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    7.50min Ring time clarification...

    ...since there is far too many false info about it here recently.

    7.50min time is achieved by HvS with 997.2CS equiped with:

    -Sport PASM(-20mm/LSD)
    -PDK
    -PCCB
    -MIchelin Cup NO tires
    -Bucket seats

    Weight of that car is 1450kg. Most other press 997.2CS(coupes) are about 50kg heavier. Notice manual with same equipment as SA test example is about 25kg lighter...

    BUT, did any of you asked one very simple question-HOW FAST IS 997.2CS equiped with standard PASM?

    I was pretty supriesed that nobody asked that question so, I emailed my P. contact and here is what I got...

    997.2CS with standard PASM and optional LSD is about 8s slower on the Ring then Sport PASM equiped car. With same CUP NO tires...

    Clarification is needed because SA Supertest created false impression that 997.2CS is faster on the track then 997 Turbo. It is NOT.
    MY09 997 Turbo(manual, LSD, PCCB, Buckets, Cups) can achieve 7.47min Ring time without any problem, according to my P. contact even HvS knows that...

    Regarding Hockenheim...
    Porsche 997 Turbo indeed achieved 1.13,7min with Michelin PS2 tires but, it was MY07 car, one of the first press cars that SA get for Supertest. Same car achieved 1.11,9min with Cups on Hockenheim.

    Just few months later SA tested 997 Turbo Cabrio(!, manual with LSD and PCCBs) MY08 that already featured revised PTM and PASM. That car achieved 1.13,1min with Michelin PS2 tires...

    For comparison new 997.2CS from Supertest achieved 1.13,4min with Bridgestones...

    With if I told you that MY09 997 Turbo Coupe(manual, LSD, PCCB, Buckets) achieved 1.12,6min with Michelin PS2 tires???

    Point is that with standard PASM 997.2CS is about 10s slower on the Ring then 997 Turbo MY09.

    Some will like this info, others will be pissed...

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Point is that with standard PASM 997.2CS is about 10s slower on the Ring then 997 Turbo MY09.





    This is reasonable and expected given the Porsche model hierarchy.

    However, regarding Sport PASM, because it is available off the shelf from the factory on normal production cars and it is not a special outside modification, someone has every right to use it for the purpose of any comparison if it helps make the car faster.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Point is that with standard PASM 997.2CS is about 10s slower on the Ring then 997 Turbo MY09.





    This is reasonable and expected given the Porsche model hierarchy.

    However, regarding Sport PASM, because it is available off the shelf from the factory on normal production cars and it is not a special outside modification, someone has every right to use it for the purpose of any comparison if it helps make the car faster.



    Do you know how much 997.2CS are ordered with SA Supertest equipment? Below 5%...

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Point is that with standard PASM 997.2CS is about 10s slower on the Ring then 997 Turbo MY09.





    This is reasonable and expected given the Porsche model hierarchy.

    However, regarding Sport PASM, because it is available off the shelf from the factory on normal production cars and it is not a special outside modification, someone has every right to use it for the purpose of any comparison if it helps make the car faster.



    Do you know how much 997.2CS are ordered with SA Supertest equipment? Below 5%...



    I should think so, because 95% of buyers do not care about NBR, or are not so competent drivers to count 5 or 10 secs on an 8 min lap.

    However, if someone is serious about it and expert enough, he can get the SA specification readily available from the factory. No tuning, no special order.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Does anyone know how much harsher the ride is with the new Sport PASM? I'm still trying to get a straight answer.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    mstams said:
    Does anyone know how much harsher the ride is with the new Sport PASM? I'm still trying to get a straight answer.



    Sport PASM is much stiffer. Normal mode on Sport PASM is like Sport mode on standard PASM.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    mstams said:
    Does anyone know how much harsher the ride is with the new Sport PASM? I'm still trying to get a straight answer.



    So would you recommend for me? I will be a new Porsche owner, I don't plan to track the car, but it won't be my daily driver. Oh, and my wife will ride with me quite a bit... Thanks.

    Sport PASM is much stiffer. Normal mode on Sport PASM is like Sport mode on standard PASM.


    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Kreso --

    any chance of getting a chart similar to the one below comparing PASM with PASM Sport?


    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    mstams said:
    I will be a new Porsche owner, I don't plan to track the car, but it won't be my daily driver. Oh, and my wife will ride with me quite a bit... Thanks.




    Get the Normal -10mm PASM, it is more than adequate for fast road use and for your needs as above.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    8 seconds faster on the NBR is very impressive improvement for SPASM. Very stiff suspensions don't work well there (Walter R. always uses normal mode in the GT3, rather than Sport to set his record laptimes). This means that the SPASM must be very well tuned and not super stiff. I would consider this option seriously.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    The autocar review suggests is too harsh for normal use

    "The further uprated PASM sports suspension is an option to be avoided, the 20mm reduction in ride height and bigger wheels stiffening the car to the extent that it skittered across the top of a tight, badly surfaced corner. The standard set-up is vastly better."

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Some will like this info, others will be pissed...



    I don't see why, it make total sense. Good info.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    GR said:
    The autocar review suggests is too harsh for normal use

    "The further uprated PASM sports suspension is an option to be avoided, the 20mm reduction in ride height and bigger wheels stiffening the car to the extent that it skittered across the top of a tight, badly surfaced corner. The standard set-up is vastly better."


    No suspension that skitters across the road is going to do well on the variable surface of the Nordschliefe. I wonder if maybe the fast lap was made with SPASM in normal mode then? Would that be 8 sec. faster than regular PASM?

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Grant Sport PASM was in normal mode during HvS laps on the Ring.

    Sport PASM is as close as possible to GT3 PASM.

    BTW, all German reviews of Sport PASM claims that it is great for track driving but, too stiff for everyday use.

    Driving very fast on the autobahn is not very nice experience with Sport PASM equiped 997.2...

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Please clarify two points:

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Sport PASM is as close as possible to GT3 PASM.



    You mean Sport PASM(-20mm) in Sport mode is like GT3 PASM in Normal mode?
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, all German reviews of Sport PASM claims that it is great for track driving but, too stiff for everyday use.

    Driving very fast on the autobahn is not very nice experience with Sport PASM equiped 997.2...



    Are you referring here to the -20mm in Normal mode or the -10mm in Sport mode or the -20mm in Sport mode

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Please clarify two points:

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Sport PASM is as close as possible to GT3 PASM.



    You mean Sport PASM(-20mm) in Sport mode is like GT3 PASM in Normal mode?
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, all German reviews of Sport PASM claims that it is great for track driving but, too stiff for everyday use.

    Driving very fast on the autobahn is not very nice experience with Sport PASM equiped 997.2...



    Are you referring here to the -20mm in Normal mode or the -10mm in Sport mode or the -20mm in Sport mode



    1. Sport PASM on 997.2 models is as close as possible to 997 GT3 PASM in BOTH modes(standard and sport).

    2.There is NO -20mm and -10mm Sport PASM. Blame stupid P. marketing wizzards. Ride hight with Sport PASM is always the same 1290mm. Non PASM 997.2 is 1310mm and 997.2CS with PASM is 1300mm.
    Ride with Sport PASM is almost stiffer in normal mode then Standard PASM in sport mode! Test drive of Sport PASM is a must if you did not drive suspension that stiff before.

    For example-on the autobahn bridges junctions shake on the steering wheel is much, much bigger in 997.2CS with Sport PASM. At high speed(over 220km/h) it can be almost scary...

    Point is you can(as RC also pointed out in his 997.2 PDK review) costumize your 997.2 as much as you want. Just 997.2 with Sport PASM is IMHO pretty different car then 997.2 with standard PASM. Drive dynamics, steering feel and weight, stifness of suspension, lack of low speed comfort(with Sport PASM even in normal mode-low comfort as possible) ALL are different. Basically 997.2 with Sport PASM is almost completely different, more sporty and uncomfortable sportscar.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Please clarify two points:

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Sport PASM is as close as possible to GT3 PASM.



    You mean Sport PASM(-20mm) in Sport mode is like GT3 PASM in Normal mode?
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, all German reviews of Sport PASM claims that it is great for track driving but, too stiff for everyday use.

    Driving very fast on the autobahn is not very nice experience with Sport PASM equiped 997.2...



    Are you referring here to the -20mm in Normal mode or the -10mm in Sport mode or the -20mm in Sport mode



    1. Sport PASM on 997.2 models is as close as possible to 997 GT3 PASM in BOTH modes(standard and sport).

    2.There is NO -20mm and -10mm Sport PASM. Blame stupid P. marketing wizzards. Ride hight with Sport PASM is always the same 1290mm. Non PASM 997.2 is 1310mm and 997.2CS with PASM is 1300mm.
    Ride with Sport PASM is almost stiffer in normal mode then Standard PASM in sport mode! Test drive of Sport PASM is a must if you did not drive suspension that stiff before.

    For example-on the autobahn bridges junctions shake on the steering wheel is much, much bigger in 997.2CS with Sport PASM. At high speed(over 220km/h) it can be almost scary...

    Point is you can(as RC also pointed out in his 997.2 PDK review) costumize your 997.2 as much as you want. Just 997.2 with Sport PASM is IMHO pretty different car then 997.2 with standard PASM. Drive dynamics, steering feel and weight, stifness of suspension, lack of low speed comfort(with Sport PASM even in normal mode-low comfort as possible) ALL are different. Basically 997.2 with Sport PASM is almost completely different, more sporty and uncomfortable sportscar.



    Thanks a lot very clear now!

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    8 seconds faster on the NBR is very impressive improvement for SPASM. This means that the SPASM must be very well tuned and not super stiff. I would consider this option seriously.


    I must have option in my book

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    So how close to a 997.1 GT3 will a Sport PASM 997.2 with X51 get? Of course the 997.2 GT3 might reset the bar...

    Also this probably means a 997.2 SPASM X51 is faster at NBR than a MY09 997TT. Not good for the TT...

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Please clarify two points:

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Sport PASM is as close as possible to GT3 PASM.



    You mean Sport PASM(-20mm) in Sport mode is like GT3 PASM in Normal mode?
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, all German reviews of Sport PASM claims that it is great for track driving but, too stiff for everyday use.

    Driving very fast on the autobahn is not very nice experience with Sport PASM equiped 997.2...



    Are you referring here to the -20mm in Normal mode or the -10mm in Sport mode or the -20mm in Sport mode



    1. Sport PASM on 997.2 models is as close as possible to 997 GT3 PASM in BOTH modes(standard and sport).

    2.There is NO -20mm and -10mm Sport PASM. Blame stupid P. marketing wizzards. Ride hight with Sport PASM is always the same 1290mm. Non PASM 997.2 is 1310mm and 997.2CS with PASM is 1300mm.
    Ride with Sport PASM is almost stiffer in normal mode then Standard PASM in sport mode! Test drive of Sport PASM is a must if you did not drive suspension that stiff before.

    For example-on the autobahn bridges junctions shake on the steering wheel is much, much bigger in 997.2CS with Sport PASM. At high speed(over 220km/h) it can be almost scary...

    Point is you can(as RC also pointed out in his 997.2 PDK review) costumize your 997.2 as much as you want. Just 997.2 with Sport PASM is IMHO pretty different car then 997.2 with standard PASM. Drive dynamics, steering feel and weight, stifness of suspension, lack of low speed comfort(with Sport PASM even in normal mode-low comfort as possible) ALL are different. Basically 997.2 with Sport PASM is almost completely different, more sporty and uncomfortable sportscar.



    Thanks a lot very clear now!



    Excuse nmy ignorance, but SPASM is 10mm lower that PASM on the S, correct?

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    YES.

    Re: 7.50min Ring time clarification...

    Quote:
    However, if someone is serious about it and expert enough, he can get the SA specification readily available from the factory. No tuning, no special order.



    What is SA specification/supertest?

     
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