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    997 suspension graph: some observations

    Here is a very useful graph taken from the 997 Product Information guide (written by PAG to train dealership sales staff to understand the 997 better).

    I believe the following conclusions can be drawn from this graph:

    1) The key thing to appreciate about PASM is that PASM Normal is not a single suspension setting but it is instead a range of possible settings. Likewise, PASM Sport is a range of possible suspension settings as well. PASM calculates which setting to adopt at any point in time.

    2) The respective ranges of possible settings of each of PASM Normal and PASM Sport do overlap. This is represented by the area on the graph in green and khaki stripes. What this means is that the stiffer range of PASM Normal can be as stiff (or stiffer) than PASM Sport might be and vice versa.

    3) -20mm is consistently 'somewhat' stiffer (but not vastly so) than the standard suspension set up in the base 997.

    4) -20mm is basically as stiff as the stiffest setting PASM Normal can be.

    5) The standard suspension set up on the base 997 is approximately as stiff as the softest setting which PASM Sport can be.

    6) -20mm is approximately half the stiffness of the range of settings which PASM Sport can be.

    7) -20mm is approximately three quarters of the stiffness of the range of settings between the softest setting of PASM Normal and the stiffest setting of PASM Sport.

    8) The standard suspension set up on the base 997 is around three quarters of the stiffness of the range of possible settings that PASM Normal can be.

    9) The standard suspension set up on the base 997 is around half as stiff as the range of settings between the softest setting of PASM Normal and the stiffest setting of PASM Sport.

    If anyone else can describe any other lessons that can be gleaned from this graph, then please feel free to step in here!

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    One critical variable is missing from this graph. Of course it is beyond the scope of a single 2D graph. But my point is, of course, the wheel size and tyres.

    Porsche over wheel the 997 for marketing reasons: nice big shiny wheels filling up the wheel arches, with thin licorice rubber look wonderful. Of course there is a benefit to ultimate grip. But the costs are poorer steering feel and poorer ride quality.

    PASM negates the latter of these two penalties of bigger wheels. So you can have a 997 C2 with 18's with nice steering, nice ride and great handling and grip. Or a poser's 997 with 19' wheels, slightly less direct steering, nice ride (critically with PASM) and even better road / track grip.

    I'm not critisising... I went for the poser (19' / PASM)option myself.

    Also any motorcyclist (that is still alive) will tell you that the more independent links you can add to your suspension, the better it will react to bumps. Novices tend to lock their ankles, whereas more experienced riders will move their feet back in the pegs and use the extra articulation from their ankles. Think of thicker rubber as equivalent to a motorcyclalist using more of their ankle to soak up the bumps while retaining control.

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Many thanks for this post!

    I have been weighing the advantages/diaadvantages of C4 vs C4s.

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Great post. I've owned both a 997 and a 997S. The graph is consistent with what I've observed from both cars. The S, in normal mode, gives a softer ride than the non-PASM car when driven slowly, but stiffens up and gives tighter handling when pushed. FWIW, I find that PASM makes the 997S a better daily driver because of this. Nice to see this confirmation in graphical form.

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    The key lesson that is not covered in the graph above is that the switching between settings is very dynamic. PASM can be at one setting during part of a "bump event", and at another setting during another part of that event.

    To some extent, regular dampers do a similar thing, through the use of different jounce and rebound settings, and bypass valves.

    It's just that PASM makes such changes much more often. So comparing steady-state damping graphs does not tell the whole story.

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    It'd become obvious that the most critized habit of PASM in sport mode, the bouncy feel and overly stiff character should be due to its high damping force at slow damper speeds. The -20mm suspension in comparison is more adequate and adaptive to road conditions, providing higher damping force only when demanded.

    Quote:
    SimonWall said:
    [...] But the costs are poorer steering feel and poorer ride quality. [...]



    To a certain amount, I agree with the later. Not sure about the first aspect though, since this is massively improved by low-profile tires. A bigger sized wheel should reduce nervousness in the steering as well.

    What is essential in today's suspensions is the amount of unsprung weight. This is, in my humble opinion, the most relevant improvement on cars over the last two decades.

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    MANY THANX and merry christmas!!!


    i knew this explanation, i ve seen this graph, but even when i pressed the dealer to provide me a copy of this book that icludes it, his answer was negative
    "Im sorry sir, but this info is ONLY for dealers"


    God bless the ones that have the means to provide us with these resources

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Dilinger, if you would like a pdf version of the 911 Product Information guide (123 pages in total), just PM me your email address. I would be happy to email it to you.

    It's very interesting to read!

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Hi Easy rider could you please send me the pdf file
    prod. information booklet.
    Many thanks and happy holidays.
    Eddy

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Lots of guys here want the 911 Product Information Guide. I've been PM'd by many of you already.

    No problem - I am happy to send it to you but it takes a long time to email it (it's a 4.2MB upload) so one request: if you want it, please PM me by 7pm (London time i.e. 7pm GMT) tonight providing me with your email address. I will then send it at 7pm tonight to all the email addresses provided to me in one big email so that I don't have to keep sending it again and again.

    So, if anyone else here wants it, please send me your email address in the next 4 hours.

    Regards,
    Easy

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    I have this _Service Information/Technical Introduction_, spiral bound, 3/4 inch thick publication with part number PNA 489 421 05 which is really good.

    It is like an owner's manual, BUT insted of decribing how to operate the car it tells you, with technical details, how all the systems operate in the car. Quite informative; worth the us$20-30.

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Any chance of asking your secretary to scan it for us all to read?

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    It would take forever; sorry. Nice spiral binding so you can read it in bed and fall asleep.

    Anyway, it really is a good item to have with your car. It compliments the owner's manual materials really well... .

    As I said, it's like the textbook for a 101 class called "How the 997/S works."

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    easy_rider911,
    Just saw the post...would be grateful if you could send me a copy. bond00e@aol.com

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Craig,

    Pls download it from the following thread:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=304165&an=0&page=0#304165

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    easy,

    Thanks, I talked my sales professional (more on that later) into letting me copy his product guide. I believe I can make a higher quality hard copy from your .PDF. Chuck Yeager the famous WWII ace and first to exceed the speed of sound attributed his survival on many combat missions when his aircraft was damaged to knowing his systems. I think the product guide provides a lot of insight into the systems on the 997.

    I use the term sales professional because he talked me into a $500.00 wheel and tire protection plan which covers broken wheels and punctured tires. As you probably know any puncture of tires on the 997 void the speed rating. I have had three rear and one front tire replaced at no cost. I broke even on the $500.00 after the frist rear tire was replaced. The plan is good for five years.

    If you are in the Washington D.C. area I hope you will let me know so I can return your good turn.

    Thanks again for sharing this useful infromation.

    Happy New Year,

    Craig

    Re: 997 suspension graph: some observations

    Quote:
    Craig Bond said:
    easy,

    Thanks, I talked my sales professional (more on that later) into letting me copy his product guide. I believe I can make a higher quality hard copy from your .PDF. Chuck Yeager the famous WWII ace and first to exceed the speed of sound attributed his survival on many combat missions when his aircraft was damaged to knowing his systems. I think the product guide provides a lot of insight into the systems on the 997.

    I use the term sales professional because he talked me into a $500.00 wheel and tire protection plan which covers broken wheels and punctured tires. As you probably know any puncture of tires on the 997 void the speed rating. I have had three rear and one front tire replaced at no cost. I broke even on the $500.00 after the frist rear tire was replaced. The plan is good for five years.

    If you are in the Washington D.C. area I hope you will let me know so I can return your good turn.

    Thanks again for sharing this useful infromation.

    Happy New Year,

    Craig



    I too bit on a wheel and tire protection plan. Got a flat from a nail in the first 70 miles on my right rear tire. They replaced the tire and I broke even in the first week of ownership!

     
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