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    Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    After all the "talk," think I'd better try the tires myself. Smiley For the summer I plan to install either Pirelli Corso or Michelin Cup. Questions please:

    1. For those who have had both Pirelli and Michelin: which one has the softer ride? And which one is more quiet?

    2. What pressures do you run front and rear for street driving? Is it at a range that will trigger a TPMS low pressure alarm? If so, what do you do to turn it off?

    3. I've read repeated comments that Pirelli is better in the wet than Michelin. True? (I do plan to switch to the regular street tire after the summer, when it starts raining here in Southern Cal.)

    4. Any difference between Michelin NO and N1?

    Car is primarily street use, with weekend drives in canyon roads at a little higher speed. Any advice would be welcome (Not the type the says  "don't use it" though. LOL) & thanks in advance.


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Good question Can, I too am interested in the answer.

    I have found that people advocating the Pirrelli as being the best in the wet are always comparing with the old Michelin Cups not the latest generation N0 and N1 so please any knowledgable replies make sure they are talking about the latest Michelin Cup + N0/N1.

    My extensive experience in the wet with the Mich is that they are very very good and on a par with PS2s unless it is standing water in which case you need to go slow, sub 50mph or you will aquaplane.......


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    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:

     

    4. Any difference between Michelin NO and N1?

     

     

     This 4th question is the problem... N0 has been discontinued, N1 is the new Porsche spec - and the new N1 tires look very different from the old N0 version. Thus, all experience available in the sports car field is history Smiley Anyhow, first drivers test the N1 version now (PorscheJeck for example, I will also get the N1 Cups installed in about 2-3 weeks time). In some more weeks there should be reliable answers to all of your above questions Smiley


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Markus, how about Michelin N0 versus Pirelli? Any comment regarding

    a. ride,
    b. noise, and
    c. wet performance

    between these 2 please?

    I would also be very interested in your comments of N0 versuse N1. My local tire store has leftover N0. Thanks in advance.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Can, there is a thread about Pirelli Corsas and Trofeos on sportscar board. Check it out.


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    MKSGR:
    cannga:

     

    4. Any difference between Michelin NO and N1?

     

     

     This 4th question is the problem... N0 has been discontinued, N1 is the new Porsche spec - and the new N1 tires look very different from the old N0 version. Thus, all experience available in the sports car field is history Smiley Anyhow, first drivers test the N1 version now (PorscheJeck for example, I will also get the N1 Cups installed in about 2-3 weeks time). In some more weeks there should be reliable answers to all of your above questions Smiley

    I have put 3000 miles on N1s (the new 245 RS fronts and 325 rear) and embarrassingly cannot tell any difference from the N0s of which I have got through 2 sets Smiley

    PS how do they look different ? The only difference I can see is the fronts have a "+" on the sidewall and they are both marked N1 ?


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    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    The tread pattern is different, isn't it? If you compare the tread pattern the new version seems to have a more "open" pattern at the outer side of the tires, probably supporting water transportation. Unfortunately, I just checked my N1 tires at the dealer - they are not installed yet. Otherwise I could have done some comparison pictures (our M3 has the "old" Cup tires installed).

    Comparing N0 Cup and Pirelli Corsa I would habe said that the Corsa's are less critical on wet track in combination with low temperatures. As you point out above the Cups are also more prone to acquaplaning. The Corsas are more durable, slightly more comfortable. The noise level is difficult to judge - a proper sportscar makes that much noise that tire noise is only a minor issue Smiley


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:

     

    Car is primarily street use, with weekend drives in canyon roads at a little higher speed. Any advice would be welcome (Not the type the says  "don't use it" though. LOL) & thanks in advance.

     

     

     Thinking about your post again I would probably go for the Corsas. For street use they are probably the better choice - over all. The Cups are best for track use Smiley


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    TB993tt:

    I have put 3000 miles on N1s (the new 245 RS fronts and 325 rear) and embarrassingly cannot tell any difference from the N0s of which I have got through 2 sets Smiley

    PS how do they look different ? The only difference I can see is the fronts have a "+" on the sidewall and they are both marked N1 ?

     


    Kreso, thanks. Toby, if I understand your question correctly, the N-0 should be marked N-0, no? The first generation of any given tire is N-0, then with subsequent revisions for newer cars or for whatever reason, N-1, N-2, and so on. (I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

    Just got a reply from my "local" tire shop, Wheels Enhancement (could/should be trusted - these guys are either no. 1 or 2 in the US in Porsche tire sales and they know tires). The answer is remarkably consistent with Markus's and Toby's (no difference) comments. Smiley

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The Pirelli does have a slightly softer ride and is just a bit quieter than the Pilot Sport Cup’s and they do wear longer than the Michelin’s.
     
    The current Pilot Sport Cup tire for the 2008 GT3 is the N0 version, the N1 version was introduced late last year for the new 2010 997 GT3. We do not know what the difference is between the two versions of the Pilot Sport Cup tires, this is information that is not published by Porsche or Michelin…we do not believe that there is much difference (if any) as far as handling, ride and noise is concerned.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    BTW in the US, Corsa is $2500, Michelin N1 $2200, Michelin N0 $2100.


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:
    I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

     

     

    On the other hand, it would appear to be reasonable to assume that the manufacturers concerned would not make retrograde steps in the evolution of their products, so the newest should be the best?  Smiley


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    fritz


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    fritz:
    cannga:
    I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

     

    On the other hand, it would appear to be reasonable to assume that the manufacturers concerned would not make retrograde steps in the evolution of their products, so the newest should be the best?  Smiley


     

    Sure Fritz (You always seem to "see" what I am thinking; note I wrote "revisions for new cars or for whatever reason." ). We are missing one key data point, and that is, did N-1 come out because

    a. Porche requesting a new tire for the new GT3, or
    b. Michelin revising N-0, independent of the new car, because it sees room for improvement.


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:
    fritz:
    cannga:
    I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

     

    On the other hand, it would appear to be reasonable to assume that the manufacturers concerned would not make retrograde steps in the evolution of their products, so the newest should be the best?  Smiley


     

    Sure Fritz (You always seem to "see" what I am thinking; note I wrote "revisions for new cars or for whatever reason." ). We are missing one key data point, and that is, did N-1 come out because

    a. Porche requesting a new tire for the new GT3, or
    b. Michelin revising N-0, independent of the new car, because it sees room for improvement.

     

    Well, since the relevant tire manufacturers only use "N" designations for tires developed with Porsche and for specific Porsche models the answer has to be (a), but if they could not improve on the previous model, why change it?

     

     


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    fritz


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    fritz:
    cannga:
    fritz:
    cannga:
    I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

     

    On the other hand, it would appear to be reasonable to assume that the manufacturers concerned would not make retrograde steps in the evolution of their products, so the newest should be the best?  Smiley


     

    Sure Fritz (You always seem to "see" what I am thinking; note I wrote "revisions for new cars or for whatever reason." ). We are missing one key data point, and that is, did N-1 come out because

    a. Porche requesting a new tire for the new GT3, or
    b. Michelin revising N-0, independent of the new car, because it sees room for improvement.

     

    Well, since the relevant tire manufacturers only use "N" designations for tires developed with Porsche and for specific Porsche models the answer has to be (a), but if they could not improve on the previous model, why change it?

     

     

    Not sure I understand the point above? Anyway, the answer *could* be b because I do not believe that every N change coincides with a new Porsche car, or vice versa. From this particular site, for example, the implication *seems* to be that the change could come from Michelin, and then re-tested by Porsche.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    http://p-car.com/technical/tires.htm

    (Note:  much of this information was obtained from the 1995 and 1996 Porsche Service Bulletins and the March '98 issue of "Christophorus")

    I don't know if you are aware of it, but Porsche does extensive testing on the tires that go on their cars.  This involves high speed testing at either the Nurburgring or Mugello race tracks, plus lab testing of maximum speed, wet traction, wear, and noise.  For information, when a tire is approved by Porsche, it then will receive what I characterize as an "N" stamp, such as "N0", "N1", "N2", etc.  Only tires approved by Porsche will receive these ratings.  There is no real difference between an N0 or N1 rating; this simply means that when a manufacturer makes a change to a tire ***and Porsche re-tests it***, the new rating for that tire changes from N0 to N1, for example.


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:
    fritz:
    cannga:
    fritz:
    cannga:
    I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

     

    On the other hand, it would appear to be reasonable to assume that the manufacturers concerned would not make retrograde steps in the evolution of their products, so the newest should be the best?  Smiley


     

    Sure Fritz (You always seem to "see" what I am thinking; note I wrote "revisions for new cars or for whatever reason." ). We are missing one key data point, and that is, did N-1 come out because

    a. Porche requesting a new tire for the new GT3, or
    b. Michelin revising N-0, independent of the new car, because it sees room for improvement.

     

    Well, since the relevant tire manufacturers only use "N" designations for tires developed with Porsche and for specific Porsche models the answer has to be (a), but if they could not improve on the previous model, why change it?

     

     

    Not sure I understand the point above.  

    What I meant to say was, if there was already a set of "N" designated tires available in the appropriate front and rear dimensions for a particular model, then the only valid reason for introducing a new set in the same dimensions and a new N-number would be if there was some kind of performance improvement.
    But when I started writing that it dawned on me that along with the new N-no they probably also introduced new tire sizes which had not previously been available with N designations at all.  Is that right? Smiley

     


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    fritz


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    I am not sure Fritz. I am google searching and questioning right along with you.

    In the case of this particular Michelin N-1, just from the timing, if true (released at same time as 2010 GT3) then I do suspect very much the N-1 was designed for 2010 GT3. That is, answer "a" in this case.
    Walter what's-his-name has mentioned on more than one occasions that tire wall stiffness must match suspension, more specifically spring rates, and I don't remember where, but do *vaguely* recall reading that there were multiple revisions to 997.1 GT3's suspension, including the spring rates.

    Whatever the change, it *appears* to be minor though. It does disturb me a little bit if it's true that as a new N version is released for newer cars, older N's for older cars are discontinued.


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Someone told me to look up Bridgestone RE-11. Attractive at half the cost, until I looked up the weights (lbs, for 235/35r19 and 305/30r19). Holy bat weights!  :-)  I think I *will* pass.

    Michelin Cup: front 20 rear 27
    Pirelli Corsa: front 21 rear 26
    Bridgestone Potenza RE-11: front 27 rear 32 Smiley

    Tire Rack Porsche Turbo Tires Search
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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:

    In the case of this particular Michelin N-1, just from the timing, if true (released at same time as 2010 GT3) then I do suspect very much the N-1 was designed for 2010 GT3. That is, answer "a" in this case.
    Walter what's-his-name has mentioned on more than one occasions that tire wall stiffness must match suspension, more specifically spring rates [...]


    The relation of tirewall stiffness and springrates is certainly important and adapted to  various tires and performance demands. Porsche´s N ratings seem to come with higher sidewall stiffness due to the weight distribution on the 911 [possibly along with higher load index]. The suspension is certainly adapted to it.

    The numeric designation refers to the evolutionary state of the tire and goes up to N4 for older tire models /historic Porsche cars. I assume that, as a new tire generation usually features better performance, the arrival of the SportCup in N1 designation on the 997.2 GT3 will contribute to improved handling and laptimes to a certain extend.

    In its tire approvals, the usage of most recent tire models is recommended. Odd to see that the Sport Cup N1 is listed for the 997.1 GT3 but not the Turbo or GT2 [doubting technical reasons for that]. I guess some other members will provide the answer shortly.


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Well now I am even more confused !

    The link provided by Ferdie below says that apparently there are some Cup tires 235 and 325 in an N2 designation and specifies for the GT2 N0 or N2 tyres......

    http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/default.pdf?pool=uk&type=download&id=ueberblicksommerreifen2006-11&lang=none&filetype=default

    This seems to be confirmed by Michelin website which offers N1 for the front and N2 for the back....

    http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/AfficheServlet?Rubrique=20061113094139&Langue=EN

    So I am running the N1 tyres specifically homologated for the GT3RS and Porsche do not specify my 325 N1 s for the rears ! would be great to know what the differences are.....

    Also what does that "+" mean on the 245/30-19 GT3RS tyre ?


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    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    TB993tt:

    Well now I am even more confused !

    The link provided by Ferdie below says that apparently there are some Cup tires 235 and 325 in an N2 designation and specifies for the GT2 N0 or N2 tyres......

    http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/default.pdf?pool=uk&type=download&id=ueberblicksommerreifen2006-11&lang=none&filetype=default

    This seems to be confirmed by Michelin website which offers N1 for the front and N2 for the back....

    http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/AfficheServlet?Rubrique=20061113094139&Langue=EN

    So I am running the N1 tyres specifically homologated for the GT3RS and Porsche do not specify my 325 N1 s for the rears ! would be great to know what the differences are.....

    Also what does that "+" mean on the 245/30-19 GT3RS tyre ?

     That is really confusing Smiley I will also check with my dealer later this afternoon.


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    If one is only contemplating street use then I would think the new Michelin Sport Pilot 3 should be the best tire...have it now on my Audi but to little experience to provide full feedback...


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    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Thanks Ferdie for the helpful link. The plot does thicken...

    Example: Besides the question regarding GT2 that Toby has noted, for the 997 Turbo: Michelin Cup is listed, but not Pirelli Corsa. One wonders if it's only because of some mundane reason, such as someone has not had time to fit the tires on the car to test?

    This thread has helped me quite a bit (think I am going to go with the Pirelli Corsa), at the same time that it brought on even more questions -- primarily involving how and why new N's are generated. Better tire technology, or newer cars, or mixture of both? If for newer cars, are older cars then left with a compromise because original N, such as N-0, are no longer available? Interesting.

    It doesn't help that Michelin or Porsche doesn't release any information regarding the N's. I do believe (hope?) that differences between N's -- of the same tire brand -- are minor, probably not easily noticeable. Or people would have cried foul by now.

    Approved Tires for Porsche Turbo 1200.jpg


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    In 1995 when Porsche intorduced the new 993 turbo it came with the then brand new and cutting edge Bridgestone S02 N0 tyres, they were radical looking with the "V" tread pattern and an awesome tyre. My 993tt had them from new and I was dissapointed when Bridgestone stopped producing this tyre and replaced it with the S02A N1, this tyre had the same wear rating but was visibly completely different.

    Fast forward to around 2005 and Bridgestone reintroduced the original pattern S02 with an N2 designation in 993tt sizes - This new N2 tyre whilst looking the same as the 1995 version boasts the Bridestone UNI-T  technology so was different to the original, I suspect quite a lot different as tyres moved on a lot in 10 years ! My 993tt wears the new S02 N2s currently and they are a thoroughly modern 140 wear rated (so sticky) tyre.

    So from this evidence the N rating can mean a lot, if you got hold of a set of old N0 S02s from 1995 they would likely be totally different to drive compared to the N2s........

    These cup designations - (on the 325/30 X19 they now have N0, N1 and N2 !!!!) are pretty confusing and it would be good to know the differences ?


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    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    cannga:

    Markus, how about Michelin N0 versus Pirelli? Any comment regarding

    a. ride,
    b. noise, and
    c. wet performance

    between these 2 please?

     

    Hi Can, I've been through 2 sets of MPSC N0 and 1.5 sets Smiley of Pirelli Zero Corsa (though on the GT3, I have no own experiences with them on the TT).
    Observations:

    a. ride: the Pirellis are a bit more comfy (I guess MPSC sidewall is stiffer)

    b. noise: both tires are not noisy at all IMHO (almost on par with PS2) - try R888 and you know what a noisy tire sounds like Smiley

    c. wet performance: I agree with Toby - the MPSC N0 are astonishingly good in the wet as long as they are relatively new and not yet too often abused on the track (heat cycles). Wet performance of the Pirellis is more consistent over their lifetime IMHO. MPSC are much more temp sensitive/tire pressure sensitive than Pirellis (MPSC hate cold weather - maybe no prob in sunny California).

    d. performance driving: MPSC are "sharper" at the limit (higher corner speed possible, but also more abrupt loss of grip at the limit).

    e. costs: besides the higher purchase price the Pirellis become even more expensive if you consider that the tires are one-directional. Should be less of a concern if you don't track the car.

    f. N0 vs. N1: hhhmmmm - I tend to agree with Toby, but I guess my case is useless for a "scientific" study, as I still have some N0s on the front wheels (they will go in a couple of weeks and will be replaced with the N1 which I already have since 1,500 km or so on the rears). All I can say so far is that I'm very happy with the grip at the rear. The N1s definitely are not a step back. Still unsure whether they provide a measurable performance advantage. Actually my laptime on the NBR GP-circuit improved a bit this year, but this maybe due to other reasons Smiley

    g. "+" sign on N1s: means absolutely nothing - it's a kind of model designation (maybe to make it harder to mistake the N1 for the N0 tires). Anyway a N1 without the "+" does not exist.

    h. finally the answer you don't want to hear Smiley I'm with TEE: Sport tires don't provide any advantage for street driving - maybe unless your street driving only consists of driving mountain serpentine roads at crazy speed Smiley Otherwise the sport tires (especially MPSC) never gain the required temperature window to show their stickyness. Therefore PS2 usually offer more grip than MPSC for normal street driving. If you're looking for a compromise (dual purpose tire) I'd go for the Pirelli.

     


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    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    TB993tt:

    In 1995 when Porsche intorduced the new 993 turbo it came with the then brand new and cutting edge Bridgestone S02 N0 tyres, they were radical looking with the "V" tread pattern and an awesome tyre. My 993tt had them from new and I was dissapointed when Bridgestone stopped producing this tyre and replaced it with the S02A N1, this tyre had the same wear rating but was visibly completely different.

    Fast forward to around 2005 and Bridgestone reintroduced the original pattern S02 with an N2 designation in 993tt sizes - This new N2 tyre whilst looking the same as the 1995 version boasts the Bridestone UNI-T  technology so was different to the original, I suspect quite a lot different as tyres moved on a lot in 10 years ! My 993tt wears the new S02 N2s currently and they are a thoroughly modern 140 wear rated (so sticky) tyre.

    So from this evidence the N rating can mean a lot, if you got hold of a set of old N0 S02s from 1995 they would likely be totally different to drive compared to the N2s........

     

    Very interesting information.

    Relatively speaking, the coilover change in my car is much more significant than the N tire change, so I won't/shouldn't make a big deal about the different N's. Nevertheless, the discussion is illuminating and somewhat disturbing: Should the "approved tire list" be changed to "AVAILABLE tire list that test "OK"" (since the reason could simply be the older ones are no longer made) ? Smiley


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    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Porsche-Jeck:

     Sport tires don't provide any advantage for street driving - maybe unless your street driving only consists of driving mountain serpentine roads at crazy speed   

     

    Yes, serpentine roads is where the car is on free days and weekends. Although, I won't admit to "crazy speed," but will take  "safe crazy speed.'
    Hmm... or is it "crazy safe speed"?  Whatever! Smiley

    Kidding aside, thanks for the very insightful and helpful tire analysis. I've driven a GT2, and a 2010 GT3 at "safe crazy speed" :-) and have some idea of the potential pitfalls with cup tires.
    But, even if this tire experiment turns out to be a failure (since I drive the car to work every day), I still have to do it, for the so called "life experience" or rather "car life experience." I simply have to learn for myself, knowing what a significant suspension component it is.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Porsche-Jeck:

    g. "+" sign on N1s: means absolutely nothing - it's a kind of model designation (maybe to make it harder to mistake the N1 for the N0 tires). Anyway a N1 without the "+" does not exist.

     

     

     

    Apologies for the pendantry but the "+" designation is only on the 245/35 front tyres which I bought (the fronts made for the GT3RS and the new GT2RS ?) the rears, 325/30 have no "+" marking on them despite being "N1" marked...... this is why I wondered: why the "+" .......all a bit confusing...Smiley

    I haven't tried the Pirrelli as they simply haven't been available in GT2 sizes in the UK, having driven extensively in the wet over this winter I find it hard to critisize any aspect of the Cups apart from as Jeck mentions in extreme cold, especially when driving off in the morning when turning the steering wheel and going straight on is a distinct possibility Smiley

     


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    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    fritz:
    cannga:
    fritz:
    cannga:
    I assume one could argue that the "best" tire for any given car is the generation that it comes out with. For example if the 2008 GT2 was designed and released  with N-0, then therefore N-0 remains the best??)

     

    On the other hand, it would appear to be reasonable to assume that the manufacturers concerned would not make retrograde steps in the evolution of their products, so the newest should be the best?  Smiley


     

    Sure Fritz (You always seem to "see" what I am thinking; note I wrote "revisions for new cars or for whatever reason." ). We are missing one key data point, and that is, did N-1 come out because

    a. Porche requesting a new tire for the new GT3, or
    b. Michelin revising N-0, independent of the new car, because it sees room for improvement.

     

    Well, since the relevant tire manufacturers only use "N" designations for tires developed with Porsche and for specific Porsche models the answer has to be (a), but if they could not improve on the previous model, why change it?

     

     

    Seems Fritz is correct. I just bought magazine 911 & P World and there is a detailed review on the GT3RS with information directly from Preuninger.....

    There is a lot of detail about the suspension and how it is all specific to this model and then turns to the tyres, they (the N1 Michelin and Pirrelli also do specific version) are developed specifically for trhis model and have "slightly taller sidewalls" and "lower overall weight" - there is more, I may scan in tomorrow.....

    Now Porsche have the N2 version (at least for the 325 size) for the GT2 it seems I have the wrong tyres (N1) on my GT2 !!!

    Edit: For maximum confusion, the UK Michelin web site currently recommends N1 and N2 tyres for the GT2..... This is at odds with the Porsche specification above (NO and N2) and with what Preuninger implies by saying they are specific to the GT3 - sorry to go on about this but I don't enjoy the fact that I was attempting to crack 200mph on these N1s a few weeks ago if they are not "approved" Smiley 


    --


     

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    Toby chill out , im sure its just pure Porsche marketing on these , to produce a bigger "wow" factor on the GT3rs

    I mentioned on  rennlist that  the 2010 GT3RS has the same exact factory alignment settings as the 7GT2 !!

    So if the suspension setup is all that diffrent, wont it work better in a diffrent alignment also?

     

     


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    My dealer placed on official request to Porsche Zuffenhausen in order to find out which N version is the recommended version for the GT2. I will post his reply asap Smiley


    Re: Cup tire question pls: Pirelli vs. Michelin -- which one has softer ride?

    MKSGR:

    My dealer placed on official request to Porsche Zuffenhausen in order to find out which N version is the recommended version for the GT2. I will post his reply asap Smiley

    Thanks Marcus Smiley

    Some chump at Michelin UK seems to think the N1's are OK and even front N1s can be mixed with rear N2s Smiley

     


    --


     

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


     
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