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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Interesting article about Tesla gaining lots of sales versus BMW 7, S class and A8. Traditional manufactures can't ignore this move away from the ICE

    http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/19/tesla-model-s-passes-bmw-audi-getting-close-to-mercedes-in-europe/


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Hmm, wrong class. The Model S competes with the A6, E class and 5 series. Let's see who those numbers stacked up.


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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I agree as a size model the Model S is a A6 , E or 5..  But I have also noticed that it is actually old S , 7 series and A8 drivers who buy the Model S + women.  


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     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I am replacing my BMW750 with a Model S 85D so I am an example in point.


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    EnglishManInNY:

    I am replacing my BMW750 with a Model S 85D so I am an example in point.

    Good luck.

    Btw, this is general question for members here that are fascinated with Tesla...

    If you are Petrol heads who value excellent drive dynamics and driver involvement how can any of you value Tesla S 85D?

    It is the car with the worst drive dynamics in this size class. Yes, pretty fast in single straight line attempt. I drove it on 350km long trip and car is really pure POC drive dynamics wise. My BMW M550d x drive Touring is far, far better in drive dynamics, comfort and pretty much everything important to me. 

    And btw, I am not against e-cars. In fact my company will have e-Golf from next week as company city commuter.



    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Well, as Elon said, building cars isn't easy, you can't just ask Foxconn to do it.

    This makes me wonder exactly who they have doing their road tests, though, after comments here about handling:

    Just last month, the magazine awarded one version of the car — the all-wheel-drive Tesla Model S P85D — 103 points, a tally so high it broke the Consumer Reports road-test ratings system. Its driving performance was better than any other vehicle the magazine has evaluated.

    But Fisher said road-test scores are based on the performance, comfort and road manners of the cars Consumer Reports buys and evaluates.

    So, apparently, according to CR, it drives better than a 911? 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I do think there will come a point in our lifetimes where the though of driving a gasoline powered car for commuting, consuming fossil fuel and spewing CO2 in the air, will seem very archaic.  I just hope that the use of gas powered recreational vehicles will be allowed to persist.  Grandfather rule I suppose.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    vantagesc:

    I do think there will come a point in our lifetimes where the though of driving a gasoline powered car for commuting, consuming fossil fuel and spewing CO2 in the air, will seem very archaic.  I just hope that the use of gas powered recreational vehicles will be allowed to persist.  Grandfather rule I suppose.

    Toyota has just gone on record with the prediction that it expects to have ceased production of cars with internal combustion engines by 2050. 


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    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    KresoF1:
    EnglishManInNY:

    I am replacing my BMW750 with a Model S 85D so I am an example in point.

    Good luck.

    Btw, this is general question for members here that are fascinated with Tesla...

    If you are Petrol heads who value excellent drive dynamics and driver involvement how can any of you value Tesla S 85D?

    It is the car with the worst drive dynamics in this size class. Yes, pretty fast in single straight line attempt. I drove it on 350km long trip and car is really pure POC drive dynamics wise. My BMW M550d x drive Touring is far, far better in drive dynamics, comfort and pretty much everything important to me. 

    And btw, I am not against e-cars. In fact my company will have e-Golf from next week as company city commuter.

    Completely agree with your assessment Smiley. Its a shockingly poor car for anyone who values handling and ride let alone build quality. The "hit" from the electric motor on take off is exactly that  - a very short lived rush followed by complete motoring banality.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    fritz:
    vantagesc:

    I do think there will come a point in our lifetimes where the though of driving a gasoline powered car for commuting, consuming fossil fuel and spewing CO2 in the air, will seem very archaic.  I just hope that the use of gas powered recreational vehicles will be allowed to persist.  Grandfather rule I suppose.

    Toyota has just gone on record with the prediction that it expects to have ceased production of cars with internal combustion engines by 2050. 

    Well, if I'm still around to drive by then, or able to, I'll probably need a self-driving car anyway, and won't care much how the engine works, as long as the car remembers where I'm going.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    For me the Tesla is a perfect DD. After a hard day at work I just want to get in the car and now let it drive. As for excitement I love the throttle response and urge of the electric motors. I don't want to have to change gear or wait for turbo lag. I just want to go and go fast. I agree it could not replace a weekend toy. Hence why I am thinking of replacing my TTS with a 991.2 GT3. The Tesla would be replaced by the Mission E. But I think my wife would never want anything other than a Model X. These statements hold true even if oil drops to new lows. 

    Btw I did graduate in Computer Science over 20years ago so I am an old geek at heart Smiley


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

     I have no doubt the future is in electric cars, and i applaud Tesla's success and inventiveness.  But i would never buy one at its 100K price tag.  Its looks are too model car like, and the interior comfort and finish are standard at best.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    That's why you lease it. I never buy any of my DD cars. Especially EVs. They are out of date like iPads or will be in my mind. 


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    apias:

    Well, if I'm still around to drive by then, or able to, I'll probably need a self-driving car anyway, and won't care much how the engine works, as long as the car remembers where I'm going.

    Hahaha, I agree completely. Smiley  

    The cool thing about failing from dementia is that the sufferer doesn't give two craps about what other people think.  Whatever works is coolSmileySmiley


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    EnglishManInNY:

    For me the Tesla is a perfect DD. After a hard day at work I just want to get in the car and now let it drive. As for excitement I love the throttle response and urge of the electric motors. I don't want to have to change gear or wait for turbo lag. I just want to go and go fast. I agree it could not replace a weekend toy. Hence why I am thinking of replacing my TTS with a 991.2 GT3. The Tesla would be replaced by the Mission E. But I think my wife would never want anything other than a Model X. These statements hold true even if oil drops to new lows. 

    Btw I did graduate in Computer Science over 20years ago so I am an old geek at heart Smiley

    I am 100% a petrolhead but I do get the attractiveness of a Tesla S85.

    It is kind of a novelty gadget on 4 wheels and the constant software updates actually improve the experience.

    If I had the money to be able to own many different cars at the same time, I think the Tesla S85 would be one of them. Not because it is a great car but because it combines two things I love a lot: Gadgets and cars. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I can't get over how many Model S I see every day in my daily commute. It's incredible. Nothing special about them at all in Northern Virginia. It seems like every marginally successful person is driving them. Men and women of all nationalities. I have more exclusivity driving my Toyota 4Runner as my DD. What really bugs me about them are the ones that have custom license plates making some sort of green statement about being carbon free or oil free etc etc. Come on folks, no one in this area is charging those cars on 100% renewable fossil free electricity.

    Rant over!

     

    wink


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    SimpleSkin:

    Come on folks, no one in this area is charging those cars on 100% renewable fossil free electricity.

    Rant over!

    This is the real issue. Has anyone found any genuinely independent and reliable data on overall energy use and CO2 emissions on how the Tesla compares to, wait for it, the most fuel efficient diesel, or even petrol cars? I would be very interested to see it - and I mean that with an open mind Smiley


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    crayphile:
    SimpleSkin:

    Come on folks, no one in this area is charging those cars on 100% renewable fossil free electricity.

    Rant over!

    This is the real issue. Has anyone found any genuinely independent and reliable data on overall energy use and CO2 emissions on how the Tesla compares to, wait for it, the most fuel efficient diesel, or even petrol cars? I would be very interested to see it - and I mean that with an open mind Smiley

    Cray - I will agree that EVs are only as good as the energy that powers them and what makes them. But tesla is trying to be as clean as possible. Solar power for their factories and their gigafactory and mining sourcing. They are trying far harder than any company or government out there. Give them credit for that. If you ask me they don't get enough credit. 

    I used to think of a future with no ICE and hated it. Now after experiencing a few EVs I am not worried. For my DD at least.  Can't wait for a true EV Porsche!


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    This is from 2006 by Elon Musk: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Drive a Model S and you'll never go back. It's an amazing machine. I can't wait for the Model 3 and will seriously consider it! 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Atzporsche:

    Drive a Model S and you'll never go back. It's an amazing machine. I can't wait for the Model 3 and will seriously consider it! 

    In current state of Tesla cars development totally disagree.

    If I after four test drives of various Tesla S models (S85 D included) decide to replace my BMW M550d X drive Touring with it I would consider enormous change in my personal character. From perosn who value drive dynamics and overall engagement to person who do not like any drive dynamics at all. Tesla S is drive dynamics wise Citröen CX of modern times. 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    If you've lots of time on your hands - and you want to know Elon's thinking on tesla, this is worth a read:-

    http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html


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    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Model S is a straight line rocket, no doubt about it, and that's one attribute that most drivers like. It does ok in corners but not quite up to par to a certain segment of drivers. 


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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Whoopsy:

    Model S is a straight line rocket, no doubt about it, and that's one attribute that most drivers like. It does ok in corners but not quite up to par to a certain segment of drivers. 

    No, it doesn't ok in corners.

    Car is crap on country roads.

    Auto Zeitung tested S85D against Audi RS7 on Contidrom and RS7 was 10s faster on dry track. 10s on short track... 

    One of my business partners bought S model and praised it as much as possible. Then in his narrowmindidness he decided to drive from Zagreb to Dubrovnik with his Tesla... Trip lasted for me(M550d xDrive Touring) around 4h20mins with one coffe stop. He travelled one full day... Ok, stupid mistake that he made since he belived in Tesla advertised range (he forgot that speeding around 160km/h will empty batteries pretty quickly). Nevertheless, he proudly said that he achieved zero emissions and that my diesel BMW polluted the air. When I asked him how is the electricty for his Tesla produced he said: "clean electricity from local e-station in Zagreb!" My reply was:"you mean electricity most likely produced by local Nuclear Power Plant? And this electricity is more ecological in production then diesel fuel produced for my BMW?" Debate ended in his words:"you ruined it for me from now on. As a ecology driven person I need to cope now with the fact that Nuclear Power Plant is producing electricity for my Tesla."

    Point is not black or white. Just IMHO way too many Tesla owners belive 100% in totally wrong claims or lack reality in certain prespective. Everything is grey, and with much more then 50 shades of it...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The more electric cars there are translates into more fuel left for us petrolheads! kiss


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    2011 Porsche 911 [997.2] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS [970.1] (Basalt Black) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche 911 [991.1] Carrera S (GT Silver)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Agate Grey
     
    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” ― Bob Marley

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    many electric car owners conveniently forget or deliberately ignore the CO2 produced when the electricity is generated

    and they do the same re:all the nasty toxic stuff in the batteries, which will require safe disposal in future


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    read the articles people posted previously re toxic batties and co2. It's not as if the ICE is good for the planet.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    SimpleSkin:

    I can't get over how many Model S I see every day in my daily commute. It's incredible. Nothing special about them at all in Northern Virginia. It seems like every marginally successful person is driving them. Men and women of all nationalities. I have more exclusivity driving my Toyota 4Runner as my DD. What really bugs me about them are the ones that have custom license plates making some sort of green statement about being carbon free or oil free etc etc. Come on folks, no one in this area is charging those cars on 100% renewable fossil free electricity.

    Rant over!

     

    wink

    True. I saw at least two dozens of Tesla S during my three week US vacation back in the summer. I even remember one license plate, ZEROEMS or so. So the drivers are proud of their green image, indeed.

    This whole year, I think I saw two Tesla S in Germany. One had Norwegian license plates. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    many electric car owners conveniently forget or deliberately ignore the CO2 produced when the electricity is generated

    and they do the same re:all the nasty toxic stuff in the batteries, which will require safe disposal in future

    This is actually the biggest problem right now because nobody has a clear vision (or solution) of how do deal with this issue.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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