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    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW, I have never understood ownership of multiple performance cars. Either the one you have does it for you or replace it. Very similar to marriage.



    In the same way, I have never understood the need or desire to get the supposed next best thing. If you are so enthralled by your particular car why the need for the replacement.

    If you do maintenence, performance should always be as good.


    So Nick, blonde or brunette?



    Blonde or Brunette? Whoever gets to me first and keeps me happy.

    Honestly, my comment was not a knock against anyone with multiple cars. My preference is to obtain a car that keeps me satisfied by meeting all my needs. If a new car is introduced that would even better meet my needs, then I replace my old car. Invariably that is the case.

    All high end performance cars are similar. Multiple ownership of these cars in my view is not satisfying.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW, I have never understood ownership of multiple performance cars. Either the one you have does it for you or replace it. Very similar to marriage.



    In the same way, I have never understood the need or desire to get the supposed next best thing. If you are so enthralled by your particular car why the need for the replacement.

    If you do maintenence, performance should always be as good.


    So Nick, blonde or brunette?



    Blonde or Brunette? Whoever gets to me first and keeps me happy.

    Honestly, my comment was not a knock against anyone with multiple cars. My preference is to obtain a car that keeps me satisfied by meeting all my needs. If a new car is introduced that would even better meet my needs, then I replace my old car. Invariably that is the case.

    All high end performance cars are similar. Multiple ownership of these cars in my view is not satisfying.



    oh oh oooh another dig at Mike, com'mon Nick stop playing dirty

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW, I have never understood ownership of multiple performance cars. Either the one you have does it for you or replace it. Very similar to marriage.



    In the same way, I have never understood the need or desire to get the supposed next best thing. If you are so enthralled by your particular car why the need for the replacement.

    If you do maintenence, performance should always be as good.


    So Nick, blonde or brunette?



    Blonde or Brunette? Whoever gets to me first and keeps me happy.

    Honestly, my comment was not a knock against anyone with multiple cars. My preference is to obtain a car that keeps me satisfied by meeting all my needs. If a new car is introduced that would even better meet my needs, then I replace my old car. Invariably that is the case.

    All high end performance cars are similar. Multiple ownership of these cars in my view is not satisfying.



    I totally disagree with the last statement "All high end performance cars are similar"...
    A 430, Gallardo, 911 or something like Noble are all completely different cars to drive. They kinda got to be drivin in different ways to get the best out of them and thats where the fun lies ...
    If I had the means to get more than 1 sportscar i would go for it no doubt ...
    The thing is though, having one sports car is also cool cause you kinda develop a relationship with it..Guess thats why a felt all sentimental when I sold my GT3 ... which was my ONLY car for a couple of months..
    When i think about it though, when I had that car I never thought of getting/wanting another, so I can see where your coming from


    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW, I have never understood ownership of multiple performance cars. Either the one you have does it for you or replace it. Very similar to marriage.



    In the same way, I have never understood the need or desire to get the supposed next best thing. If you are so enthralled by your particular car why the need for the replacement.

    If you do maintenence, performance should always be as good.


    So Nick, blonde or brunette?



    Blonde or Brunette? Whoever gets to me first and keeps me happy.

    Honestly, my comment was not a knock against anyone with multiple cars. My preference is to obtain a car that keeps me satisfied by meeting all my needs. If a new car is introduced that would even better meet my needs, then I replace my old car. Invariably that is the case.

    All high end performance cars are similar. Multiple ownership of these cars in my view is not satisfying.



    I totally disagree with the last statement "All high end performance cars are similar"...
    A 430, Gallardo, 911 or something like Noble are all completely different cars to drive. They kinda got to be drivin in different ways to get the best out of them and thats where the fun lies ...
    If I had the means to get more than 1 sportscar i would go for it no doubt ...
    The thing is though, having one sports car is also cool cause you kinda develop a relationship with it..Guess thats why a felt all sentimental when I sold my GT3 ... which was my ONLY car for a couple of months..
    When i think about it though, when I had that car I never thought of getting/wanting another, so I can see where your coming from





    What Nick is trying to say is all high end performance cars are similar in that they get looks from people. Obviously they have very different driving characteristics. Getting looks from people looking at his car (obviously not him) is more important than performance.

    David


    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Although I disagree with what Nick said, but everyone's entitled to their opinion so I feel sarcasm is not productive..? Can we get back to the topic about the F430's successor please..? Anyone with info..?

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Will not the "Dino" F149 be just a rebodied Maserati GT Coupe with a Ferrari engine cover, chassis and interior tweaks?

    Or is Ferrari spending massive R/D $$$ to create a new
    platform? Or will the F149 be a shorter version of the wildly expensive 599/612 platform?

    Any rumor about a "Dino" design mandate to make a pretty Ferrari instead of another F car with quickly dated looking and bizarrely Anime like cartoon like face?

    Ferrari does have some new patents on active aerodynamic surfaces for use underneath a car. It would be nice to see more than just Sony like transmission paddles as the tech highlight of any new car they build.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Although I disagree with what Nick said, but everyone's entitled to their opinion so I feel sarcasm is not productive..? Can we get back to the topic about the F430's successor please..? Anyone with info..?



    This is from Ferrarichat by srfcity and frequent poster here.

    Well it's official. I attended the 430 Scuderia launch party at the LA Auto Show and asked Maurizio Parlato, FNA President and CEO, directly and he confirmed the 430 extension. BTW, if you ever want to see anyone dance around and run, start asking one of them a touchy question. The marketing guy did the same thing Anyway, there you have it folks.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Maybe the extension will be used to give Ferrari time further develop the rumored yet new monocoque chassis?

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Marwan Arakji said:
    guys, very reputable french magazine "Sport Auto": a front engine V8 is in the works, 2+2, built on the 430 platform, but NOT a 430 replacement, and NOT an entry-level Ferrari... to be priced between the 430 and the 599... engine derived from the 430, but with more cc., and slightly less bhp (450 to 480 bhp)... to be named "California GT"...



    I don't think that we will see something in between the 430 and 599. The price of the midengined-V8-model is going up, making room for a new "entry" level car in the price range of the Porsche Turbo or the former 360 Modena. With the Scuderia and its price tag of more than 200k Euro you can expect the 430-replacement to cost that amount of money as well. So even with the recent price hike of the 599 (CCM included) there still is not enough room for a frontengined V8 in between these two models.

    Also if the California GT will have around 460hp (which is true), why should it cost more than the 490hp-F430?



    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...



    I was going for them anyway

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...



    I was going for them anyway



    Finally they are worth the money. But 25k more are a lot of money, for a car that's basically ten years old and has had already too many price increases...

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...



    I was going for them anyway



    Finally they are worth the money. But 25k more are a lot of money, for a car that's basically ten years old and has had already too many price increases...



    In the end, a high-performance sports car should have CCB today. CCB has no (significant) disadvantages (except for the price...) but delivers superior performance

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Ceramics have few disadvantages IMHO:

    -slower response on brake pedal on wet road or low ambiente temperature

    -more fragile structure of Ceramic discs-prone to damage(my friend broke Ceramic disc on his 997 CS from small rock that was on the road)

    -price


    Regarding superior performance... Around 85% of all 997 Turbos are used as daily commuters in city so, good question is what is advantage of Ceramic Brakes in wet road city commuting? None? I think so...

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Ceramics have few disadvantages IMHO:

    -slower response on brake pedal on wet road or low ambiente temperature

    -more fragile structure of Ceramic discs-prone to damage(my friend broke Ceramic disc on his 997 CS from small rock that was on the road)

    -price


    Regarding superior performance... Around 85% of all 997 Turbos are used as daily commuters in city so, good question is what is advantage of Ceramic Brakes in wet road city commuting? None? I think so...



    Your first point is correct. That is one disadvantage.

    Point 2 is (in essence) the same as point 3: you might have to replace CCB discs more often, further widening the cost gap.

    Certainly, CCB are not needed for inner city driving. But then: a 997TT for inner city driving is nonsense as well. You could argue that adding CCB does not make this nonsense a bigger nonsense

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Ceramics have few disadvantages IMHO:

    -slower response on brake pedal on wet road or low ambiente temperature

    -more fragile structure of Ceramic discs-prone to damage(my friend broke Ceramic disc on his 997 CS from small rock that was on the road)

    -price


    Regarding superior performance... Around 85% of all 997 Turbos are used as daily commuters in city so, good question is what is advantage of Ceramic Brakes in wet road city commuting? None? I think so...



    Good points....

    But doubt that even 35% of 997TT or Scud/599 are used as daily, yr-round commuters in US....majority are prob fair-weather/wkend-only cars....and, in CA, rain is rare outside of Winter mths....

    And similar real-world disadvantages can be argued vs 19"-20" perf wheels/tires (and alignment settings) vs public, imperfect urban roads where most $150K+ perf cars are driven.....

    Have always found the MSRP/options cost fixation silly.....would consider MSRP (or whatever basis cost) of fully loaded cars; likely deprec cost after one yr/15K mis.....and risk-adjust nominal deprec cost vs safety and daily-useability risks/costs.....suspect that risk-adjusted valuation makes much more sense than any fixation on nominal base MSRP/option cost (or mkt premium)...

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...



    I was going for them anyway



    Finally they are worth the money. But 25k more are a lot of money, for a car that's basically ten years old and has had already too many price increases...



    c'ome on Rossi, the car is NOT basically ten years old ! The 430 is a totaly new car to me towards the 360 ! (I had a 360 !) maybe the outside isn't 100%, but all of the "inside" is !

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Patriek said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...



    I was going for them anyway



    Finally they are worth the money. But 25k more are a lot of money, for a car that's basically ten years old and has had already too many price increases...



    c'ome on Rossi, the car is NOT basically ten years old ! The 430 is a totaly new car to me towards the 360 ! (I had a 360 !) maybe the outside isn't 100%, but all of the "inside" is !



    Well, you are right. If you take in account the development, it's even more than ten years.

    I also had a 360 and I can see so much of the Modena in the F430. Sure, the engine is new (one of the best engines currently available IMO), the F1 is quicker and improved and they did some restyling inside and out. But basically it's nothing else than a heavily revised 360, which is not a bad thing but a fact.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Ceramics have few disadvantages IMHO:

    -slower response on brake pedal on wet road or low ambiente temperature

    -more fragile structure of Ceramic discs-prone to damage(my friend broke Ceramic disc on his 997 CS from small rock that was on the road)

    -price


    Regarding superior performance... Around 85% of all 997 Turbos are used as daily commuters in city so, good question is what is advantage of Ceramic Brakes in wet road city commuting? None? I think so...



    Your first point is correct. That is one disadvantage.

    Point 2 is (in essence) the same as point 3: you might have to replace CCB discs more often, further widening the cost gap.

    Certainly, CCB are not needed for inner city driving. But then: a 997TT for inner city driving is nonsense as well. You could argue that adding CCB does not make this nonsense a bigger nonsense



    Absolutely correct. You neither need CCM nor 500hp, but in both cases it's good to have.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Stefan I couldn't agree with you more. I owned two 360's and two 430's and they are essentially the same car except for the engine and modified suspension.. Hell, even Ferrari acknowledges this in their petiition for an exemption.

    To continue to sell this car with dated technology is a page out of the Porsche book.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Patriek said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    I ordered a 430 last week (Feb build date)and there has been a similar price hike to reflect the "standard" CCMs



    When I ordered mine a while ago, I ticked the CCM option. So not much difference here...



    I was going for them anyway



    Finally they are worth the money. But 25k more are a lot of money, for a car that's basically ten years old and has had already too many price increases...



    c'ome on Rossi, the car is NOT basically ten years old ! The 430 is a totaly new car to me towards the 360 ! (I had a 360 !) maybe the outside isn't 100%, but all of the "inside" is !



    Well, you are right. If you take in account the development, it's even more than ten years.

    I also had a 360 and I can see so much of the Modena in the F430. Sure, the engine is new (one of the best engines currently available IMO), the F1 is quicker and improved and they did some restyling inside and out. But basically it's nothing else than a heavily revised 360, which is not a bad thing but a fact.



    What the hell do you expect of the 430 sucessor

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    F142? Completely different bodystyle, chassis, engine, interior and approach to the horsepower/performance issue. Meaning less weight now is a priority than simply more horsepower. Much better horsepower/ton ratio.

    And it will not have the old A-pillars and roofline of the 360 anymore.

    It will be to the 360/F430 what the 360 Modena was to the 348/355..

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    shin said:
    F142? Completely different bodystyle, chassis, engine, interior and approach to the horsepower/performance issue. Meaning less weight now is a priority than simply more horsepower. Much better horsepower/ton ratio.

    And it will not have the old A-pillars and roofline of the 360 anymore.

    It will be to the 360/F430 what the 360 Modena was to the 348/355..




    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    not sure I would count on a different engine, this one still has some headroom no? goes to 4.7 liters in the alfa car right?

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    not sure I would count on a different engine, this one still has some headroom no? goes to 4.7 liters in the alfa car right?



    That will be the F149's engine (either 4.7L or still 4.3L), not for the F142

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    not sure I would count on a different engine, this one still has some headroom no? goes to 4.7 liters in the alfa car right?



    That will be the F149's engine (either 4.7L or still 4.3L), not for the F142



    Don't you think F149 and F142 will share the same engine just with different power output?

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    not sure I would count on a different engine, this one still has some headroom no? goes to 4.7 liters in the alfa car right?



    That will be the F149's engine (either 4.7L or still 4.3L), not for the F142



    Don't you think F149 and F142 will share the same engine just with different power output?



    I really don't. Ferrari is going with a lightweight approach for the F142 and it includes the engine. I believe they will go with a twin-turbocharged smaller capacity engine.

    Either the 4.3L, Maserati's new 4.7L or a 4.0L derived from one of them for the F149...tuned for torque...

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    not sure I would count on a different engine, this one still has some headroom no? goes to 4.7 liters in the alfa car right?



    That will be the F149's engine (either 4.7L or still 4.3L), not for the F142



    Don't you think F149 and F142 will share the same engine just with different power output?



    I really don't. Ferrari is going with a lightweight approach for the F142 and it includes the engine. I believe they will go with a twin-turbocharged smaller capacity engine.

    Either the 4.3L, Maserati's new 4.7L or a 4.0L derived from one of them for the F149...tuned for torque...



    But the V8 is already a rather light engine.

    Anyway, if a turbocharged V8 really becomes true, I wonder if this will be as direct and thrilling as the current NA engine?

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    I really have no input on this topic but any route Ferrari takes it I doubt that they will take out the thrill of being behing the wheel from their equation.

    Re: News on the 430 Replacement

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    not sure I would count on a different engine, this one still has some headroom no? goes to 4.7 liters in the alfa car right?



    That will be the F149's engine (either 4.7L or still 4.3L), not for the F142



    Don't you think F149 and F142 will share the same engine just with different power output?



    I really don't. Ferrari is going with a lightweight approach for the F142 and it includes the engine. I believe they will go with a twin-turbocharged smaller capacity engine.

    Either the 4.3L, Maserati's new 4.7L or a 4.0L derived from one of them for the F149...tuned for torque...



    But the V8 is already a rather light engine.

    Anyway, if a turbocharged V8 really becomes true, I wonder if this will be as direct and thrilling as the current NA engine?



    I have my doubts, though by most accounts, BMW has done it quite well when turboing the 3 series engine no?

     
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