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    Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Hi folks,

    Basically my question is MR v RR.

    I just brought a Lotus S1 Exige, I love the handling of this car. Probably due to the Mid engine design and lightweight (less than 800kg). However, the power isn't enough.

    I am planing to buy the facelift RS in the future, and I have already placed an deposit for that, but just thinking which one have better handling, because the RS is Rear engine design and heavier (with alot more power).

    Anyone here have driven both?

    How are they compared?

    Thanks, I seriously couldn't go back to FR, FF or 4WD sports car.


    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    You might find this interesting...not the cars you're comparing but similar dilemma.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYpz2iOOE-4

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    I've owned & extensively tracked an S1 Exige and a Mk1 996 GT3. The Exige was definitely a more sensitive handling car, and could carry more corner entry and mid-corner speed, but the GT3 was faster over a lap. The GT3 would make up speed on corner exit (via the handling using the rear weight bias) then out-accelerate down the straights. Subjectively the fun factor re the handling was about the same for me.... so based on you considering a 997 RS Mk2, it should clearly be a better (both objectively and subjectively) handling car than a S1 Exige.... I'd DEFINITELY take the RS if it was my money

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    The exige weighs much less and the handling characteristics are drastically different between the two.

    The Exige is much more "tossable" as a track beater car, while with the GT3 RS you may or may not feel guilty thrashing it on the track

    The real issue is that the rarity of the RS makes it difficult to treat it like a track tool. Market price puts it at nearly 3x the price of an exige.

    It all depends on what you want to use the car for. Fun factor on the street is about the same, although the Lotus always looks like a toy to me. Just personal preference I suppose.

    Are you getting RHD cars?

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    I've driven the RS quite a few times around the track and tracked my Exige S quite a bit last year as well. The RS is differently a more "serious" car - the Lotus is really just a toy

    It all depends on what kind of track you are driving. Obviously the more bends and tighter the track is the Exige comes first for me. For longer tracks that are like Monza etc. the GT3RS would be the better pick.

    Not to mention the Lotus is cheap to maintain and you don't feel as guilty thrashing it around as you would in a GT3RS.

    Good luck with what ever you decide

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    I agree the Lotus looks like a toy, probably deal to the body material.

    Once my new RS arrived, I am going to sell the Lotus. My Exige is quite old already.

    However, the Lotus is very fun and cheap to maintain, but at that time I should just keep the real sports car.

    Thanks again...

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    but at that time I should just keep the real sports car.


    Pardon me, but a S1 Exige is a real sports car
    If money is not an issue, let it have an engine conversion : Hartley V8 200lbs, 400HP

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Quote:
    but at that time I should just keep the real sports car.


    Pardon me, but a S1 Exige is a real sports car
    If money is not an issue, let it have an engine conversion : Hartley V8 200lbs, 400HP



    You're right, I love my Exige and just couldn't stop driving it. Actually, I planned to switch to Honda engine before, but now I would just keep it standard and wait for the RS. And my Exige doesn't have air-conditioning, so that's a serious problem here in summer.

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Quote:
    but at that time I should just keep the real sports car.


    Pardon me, but a S1 Exige is a real sports car
    If money is not an issue, let it have an engine conversion : Hartley V8 200lbs, 400HP




    sound interesting !

    you got any lotus has installed that engine!?
    i want to reject that k20a engine convertion , cause too many problem about their driveshaft!?


    and does that hartly h1v8 engine a lot heavier then standard engine!?

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Go to the Elise forums. YOu can add 50rwhp to that Lotus with some ECU upgrades. Also, there are other FI options that deliver 300+hp. Imagine 300hp in a Lotus...that is how the car should be made from the factory at less than Z06 prices.

    I have considered buying an used Elise and putting on a Katana Supercharger and redoing the suspension, but I hear so many horror stories about the Elise being fragile, difficult to drive at the limit, having a lack of strength in the rear end of the chassis, that actually can come apart even without using R compounds. There is also a huge problem that is recognized by the factory regarding oil starvation under G loads, so either Accu-Sump or at minimum deep oil pan is required. The more research I did, the deeper the list of issue became. Also, the only way to make power is through Supercharger and more boost/timing which equal heat and detonation. Many spoke about need water injection at the track to deal with the heat soak. The car needed many expensive modifications to become a serious road race toy.

    Where on the other hand the GT3 is 110% ready to go at the track with no modifications but tires and brake pads. It has dry sump which is worth it's weight in gold. You don't need FI to make power, so no heat/detonation issues or need for complex intercoolers.

    I don't own either, but have been tracking cars for 8 years now and to me the clear winner is the GT3 (between the two). But Gt3 is twice the price, so it should be! Also, no offense to Lotus owners, but I would NEVER pay what Lotus is asking for those cars (at least in the US). The only way I would buy a Lotus is at 1/2 MSRP. For my $65k US I would pick up a Z06 (which I have..duh) and destroy both cars in regard to lap times! The Z06 is like the GT3, in that it needs no modifications to be track ready.

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    Go to the Elise forums. YOu can add 50rwhp to that Lotus with some ECU upgrades. Also, there are other FI options that deliver 300+hp. Imagine 300hp in a Lotus...that is how the car should be made from the factory at less than Z06 prices.

    I have considered buying an used Elise and putting on a Katana Supercharger and redoing the suspension, but I hear so many horror stories about the Elise being fragile, difficult to drive at the limit, having a lack of strength in the rear end of the chassis, that actually can come apart even without using R compounds. There is also a huge problem that is recognized by the factory regarding oil starvation under G loads, so either Accu-Sump or at minimum deep oil pan is required. The more research I did, the deeper the list of issue became. Also, the only way to make power is through Supercharger and more boost/timing which equal heat and detonation. Many spoke about need water injection at the track to deal with the heat soak. The car needed many expensive modifications to become a serious road race toy.

    Where on the other hand the GT3 is 110% ready to go at the track with no modifications but tires and brake pads. It has dry sump which is worth it's weight in gold. You don't need FI to make power, so no heat/detonation issues or need for complex intercoolers.

    I don't own either, but have been tracking cars for 8 years now and to me the clear winner is the GT3 (between the two). But Gt3 is twice the price, so it should be! Also, no offense to Lotus owners, but I would NEVER pay what Lotus is asking for those cars (at least in the US). The only way I would buy a Lotus is at 1/2 MSRP. For my $65k US I would pick up a Z06 (which I have..duh) and destroy both cars in regard to lap times! The Z06 is like the GT3, in that it needs no modifications to be track ready.



    You should test drive an Elise before maximizing hypothetical problems. The thrills of an Elise lie in corner speeds and not in straight line performance.
    Upgrading the Elise to >300 PS, and hence adding weight, isn't what this car is about.
    It might not be the fastest car around the track, but it sure is one of the most enjoyable ones, anywhere!

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    bazza said:
    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Quote:
    but at that time I should just keep the real sports car.


    Pardon me, but a S1 Exige is a real sports car
    If money is not an issue, let it have an engine conversion : Hartley V8 200lbs, 400HP




    sound interesting !

    you got any lotus has installed that engine!?
    i want to reject that k20a engine convertion , cause too many problem about their driveshaft!?


    and does that hartly h1v8 engine a lot heavier then standard engine!?



    IIRC the K20A honda (complete engine except oil filter and engine loom) weighs in at around 119,2 kg. The gearbox is 41 kg.
    The 2ZZGE Toyota/Yamaha engine weighs 137 kg and it produces 192 PS.

    So, the Hartley powerplant is quite "light" in comparison. AFAIK there are one Caterham Super 7 and one Ariel Atom which have the Hartley installed. On their website you can find a few videos of the Super 7 : click here
    The Hartley is pretty costly. A Duratec conversion might be another option. It has more torque than the Honda.

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Forgot to mention, if you want to compare a pure track Porsche like the Gt3 with a Lotus, you should compare it with a track oriented Exige like for example the Lotus Exige 255 Cup or the new 2-Eleven.
    Those come with the right power, uprated suspension and brakes and ...accusump

    Lotus Exige Cup 255:

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    Go to the Elise forums. YOu can add 50rwhp to that Lotus with some ECU upgrades. Also, there are other FI options that deliver 300+hp. Imagine 300hp in a Lotus...that is how the car should be made from the factory at less than Z06 prices.

    I have considered buying an used Elise and putting on a Katana Supercharger and redoing the suspension, but I hear so many horror stories about the Elise being fragile, difficult to drive at the limit, having a lack of strength in the rear end of the chassis, that actually can come apart even without using R compounds. There is also a huge problem that is recognized by the factory regarding oil starvation under G loads, so either Accu-Sump or at minimum deep oil pan is required. The more research I did, the deeper the list of issue became. Also, the only way to make power is through Supercharger and more boost/timing which equal heat and detonation. Many spoke about need water injection at the track to deal with the heat soak. The car needed many expensive modifications to become a serious road race toy.

    Where on the other hand the GT3 is 110% ready to go at the track with no modifications but tires and brake pads. It has dry sump which is worth it's weight in gold. You don't need FI to make power, so no heat/detonation issues or need for complex intercoolers.

    I don't own either, but have been tracking cars for 8 years now and to me the clear winner is the GT3 (between the two). But Gt3 is twice the price, so it should be! Also, no offense to Lotus owners, but I would NEVER pay what Lotus is asking for those cars (at least in the US). The only way I would buy a Lotus is at 1/2 MSRP. For my $65k US I would pick up a Z06 (which I have..duh) and destroy both cars in regard to lap times! The Z06 is like the GT3, in that it needs no modifications to be track ready.



    You should test drive an Elise before maximizing hypothetical problems. The thrills of an Elise lie in corner speeds and not in straight line performance.
    Upgrading the Elise to >300 PS, and hence adding weight, isn't what this car is about.
    It might not be the fastest car around the track, but it sure is one of the most enjoyable ones, anywhere!



    We'll you assumed that I have not test driven an Elise/Exige. You know what they say about ass u me ing. I have driven an Elise, Exige S, and a Katana S (265hp) pretty hard and can tell you I prefered the handling of my Z06, putting power aside. Each car pushed and the steering was not nearly as responsive as publicized. I found the car to be more of a "hand full", and the steering difficult in low speed corners. There were several times I missed my corner entry as I could not get the car to rotate. This is partly due to the fact that I am not customed to driving a mid-engine car every day. But, as an example, if I were driving down the street in my Z and just grabbed the wheel, the car immediately turns in. In the Lotus, the car seemed to breifly hesitate, push forward a bit then turn in. This improved as the speed went up, but was very foreign to me.

    I also have driven side by side, and rode in a number of Elise's at the track and I did not find them faster around anything but slower corners at best. Also, the problems I stated were heavily documented on the Lotus forum, which I have been a memeber for over a year. I have seen threads talk about all kinds of issues, regarding it's track reliability and was turned off.

    Sometimes cars can be...well, over glamorized. I started thinking about a phrase an instructor once laughed about..."Lotus, for those afraid to go really fast".

    Or...Lotus (Lots Of Trouble Often Serious)

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    95jersey, the handling characteristics you described are typical of the difference between Front Engined & Mid Engined cars. A FE car has the weight already over the front wheels and should turn in quicker if driven in the same manner as a ME car. For a ME car, you really need to trail brake deeper into the corner and keep some weight on the front to get the lightning turn in. The car will then rotate beautifully as you come off the brakes, and sit back on the rear to accelerate out of the corner. It's the same situation for my 360, and boxsters etc. A lot of my friends who have "upgraded" from a GT3 to a 430 complain about excessive push in the Ferrari, but that's because they're driving it like their Porsche.

    I found the Lotus really took a massive change in technique to go fast, but once you got your head around it, it was as fast as anything into a corner.

    Re: Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige

    Quote:
    mattmiesnieks said:
    95jersey, the handling characteristics you described are typical of the difference between Front Engined & Mid Engined cars. A FE car has the weight already over the front wheels and should turn in quicker if driven in the same manner as a ME car. For a ME car, you really need to trail brake deeper into the corner and keep some weight on the front to get the lightning turn in. The car will then rotate beautifully as you come off the brakes, and sit back on the rear to accelerate out of the corner. It's the same situation for my 360, and boxsters etc. A lot of my friends who have "upgraded" from a GT3 to a 430 complain about excessive push in the Ferrari, but that's because they're driving it like their Porsche.

    I found the Lotus really took a massive change in technique to go fast, but once you got your head around it, it was as fast as anything into a corner.



    agreed and faster than most cars in tight corner.

     
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