Crown

Board: Porsche Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Enzo II:

    It's ugly as hell

    Urus...Q8...only the logical step for Porsche.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    The other 2 look much better


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Enzo II:

    The other 2 look much better

    Have you seen the Cayenne Coupe without camouflage? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    d997h:

    It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

    The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

    The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    d997h:

    It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

    The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

    The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

     

    Do you know what has put Porsche so much off-schedule? The new requirements/rules were known long time ago.

    Other manufacturers with more models and engines seem to be on the mark. BMW started producing cars with the new engines as from July 1, as far as I know.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    reginos:
    RC:
    d997h:

    It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

    The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

    The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

     

    Do you know what has put Porsche so much off-schedule? The new requirements/rules were known long time ago.

    Other manufacturers with more models and engines seem to be on the mark. BMW started producing cars with the new engines as from July 1, as far as I know.

    Are they available? Smiley

    BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW...not much difference, some models will be available in autumn, others maybe even later.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    reginos:
    RC:
    d997h:

    It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

    The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

    The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

     

    Do you know what has put Porsche so much off-schedule? The new requirements/rules were known long time ago.

    Other manufacturers with more models and engines seem to be on the mark. BMW started producing cars with the new engines as from July 1, as far as I know.

    Are they available? Smiley

    BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW...not much difference, some models will be available in autumn, others maybe even later.

    I was informed that my BMW 2-series with PF will be produced next week. Of course, I haven't seen it yet Smiley


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Some models are available, most aren't.

    Porsche will also offer PF-equipped 991.2 starting autumn but everything else, well...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Every manufacturer has to certify not only each model but also all the combinations of model and wheels and some options. For a brand like Porsche this is s nightmare, and we should expect a limited number of options available once the blackout period comes to an end. It takes way too much time to certify it all.


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Ok, but we are talking about non-PF cars right now obviously being pressed into the dealerships seemingly with no further incentives for the Dealers. I may be wrong here and the dealers just may have played it very safe themselves, again, as an example  with the "T", and sell these cars as more or less as base Carreras (with some goodies / tweaks). At least I have not seen a lot of these "hardcore manual, bucket seats, rear wheel steering" "Ts" like Porsche has shown in their videos... well, wait and see...


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Mikla:

    Every manufacturer has to certify not only each model but also all the combinations of model and wheels and some options. For a brand like Porsche this is s nightmare, and we should expect a limited number of options available once the blackout period comes to an end. It takes way too much time to certify it all.

    Welcome to the ridiculous European bureaucracy Smiley


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    SciFrog:
    Mikla:

    Every manufacturer has to certify not only each model but also all the combinations of model and wheels and some options. For a brand like Porsche this is s nightmare, and we should expect a limited number of options available once the blackout period comes to an end. It takes way too much time to certify it all.

    Welcome to the ridiculous European bureaucracy Smiley

    this new rule is there because of cheating manufacturers who got caught Smiley

    they can just blame themselves after all.

    with the new tests procedure, every case is to be tested...with more 20+ 911 version and 1 million possibilities for options Smileythey will need a creative homologation team.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    For the moment, some models like the Golf R, have seen their power reduced, due to this new regulations

    http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/21458/volkswagen-golf-r-power-reduced-due-to-new-wltp-regs


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    Enzo II:

    The other 2 look much better

    Have you seen the Cayenne Coupe without camouflage? Smiley

     

    No Smiley Well, let's wait then for our final judgement


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    This means, that every NEW car any Porsche dealer currently has on ist sales floor right now needs to be registered before Sept 1st, 2018, right ? (registered either by the dealership itself or sold to a client) 


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    d997h:

    This means, that every NEW car any Porsche dealer currently has on ist sales floor right now needs to be registered before Sept 1st, 2018, right ? (registered either by the dealership itself or sold to a client)

    I hear that also after first september a low number of cars can be registered also if from the old emission class.

    don't know if is true or not...but seems possible...difficult to fire all cars before first september with August as last working month(usually the month of holidays)


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    A lot of good deals will be offered then.


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    According to various media reports, VW Group is having a very hard time to cope with the certifications/changes, making it very likely that this "chaos" will last longer than expected. 

    I feel very sorry for the dealers and especially the sales persons there, who actually make a living selling cars...cars they don't have now (anymore). Sad.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Super Darius:
    d997h:

    This means, that every NEW car any Porsche dealer currently has on ist sales floor right now needs to be registered before Sept 1st, 2018, right ? (registered either by the dealership itself or sold to a client)

    I hear that also after first september a low number of cars can be registered also if from the old emission class.

    don't know if is true or not...but seems possible...difficult to fire all cars before first september with August as last working month(usually the month of holidays)

    Yes, there is an exception for a period of one year, starting 1st September. I don't have all the details but my understanding is that a volume of 10% (probably measured against annualised sales) still can be sold / registered without the PF.


    --

    Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    I notice today the notification on the U.K. Porsche new car configurator staying that it is not possible to currently order a new car has been taken off - I guess Porsche are accepting orders now? Smiley

    I was just “window shopping” not actually looking to order a new Porsche as much as SWMBO would love to exchange our Boxster for a 991! Smiley


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end... Smiley


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    d997h:

    Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end... Smiley

    No I didn’t and yes it is...Smiley Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it Smiley But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    dreamcar:
    d997h:

    Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end... Smiley

    No I didn’t and yes it is...Smiley Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it Smiley But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

    Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    dreamcar:
    d997h:

    Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end... Smiley

    No I didn’t and yes it is...Smiley Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it Smiley But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

    Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... Smiley

    I cannot understand how the rest of the industry have managed to cope. Have all the measurements of the whole VW Group been totally unreliable?


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    dreamcar:
    d997h:

    Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end... Smiley

    No I didn’t and yes it is...Smiley Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it Smiley But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

    Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... Smiley

    There is no doubt that authorities world wide - not just the EU - are going to make it increasingly difficult and expensive for fossil fuelled internal combustion engines to comply with legislation. Here in the U.K. the government has decreed that the sale of all new fossil fuelled cars will stop in 2040 and the tree huggers want them banned by 2030. So in the medium term all new cars will be either electric or hydrogen powered.


    --

     

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    From now Seat has only one/two engines in models like the  Leon in Spain


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    reginos:
    RC:
    dreamcar:
    d997h:

    Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end... Smiley

    No I didn’t and yes it is...Smiley Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it Smiley But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

    Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... Smiley

    I cannot understand how the rest of the industry have managed to cope. Have all the measurements of the whole VW Group been totally unreliable?


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

    This is the aftermath of the emissions scandal, VW and others didn't expect the stricter WLTP certifications.

    Or to be more blunt: Before the emissions scandal, many in the car industry thought that they could continue with their software shenanigans, making it pretty easy to adapt to any new legislation and easily fulfill the necessary certifications.

    Mercedes is not in a much different situation than VW right now (well, maybe a bit better), BMW also has some issues and I bet that non-German manufacturers are highly underestimating the situation right now, the wake-up call comes later when their cars will be actually tested by independent sources. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    I bet that non-German manufacturers are highly underestimating the situation right now, the wake-up call comes later when their cars will be actually tested by independent sources. Smiley

    If we are talking Diesel cars ironically the german cheaters are the cleanest ones in terms of NOX emissions (according to ADAC conducting a real life test with 188 Diesel cars last year).

    I understand with the particle filter for the DFI cars it's less of a technical challenge for low hp/ small displacement engines but more difficult for high powered performance oriented cars (hence the partial suspension of new car sales for Porsche and also for some M-BMWs).

    Problem for all DFI cars (no matter whether low hp or performance cars) is the lack of testing racks (all variants of a model need inidividual testing).

    IMHO regardless of the Diesel scandal (triggered by megalomaniac VW execs trying to grab market share in the US with their Diesel cars which never could met US regulations) the mess was foreseeable as the politically prescribed future target emissions in the EU simply are not achievable unless you go either electric or extremely downsized (think 3 cyl 1 L).

    Let's enjoy our cars als long as we can Smiley I am sure once the electronic autonomous cars are coming unrestricted Autobahn will be a thing of the past and "human drivers" will have to pay a hefty extra insurance premium, because they are so much more prone to accidents compared to the perfect robotic cars around them Smiley What ? You still drive an old dirty DFI Porsche instead of an electric car ? In this case not only the insurance company will milk you but also the government (road taxes).

    adac-durchschnitt-nox-188-fahrzeuge-2276672508251317260.jpg


    --

    Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    A general speed limit for the Autobahn will come sooner than many of us here in Germany may expect.

    The reason is simple: Til now, major car manufacturers like VW Group, BMW and Mercedes were against a general speed limit. No surprise here since they offer pretty fast cars and a speed limit would certainly have an impact on all those Porsche, Lambo, BMW M, AMG, etc. sales. In the near future however, with the "electrification" of cars, it only makes sense for major car manufacturers to ask for a legal speed limit in Germany.

    Why? Well, the faster an EV goes, the more energy it consumes and the faster the battery drains. The high top speeds of the cars nowadays are "deadly" for battery life. One reason why EVs driving faster than 200 kph, drain their batteries extremely fast. So it makes only sense to ask for a speed limit to keep average energy consumption and especially ranges at an acceptable level. Porsche cannot sell a car which drains it's battery after 50 km if the driver drives 300 kph. Smiley Just a stupid example but you get my point.

    If you think I'm wrong, I'm not. I actually know for a fact that this topic has been discussed at VW Group (and very likely at other manufacturers as well).

    In the future, everything will be about acceleration, charging time and total energy consumption. Also how autonomous a car will be able to drive or not. Top speed? Not important anymore, simply because there will be a general speed limit in Germany. Maybe not tomorrow, not in a year or two but it will certainly happen over the next decade. It will affect the whole thinking in the car industry about future products and how they will be shaped technologically.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 10/13/18 7:49 PM
    lukestern
    388839 5041
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 10/14/18 11:37 PM
    watt
    316551 1950
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 10/19/18 11:08 PM
    Paulo_Rangel_Melo
    227581 2623
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 7/21/18 6:45 AM
    bluelines
     
     
     
     
     
    208209 1067
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 10/19/18 11:08 PM
    lexs4
    179356 2645
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 10/19/18 10:00 PM
    DaveGordon
    108983 2233
    AMG Sticky Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 9/25/18 7:06 AM
    RCA
    29889 315
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 9/25/18 6:14 PM
    throt
    13187 121
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 6/18/18 8:51 PM
    Monkey
    12537 31
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    611795 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    512649 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    482021 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/13/18 10:12 AM
    RCA
    273566 2589
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/19/18 2:45 PM
    dreamcar
    256473 2566
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    190424 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 10/19/18 7:56 PM
    Rossi
    183903 1648
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 10/15/18 10:07 AM
    WhoopsyM
    174985 3187
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    141919 757
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 10/7/18 8:43 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    135941 2187
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    126750 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    111025 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    105987 871
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    98849 732
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 10/19/18 10:03 PM
    ISUK
    78850 1053
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 10/13/18 9:50 PM
    RCA
    65493 672
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    56771 423
    Lambo Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring? 11/7/17 12:30 AM
    kingjr9000
    49754 852
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/29/17 12:27 PM
    DJM48
    45619 471
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    42576 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    40819 597
    309 items found, displaying 1 to 30.