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    Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Hi guys,

    Have had a 360 Spider F1 transmission for the last 1 year or so. I'm not much of a driver, but I always had problems with gear 1 - i can't get the car to 'launch' properly, especially if I want to go fast from zero mph.

    If i press anything more than a little, the car 'lurches' , until i up it to gear 2, which makes the car smooth, but oh-so-slow.

    I know the 360 was not designed for drag races, but still.. is there any proper way to 'launch' the car? For me to avoid the 'lurching', I have to start off on gear 1 pretty slow, which is a pain in the ass!!

    If I press the accelerator pedal all the way, the wheels will spin before the car sprints off - is this the only way to get the car to move fast from zero?
    No intermediate?

    Hope you guys can shed some light on this issue

    Thanks!

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    IMO the only way to launch a Ferrari properly is to get one with 6-gear...
    I think the same about the F1, absolutely thrilling when shifting up- and downwards at high speeds, but a pain in the a.. when driving at low speeds. The "winter" programme with starting in second gear makes it a little bit better, but again is no substitute for a skilful clutch foot.

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    mnm said:
    ........... I always had problems with gear 1 - i can't get the car to 'launch' properly, especially if I want to go fast from zero mph.

    If i press anything more than a little, the car 'lurches' , until i up it to gear 2, which makes the car smooth, but oh-so-slow.




    That, unfortuneately, is the "state-of-the-art" for transmissions using electronically controlled friction clutches. The human brain and left foot still manage to work a lot better than them, especially in situations where the torque transmitted to the driving wheels needs to be modulated accurately.

    A hydraulic torque converter is more forgiving in these conditions.

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Thanks for the input guys .

    I did drive the Gallardo though, and it seems to not have any of these problems at all.

    It can launch perfectly well from gear 1 without missing a beat - is this because it is an AWD, and has better traction?

    Assuming you DID want to drag race the 360 F1, how would you recommend I launch the car?

    Depress the accelerator all the way, wait for the wheels to spin and then 'catch' and launch?
    Will the car lose control?

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    mnm said:
    I did drive the Gallardo though, and it seems to not have any of these problems at all.

    It can launch perfectly well from gear 1 without missing a beat - is this because it is an AWD, and has better traction?

    Assuming you DID want to drag race the 360 F1, how would you recommend I launch the car?

    Depress the accelerator all the way, wait for the wheels to spin and then 'catch' and launch?
    Will the car lose control?



    The clutchless Gallardo does have the same launch problem as the 360, though maybe the "tuning" of the electronic clutch control software might be better. Just as later model 360's have improved clutch control over earlier ones.
    Maybe you just didn't try to launch a Gallardo up a steep slope, or with full steering lock out of a parking slot?

    I suspect that the easier slippage of rear wheel drive compared with 4WD might help cover up the poor modulation of an electronically controlled clutch. Without having carried out a back-to-back comparison, I don't see an advantage for F1 tranny cars due to improved traction, because traction just isn't the problem.

    I have not driven a 360 F1 enough to have experimented with best launch procedures, especially not under hotrodding conditions! But if you check out test reports in the right journals, you should find some hints on what works. But would you really want to do that to your 360 on a regular basis? Journos don't have pay for repairing the toys they break.

    Cars do not lose control, drivers do.

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    mnm said:


    Cars do not lose control, drivers do.



    lol
    yeah, that's what i meant, freudian slip.
    When the wheels spin, the tail of the car tends to swing a little, and I get nervous that the car will go out of control

    The Gallardo honestly didn't seem to have the same problem though, seemed like the power transmitted by the first gear was less 'torquey'. The F1 on the 360 is terribly jerky. Sorry for all these non-technical terms.

    I certainly don't intend to drag the car at every light, sure would be an expensive way of driving and wouldn't do justice to the car. Just that it seems rather lame when saloon cars can outrace the 360 at the start of every traffic light for about 20m or so

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    mnm said:
    Thanks for the input guys .

    I did drive the Gallardo though, and it seems to not have any of these problems at all.

    It can launch perfectly well from gear 1 without missing a beat - is this because it is an AWD, and has better traction?

    Assuming you DID want to drag race the 360 F1, how would you recommend I launch the car?

    Depress the accelerator all the way, wait for the wheels to spin and then 'catch' and launch?
    Will the car lose control?



    The gallardo will lauch better because it has ALOT more torque from low revs - not some fancy software...

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1



    Go to this link. Pay particular attention to comments from Brian Stradale. Many of the comments reference the launch control of the Stradale but they also discuss use of the F1 for launching.


    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=901&highlight=launching+F

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    mnm said:
    Hi guys,

    Have had a 360 Spider F1 transmission for the last 1 year or so. I'm not much of a driver, but I always had problems with gear 1 - i can't get the car to 'launch' properly, especially if I want to go fast from zero mph.

    If i press anything more than a little, the car 'lurches' , until i up it to gear 2, which makes the car smooth, but oh-so-slow.

    I know the 360 was not designed for drag races, but still.. is there any proper way to 'launch' the car? For me to avoid the 'lurching', I have to start off on gear 1 pretty slow, which is a pain in the ass!!

    If I press the accelerator pedal all the way, the wheels will spin before the car sprints off - is this the only way to get the car to move fast from zero?
    No intermediate?

    Hope you guys can shed some light on this issue

    Thanks!



    The instruction manual contains a section about how to launch quickly. I think they say something like rev to 4000rpm and then pull the F1 paddle, or so. You will find the corresponding passage easily.

    I must admit that I never tried it myself as I do not like the mechanical parts to suffer...

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    mnm said:
    When the wheels spin, the tail of the car tends to swing a little, and I get nervous that the car will go out of control.

    The Gallardo honestly didn't seem to have the same problem ....



    mnm,
    Now I read you.

    The Gallardo's allwheel drive would help eliminate the fishtailing you describe, by spreading the tractive force around all four tire contact patches, instead of concentrating it at the end of the car which does the pushing.

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    nberry said:


    Go to this link. Pay particular attention to comments from Brian Stradale. Many of the comments reference the launch control of the Stradale but they also discuss use of the F1 for launching.


    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=901&highlight=launching+F




    Thanks! That was an interesting link.
    Would any of the things Brian Stradale posted be relevant to a 360 and not a CS?

    Assuming YOU wanted to race your 360 nberry how would you get it off from zero?

    Thanks for the inputs as always!

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    fritz said:

    mnm,
    Now I read you.

    The Gallardo's allwheel drive would help eliminate the fishtailing you describe, by spreading the tractive force around all four tire contact patches, instead of concentrating it at the end of the car which does the pushing.



    Ah, I see.

    Would you know how likely a car would be to lose control if it were to fishtail from the start?

    I.e if I were to depress the accelerator pedal all the way from gear 1 and standstill, the car will definitely fish tail - how bad is this expected to be, and if i were to hold on to the steering wheel like my life depended on it, will the car still move off in a straight line?

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    mnm said:
    Would you know how likely a car would be to lose control if it were to fishtail from the start?

    I.e if I were to depress the accelerator pedal all the way from gear 1 and standstill, the car will definitely fish tail - how bad is this expected to be, and if i were to hold on to the steering wheel like my life depended on it, will the car still move off in a straight line?




    The liklihood of the driver losing control of the car is dependant on:

    - the driver's initial inputs

    - the way the driver then reacts to what the car does as a result of his initial inputs.

    The driver and car should be looked on as a "closed loop control system". The driver is constantly giving the inputs he thinks will produce the desired results, and correcting any undesired results of previous inputs. Holding on to the wheel for dear life and stepping hard on the throttle will just mean that the front wheels are pointing straight ahead in the chassis when the car disappears into the scenery sideways or backwards!

    But you will not learn this from an internet forum.
    If you are seriously interested, you should enrol in a track-based sport driving course. At the very least, you might initially want to take your car to a large, flat, open area of smooth asphalt where you can familiarise yourself with your car's reaction to extreme inputs, with traction control switched on and off, etc.... Take a suitably experienced friend with you to give you tips, if possible.

    That way you won't waste the first expensive school hours learning real basics. But go to school before you do any real track driving, so you don't get into bad habits you'll have to unlearn later.

    Re: Gear 1 on the 360 F1

    Quote:
    fritz said:


    The driver and car should be looked on as a "closed loop control system". The driver is constantly giving the inputs he thinks will produce the desired results, and correcting any undesired results of previous inputs. Holding on to the wheel for dear life and stepping hard on the throttle will just mean that the front wheels are pointing straight ahead in the chassis when the car disappears into the scenery sideways or backwards!





    LOL

    Thanks for the info fritz.

    I will bring the car to a huge empty parking lot and do some 'training'.

    Will let you know if I survive. Appreciate all the friendly input and feedbacks!

     
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