Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    tony2006 said:Further, I really think any more power in a rear-engined car is going to make it more dangerous to handle. Porsche needs to cure the handling issue first before adding more power.



    Have you driven a 997 Turbo? It has AWD, you know, and still doesn't have enough power to smoke all 4 wheels.

    It was "livened up" on purpose to entertain critics that said the previous 996 Turbo didn't have enough over-steer. Apparently, the really forgiving handling present in the 996 Turbo didn't sell well enough to leave alone. The 997 Turbo was diddled by Porsche to make it more "entertaining" to drive.

    It's got absolutely nothing to do with "curing" the rear-engined design to eliminate bad handling. That was already done many years ago. It's got everything to do with the buyers' focus-grouped handling preferences. More people apparently like it to handle the way it now does.



    W8MM, I agree with your comment. Porsche has no handling issues to resolve and yes there are many that love to drive the P-car just the way it is. The old 911's in the 80's were a challenge to drive; one simple mistake and the car would be over it's limits but people just loved the 911 and it's performance + handling characteristics. In 1980 the Porsche dealer in Michigan (when I was in college) told me that 1 out of every 5 911's sold come back to the dealer within 6 months because of an accident.

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:

    Amazing Porsche can sell any car considering how bad their cars are...
    Oh wait, aren't they most profitable car manufacturers in the world



    Again I agree. However, Porsche sold 100,000 911's last year and now my '06 997 has devalued as quick as a Nissan ever did...



    Cars are not an investment, they are either a toy or a tool or both. Depreciation is inevitable no matter what you drive. Enjoy and don't sweat the $$$$$$, spend it

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    edz said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:

    Amazing Porsche can sell any car considering how bad their cars are...
    Oh wait, aren't they most profitable car manufacturers in the world



    Again I agree. However, Porsche sold 100,000 911's last year and now my '06 997 has devalued as quick as a Nissan ever did...



    Cars are not an investment, they are either a toy or a tool or both. Depreciation is inevitable no matter what you drive. Enjoy and don't sweat the $$$$$$, spend it



    Exactly! If you want a car that does not depreciate quickly, you can always join the Ferrari jump through hoops to get on the merry go round that takes over a year wait or buying used first or paying a massive over MSRP Premium. It could be worse, have you seen the depreciation curves on a Maseratti or AMG?

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    W8MM said:

    It's got absolutely nothing to do with "curing" the rear-engined design to eliminate bad handling. That was already done many years ago. It's got everything to do with the buyers' focus-grouped handling preferences. More people apparently like it to handle the way it now does.



    Yes, but that was when Porsche had it their own way and were the leaders in terms of performance etc, they could afford to mess around with the dynamics of the car and provide that extra "drivers" requirement. Do you not think they will have to change tact?

    The original point I made was getting the back out slows the lap time down. When reviewers of these cars are comparing lap times to say which is quicker round x circuit do you not think they should be taking the fastest lines and resist the temptation to showboat? I do. Then if they want to show what "fun" you can have in the car by all means show how we'd all like to drive.

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Just for the record I didn't buy my car as an investment. Call me naive but I didn't expect the dealers to show no financial support whatsoever if I wanted to trade my car in for another one, even though their sales pitch led me to believe they would. Quite frankly they couldn't care less it would appear.

    I've also been chastised for the amount of miles I'm putting on the car. Every salesman I talk to thinks my car being 18 months old should only have 10,000 miles on it! I bought it to drive it I'm afraid and perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to PX it for another. Valuable lesson learned, but I ain't taking any notice of em regardless

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    tony2006 said:Further, I really think any more power in a rear-engined car is going to make it more dangerous to handle. Porsche needs to cure the handling issue first before adding more power.



    Have you driven a 997 Turbo? It has AWD, you know, and still doesn't have enough power to smoke all 4 wheels.

    It was "livened up" on purpose to entertain critics that said the previous 996 Turbo didn't have enough over-steer. Apparently, the really forgiving handling present in the 996 Turbo didn't sell well enough to leave alone. The 997 Turbo was diddled by Porsche to make it more "entertaining" to drive.

    It's got absolutely nothing to do with "curing" the rear-engined design to eliminate bad handling. That was already done many years ago. It's got everything to do with the buyers' focus-grouped handling preferences. More people apparently like it to handle the way it now does.



    Sorry Mike that does not make any sense. An automobile manufacturer modifying a car in accordance to focus group wishes thereby making it less safe in handling?

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:




    And a Mitsubishi Evo XX or something might probably beat a Lambo or Ferrari. How many people would consider it though?
    I am old enough to remember all the japanese Porsche- beaters: Nissan ZXs, Toyota Supras, Honda NSXs etc etc. They have all vanguished because they did not have the depth of the original affordable supercar, the 911. Another problem with many Japanese cars is their aesthetics that are very asian and I am not saying this in a derogatory manner.It is just that they don't appeal so much to the rest of the world.



    I agree. However, this isn't about looks, it's about performance isn't it?



    Ah, but there's the tricky part... its only about performance until you lose the argument for your favourite brand, then we need to find something else to aim the arguments at. I find it amusing that so many pore over nano-seconds of N-ring times for every new performance car, until... gasp... the Japanese show up with really smart engineers and... lots of research money!! Then... we hear that anyway, we don't really make decisions by looking at N-ring lap times, because the Japanese car is ugly after all... It all starts to sound a bit schizophrenic.

    Lets admit it, we admire and buy special cars because of some impossible to define combination of performance, aesthetics, and perceived brand appeal.... back to the OT, kudos for Nissan for what they have accomplished and let the market decide how to reward them.

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    nberry said:Sorry Mike that does not make any sense. An automobile manufacturer modifying a car in accordance to focus group wishes thereby making it less safe in handling?



    I'm speaking of the chassis characteristics when driven at 9.5 tenths. Ferraris are never driven above 7 tenths by their owners, so you won't know what I'm talking about

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    ResB said:The original point I made was getting the back out slows the lap time down.



    Yes,... maybe.

    I've posited in other posts that running the rear tires at higher slip angles than are comfortable for ordinarily skilled drivers is a technique to get the last hundredth of a g of cornering power out of the car. I first observed this phenomenon while driving a Mercedes 190E 2.3-16V at Hockenheim many years ago. But, it's tricky to not over-do the higher rear slip angles while driving.

    Professional racers and test drivers can get the benefit, but those of lesser skill sets often mess up and over-do the rear slip and go slower, instead of faster, as a result.

    It's up to you to decide if the driver in question was up to the task.

    Re: CAR: Nissan GT-R v Porsche 911 Turbo video

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:Sorry Mike that does not make any sense. An automobile manufacturer modifying a car in accordance to focus group wishes thereby making it less safe in handling?



    I'm speaking of the chassis characteristics when driven at 9.5 tenths. Ferraris are never driven above 7 tenths by their owners, so you won't know what I'm talking about



    You are bad

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 1/19/18 10:13 PM
    throt
    263655 1687
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 1/23/18 8:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    260593 4024
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/24/18 2:04 AM
    Grant
    89759 1402
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 1/12/18 7:11 PM
    the-missile
    67527 673
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 1/3/18 8:32 PM
    CGX car nut
    39875 468
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 11/28/17 12:15 AM
    EnglishManInNY
    23926 332
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 12/1/17 7:24 PM
    crayphile
    13729 243
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 718 GTS models (Oct. 2017) 10/24/17 12:19 PM
    amazon
    7291 19
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    548417 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    456625 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 10/26/17 1:33 PM
    NSXER
    446383 4239
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche Carrera 911 [991.2] Facelift 3/24/17 12:49 PM
    RCA
    254981 1382
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 1/4/18 9:14 PM
    wurlie
    247604 2558
    Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 3/15/17 10:40 PM
    noone1
     
     
     
     
     
    231293 737
    Porsche Cayman GT4 12/30/17 11:07 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    213276 2482
    Porsche 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip Thread Closed 7/3/17 2:04 PM
    RCA
    175537 1699
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 11/13/17 2:32 AM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    165152 874
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    164506 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 1/23/18 10:26 PM
    crayphile
    141394 1231
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 1/24/18 2:08 AM
    Grant
    139016 2858
    Porsche 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed 3/7/17 11:47 AM
    RCA
    125036 1651
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 12/29/17 8:31 AM
    dreamcar
    110809 692
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    108111 1284
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 1/18/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    105677 1869
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 12/5/17 3:29 PM
    RCA
    87271 765
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    81722 732
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 7/10/17 2:36 PM
    RCA
    81485 861
    Porsche 991 GTS 4/3/17 4:27 PM
    bluelines
    68500 247
    Porsche OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014 3/2/17 4:22 PM
    RCA
    67179 163
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 (facelift) Carrera 4 and Carrera 4S 3/30/17 7:33 PM
    Carlos from SpainM
    60368 131
    370 items found, displaying 1 to 30.