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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    This is the direction the styling for the new Panamera should go, but I am afraid the new Panamera may be closer to the existing one than this Mission E.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    No chance a production car will be less than $200k with the announced specs...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    ​if you shorten it to a 911 wheel base, remove the front and side gills and  insert iconic  ovoid upright front lamps , visualize 21 inch vs the impractical  " 30 inch " diameter car show- only wheels , it looks basically like a current 991 wide body with a modern interpretation of the thin " straight across the back " 1980s tailights 

    otoh, the interior is very different ...but if you took away the outer two gauges of the instrument pod, it is basically a generic modern bauhaus design that could be for ANY euro luxury level " sporty " car  coming next generation ...more so a non- " sports" car . Looks way more like a 2019 Audi or BMW than a possible future look at the " 992 " insides .

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Mercedes held some shares on the tesla battery development and pulled out last year.

    i also read somewhere that the german car industry does not believe the future to lie in battery powered cars.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    intouch1:

    i also read somewhere that the german car industry does not believe the future to lie in battery powered cars.

    Nokia also never believed smartphones would be the future ........

    The industry might not believe it but the public is reacting very well to the full electric cars . They are just a bit too expensive for the moment .


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery ...soon !


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    Tesla design is dull and anonymous, they look derivative and Korean.

    The Tesla S design is actually genius in my opinion. It is timeless and neutral, something which is very difficult to achieve with a "mass production" product (OK, the Tesla S isn't exactly mass production but you get my point).

    This is actually what I like about the Tesla S design: It doesn't impress me, it doesn't offend me, it doesn't tickle my senses, it doesn't move me, nothing. It is plain and simple, very nice touch. Of course this is not a car which you can show off with the design but the technology used. I think this was Elon Musk's intention all the way. The new Tesla X is a different story though, this thing is ugly, don't know why. Maybe the target audience, whoever this may be, likes this kind of design. Looking at similar SUVs in the US and in Europe, Elon Musk may be right again here. I prefer a more aggressive or styled approach to SUVs. The new Escalade looks fantastic (for a SUV), especially the front is very aggressive and massive. Range Rover also makes some nice SUV designs, so does Mercedes with the classic G class (not a fan of the new SUV models though but they are stylish). The Cayenne is a bit boring but maybe this is the intention, not to provoke (anymore). I remember how people reacted when we had the 955. Smiley

    To change the exterior design of the Tesla S wouldn't really be a challenge, the technology under the shell is the challenge, so I think that Tesla is fine here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    intouch1:

    Mercedes held some shares on the tesla battery development and pulled out last year.

    i also read somewhere that the german car industry does not believe the future to lie in battery powered cars.

    BMW invested a lot into hydrogen powered car development but Mercedes and Audi seem to go the battery powered way. Hydrogen would have the advantage that you basically fill up your car at a fuel station like before and there isn't much difference, also classic engines could be used.

    However, just currently, the German government announced that they would promote electric cars with free parking space (special license plates, so you don't have to pay or you can park your e-car in a reserved space), lower taxes and even some monetary incentives. 

    So my guess is that electric cars are going to become something very normal in German daily traffic (unlike in the US, where you can already see many Teslas or hybrids like the Prius...I see may one Prius a year in Germany Smiley).

    I looked at a fully optioned Tesla S (140k EUR) just recently, was thinking about getting one for my business (promoting a green image, bla bla bla). Not worth it. Actually, it would cost me basically the same (lease) money a McLaren 650S would cost me. This is insane. From time to time, there are special offers but mostly for basic Tesla S models. Sorry, not interesting enough for me (yet).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    There are Teslas on display at Canary Wharf this week. I took a look at one last night .. interior looks OK, but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity. 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    There are Teslas on display at Canary Wharf this week. I took a look at one last night .. interior looks OK, but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity

    This is the typical US car feel, no need to worry. Smiley Smiley

    Drive one, you will like it (unless you drive down some curvy country roads...) but this is not a car for having fun but a car to enjoy the ride comfort and flaunt a certain technology.

    I would keep a Tesla S85 as my fifth or sixth car in the garage (if I could afford so many cars) but I would never buy one as my single car. Never ever.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:
    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    There are Teslas on display at Canary Wharf this week. I took a look at one last night .. interior looks OK, but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity

    This is the typical US car feel, no need to worry. Smiley Smiley

    Drive one, you will like it (unless you drive down some curvy country roads...) but this is not a car for having fun but a car to enjoy the ride comfort and flaunt a certain technology.

    I would keep a Tesla S85 as my fifth or sixth car in the garage (if I could afford so many cars) but I would never buy one as my single car. Never ever.

    "Curvy country roads" are pretty much unavoidable in the UK outside of major city centres, which might explain why I never see any Teslas here. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:
    sfo:

    but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity

    This is the typical US car feel, no need to worry. Smiley Smiley

    that's it!

    like the rental cars I drive in the US .. albeit slightly nicer


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Conrad2:
    palenimbus:
    SciFrog:

    Building cheer batteries will only last a few years. Then someone will make them for even cheaper. But the Gen 3 smaller priced cars will be Tesla bread and butter, they won't be able to compete with luxury german and japans auto makers.

    Tesla will have the largest Battery factory in the world by a very large margin, equal to all the battery factories combined in 2014. They also have a very comprehensive supercharger network and many would argue they are the leader in Electric car technology.

    If I was the luxury German CEOs I would take Tesla very seriously and not dismiss them the same way Nokia dismissed Apple and Google. Silicon Valley companies have incredible amounts of resources. Tesla's stockmarket capitalization is more than 30 Billion dollars already. 

    Agree the German CEO's should take them seriously.  Just test drove the P85D with the Ludicrous option (0-60 in 2.8 sec.) and will be trading my 2015 S550 in on one this Friday.  A stunning car. Only thing the S550 has over it is the additional interior volume.  The interior fit and finish of the newest models are close enough to Mercedes as to be a wash for me.  Acceleration is almost breath taking, fully equal to 12C's I have owned in the past up to one hundred or so which is all I really care about.  The S550 felt a bit like a barge driving home from the test drive.  The two cars weigh about the same, but the Mercedes feels much heavier when driving.  Tesla feels glued to the road with its low center of gravity.

    Exactly what I predict, just like Lexus shook up MB and BMW in the early 90s, Telsa can shake up the luxury market again. For sports cars it is the experience, I love driving my R8 with a manual transmission, it is involving, there is no time to have a coffee, text or smoke (not that I do any of these when I am driving), that is where I think the sports car manufacturers are missing the mark. Just finished driving an Audi S4 loaner for a few days as well as test driving an AMG GLA45, both super fast, but there is nothing as nice as shifting. With both of cars, I had to look what gear I was in and in the end I  just put it sport automatic mode! I have not driven a GT3 with PDK Sport, but I would hope that it is more involving than MBs or Audis.

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    AJ:
    For sports cars it is the experience, I love driving my R8 with a manual transmission, it is involving, there is no time to have a coffee, text or smoke (not that I do any of these when I am driving), that is where I think the sports car manufacturers are missing the mark.

    Agree and I think the R8's gated shifter is the best one - shame that it's gone now.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The future is all electric cars with a few hybrids here and there, no doubt.

    The model X can do 0-60 in 3.3s if you didn't know. The regular X can do it in 3.8, it smokes even the Cayenne TTS and the ludicrous mode puts in a whole other segment beating even the 991. Initial price all loaded is $132k before rebates, a normal one will be around $95k. It seats 7 and still has room in the back AND in the front. It is easy to get in and out the third row without moving the middle seats and you can stand inside the car to attach you child in a seat. On the downside you cannot have a panoramic roof of a roofbox...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Well for what it's worth I like the design of the Tesla S. I think it's timeless and very well proportionate, sporty without being too flashy, and with the right wheels it looks fantastic... IMO. The driving might be a completely different story, I haven't driven one yet so can't comment on that.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I don't believe that Teslas are only for people that don't like driving. I found it very engaging when I wanted it to be, silly grin inducing all too often and when I wanted to relax it was tomb quiet and sedate. It won't be my next daily driver but I could certainly see myself getting one. I agree they aren't beautiful but I would say they are handsome. 

    Oh and I got a friend of mine to pick up a few cases of wine from a shop near him yesterday. Between the front and rear trunk he fit over 15 cases of wine in the car. Try doing THAT with a 5 or 7 or S series...


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    There are Teslas on display at Canary Wharf this week. I took a look at one last night .. interior looks OK, but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity. 

    I live in the HQ city of Tesla , Palo Alto ,CA and I can assure you that many,many of its owners here are serious knowledgable  car guys with collections that would make your jaws pop open ! 

     don't compare it to " leafy " areas away from the center of the tech universe

     

    dont judege it by its own merits as purly a competitive car ....judge it by the way it pampers current owners in a way that makes local Mercedes delaers feel like WalMart and  who have loyal following and have pre bought  many many of the coming 130k SUV ...which BTW looks very impressive in our local showroom !


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    MKW:
    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    I live in the HQ city of Tesla , Palo Alto ,CA and I can assure you that many,many of its owners here are serious knowledgable  car guys with collections that would make your jaws pop open ! 

     don't compare it to " leafy " areas away from the center of the tech universe


    I think the same way... I thought the people uninterested in technology drive a Prius. How else would you justify paying more than 100k on an electric car if you don´t see any incentive? 

    Regarding the Mission E, I saw it at the IAA yesterday and come away with mixed feelings. The interior is stunning, no doubt about that. Exterior wise, what irritated me even on the pictures already, are the lines and proportions on the front end. It does look unfinished and lacking proper proportions to me. I could actually imagine that in production form, with more common headlights, the front end will look better than on the concept car. With the Carrera GT and 918, the cars looked stunning in every way as a showcar already. Maybe in this case, Porsche is trying to analyze customers´ reactions since some elements are fairly uncommon for the brand. 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Small addition to the discussion:

    One word:  LMP1

    Porsche has currently the most advanced Hybrid racing lab in the world. They have  an exclusive contract with A123 battery supplier and the tech has evolved enormously in just 18 months. They have been so successful, that both Audi and Toyota will both give up on their current systems  and take up batteries next year.

    It is important not to underestimate the importance that racing has on developing new technologies. As in war, the rate of development in top flight racing is much , much faster than under "normal" conditions.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    +1 Spyderidol


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I think the Mission E is much closer to production than 2019. Just like all the stats which either said less than or more than they are hedging themselves.

    And my PO from the dealer states 2017 model.....I know this is just for a wait list slot but they think its coming much quicker too.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:
    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    There are Teslas on display at Canary Wharf this week. I took a look at one last night .. interior looks OK, but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity

    This is the typical US car feel, no need to worry. Smiley Smiley

    Drive one, you will like it (unless you drive down some curvy country roads...) but this is not a car for having fun but a car to enjoy the ride comfort and flaunt a certain technology.

    I would keep a Tesla S85 as my fifth or sixth car in the garage (if I could afford so many cars) but I would never buy one as my single car. Never ever.

    Once again, the Tesla Model S, based on your statements, remains a niche, limited use vehicle with the only upsides being performance from 0-30 mph and "green" credentials.  However, unlike you, one doesn't view the Tesla as real innovation.  


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    SciFrog:

    The future is all electric cars with a few hybrids here and there, no doubt.

     

    Not at all certain. A few e-cars fine. But I do not see the global fleet being electric and moving the world economy. And let's not even address the impact an e-fleet would have on the grid - currently when a couple of Teslas charge on a supercharger the surrounding area has a brownout...

    The future should be what makes economic sense, subject to reasonable enviro rules. 


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    blush

    2f87a6abfe7e81c68a2c73332f94ffd5.jpg


    --


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

     

    Once again, the Tesla Model S, based on your statements, remains a niche, limited use vehicle with the only upsides being performance from 0-30 mph and "green" credentials.  However, unlike you, one doesn't view the Tesla as real innovation.  

    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_28842354/excitement-questions-mount-tesla-model-x-release

    chose your fanboy brand ...they are all here poaching each others talent and will stoke the next phase of Silicon Valley riches : 

    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_28839904/apples-dmv-talks-point-self-driving-car-ambitions

    VWAG's research set up is just up the road a few freeway exits 

    there is also a mothballed , abandoned former military base across the Bay that is basically its own little fully fenced and gated " ghost town "  that a very smart private entity procurred and is renting out to all these brands to use to test thier self driving cars off public roads  ...pure profit as there are nomaintenance costs ...just someone who mans the gate .

    Alphabet owns a former air base ( Moffit Field ) next door to its world HQ and uses it to test self driving cars and all manner of robotic and drone type devices . It is also where its founders Page and Brin keep their personal 747s ...a pvt landing strip next to the office , LOL. 

    Smiley

     

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I guess we should keep drilling for oil and building pipelines then. 

    I love cars. But I love my kids more and worry about the planet we are leaving behind for them. 

    Power grids need to be updated. Renewables and energy storage should be the priority. 

    A 991.2 GT3 will probably be my last gasoline car. A keeper Smiley


    --

     

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    SportCarGroup:

    blush

    2f87a6abfe7e81c68a2c73332f94ffd5.jpg

    Now we are talking!1442762634657n_man_in_love.gif


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Spyderidol:
    SportCarGroup:

    blush

    2f87a6abfe7e81c68a2c73332f94ffd5.jpg

    Now we are talking!1442762634657n_man_in_love.gif

    a factory Porsche this " hawt " would have a very short spiky sales window in today's ever more crowded new nameplate sports car market ..we are all long term 911 enthusiasts because we find them to be continually " interesting " cars over the natural course of their evolution over the past 5 decades ...OTOH, an all new regular productionn model that evokes " passion " on first gaze could well be  the relationship equivalent of the one night stand.. ..perfectly demonstrated by your choice of emoticon ! 

    someone with the latest Ferrari AND Porsche $259- 350k sports car in their near future garage are looking for " similar but different " experiences and most likely prefer they each retain their unique priceless brand identities developed over their parallel 60 yr histories ...their mgmts  definitely think that way ...but as a precauition, look how Lambo has struggled for 45 yrs pitching their equivalent against the latest midV8 Ferrari ..even if test number occasionally best the latter ...I am sure Porsche higher ups are well aware . In particular, if the 250-300k Porsche depreciates like a price equiv Lambo  vs a midV8 Ferrari a year or two out, it will the end of it 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    folks forget that making batteries for cars requires use of lots of toxic materials which have to be recycled or disposed of later

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    folks forget that making batteries for cars requires use of lots of toxic materials which have to be recycled or disposed of later

     

    no one cares.......if we all cared so much about the environment , we should immediately stop all new car production for 10 years and just use all the millions and millions of cars worldwide that  still have billions  of useful miles in them since they have already " burned  " their carbon footprint of every piece fom raw material , manuf, transport, assembly, shipping ...etc.,etc. right  ? 

     

    of course the economies of the world will come to a instant complete halt with massive worldwide social discord and the end of civil humanity within a couple years max...so net earth wil be " cleaner " a few thousand or so years earler than the next ice age or comet strike ...but in the long view of the next 3 billion years until our sun expands and incernates it..it doesnt mean squat to this 3rd rock from the sun

    does  anyone here really care about our grandchildren's grandchildren ?

    conversely, does anyone here care to know  our grandparents's grandparents ? 


     
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