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    Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Cool article:

    Quote:
    So picture this. A long, long stretch of dual carriageway, two cars simmering beside each other at one end of it; a McLaren F1 plus a weird, insect-like machine with four huge tyres, an absurd number of scoops and winglets along the flanks and across the roof, plus a distinctive white-and-red badge on the nose that reads 'Bugatti.'

    Out of nowhere the McLaren's rear tyres suddenly light up and, after an eruption of V12 engine wail and wheelspin, it is gone, accelerating towards the far horizon. After 3.2sec it hits 60mph, after 6.3sec it reaches 100mph and after 10sec it passes 135mph. At which point the Bugatti sets off.

    There is virtually no wheelspin whatsoever: the Veyron is four-wheel drive. What there is is noise - a peculiar kind of signature that sounds a bit like two TVR Griffiths on full reheat plus an industrial-strength air hose, all at once. And to accompany this cacophony there is mind-bending, heart-stopping acceleration the like of which has never been felt before in a road car.

    After just 2.46sec the Veyron reaches 60mph, and barely a couple of seconds after that it bursts into three figures. But the thing you'll really struggle to get your head round, the statistic you'll be boring your mates with for some years to come, is this; despite setting off 10 seconds after the McLaren - when the F1 is already travelling at 130mph - the Bugatti reaches 200mph at exactly the same time as the F1. Think about that. I have. And I still can't quite fathom how rapid the Veyron must be to pull it off.





    The whole article:
    Bug off

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Doesn't really matter how fast, it's over 4200 pounds and doesn't handle that good to say the least. Plus it's stone-cold-ugly.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Good one, yeah goooood one, thx a lot TEMM!!

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Interesting read thanks

    You can mod a Viper and get the same power and acceleration for much less... a car is more than straight line acceleration, so what good is a 1000HP if its an overweight pig?... asnwer: childish remarks from some reporters who get a kick from starighline acceleration only, and bragging rights for the owners.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Interesting read thanks

    You can mod a Viper and get the same power and acceleration for much less... a car is more than straight line acceleration, so what good is a 1000HP if its an overweight pig?... asnwer: childish remarks from some reporters who get a kick from starighline acceleration only, and bragging rights for the owners.



    Sorry but I have to disagree; the Bugatti does not want to compete with other cars on the Nürburgring at all. nor does it want to compete with an Nox powered Lingenfelter Corvette or Viper in the straight line.
    what it does is just - but no less - making a statement on what is technologically doable nowadays. In concept it is similar to the Bentley GT. heavy but fast and extremely refined. It's the classical car no normal carproducer/manager would dare to produce (he'd loose his job rightaway) but only someone in the position (now 20% ownership in VW) and with the curriculum like Piech (porsche 917, audi quattro, W engine and 3L car to name a few) can pull off. knowing people who worked heavily on that car from the suppliers side, I have been assured that this is the technologically most complex machine around by far (including the yet to come 997tt!). It is admittedly perfectly useless, but so is a Global Express. it's a very bold statement and a car conceived by a dreamer. and therefore it gets my thumbs up.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Carlos, I dont think you could get a 900 or 1000hp Viper to accellerate the same. It doesnt have the same traction,the same torque and its gearbox would scatter itself after a few runs.

    I dont think it would handle as well at over 150mph either. You can barely drive a standard Viper GTS in the rain, it bottoms out on speed bumps, rough roads and on almost any driveway curb. Viper handling is bizarrely schizophrenic.

    But if you like hearing fuel injectors make a racket at low rpms like a T34 tank and want to see heat mirage over the hood on a cold day, the Viper is the car to buy.

    The Bugattis looks are a "acquired" taste. To each his own on that!

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    The example of the Viper was just to make a point, please don't take it literally. A technologically advanced straigh-line accelerating pig is just that a very expensive pig Its like the V112 Biturbo 5,850 pound Maybach Coupe...

    Sorry but I resent statements that glorify straight-line performance, and negate handling performance in cars... otherwise I wouldn't be driving a Porsche and I'd be driving a soupped up Viper.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    I needs me a veyron. It's not a race car- it's a car that is made just to be made. If Bugatti wanted to make an all out racecar- they would have made one. The McLaren f1 was a project based around the highest in technology at the time and a RACING engine. The Bugatti is a Bugatti- it is based on luxury and extreme power- clearly, you are not supposed to use all of it all of the time. It's like wearing ur rolex at every opportunity you get... no one does that. You wear it when you want to... other times you may wear it just for yourself... that's a bugatti- the best of what can be done for the point of doing it... it's not perfect but what it is.. is some of the best.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    I really don't understand your point of view carlos.

    The Veyron is a road car an it will be "unbeatable" on almost all known roads and weather conditions.

    So small differences in handling are only viewable on race tracks, because it's the only place where you search the real limits.

    Let's be serious: I never saw a driver sliding it's car over 120mph on an open twisty road.

    I really agree that the 911 is the best compromise between track and road, but it would look like a fat pig on 90% of the roads compared to a Veyron and both cars would also look like fat pigs on a race track compared to real track cars like Radicals, Normas, etc,etc ..

    You mostly need power on open roads and you mostly need agility on race tracks.

    About the weight, the Veyron weights 1900Kg, okay it's very heavy, but it has 4wd, 1001bhp, an 8liters v16 engine,4turbos, all the modern electric refinements and only weights 25% more than a 997s with 2wd, small 3l engine, 1/3 of the power.....

    Let's wait for the track times but i'm quite sure they won't be ridiculous, they developped the car on race tracks too and the massive power&traction will really help in the many staight sections of every modern race track.

    The Veyron looks like a great car to me because they pushed all the known limits and the car still seems to be easy to drive.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Hail the Cookie Monster!


    You nailed it!

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    If given the choice between a 911 and the Veyron it's a no brainer.
    There are 3 porsches on my block but noone has a Bugatti.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    The Veyron is a road car an it will be "unbeatable" on almost all known roads and weather conditions.



    Really?, a 1900Kg car will be "unbeatable" on all known roads on the count that it has 1000HP? Lets think about this, its precicely on the roads, were you can't take advantage of 1000HP. And what you are left with is a 1900Kg pig that will chocke up on the bends.

    There are many other sportcars with AWD's, plenty of HP for the road, and much lighter weight and agility. Take your pick and it will ridiculise the Veyron in the street... unless we are talking about stop-light straigh-line acceleration racing which I don't consider racing or performance.

    I cn tell you right now, the next GT2 will kill this Veyron in any track or street. Even the GT3. Just wait for the lap times. The Veyron is no sportcar like the ZondaF, CGT or Enzo. Its an extreme overweight SLR with 1000HP and AWD.


    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    I really don't understand your point of view carlos.




    My point of view comes from the fact that I resent cars or concepts that worship the aspect of straight line acceleration over everything else.

    Thats a wrong road/trend to follow for sportcars. I prefer the Porsche philosophy were handling performance comes first, and the real pleasure of driving is derived from such handling characteristics and ability, and not just sinking the gas pedal and letting an auto box accelerate through the gears in a straight line.

    Acceleration is really nice, but coupled with great handling, i.e. if preffer the feeling of acceleration while coming out of a corner than from a stop light.

    Maybe its because I'm used to sportbikes in which you have this supercar acceleration anytime with just the flick of a wrist, and much more realistic and exiting since you are not confortably seated in a seat inside a cabin while doing it, but talking about a car who's pricetag has become astronomical just so it can have "1000HP" written all over it, while forgoing the real aspects of a supercar, is sad IMO.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Carlos, Its nice to wear Porsche on your sleeve, but you maybe judging things a bit too quickly.

    The Bugatti is not a Bus or a Truck. Its a mid engine fast GT car for those customers that have everything else in their garage. Piech says its outstanding and he should know.

    So wax on about about deathwish sportbikes and Porsche GT2's all you want. Piech is way ahead of you, I or anyone else when it comes to both seat time and designing fast cars.

    You may not appreciate the concept of a mid engine 1001hp Bugatti, but hes not looking to please you. The Veyron is the passion work of the man responsible for the success of the 911 and the 917. He built it to please himself.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Yeah, we seem to have forgotten all of a sudden what an embarrasment the almost stillborn Veyron bad sopa opera of a project has been for VW and Piech with all its failures and problems making it the laughing stock in the industry... every man makes mistakes

    The Veyron has some great soultions, ist engine (though useless for a sportcar), its gearbox, etc. but when its put together in such a package, the resulting package is silly, contradictory. I fail to see the interest in such a car. But then again, we all think different and have different tastes, I'm just sahring mine.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Again i don't understand, how can you tell that the car has a poor handling without testing it? I guess you read it in a magazine... Do you like your Porsche because you read good things about it on magazines?

    About handling, do you know that the Porsche rear engine configuration is totally obsolete from every race engineer's point of view?

    I must be totally stupid and please acclaim Porsche for doing a 1500kg 340bhp car and hoot Bugatti for doing a 25% heavier 1000bhp 4wd sequential 7speed car.

    I guess you think that with the same power a Porsche would be faster than a subaru on a rally tighty road....Remind me to tell Peter Solberg and his engineers about it.

    Do you really think you may follow a 1000hp 4wd car with a gt3 on a bumpy tighty road or on every road? Even if you could pass it on a turn, what about the next straight or acceleration?
    What about the full time confidence you get with 4wd cars?

    Why do you compare lap times found in magazines?Do you only drive on the track? Do you only drive your car at the limit?

    Again we are talking about road cars, not race cars.

    So far, every journalist liked the Bugatti, let's wait and if we have the chance to drive one, we'll be able to talk about our handling feelings.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Yeah, we seem to have forgotten all of a sudden what an embarrasment the almost stillborn Veyron bad sopa opera of a project has been for VW and Piech with all its failures and problems making it the laughing stock in the industry... every man makes mistakes

    The Veyron has some great soultions, ist engine (though useless for a sportcar), its gearbox, etc. but when its put together in such a package, the resulting package is silly, contradictory. I fail to see the interest in such a car. But then again, we all think different and have different tastes, I'm just sahring mine.



    Im sure Peich can handle jealousy, hes used to dispatching idiots to their corners. He has the record of success that others can only peevishly snipe at.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    I would love to drive a Veyron (but it's not likely I'll get the chance. . . ), and if it cost a quarter as much, I might be tempted to buy one. BUT, I do wonder how well it would do in a slalom test ( ). I do agree, however, that the car is an engineering marvel, and I have tremendous respect for Piech's desire to "deliver" on his promise of 1,000HP-400km-/hour-1,000,000euros.

    I still have reliability concerns with that car-when driven on a regular basis for hours at a time, will it overheat and will the DSG hold up to the torque forces demanded of it? And if ANY maintenance service requires parts/engine work/structural repair, the whole vehicle needs to be shipped back to Molsheim, France. But the warranty is for only 2 years. And you thought that Porsche service charges were steep. . . .

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Al, its roughly only 10 dollars per each 1 horsepower, wich is a low cost ratio for any Bugatti!

    Its a good deal, trust me!

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    Again i don't understand, how can you tell that the car has a poor handling without testing it? I guess you read it in a magazine... Do you like your Porsche because you read good things about it on magazines?



    Ok, now you are just being silly Veyron = 1900Kg... hellooo!...


    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    About handling, do you know that the Porsche rear engine configuration is totally obsolete from every race engineer's point of view?



    If things were only that simple. Its not obsolete for a company who has had a change to evolve the pplatform for over 40 years and turned it inot the most succesful streetcar racing platform in the history of motorsport. Now, if you tell me GM o Chrysler is developing a rear negined platform then...


    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    I must be totally stupid and please acclaim Porsche for doing a 1500kg 340bhp car and hoot Bugatti for doing a 25% heavier 1000bhp 4wd sequential 7speed car.



    The effect the increase in weight has on handling and sportiness is not linear. I.e. 25% on top of a 1000Hg car does not have the same effect as 25% on top of 1500Kg car.


    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    I guess you think that with the same power a Porsche would be faster than a subaru on a rally tighty road....Remind me to tell Peter Solberg and his engineers about it.
    What about the full time confidence you get with 4wd cars?




    This does not deserve an answer.


    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    Why do you compare lap times found in magazines?Do you only drive on the track? Do you only drive your car at the limit?

    Again we are talking about road cars, not race cars.



    Because lap times in track serve as guide for which to draw coclusions on the car's ultimate abilities on the road better than anything else, especiall tracks such as the ring. Much better that journalists comments.


    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    So far, every journalist liked the Bugatti, let's wait and if we have the chance to drive one, we'll be able to talk about our handling feelings.



    ahh journalists.Following the journalist's opinions... thats another story altogether, I will not get into


    BTW, seems like you are taking this personally, relax, we are just talking about cars. I don't like the Veyron nor what it stands for, but its just my opinion, and I respect yours

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Hi Carlos, don't worry i don't take this personnaly but i really feel a bit of Porshe integrism in you .

    About the weight: a Lotus Elise is about 800Kg and a 997 is about 1470 kg and both handle very well,hellloooooo, so your argument won't convince me.

    A mclaren f1 is about 1050kg, Gordon Murray didn't want to go over 1000kg, he thought it was the last limit for a "true" sports car....the cgt and 997 are about 40% heavier and i think you agree they are "true" modern sports cars.

    What would have said Porsche owners 15 years ago if they had known the 911 would be 1500kg?

    So i don't think you can guess how the car will handle just because the weight is over 1500kg.

    i said that rear engine configuration is totally obsolete from every engineer's point of view, that is the truth, Porsche knows how to make this configuration work, that is also the truth, but any ultimate handling car will always have mid engine conf.

    I don't think that track times "draw conlusions on the car's ultimate abilities on the road better than anything else"a track is very different to a road in lots of points:

    -80% of the turns are tighter than on the road

    -the track is perfectly flat but a road is always bumpy

    -You can practice a track lap and get confidence, while you only use a road once or two times a day

    -You can reach the cars limits easily on tracks because the turns are slower and you won't destroy your car or hurt anybody.

    -Track times don't really show you the level of confidence you can get with a car.If you make a mistake, you can try to do a better time the next lap while on the road, if you make a mistake, you're in serious trouble and you need to be totally confident in your car to be fast.

    I have a very precise exemple: Small lotus cars always do well on small technical tracks, i think we have all seen that, and it's not easy to follow it with a gti or a subaru...but once on the road(any road), the elise can't even compete with an 200bhp slk or a gti:

    -On straight roads, it doesn't have enough power.

    -On tight roads the car rebounds on every bump and you may loose it easily.Anyway, you won't try to find the limits on very high speed bumpy corners because once it's gone, you're dead.
    You don't care of all that in a mitsu or gti....you don't even feel the bumps, and if you go over the grip limit, the car is still easy to control.

    That is just my opinion.I wish you a good evening.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:

    About the weight, the Veyron weights 1900Kg, okay it's very heavy, but it has 4wd, 1001bhp, an 8liters v16 engine,4turbos, all the modern electric refinements and only weights 25% more than a 997s with 2wd, small 3l engine, 1/3 of the power.....





    BUT C-Monster, it doesn't have any backseats.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    And it still is butt-ugly

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    I think the Veyron is an exceptional achievement: extraordinary in power, weight, engineering and design - in pure Bugatti tradition. A piece of automotive engineering closer to aeroplanes than cars but not comparable to mainstream sportscars. Isn't that what was required to reincarnate Ettore Bugatti's tradition?!

    I admire the Veyron for what it is - An extraordinary showcase car. Congratulations to Piech .

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    Hi Carlos, don't worry i don't take this personnaly but i really feel a bit of Porshe integrism in you .

    About the weight: a Lotus Elise is about 800Kg and a 997 is about 1470 kg and both handle very well,hellloooooo, so your argument won't convince me.




    you're really not understanding the effect that weight has on handling
    a 1500kg (997) car is not a 4000kg car (veyron)
    add on 2500kg to a 997 (even distribute it evenly, so it maintains good weight distrobution) and i will GUARANTEE you that the lighter 1500kg 997 will completely outhandle the 4000kg 997. I wonder why this is
    Hell, even give the heavier 997 more HP so it maintains the same Power/weight ratio. The lighter 997 will still be the better drivers car, for road OR track

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    I personally like the conclusion of the article: "despite the titanic performance and refinement it doesn't grab you emotionally like it should. Not like an F40, F1 or even a Murciélago does". I think knowing only the technical datas of the car hte author is right.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    What is his story about 4000Kg, where did you find the Veyron was so heavy? i remind you the veyron weights only 200kg more than a Murcielago or a 575M, cars which are not really known as being fat pigs.Weight is not everything, what about the dimensions and the gravity center?

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    What is his story about 4000Kg, where did you find the Veyron was so heavy? i remind you the veyron weights only 200kg more than a Murcielago or a 575M, cars which are not really known as being fat pigs.Weight is not everything, what about the dimensions and the gravity center?

    my mistake its 4300LBS, all this talk of kg's got me confused

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    What is his story about 4000Kg, where did you find the Veyron was so heavy? i remind you the veyron weights only 200kg more than a Murcielago or a 575M, cars which are not really known as being fat pigs.Weight is not everything, what about the dimensions and the gravity center?


    remember, the Veyron weighs in @ 4300lbs...

    taken from Road & Tracks "Road test summary"
    -Lambo Murcielago-
    Weight: 3638lbs (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 65mph
    Skidpad: .90g

    -Ferrari 612 Scaglietti-
    Weight: 4056lbs (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 66mph
    Skidpad: .91g

    -Bentley Continental GT-
    Weight: 5257lbs (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 63.8mph
    Skidpad: .84g (OUCH!)

    -MB SL65 AMG-
    Weight: 4654lbs (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 65.8mph
    Skidpad: .90g

    -Porsche 997S-
    Weight: 3131 (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 71.7mph
    Skidpad: .98g

    hmmm.. Seems to me that weight does matter. Considering a car with far less HP & is loads cheaper, out handles the heavier cars with ease

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    I never said that weight didn't matter, i said it wasn't everything..

    In this test, the heavier 612 does the same speed as the lowerCG&lighter Murcielago....

    Anyway, the handling is not only a track slalom test.Slalom test gives you a great idea of the cars agility and stability on sharp low/medium speed turns.What about high speed handling?On a track, the Murc is faster than the 612..

    And your numbers doesn't prove anything..the skidpad results are not at all correlated with the weight, so we can be sure that weight is not the main key to handling.

    MB SL65 AMG-
    Weight: 4654lbs (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 65.8mph
    Skidpad: .90g

    -Lambo Murcielago-
    Weight: 3638lbs (taken from HERE<--)
    Slalom: 65mph
    Skidpad: .90g

    You are really fair play and thanks for finding me arguments.

    Re: Autocar drives the Bugatti Veyron

    Wow - What is there to argue against? If I had $50M in the bank I would definately get one. The people who will buy this car do not need one vehicle to do it all - I bet it is a 5th or 10th or 20th car.

    Yeah the 997s is a great car. But come on - if you can afford the Veyron, don't you think you can afford both?

    I think it looks amazing. In person, I am sure it has quite a presence.

     
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