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    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    RC - Doesn't it seem weird that the 3.8 GT3RS motor would only make 24hp more than the 3.8 X51 motor, when the former revs 1,450 rpm higher?



    Nope. Two different engines, I bet that the GT3 RS engine is based on the "old" 993/GT1 engine design (like the former GT3/Turbo/GT2).


    Yes, I understand, but I also didn't expect a displacement increase AND an engine speed increase (this is difficult to engineer with the higher piston speed and reciprocating mass). If true, such an engineering feat should produce more than 24hp.

    Are you saying that the M97 design is more efficient than the GT1-style, aside from oiling and longevity advantages for the old style?

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    RC: Where in Germany do you live? I saw the real Porsche 959 in CA yesterday, I never thought the 959 was a pretty car but OMG this is a very special car even today. Don't you think the 959 would keep up with the 996TT. Top end wise is probably faster??

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Are you saying that the M97 design is more efficient than the GT1-style, aside from oiling and longevity advantages for the old style?



    Well, the M97 engine is the newer engine design, right?!
    But I think that the current 3.8 l GT3 engine will be limited in power to offer the best possible endurance capability for racing without the need of major modifications. I also think that the "old" engine design allows much higher "reliable" rev figures without damaging the engine sooner or later. And of course it can all be a marketing plot, who knows what to expect next: a 450 HP GT3 RS MkII? I'm afraid that although Porsche seems to build some highly refined and very nice cars right now, it is always about money, money and...money of course.

    142000 Euro for a GT3 RS? Same money a 996 Turbo S costs over here? Holy cow.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    RC: Where in Germany do you live? I saw the real Porsche 959 in CA yesterday, I never thought the 959 was a pretty car but OMG this is a very special car even today. Don't you think the 959 would keep up with the 996TT. Top end wise is probably faster??



    I live in Bavaria, around 180 km (~ 110 mls) away from the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen.
    The 959 is a great car and it was the most advanced sportscar in it's time period. My dealer had one for sale but believe it or not, nobody bought it. It was pretty "cheap" for a used 959 with low mileage but people were afraid of high maintenance cost (whic is indeed true).
    I always love to look at one when I see one sitting somewhere but I would never buy one because of the high cost involved. I'm not sure it would outrun the 996 Turbo from 0-125 mph but 959 top speed is of course much higher.

    I still think that the 993 Turbo is the most remarkable 911 (for it's time period) Porsche ever built. Even now, there are 993 Turbo driving around, some with stock power, some with factory powerkits and some tuned to over 700 HP. Don't forget that most 993 Turbo are around 10 years old. At that time, Porsche had no real competition at that price tag and with the same 0-125 mph acceleration.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    My analysis:

    1) whoever wrote this press release thought of April 1 too early.
    2) They tried to mess with Autospies.com , since they're supposedly the most reliable source on the net. You know they will publish it on their site.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    My analysis:

    1) whoever wrote this press release thought of April 1 too early.
    2) They tried to mess with Autospies.com , since they're supposedly the most reliable source on the net. You know they will publish it on their site.



    It really may be a HOAX. Why? Because the press release mentions that it takes the 997 GT3 RS 14.8 seconds to get from 0-125 mph and back to 0 mph. This is impossible. The Carrera GT has been tested at 15.0 seconds, the 996 GT2 at 17.3 seconds as far as I remember.
    Something really smells wrong about this "press release", seems more like something somebody made up from rumors and gossip. But we should never say no...I still hope it isn't true.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I forgot: if this leaked press release is real, has somebody thought of the possibility that the GT3 RS actually has the wider body and not the narrow body of the 997 Carrera and Carrera S? I don't know, I saw two different GT3 mules on various pictures, one narrow and one wide. The wider version looks better, maybe another reason for the lower top speed compared to the former 996 GT3 RS?



    That sounds VERY possible. I don't know if it was you who mentioned it, but the widebody supposedly offered better stability under braking and at high speeds. Would be a perfectly legitimate reason to make the sportiest model of the 997 line a widebody... It would also justify the price at least a bit...

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    I call Booolshit.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    RC: Where in Germany do you live? I saw the real Porsche 959 in CA yesterday, I never thought the 959 was a pretty car but OMG this is a very special car even today. Don't you think the 959 would keep up with the 996TT. Top end wise is probably faster??



    I live in Bavaria, around 180 km (~ 110 mls) away from the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen.
    The 959 is a great car and it was the most advanced sportscar in it's time period. My dealer had one for sale but believe it or not, nobody bought it. It was pretty "cheap" for a used 959 with low mileage but people were afraid of high maintenance cost (whic is indeed true).
    I always love to look at one when I see one sitting somewhere but I would never buy one because of the high cost involved. I'm not sure it would outrun the 996 Turbo from 0-125 mph but 959 top speed is of course much higher.

    I still think that the 993 Turbo is the most remarkable 911 (for it's time period) Porsche ever built. Even now, there are 993 Turbo driving around, some with stock power, some with factory powerkits and some tuned to over 700 HP. Don't forget that most 993 Turbo are around 10 years old. At that time, Porsche had no real competition at that price tag and with the same 0-125 mph acceleration.



    To me, this is like asking me if I prefer Beluga caviar or Osetra caviar-both wonderful appetizers from the Caspian Sea.

    The 959 and 993Turbo's were cars ahead of their time. Just for the sake of comparison, here are some quarter mile times:

    959: 11.8 seconds
    993TTS: 12.1
    996TTS: 12.1.

    I love both cars' aesthetics, and their raw performance #'s are competitive with each other:

    959:
    2.8L
    450HP
    1447kg/3190lb
    0-60 3.5
    top speed 205mph

    993TTS:
    3.6L
    424HP
    1583kg/3490lb
    0-60 3.7
    top speed 192mph

    Both competitive with the 996TTS. The 959 was conceived by Professor Helmuth Bott, head engineer Manfred Bantle. I hope the 997TT trumps them all, in power, performance and handling.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    RC: Where in Germany do you live? I saw the real Porsche 959 in CA yesterday, I never thought the 959 was a pretty car but OMG this is a very special car even today. Don't you think the 959 would keep up with the 996TT. Top end wise is probably faster??



    I live in Bavaria, around 180 km (~ 110 mls) away from the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen.
    The 959 is a great car and it was the most advanced sportscar in it's time period. My dealer had one for sale but believe it or not, nobody bought it. It was pretty "cheap" for a used 959 with low mileage but people were afraid of high maintenance cost (whic is indeed true).
    I always love to look at one when I see one sitting somewhere but I would never buy one because of the high cost involved. I'm not sure it would outrun the 996 Turbo from 0-125 mph but 959 top speed is of course much higher.

    I still think that the 993 Turbo is the most remarkable 911 (for it's time period) Porsche ever built. Even now, there are 993 Turbo driving around, some with stock power, some with factory powerkits and some tuned to over 700 HP. Don't forget that most 993 Turbo are around 10 years old. At that time, Porsche had no real competition at that price tag and with the same 0-125 mph acceleration.



    To me, this is like asking me if I prefer Beluga caviar or Osetra caviar-both wonderful appetizers from the Caspian Sea.

    The 959 and 993Turbo's were cars ahead of their time. Just for the sake of comparison, here are some quarter mile times:

    959: 11.8 seconds
    993TTS: 12.1
    996TTS: 12.1.

    I love both cars' aesthetics, and their raw performance #'s are competitive with each other:

    959:
    2.8L
    450HP
    1447kg/3190lb
    0-60 3.5
    top speed 205mph

    993TTS:
    3.6L
    424HP
    1583kg/3490lb
    0-60 3.7
    top speed 192mph

    Both competitive with the 996TTS. The 959 was conceived by Professor Helmuth Bott, head engineer Manfred Bantle. I hope the 997TT trumps them all, in power, performance and handling.



    Al, very useful metrics comparing the various generational models ....do you have model yr, MSRP and N-ring time of 959 vs 993TTS vs 996TTS?

    I suspect comparos on those metrics would make one realize how cheap today's cars are per unit of performance/daily driveability, etc, esp on an inflation-adjusted basis.....

    The purported 997GT3RS "press release" seems bogus to me.....no car mfr in world (incl F) has attempted to raise base prices on a new model more than about 5%-7%....the car world is just too competitive and buyers have become accustomed to car pricing that's more like pricing of new PC's/other tech goods....base prices stay within various psychologic barriers, like $100K or $200K or $300K....and power (and wt, daily useability and safety) of performance cars keeps increasing and N-ring times keep going down w/continuing tech advances in engines/chassis/brakes/tires/stab ctrl software, etc.....

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    this is all BS in my opinion/hope. furthermore, the 993 TT was the greatest ever production porsche lol. I hope RC of all ppl tho, isnt losing the pcar faith!

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The rear wing is going to be more prominent?

    I am not trying to be negative but honestly wouldn't most of you be embarrassed driving around town with a big prominent wing on the rear deck? My god, your successful people with a great deal of maturity. To drive around with a big wing on a car is sooo ricer and frankly infantile.



    You're not your, and if you track your car, why is it infantile to buy a track car? Since when is proper engineering infantile? Honda boys put wings on for fun, Porsche does it for downforce. A planted rear end will save seconds on lap times and make the car safer at speed. I don't understand the double standard, racecars need big wings, track day cars are merely toned down racers, going to a smaller wing JUST for looks would be infantile and vain.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    The "press release" is wrong. It states that the new 997 rs will have 11 inch wide rear rims and the old one had 10. The old one had 11s. I hope the new one has 11.5 or 12.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Yargk said:
    The "press release" is wrong. It states that the new 997 rs will have 11 inch wide rear rims and the old one had 10. The old one had 11s. I hope the new one has 11.5 or 12.


    There are several errors like that in the "press release" including the 0-170kph which is really meant to be 0-160kph

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    no words...

    but why only GT3 RS and no normal GT3?

    and why this morning on all internet sites..no words about this news?

    sound strange...i come back to sleep

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Duncan said:
    http://www.fastdrive.org/forum_viewtopic.php?26.5308



    What a modest price

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Crash said:

    So, RC, you're basically saying that the "S" version could hit a price tag of Euro 160.000? That's as much as a 430 Spider. The TTS Cab might cost as much as a 430 CS... Porsche better make this car in lesser volume or there are going to be a lot of pissed off pharmacists running around, both GErman and Italian...



    The 997TTS will probably have the performance of the 600hp Maranello successor (if not better). So this car cannot be compared to a 430 or 430CS. It will be a different class.

    If the car really gets 530hp +/- Euro 160k would be OK.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Just got the info that the whole "press release" seems to be a HOAX but there is no official confirmation for that yet. IF this is a HOAX, the person who planted it may not be aware that he may be held responsible if this hoax has a financial impact on Porsche and/or their reputation.
    Such jokes are nice for April 1st but not funny at all during the year.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    plus 3pct in 2007 due to increased vat!

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Just got the info that the whole "press release" seems to be a HOAX but there is no official confirmation for that yet. IF this is a HOAX, the person who planted it may not be aware that he may be held responsible if this hoax has a financial impact on Porsche and/or their reputation.
    Such jokes are nice for April 1st but not funny at all during the year.



    RC or anyone,

    Any thoughts on why someone would be deranged enough to fabricate something like this, with all these details, what motive would they have? It's not as though they claimed the 997Turbo would have 600HP and cost 250,000 euros/US dollars? Bizarre.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The rear wing is going to be more prominent?

    I am not trying to be negative but honestly wouldn't most of you be embarrassed driving around town with a big prominent wing on the rear deck? My god, your successful people with a great deal of maturity. To drive around with a big wing on a car is sooo ricer and frankly infantile.



    Perhaps some of us care about driving our cars more than the image they provide.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    RC-
    does this mean u still have faith in Porsche giving us good stuff!!!!???? Not JUST stuff to make a profit!

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Just got the info that the whole "press release" seems to be a HOAX but there is no official confirmation for that yet. IF this is a HOAX, the person who planted it may not be aware that he may be held responsible if this hoax has a financial impact on Porsche and/or their reputation.
    Such jokes are nice for April 1st but not funny at all during the year.



    RC or anyone,

    Any thoughts on why someone would be deranged enough to fabricate something like this, with all these details, what motive would they have? It's not as though they claimed the 997Turbo would have 600HP and cost 250,000 euros/US dollars? Bizarre.



    That's also why I am dubious and still think this could be the real thing or maybe a draft that was stolen or whatever.
    Because, I just can't believe someone to be sad enough to go through the effort of writing a hoax like that.
    It's not even funny. Just waisted time really.
    Mind you, human idiocy really has no limit...

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:

    So, RC, you're basically saying that the "S" version could hit a price tag of Euro 160.000? That's as much as a 430 Spider. The TTS Cab might cost as much as a 430 CS... Porsche better make this car in lesser volume or there are going to be a lot of pissed off pharmacists running around, both GErman and Italian...



    The 997TTS will probably have the performance of the 600hp Maranello successor (if not better). So this car cannot be compared to a 430 or 430CS. It will be a different class.

    If the car really gets 530hp +/- Euro 160k would be OK.



    Yes, with 530 HP the performance would justify the 160k price tag. The thing I'm afraid though is that Porsche will overproduce these cars like they did with the 996TT. I'd be very angry if I paid 160k for a car, but two years down the road only sold it for 80k.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Thanks for the info RC. You are a lucky man living so close to all the action. The 993TT is a gr8 car however I am pretty sure the U.S. market 993TT could not do 0-60 in 3.7. Not even the stock 996TT in the U.S. can do 3.7. I have seen 3.9 to 4.2 for the 996TT. My uncle lives not too far away from you and I have visited several times

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Thanks for the info RC. You are a lucky man living so close to all the action. The 993TT is a gr8 car however I am pretty sure the U.S. market 993TT could not do 0-60 in 3.7. Not even the stock 996TT in the U.S. can do 3.7. I have seen 3.9 to 4.2 for the 996TT. My uncle lives not too far away from you and I have visited several times



    My 993TTS specs. above were for the North American market-the TT was rated 0-60 in 4.5, TTS 0-60 in 3.7.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    VKSF,

    I have not heard any Ring times for the 959. Perhaps one of the P history buffs can find one.

    BTW, if the GT3 "press release" is a HOAX, that would be an astute call by RC, Grant and the others who have skeptical views of the report. . . .

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    It's a hoax. That press release is entirely ridiculous, replete with mis-information, and even borrows text directly from the 996 GT3 press release. Bleh.

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    VKSF,

    I have not heard any Ring times for the 959. Perhaps one of the P history buffs can find one.

    BTW, if the GT3 "press release" is a HOAX, that would be an astute call by RC, Grant and the others who have skeptical views of the report. . . .



    Yeah, I'd be really curious to see relative Ring times and prices.....I recall Nov's evo/car mag had interesting comparos of modern cars to greats of yesteryr...like 430 vs F40....amazed me how much guys had to pay 15-20 yrs ago for performance cars that weren't very accessible to 99% of drivers nor useable in daily use/wet conditions....all w/possibly underwhelming Ring times even in the hands of a pro driver.....

    We live in great times for amateur performance car enthusiasts....and one can even sign up for an FXX car if want more racing "authenticity", all w/the convenience of a NetJets-like share program.....

    Re: 997 GT3 numbers!!!

    Quote:
    frayed said:
    It's a hoax. That press release is entirely ridiculous, replete with mis-information, and even borrows text directly from the 996 GT3 press release. Bleh.



    in fact...it seems a 996 Gt3 RS press release modified...

     
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