get, the harder it gets to find that "wow" factor, because we've had plenty of opportunities to get spoilt smiley So in short, it's not the car that is to blame, but it's us and our expectations. 


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3

     

    I drove a 991.2 GT3 RS and a 991 GT2 RS and I can say that I really liked the GT3 RS. The GT2 RS was a very weird experience, I loved the power and performance but this car scared me a little bit (traction was very good though) and didn't provide the confidence in certain driving situations the Performante provides. Maybe I got used too much to AWD. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    I met a 992 on the highway yesterday and when he accelerated, there was no sound at all…I feel Porsche might have muted the 992 a bit too much, considering how the AMG and M sounds.


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Carlos from Spain:
    DaveGordon:

    +1 this shiny black plastic looks cheap. Doesn't seem like you can even change that with options yes

    And not only looks cheap, it also feels cheap to the touch and gets dirty very quickly which only makes it look worse. It is the worst part of the interior imo, can't believe something like that for the green light on a 150k car, I guess they thought it would make it look more modern but it is a fail...

    +1 On the above photo , you could imagine seing this ( less the Braun shifter ) in a Golf GTI , a A3 or any Audi sedan . 

    With the 991 they already stepped in the wrong direction with the center console , but with the 992 is has become a joke how far from the spirit of a sports car this console has gone . 

    It has to become thinner again and more integrated .  Or better, don't do a proper center console , just a modern reinterpretation of the 997

    The upper dash is good . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    The Carrera is now more then ever a car that most people will be to enjoy . It feels confortable enough , safe enough , confidence inspiring enough , easy enough , sporty enough , special enough  ...... for all the people who before thought the 911's were too  '' sporty ''  . I don't know how long it will take to reach all these new customers , but one's they find out , they will be so happy to switch form their AMG's , Audi RS5 , BMW M's  to this car . 

    Problem could be the price , though . 

    As to the ex- 911 lovers , they are pushed to get GT xxx   as the line is getting bigger and more versatile . 

    But , again , the problem could be the silly prices ........ 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Gnil:

    The Carrera is now more then ever a car that most people will be to enjoy . It feels confortable enough , safe enough , confidence inspiring enough , easy enough , sporty enough , special enough  ...... for all the people who before thought the 911's were too  '' sporty ''  . I don't know how long it will take to reach all these new customers , but one's they find out , they will be so happy to switch form their AMG's , Audi RS5 , BMW M's  to this car . 

    Problem could be the price , though . 

    As to the ex- 911 lovers , they are pushed to get GT xxx   as the line is getting bigger and more versatile . 

    But , again , the problem could be the silly prices ........ 

    +1


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    A true sport car is fun to drive at any speed. It should be electrifying to drive. It should arouse the passion as soon as you turn the key. Recently with the 911 Porsche in its quest to attract a larger audience has compromised the very attributes which made the 911 special. 

    Today the 911 is quiet, comfortable and fast. Its styling changes very little and one is hard pressed to distinguish between model years. It reminds of another car on the market today. Tesla. I could not see myself buying another 911 that isn’t a GT model.


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    nberry:

    A true sport car is fun to drive at any speed. It should be electrifying to drive. It should arouse the passion as soon as you turn the key. Recently with the 911 Porsche in its quest to attract a larger audience has compromised the very attributes which made the 911 special. 

    Today the 911 is quiet, comfortable and fast. Its styling changes very little and one is hard pressed to distinguish between model years. It reminds of another car on the market today. Tesla. I could not see myself buying another 911 that isn’t a GT model.

    +1

    And the quest to attract a larger clientele could backfire. Because equally, in the absence of the customary 911 emotion current and aspiring Porsche customers could move to other top quality brands and save a lot of money in the process.

    The GT models are themselves too expensive for their potential use. Unless someone tracks the car regularly there is no point having a GT3 (never mind an RS) as a road going car.

    IMO the most balanced 911 in terms of cost-benefit was the 997.2 with the 991.1 a close second.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    I disagree. A GT Touring is currently a perfect road car in many ways, it just needs a PDK.

    It is still marginal and anecdotal but I think the 911 regular line will also be squeezed by cars like the Tesla Roadster. For example if the rear seats have more room/height than the California or 992, I will seriously consider getting one. Why? AWD, autopilot and use of highway fast lanes for commuting. A perfect 3/4 seasons sport car daily driver that the 911 used to be. 0-60 in 2.1s or less and very low center of gravity with a neutral weight distribution, so mid engine car behavior. Add smart suspension and traction system and it is at least worth a look. Plus it will have enough juice to be driven hard, unlike the Taycan. And this will happens while the 992 gets a hybrid system with some advantages but all the disadvantages...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    The problem is, what would you rather have for an every day usable car that is still a sports car? Not really any alternatives. Big motor higher center of gravity and heavy sedans ? M5/6/8, Merc 63’s, RS?

    think the 911 continues to be targeted at a 2 car household, where there is a practical car and then the fun car, and in this construct there are few alternatives. They just need to keep a little more check on pricing as it is getting a little out of hand, but as long as the product moves, they will continue to think they don’t need to...

     


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    SciFrog:

    I disagree. A GT Touring is currently a perfect road car in many ways, it just needs a PDK.

    It is still marginal and anecdotal but I think the 911 regular line will also be squeezed by cars like the Tesla Roadster. For example if the rear seats have more room/height than the California or 992, I will seriously consider getting one. Why? AWD, autopilot and use of highway fast lanes for commuting. A perfect 3/4 seasons sport car daily driver that the 911 used to be. 0-60 in 2.1s or less and very low center of gravity with a neutral weight distribution, so mid engine car behavior. Add smart suspension and traction system and it is at least worth a look. Plus it will have enough juice to be driven hard, unlike the Taycan. And this will happens while the 992 gets a hybrid system with some advantages but all the disadvantages...

    You are dilusional if you think a tesla roadster is an alternative to a 911, not to 99,999% of 911 customers... a soundless stoplight racer with no rev range or gear changes that likely weight 2+ tons from all the batteries its going to need to mot run out of juice, and built by a company that builds people movers... Just the mentioning of sportscar and autopilot in the same sentence is ridiculous in itself. The customers of the two cars are totally different crowds, and any overlap will likely have both cars in the garage but not one for the other.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Daily driver sport cars.

    You are the delusional one my friend. The Tesla Roadster is completely a DIRECT competitor of the regular models of the 911. Have you read people’s comments above? The 992 is a muted no emotion evolution that fits a safer more confortable driving style. Maybe we should move this to the Roadster thread though... And for the record I was not the one to bring Tesla in this thread angry


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Gnil:

    The Carrera is now more then ever a car that most people will be to enjoy . It feels confortable enough , safe enough , confidence inspiring enough , easy enough , sporty enough , special enough  ...... for all the people who before thought the 911's were too  '' sporty ''  . I don't know how long it will take to reach all these new customers , but one's they find out , they will be so happy to switch form their AMG's , Audi RS5 , BMW M's  to this car . 

    Problem could be the price , though . 

    As to the ex- 911 lovers , they are pushed to get GT xxx   as the line is getting bigger and more versatile . 

    But , again , the problem could be the silly prices ........ 

    Very well said...price is insane. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    nberry:

    A true sport car is fun to drive at any speed. It should be electrifying to drive. It should arouse the passion as soon as you turn the key. Recently with the 911 Porsche in its quest to attract a larger audience has compromised the very attributes which made the 911 special. 

    Smiley 

    Today the 911 is quiet, comfortable and fast. Its styling changes very little and one is hard pressed to distinguish between model years. It reminds of another car on the market today. Tesla. I could not see myself buying another 911 that isn’t a GT model.

    Maybe the whole 992 Carrera and comfort thingie is intentional? Porsche seems to try to expand the GT model line, so it would make sense but the prices got out of hand in my opinion, especially for the Carrera models.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Porsche strategy makes a lot of sense. They will extract maximum $$$ for it.

    What was lost in the process? People who were looking for value in a nimble fun practical sport car. That car does not exist anymore.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    What does a Tesla Roadster cost?  A Huracan Performente?  


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    SciFrog:

    Porsche strategy makes a lot of sense. They will extract maximum $$$ for it.

    What was lost in the process? People who were looking for value in a nimble fun practical sport car. That car does not exist anymore.

    Sadly this is 100 percent correct.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    The Heritage models with basket weave trim, perforated ivory headliner, corduroy seat inserts and Exclosive sisal floor mats will be stupidly priced. If they have all of those 60s 70s trim bits the engine on start up better sound like something other than a Subaru on mute.

    Porsche with the 992 seems to want to conquer the Benz SL market but with greater profit. 

    The 992 is spectacularly overpriced. Who knows what a 992 GT 3 will cost.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Mercedes doesn’t sell a lot of SL’s anymore. I loved the R129, but they seem to have really gone backwards in terms of units sold. Just saying...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Wonderbar:

    What does a Tesla Roadster cost?  A Huracan Performente?  

    Could be vapor ware still but base price is $200k. Unless they depart from the other models, $210k should get you anything you want/need in terms of feature, wheels and colors. The equivalent 991.2 TTS cab is $208k without anything fancy like carbon, and the roadster should be 1.5s+ faster in the quarter mile. How it would handle is a mystery. That said rumored top speed is 250mph vs 205 for the Porsche. So on some aspects, they are not even in the same category, the Tesla coud actually be a bargain and seat 4 people... Specs as of today are hypercar territory, except the weight (4,200lbs?).

    The more I read about it, the more I want to put a deposit. But since I don’t want an early production one for obvious reasons...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    996FourEss:

    Mercedes doesn’t sell a lot of SL’s anymore. I loved the R129, but they seem to have really gone backwards in terms of units sold. Just saying...


    I think the AMG GT models have killed the SL. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    SciFrog:

    Daily driver sport cars.

    You are the delusional one my friend. The Tesla Roadster is completely a DIRECT competitor of the regular models of the 911. Have you read people’s comments above? The 992 is a muted no emotion evolution that fits a safer more confortable driving style. Maybe we should move this to the Roadster thread though... And for the record I was not the one to bring Tesla in this thread angry

    Most of all the Tesla Roadster is a phantasy not a car you can buy...

    Seriously, the 992 is the perfect package for people who don't need more space and who want to have the best technology in the best handling car every single day. I cannot think of any alternatives for myself. I just hope the turbo s will be available early next spring. 650hp is enough, given all the perfect technology this car offers as a daily driver Smiley


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Rossi:
    996FourEss:

    Mercedes doesn’t sell a lot of SL’s anymore. I loved the R129, but they seem to have really gone backwards in terms of units sold. Just saying...


    I think the AMG GT models have killed the SL. Smiley

    I think the SLK and SLC models have killed the SL. The SL style and image which was very high since the 60s was devalued by these miniature roadsters.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    https://presse.porsche.de/prod/presse_pag/PressResources.nsf/Content?ReadForm&languageversionid=992655&pid=927D7789DA2C4F99C125753500649300

    This type of development and commitment to racing continues to make me admire Porsche...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    4.2L


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    a "Silhouette" racing car bearing a resemblance to  the 911 production car.

    I feel happier when the GT3 R cars win.

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    reginos:
    Rossi:
    996FourEss:

    Mercedes doesn’t sell a lot of SL’s anymore. I loved the R129, but they seem to have really gone backwards in terms of units sold. Just saying...


    I think the AMG GT models have killed the SL. Smiley

    I think the SLK and SLC models have killed the SL. The SL style and image which was very high since the 60s was devalued by these miniature roadsters.

    I think the main thing killing the SL is the SL.  The styling has been downhill, way way downhill , since the totally gorgeous R230 (2001–2008) variant.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Agree. the R129 was the last decently styled SL, with the traditional sober elegance.

     


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Bruno Sacco was brilliant. Has been downhill from there.... w210. A disaster not to mention shoddy construction. W211. Not much better. W212. Best look as a taxi. W213. Ok and great as a 63, but window line too high, dash too slab sided,....

    i don’t know but maybe I am getting old... I still think that the original E500 was one of the greatest cars ever, design was perfect with those extra rounded wheel arches, on a relative basis to everything else back then,  just miles ahead even of the M5 and E63 of today (sorry RC)...

     

    ...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    DaveChapin:
    reginos:
    Rossi:
    996FourEss:

    Mercedes doesn’t sell a lot of SL’s anymore. I loved the R129, but they seem to have really gone backwards in terms of units sold. Just saying...


    I think the AMG GT models have killed the SL. Smiley

    I think the SLK and SLC models have killed the SL. The SL style and image which was very high since the 60s was devalued by these miniature roadsters.

    I think the main thing killing the SL is the SL.  The styling has been downhill, way way downhill , since the totally gorgeous R230 (2001–2008) variant.

    Well, I think we all have valid points here. So the killing of the SL was a mixture of AMG GT, SLK, SLC and design flaws of the recent SL-versions. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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