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    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    RC:

    On engines, Porsche doesn't offer a warranty only but also some sort of goodwill policy which is usually available up 3-5 years after the car has been bought new.

    There are cases where Porsche paid 50-80% of an engine repair cost even 1-2 years after the warranty expired.

    You can also get an extended warranty when the regular warranty expires. Tuning your car makes it impossible to get this warranty because the dealer needs to check your car and hand over a DME printout/etc. to Porsche.

    I didn't want to sound like a smartass but people need to know the possible consequences.

    Btw: do you guys have life insurance? Health insurance? Insurance against fire/water/etc. damages? Well...why? How likely is it that you need them?  I hope you get my point. 

     

    RC, reasonable argument, but apples to oranges. As Stradale has pointed out, house and health related expenses, at least in the US could very ***easily*** go into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. With advancing age, potential health problems also become more prevalent, more than the chance of a tourist got hit by a car in London, which is the same as the chance of stage 2 car blowing up, IMHO.

    Before I address the rest of RC's post re. extended warranty and the importance of using a tuner with warranty, could anyone confirm if my understanding is correct on the followings:

    1. In Europe, Ruf is the only tuning house that offers a warranty. It lasts one year, and basically Ruf promises to pay for any damage deemed related to the tune.
    2. Ruf warranty does NOT protect your Porsche warranty. Having a Ruf tune also voids your Porsche warranty, just the same as any other tune. In other words, Ruf is not guaranteeing that your Porsche warranty stays in effect; it guarantees to pay for any damage related to the tune.

     


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    cannga:

    1. In Europe, Ruf is the only tuning house that offers a warranty. It lasts one year, and basically Ruf promises to pay for any damage deemed related to the tune.
    2. Ruf warranty does NOT protect your Porsche warranty. Having a Ruf tune also voids your Porsche warranty, just the same as any other tune. In other words, Ruf is not guaranteeing that your Porsche warranty stays in effect; it guarantees to pay for any damage related to the tune.

     

     


     

    RS Tuning give 6 months 5000 miles warranty in writing with specific exclusion for any track driving and stipulation of fuel to be used ie 100RON


    --


     

     

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Thursday & especially Friday were GORGEOUS days here in NY. Both days I left home REALLY early for work so I could avoid traffic...... Top Down. Sport Mode engaged with enhanced rumblings.  First couple of miles, engine gets up to temp. On the parkway now, shift into 4th, open road, nail it! Waaaaahh whoooo!!!!!! You have to be kidding me, maybe they installed the 720 kit by mistake? Laughing out loud in the car by myself!  I can't believe how fast this thing is now. Thing is Cann, I've caught a fever. I'm already eyeing future upgrades. It's interesting what EVOMS says about headers/sizes on their site. 

    btw: What does this mean, I know there's not a warranty ? :

    EVOMS - "We demonstrate our commitment to our Performance Systems / tuning philosophy, that we offer a 1-year, unlimited mileage engine warranty"

    "Our 997TT EVT Performance Systems start at about $3000 and range in price up to about $23,000 for our 700 HP upgrade. All include a 1 – year engine warranty."

    http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/ViewProduct.asp?Now=5%2F1%2F2010+9%3A32%3A53+AM&ProductID={132ABDB1-AD57-4460-A265-5285511F...


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Forget about headers.. Next up should be intercoolers and modded vtgs. Also the carbon pipes offered for the turbos lames a very noticeable difference on spooling. If u can find modded GT2 turbos then go for GT2 intake (which is quite cheap) and then you can go 650-670 european style hp! Had all these (and tobby has similar stuff) and car becomes insane fast while still driveable as stock!

    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    STRADALE:

    Thursday & especially Friday were GORGEOUS days here in NY. Both days I left home REALLY early for work so I could avoid traffic...... Top Down. Sport Mode engaged with enhanced rumblings.  First couple of miles, engine gets up to temp. On the parkway now, shift into 4th, open road, nail it! Waaaaahh whoooo!!!!!! You have to be kidding me, maybe they installed the 720 kit by mistake? Laughing out loud in the car by myself!  I can't believe how fast this thing is now. Thing is Cann, I've caught a fever. I'm already eyeing future upgrades. It's interesting what EVOMS says about headers/sizes on their site. 

    btw: What does this mean, I know there's not a warranty ? :

    EVOMS - "We demonstrate our commitment to our Performance Systems / tuning philosophy, that we offer a 1-year, unlimited mileage engine warranty"

    "Our 997TT EVT Performance Systems start at about $3000 and range in price up to about $23,000 for our 700 HP upgrade. All include a 1 – year engine warranty."

    http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/ViewProduct.asp?Now=5%2F1%2F2010+9%3A32%3A53+AM&ProductID={132ABDB1-AD57-4460-A265-5285511F...


     

     

     


    Congrats Gregg. That's the spirit! A stage 2 tune, any stage 2 tune from a reputable shop will transform this car. Already eyeing future upgrade? That is fast! One does get used to the power but you are supposed to enjoy for a few weeks first! :-)

    I know EVOMS goes to Header as the next level, but as GT mentioned, a true and meaningful next upgrade level is the one that includes an Intercooler in addition to the Header. Header by itself doesn't generate much and could in fact hurt (I'll quote the link later.). In general the 4 levels of power upgrads are like this:

    1. ECU only (aka "stage 1 tune")
    2. ECU and exhaust
    3. ECU, exhaust, and intercooler
    4. ECU, exhaust, intercooler, and larger turbo

     Eventually you need larger throttle body, header, BRV, etc., as well, but the 4 steps above form  the back bone, to the best of my knowledge.

    Intercooler is critical to function of the turbo and tuning (Ask Toby, wait -- you don't have to ask, Toby will jump in any second now. Just kidding Toby.). The guys at GIAC told me this about 20 times while they had my car. They called me the other day and STILL wanted to re-tune my car with an intercooler!

    IMHO, the key to safe and trouble free tuning is to find a trustworthy **local** shop that takes care of any potential problem for you. Do you know of any well know EVOMS dealer in your area? Maybe ask EVOMS?
    A stage 2 tune has 100% safety record (I double dare anyone to prove me wrong Smiley), but as you increase power and hardware, the risk does increase.

     


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    cannga:
    STRADALE:

    Thursday & especially Friday were GORGEOUS days here in NY. Both days I left home REALLY early for work so I could avoid traffic...... Top Down. Sport Mode engaged with enhanced rumblings.  First couple of miles, engine gets up to temp. On the parkway now, shift into 4th, open road, nail it! Waaaaahh whoooo!!!!!! You have to be kidding me, maybe they installed the 720 kit by mistake? Laughing out loud in the car by myself!  I can't believe how fast this thing is now. Thing is Cann, I've caught a fever. I'm already eyeing future upgrades. It's interesting what EVOMS says about headers/sizes on their site. 

    btw: What does this mean, I know there's not a warranty ? :

    EVOMS - "We demonstrate our commitment to our Performance Systems / tuning philosophy, that we offer a 1-year, unlimited mileage engine warranty"

    "Our 997TT EVT Performance Systems start at about $3000 and range in price up to about $23,000 for our 700 HP upgrade. All include a 1 – year engine warranty."

    http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/ViewProduct.asp?Now=5%2F1%2F2010+9%3A32%3A53+AM&ProductID={132ABDB1-AD57-4460-A265-5285511F...


     

     

     


    Congrats Gregg. That's the spirit! A stage 2 tune, any stage 2 tune from a reputable shop will transform this car. Already eyeing future upgrade? That is fast! One does get used to the power but you are supposed to enjoy for a few weeks first! :-)

    I know EVOMS goes to Header as the next level, but as GT mentioned, a true and meaningful next upgrade level is the one that includes an Intercooler in addition to the Header. Header by itself doesn't generate much and could in fact hurt (I'll quote the link later.). In general the 4 levels of power upgrads are like this:

    1. ECU only (aka "stage 1 tune")
    2. ECU and exhaust
    3. ECU, exhaust, and intercooler
    4. ECU, exhaust, intercooler, and larger turbo

     Eventually you need larger throttle body, header, BRV, etc., as well, but the 4 steps above form  the back bone, to the best of my knowledge.

    Intercooler is critical to function of the turbo and tuning (Ask Toby, wait -- you don't have to ask, Toby will jump in any second now. Just kidding Toby.). The guys at GIAC told me this about 20 times while they had my car. They called me the other day and STILL wanted to re-tune my car with an intercooler!

    IMHO, the key to safe and trouble free tuning is to find a trustworthy **local** shop that takes care of any potential problem for you. Do you know of any well know EVOMS dealer in your area? Maybe ask EVOMS?
    A stage 2 tune has 100% safety record (I double dare anyone to prove me wrong Smiley), but as you increase power and hardware, the risk does increase.

     

     

    My Porsche dealer is an EVOMS dealer, that's who did the ECU, my exhaust, etc. Yeah, I should check w/ them about the warranty.

    What EVOMS says on their site makes a lot of sense re: headers, they offer different sized headers based on the kit/other HP mods. They talk about smaller diameter tubing for the 580HP kit & sizes go up for 650-750, 750+. They have 4 different sizes I believe. 500-600, 600-650, 650-750, 750-900. Which would seem to make the most sense considering how headers effect power..  http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Marketplace.asp?Now=5%2F3%2F2010+7%3A45%3A39+AM&ParentID={7827634B-6944-4D94-AECB-B25F5D8D3...

    I like the idea of this step:

    http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/ViewProduct.asp?Now=5%2F3%2F2010+7%3A34%3A51+AM&ProductID={1A8BB8F4-BCB6-4B2D-9112-2CA32EE1...

    I'd take everyone's advice and go w/ the IC's. I wouldn't have to change Turbo's or add the clutch. From where I'm at (ECU/Exhaust,etc) it would only cost about $9k. But you're probably right, I should wait a bit. What I'll probably do is wait till the next service at my dealer to get the other mods done.

    EVOMS:  

    "Different diameter headers will change the exhaust velocity and overall flow from the heads to the turbochargers. Smaller headers can generate a quicker boost response, however, they can cause exhaust “choke” by not allowing enough exhaust volume to sustain higher power levels. Conversely, headers that are too large in diameter can reduce the amount of exhaust velocity causing slower turbocharger boost response and a loss in bottom end power. An optimized header for a specific power application will improve mid range power and torque throughout the entire rev range. Our header designs optimize the exhaust flow through the mandrel bent primary tubes and merge collectors. They have superior flow characteristics compared to the OEM header and are size specific depending on application and desired power. Our headers also maintain the stock amount of ground clearance which eliminates the risk of header damage from a low hanging primary tube which is common for most other aftermarket headers. "

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Also found something interesting re: the BDV's:

     
    Billet Diverter Valves
    SKU:EBDVK90-97.2
    Our direct replacement CNC machined billet aluminum diverter valves eliminate the notorious "Honking" sound commonly heard when the OEM valves have failed. Our valves prevent boost loss, restore lost power and hold more pressure than the stock units for added performance. Additionally, our valves recover quicker than the OEM valves which allows better boost response when running through the gears. We designed our valves with a 90 degree vacuum port which allows for additional vacuum line clearance and a trouble free installation. The EVOMS billet diverter valves for the 997.2TT come as a complete kit and carry our exclusive lifetime warranty.

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    STRADALE:

    My Porsche dealer is an EVOMS dealer, that's who did the ECU, my exhaust, etc. Yeah, I should check w/ them about the warranty.

    ...

    I'd take everyone's advice and go w/ the IC's. I wouldn't have to change Turbo's or add the clutch. From where I'm at (ECU/Exhaust,etc) it would only cost about $9k. But you're probably right, I should wait a bit. What I'll probably do is wait till the next service at my dealer to get the other mods done.

     

    You are doing all the right things: Pick a reputable tuner and stay with his recommendation. What EVOMS says about headers is of course correct -- wide primary tubes offer the best gains in power and torque at higher engine speeds, while narrow tubes offer the best gains at lower speeds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_(automotive_engineering). Changing the header alone shifts the power band, instead of increasing power. That's why I believe the next meaningful step of power upgrade for you should include an intercooler. That, will increase power for sure.

    Re. clutch, the stock clutch is rumored to slip around 550 lbf*ft / 750 N*m. Most cars with a stage 2 (ECU and exhaust) don't need to change clutch, but there have been exceptions. Mine does, and so does a friend's Turbo with EVOMS stage 2. The way to test is to go WOT at 2000 rpm, 5th gear, when it's cool. Also depends on the driver, I drive like a grandma so rarely causes slippage. My tuner could *look* at my car and cause the clutch to slide all over the place.

    A stage 3 (ECU, exhaust, and intercooler) very likely will require a clutch upgrade, unless something is amiss. If you are not prepared to upgrade your clutch, it's not a good idea to go to stage 3, IMHO.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Did you just talk me into Stage 4????? Smiley Seriously if you should replace the clutch w/ Stage 3, w/ the cost/labor/tranny removal , may as well just add the Turbo's, right?

    WOT in 5th? Without shifting? Could you elaborate more?

    EVT 700/720R - 6spd

    Evolution MotorSports new line of “ClubSport” Performance Systems have been designed and tuned from the ground up and 100% in house, utilizing our 9 years of experience working with the water cooled / turbocharged flat 6 / M96.70 and M97.70 engines. Our development goal for the 997TT EVT700 ClubSport (CS) Performance Systems was to further maximize the power of the stock engine with our upgraded VTG turbochargers. We combined our already proven EVT performance technology with our cutting edge new 44mm exhaust headers, 70mm sport exhaust with HJS 200 cpsi catalysts and new high flow turbocharger fresh air inlet ducts. We further optimized the Bosch ME7.8.1 ECU calibration to take advantage of the improved intake and exhaust flow as well as we incorporated our new dual mode chip switching technology.

       

    About the Evolution MotorSports 997TT EVT700 ClubSport:


    • EVOMSit ECU Chip Switch - Utilizes "On The Fly Switching" with 2 X EPROMS
    • EVOMSit EVT720 ClubSport RACE ECU Calibration – 7000 RPM Rev Limit
    • EVOMSit EVT700 ClubSport PUMP ECU Calibration – 7000 RPM Rev Limit
    • EVOMS / SRE Stage 3 Clutch
    • EVOMS High Flow VTG Turbochargers w/ Billet Compressor Wheels
    • EVOMS ClubSport 44.5mm Exhaust Headers
    • EVOMS ClubSport Intercoolers (charge coolers) w/ Silicone Boost Hoses
    • EVOMS High Flow Silicone Turbocharger Air Inlet Ducts
    • EVOMS Billet Turbocharger Boost Recirculation Valves
    • EVOMS 70mm Sport Exhaust
    • HJS 200 cpsi SM-Winding Motorsport Stainless Steel Catalysts
    • Gaskets, Hardware & Installation Components

    When comparing our Performance Systems to other company’s parts, be sure to compare all of the components that are included. Most companies try and “hook” potential customers with incomplete / inexpensive entry level upgrades with undocumented “big power” claims. We can offer these same entry level “parts” however, we choose to extensively test and tune specifically developed components to create an “Evolution MotorSports - Performance System” with REAL and proven results. Our extensive R&D experience, rigorous testing, optimized performance and long term engine reliability can all now be synonymous when executed properly. We demonstrate our commitment to our Performance Systems / tuning philosophy, that we offer a 1-year, unlimited mileage engine warranty*. No other company can offer this level of REAL - PROVEN performance, with an engine warranty and without compromises. Dare to compare now?

    Our 997TT EVT Performance Systems start at about $3000 and range in price up to about $23,000 for our 700 HP upgrade. All include a 1 – year engine warranty. Please contact us for more details, specific prices and warranty information.

    • Optimized performance for both pump and race fuels

    ~ 723 HP / 719 TQ (race fuel)
    ~ 708 HP / 695 TQ (pump fuel)

    • Massive Increase in horsepower and torque

    ~ 280 ft/lb increase @ 5000 RPMS
    ~ 270 HP increase @ 5000 RPMS

    • Optimized engine performance with OEM Modified turbochargers
    • Reduced engine exhaust temperatures
    • Improved turbocharger spool time
    • Perfect fit – all components are direct replacement for the OEM components
    • All components developed, designed and manufactured in the USA
    • All components carry a lifetime warranty – Original purchaser

    Performance Data: When we finalized the tuning on our new ClubSport line of EVT Performance Systems for the 997TT, we decided to run it out at the drag strip. The car we tested was a 2007 997TT 6-Speed. The best time we posted was a 10.69 @ 133.28 with an overall best speed of 135.65 MPH. We ran into some SERIOUS traction issues due to how hard the car launches out of the hole.

    An EVOMS Performance System is meticulously engineered from preliminary ideas where the EVOMS design team analyzes specific performance criteria. ECU programming and components are researched, CAD designed, 3D modelled, prototyped and manufactured to meet those strategic goals. On rare occasions we choose a sourced component and is integrated into our development process based on stringent testing on the Dyno, street, and track.  Next, systematic analysis is conducted where reengineering, further testing and tuning is performed and refinements are made, sculpting the final system.

    EVOMS1.jpg

     

    EVOMS2.jpg

    EVOMS3.jpg

    EVOMS4.jpg 

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    STRADALE:

    Did you just talk me into Stage 4????? Smiley Seriously if you should replace the clutch w/ Stage 3, w/ the cost/labor/tranny removal , may as well just add the Turbo's, right?

    WOT in 5th? Without shifting? Could you elaborate more?

     

    No, far from it actually! If this were your toy/weekend car, then I'd say sure go for it, but it being your daily driver, I actually think maxing out on power is not necessarily a good thing. Just be careful as you proceed.

    There are pretty good objective data (accelaration & dyno) data on these tunes, what's very rarely discussed is a subjective review: how the car actually drives and feels. I liken a stock car to a nice gentle cat, and a tuned car to a chihuahua puppy. You don't necessarily want to be next to a hyperactive puppy all the times.

    Just my opinions (meaning I certainly could be proven wrong) here: there are several issues to consider as you go up on power, among which: smoothness, noise, the clutch, and the suspension. The stock car indeed is "better" in some of these aspects. Like all other car related issues: it's a trade-off & I believe that as you go up on the power, you might lose user's friendliness (IMHO). People just don't talk about it and I don't trust anyone really until I drive a car myself.

    One example is that clutch stage 3 mentioned. Some higher rated clutch has a real problem with engagement point that makes it very difficult to use (that's why they have that "GT2" conversion to remove the assist and makes the clutch easier to engage -- but this makes the clutch very heavy and not good for a daily driver).
    Second example, something seemingly unrelated: the suspension. As power goes up, not only front to back weight transfer (squat) becomes a problem with the soft stock suspension, but lateral weight transfer (body rol)l will become an issue as well, merely from the speed involved.

    BTW, if you are going all out to stage 4, ECU + exhaust + intercooler + larger turbo, I would suggest having it done at EVOMS shop in Arizona. At that level, you would like to have a custom tune (as opposed to the generic tune you have in your car now). They will have your car on the dyno, run it, data log it, then alter the program, multiple times, until the curves and the bahavior is satisfactory.

     


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    STRADALE:

    Did you just talk me into Stage 4????? Smiley Seriously if you should replace the clutch w/ Stage 3, w/ the cost/labor/tranny removal , may as well just add the Turbo's, right?

    WOT in 5th? Without shifting? Could you elaborate more?



    Regarding the clutch slipping, these are the 3 situations that it has happened in my car:

    1. Drive it like I have just robbed a bank.
    2. My tuner test driving it. (This is why I never dared to ask him what exactly he does to my Turbo baby when he has it. It would hurt too much. SmileySmiley)
    3. On freeway, runs 4th or 5th gear at low rpm, then WOT. Somewhere between 3000-4000 rpm, the tach needle will jump up without the car moving faster.

    Stage 2 cars are not supposed to do it, but mine does (bittersweet: wow the tune has good power, but darn I will have to change the clutch). I think if you add an intercooler to your stage 2 car, if it doesn't slip now, it surely will.
    Although I have no personal experience, mainly from reading and asking, the most user friendly clutch is likely to be that Sachs stage 2.5 that AWE tuning is offering (and EVOMS will if you ask for the part numbers specifically), not the stage 3 that you quoted.

    Incidentally, in a way you could use clutch slippage as a *rough* indication of the power involved. The stock clutch slips around 750 N*m/550 lbf*ft. If a tuner advertises his program to give higher than 750/550, yet the tune doesn't require a clutch upgrade, then the numbers are not true.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    cannga:

    Incidentally, in a way you could use clutch slippage as a *rough* indication of the power involved. The stock clutch slips around 750 N*m/550 lbf*ft. If a tuner advertises his program to give higher than 750/550, yet the tune doesn't require a clutch upgrade, then the numbers are not true.


    --

    Not necessarily 100% right......the slipping clutch is certainly evidence of a torque spike of XXXNM (as you say it is around 750NM where the stocker will slip) but it doesn't tell you anything else about the power curve in fact there are many "tuners" who like to give that big torque hit as it does make the car feel very fast with a very steep torque curve and gives the new owner the feeling of tyre shredding performance - this particularly happens in the countries with low and rigid speed limits.

    What can happen with these "tunes" is that the programming then has to wind back the boost and torque as your big spike has heated up the IAT too much so your power curve levels off or even goes down.

    There was a recent "monster" 997tt at a vmax event which felt brutal in its delivery but only managed near stock top speeds at the 1.5 mile marker - this happens A LOT but most owners don't know about it since they are never likely to run their engines to maximum revs in 4th 5th and 6th gear.....


    --


     

     

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    cannga:
    STRADALE:

    Did you just talk me into Stage 4????? Smiley Seriously if you should replace the clutch w/ Stage 3, w/ the cost/labor/tranny removal , may as well just add the Turbo's, right?

    WOT in 5th? Without shifting? Could you elaborate more?



    Regarding the clutch slipping, these are the 3 situations that it has happened in my car:

    1. Drive it like I have just robbed a bank.
    2. My tuner test driving it. (This is why I never dared to ask him what exactly he does to my Turbo baby when he has it. It would hurt too much. SmileySmiley)
    3. On freeway, runs 4th or 5th gear at low rpm, then WOT. Somewhere between 3000-4000 rpm, the tach needle will jump up without the car moving faster.

    Stage 2 cars are not supposed to do it, but mine does (bittersweet: wow the tune has good power, but darn I will have to change the clutch). I think if you add an intercooler to your stage 2 car, if it doesn't slip now, it surely will.
    Although I have no personal experience, mainly from reading and asking, the most user friendly clutch is likely to be that Sachs stage 2.5 that AWE tuning is offering (and EVOMS will if you ask for the part numbers specifically), not the stage 3 that you quoted.

    Incidentally, in a way you could use clutch slippage as a *rough* indication of the power involved. The stock clutch slips around 750 N*m/550 lbf*ft. If a tuner advertises his program to give higher than 750/550, yet the tune doesn't require a clutch upgrade, then the numbers are not true.

     


     

    Table below has the Sachs part number that you want: pressure plate xxx764 and organic clutch disc xxx973. I believe that AWE tuning calls this package Sachs Stage 2.5. If it were me, I would get that kit, *WITHOUT* the LW flywheel: http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=2&PMoI=41&PEI=17&PP=997tt_drivetrain.cfm&PPT=Drivetr...

    Be very careful about which clutch you use. Some of the high power ones, I don't know which one exactly, but stage 3 sounds suspicious, renders the engagement point difficult, a bad thing for a daily driver.

     

    Sachs Stage 2.5.jpg


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Also after months this thread is great!

    After 3.000kms with my Stage 2 CG/RS Tuning,and due to the lower temperature we have now here, i'm waiting next week to upgrade my clutch...it slips in the 2000/3000 rpms range at full throttle,tu jump the problem i must foot down over 4000 rpms

    I'm happy becouse is a proof that i have the right power

    Talk with RS,they tell me also the problem it depends of where i use the car usually(highway or not) and if i make the most acceleration from low rpm or not..clear,the clutch suffer more in some way than others.

    So,i think a good stage 2 tune need a good clutch too,stock is not enough


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Clutch slippage is sort of a rite of passage for Turbo owners, to a more significant social status, or maybe a parallel power universe :-). Yes it's a sign that your tune has brought your engine passed the approximate threshold for the stock clutch, which is about 550 lb-ft/750 N-m. It usually happens with a stage 3 tune, when an intercooler is added, but rarely some stage 2 car have slipped clutch as well.
    Kidding aside, besides the ambient temp and torque, it's also dependent on how/who drives the car. With mine, the clutch slips when it's cold and when I am being abusive, or whenever my tuner test drives the car after suspension adjustment, regardless of the temp. (I don't ask him anymore how he tests my baby. Smiley

    I am glad you're enjoying the experience -- stage 2 tune (ECU and exhaust, no other hardware change) is a mod that I would recommend to anyone, WITHOUT reservation, because the risk is so minimal and the gain so large. When I first had mine, the car felt like it's "skating/floating" on the road in sport mode, so significant was the power improvement (now that I am used to it, it just feels like I am going downhill all the times LOL). The sensation of no turbo lag is something stock Turbo owners will never know, and *should* know.

    (BTW, now that your car is more powerful, a stiffer suspension and stickier tires like R compound Pirelli Corsa become even more important. When you're itchy again for a new car, just change the stock suspension to Bilstein. Very similar to the "sport suspension" in C2S that people rave about, and another total transformation. That's another guarantee from me. Smiley)

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time for ECU Tuning

    Took home today the car from the dealer,the new clutch is on(Sachs)

    Well,seems to drive a new car,the clutch engage in first easier,and seems more aggressive when change gear at full throttle!i like it much better than stock!

    Also the car seems more powerful...maybe just an impression.

    But i can tell nothing than thanks to RS tuning.I love this car!


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

     
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