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    Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    I have owned my C4S PDK for 18 months and it's 2 years' old is coming up. The car is very rapid. The gearshifting is smooth and very fast... but lately I am contemplating the idea of trading it in for a California.

    I have always been a Porsche guy and never owned a Ferrari...  I know I am a cruiser more and even with a C4S I have never really gone all out and crazy... not a track guy either but enjoyed the 4S tremendously in rain and as a daily driver.

    I wonder and worry that when I trade it in for a Ferrari, would it feel less nimble and rapid than a 4S. They are similar and different in many ways... including engine placements and V8 vs horizontally opposed 6... and engine noise... my heart is telling me to do it... but I worry that I will miss my old 4S PDK after 2 months... please advise.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Do it!

    only caveat would be to not have the fcar as your only vehicle and be prepared to lose a lot if you rack up the miles.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    The California was actually supposed to be a Maserati but at Ferrari, they liked the car so much and they added it to the Ferrari portfolio. 

    It is a great car, it looks nice and it drives fast but it is a more comfortable ride compared to any other Ferrari you might have driven so far.

    If you're going for "sporty" and if you think the C4S has just the right amount of "sportiness" or could actually use even more of it, the California may be the wrong car for you.

    Have you ever thought of a 458 Italia or maybe the 430 Spider or Scuderia ? 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Maintenance wise the Cali is at least three times more expensive.

    But any Porsche fan should own a Ferrari once so it can appreciate the 911 even more as the best sporty daily driver car in the world Smiley

     


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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

     Since you are posing the question, you in essence are answering your own question. You want to change out to the California.  The benefits of the California are great exhaust, some exclusivity, comfort and pretty good performance. It is a better car than the Porsche you own.

    Downside is it is much more expensive, relatively high maintenance costs and I suspect fairly high depreciation particularly if you put a lot of mileage on it using it as a daily driver. Ferrari's with a lot of miles are not coveted and resale prices reflect that fact.


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    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    RC:

    The California was actually supposed to be a Maserati but at Ferrari, they liked the car so much and they added it to the Ferrari portfolio. 

    It is a great car, it looks nice and it drives fast but it is a more comfortable ride compared to any other Ferrari you might have driven so far.

    If you're going for "sporty" and if you think the C4S has just the right amount of "sportiness" or could actually use even more of it, the California may be the wrong car for you.

    Have you ever thought of a 458 Italia or maybe the 430 Spider or Scuderia ? 


    RC, thx. The 458 is nice and more hardcore and less of a daily driver than the California which is a little less of a daily driver than a 4s pdk. The 458's price range is a little higher but main concern is that it is sold out till 2014.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    nberry:

     Since you are posing the question, you in essence are answering your own question. You want to change out to the California.  The benefits of the California are great exhaust, some exclusivity, comfort and pretty good performance. It is a better car than the Porsche you own.

    Downside is it is much more expensive, relatively high maintenance costs and I suspect fairly high depreciation particularly if you put a lot of mileage on it using it as a daily driver. Ferrari's with a lot of miles are not coveted and resale prices reflect that fact.


    Agree. Porsche can run around daily with some mileages and yet maintain roughly the same amount of depreciation. The California is a good driver but has a higher insurance costs... maintenance wise should be higher but by how much I am not sure. I must have to give Porsche a thumbs up on maintenance and in all my previous ownership experience, the cars are trouble free and requires very low maintenance costs. I have never owned a Ferrari but not sure about the glitches but for sure it will have a higher maintenance costs but by how much I wouldn't know. Ferrai and Porsche in general hold up well against depreciation and Lamboghini and AUDI suffer more depreciation. For some reason, the gallardo or the pointy design of the Lambo never appeal to me but I do find AUDI's R8's shape appealing but you really can't go wrong with a P car and a Ferrari...  but I guess if I have owned a 911, getting a new gen 911 again would be pretty predictable... although it is well known that the turbo s pdk will already give the 458 a hard time of keeping up. However, just the built and engine of the California also makes up for a very good experience. I do not expect the California to feel as nimble or even as rapid as the 4s... pdk... but it should be a good change and it has the GT factor. Yes, then some will complain that it is a Maserati with a Ferrari batch... but this chioce will cost me a heavy hit on my 18 months old C4S pdk and a lot of top up... the only worry is if I will miss the P car after owning it but thanks Nick for reassuring me that I may not miss the P car.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Go for it. The Cali is quicker in a straight line if that's your cup of tea. The 4S should be a bit more nimble but not by much.


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Test figures (California vs. C4S PDK):

    0-100 kph in 4.2 seconds (4.4 seconds C4S)

    0-200 kph in 14.7 seconds (15.7 seconds C4S)

    Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs (handling test):

    1.13.5 min (1.13.9 min C4S)

    Here's my take on this one: the California is definitely faster than the C4S in any driving situation. 

    Personally, I would get a 997 Carrera S PDK with Powerkit. This car is much more fun to drive than the C4S and it also would be faster than the California (exception: top speed).

    Since you seem to think a lot about the California, go for it. You can't do much wrong.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    RC:

    Test figures (California vs. C4S PDK):

    0-100 kph in 4.2 seconds (4.4 seconds C4S)

    0-200 kph in 14.7 seconds (15.7 seconds C4S)

    Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs (handling test):

    1.13.5 min (1.13.9 min C4S)

    Here's my take on this one: the California is definitely faster than the C4S in any driving situation. 

    Personally, I would get a 997 Carrera S PDK with Powerkit. This car is much more fun to drive than the C4S and it also would be faster than the California (exception: top speed).

    Since you seem to think a lot about the California, go for it. You can't do much wrong.

    tks RC, i need to get over that hump... for a little more speed I have to pay another C2S' price for a prancing horse which is not a small sum.  There also has been some sayings that this is not a real Ferrari to own if you want the real experience so I am not so sure... interior wise, I like  the simple and sturdy Porsche's interior but given my previous observation on 355 n 360, Ferrari's interior seems to be of designer style but lacks durability... if some recalls, the 355's interior actually had some trim issues after some time especially 4/5 years later... the trims start to fall apart and melted into gluey substances... the 430 came a long way to make the interior one step beyond that of 360 and the California seems nice... but no doubt audi and german have no bullony durable interior. Porsches are also made to go on and on with minimum maintenance...  but I guess there's a little price to pay to own a prancing horse. My choices aren't much except for California. Some did caution me that the SL was better made FWIW and the Cali had some loose squeaky noise to the folding metal roof and can only get worst. For a cruiser, it is great for a sports car setup... you may have to worry for an italian built metal folding roof as a first.

    I also think about my options, wait for the new gen 911 C2 or C4 which will no doubt be announced next year at one of the motor show and it is sleeker, faster and more muscular though it will be yet another evolution. In general, I can't imagine the 911 getting any better than the 997 and my observation is that it skips a generation for Porsche to get better... 993 going to 997 (996 everyone knew was a flop)... 991/998... should be the best because it was developed when Porsche was swimming in cash but I'd imagine same PDK, same DFI engine with up tuning more...   I can't go wrong with the next 991 normal or turbo. I also see a new Lambo being announced in 2011 end for 2012 delivery. There are too many good stuff in the pipeline but the best would be the revival of 928 which I suspect will come but only in 2013 - 14 or sooner.

    I will take 1 month to digest all this and see if it fades on me... if it doesn't , the itch may have to be addressed...  I should still have time to squeeze in jan production and march 2011 delivery and meanwhile consign my 911 for sale which should lose around 20%.


     


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    The roof on the cali is made by a German supplier and is only mated to the car on the production line. The gearbox is also German if that helps ease your mind on the quality front. The all important engine is 100% Ferrari though. I've never had any squeaks or rattles with the roof on mine. The build quality is exceptionally good and the quality of the materials used in the interior is up there with any of the car's direct competitors IMHO. Ferrari have really improved in this area of build starting with the 612 and rolling it out into every new model thereafter.

    As for the "it's not a real Ferrari to own if you want the real experience" I'm guessing that's coming from drivers only used to the mid engined V8 models. I've owned a 360, 430 spider and currently run my Cali alongside a 430 Scuderia and can honestly say it's nonsense to say the Cali doesn't deliver the Ferrari experience. It's a superb car with great performance when you want it or a relaxed GT cruiser for those days when you want to actually enjoy the scenery, not see it whizz past in a blur. The handling is very different to a 430 due to engine position and I think this throws some of the people not used to this layout in an F car. The handling is great but the car is set up to roll more to allow greater comfort and this roll can put off some people who are more used to the flat cornering of a 430. I'd say it was good old fashioned fun

    I've had three 997.1 models - C2, C2S and turbo. All were very good cars but to me they lacked any soul or passion, something an F car has in abundance. I don't recall ever wanting to take any of those cars out for a drive just for the fun of it. I guess it depends on what you look for in a car as to which camp suits in that respect.

    On the reliability front I was speaking with the service manager at my dealership on Friday and he told me that warranty work has dropped by 60% on the California and 599 compared to earlier models and that whilst it's great news for owners it's not so good for him

     

     


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

     REgarding reliability I can support Iain;s statement that Ferrari's have improved tremendously. Our local Ferrari dealer service department has suffered a dramatic decline in service work all attributed to better build quality of recent Ferrari models.

    I also agree there is more passion in driving a Ferrari but I have come to believe it has more to do with the exhaust than the driving experience. I miss the Ferrari exhaust while driving the new Turbo.But I DO NOT MISS THE PERFORMANCE because the Turbo I am driving would have SPANKED all my previous Ferrari's. 

    Also, I am amazed has to how many thumbs up from other drivers while driving the Turbo. I have always felt that there were too many Porsche's but the car has a rabid following. For some unfathomable reason women like Porsche's better than Ferrari's. I believe a survey was done supported that fact. I have experienced first hand when I owned Ferrari's. 

    Give me the Ferrari sound in my wife's 997.2TT and there is no way I would pick the 458 over it. It is a $100,000 cheaper, better build quality and has equal if not better performance for public roads.

    Finally, to repeat what I wrote above, today the major problem with Ferrari is putting miles on the car.  Go over 2-3000 miles and you are facing epic depreciation.

     


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    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

     It is a well proven fact that the 458 is a lot quicker than the 997.2 PDK under normal conditions nberry (to the tune of a full second from standstill to 125 mph). Under wintry conditions, AWD is a plus of course.


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Nick,

    I've not driven a 997.2 turbo but having owned the .1 version a 430 knocked spots off it for driving involvement with sharper steering, better gearbox with the F1 system, and felt more of an extension of the driver rather than a car you were driving. The 458 takes this to a new level with the DCT box. the new engine and the adoption of the separate control of the active dampers which makes a huge difference to the drive, believe me The steering on the 458 would run rings round the 997 for feel for example.

    The residuals on Porsches also suffer due to higher mileages in my experience, at least in the UK market, though the thresholds are different. In my mind they're not really comparable as the price gulf between them is huge. You could continue to apply the value logic to the Nissan GTR which is half the value again of the 997.2 turbo, provides similar performance and is even more practical. I doubt you'll be coming along any time soon though to say you've decided that Porsche is overpriced and you've discovered the wonderful merits of the fast Nee-san

     


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

     i agree with everything lain said... you will never regret the c4s if u take a cali


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    2010 Ferrari 458 Italia 

    2009 Fiat 500 Abarth SS Ferrari 


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

     Iain,please understand I am not belittling the 458. I am sure it is a superb sport car. I still am uncertain as to what I want to do. One thing I do know, my next Ferrari will be more of a garage queen. A car to drive with an eye on the odometer.

    The meaning of high mileage between a Ferrari and a Porsche are worlds apart. A high mileage Ferrari would be over 2,500. A high mileage Porsche is over 50,000.

    I agree that the steering is sharper in the Ferrari compared to the Turbo because the Turbo is an AWD. But as far as performance for the average driver (which I consider we all are) the Turbo would run circles around the 458. It provides you more traction and stability in any type of spirited driving. If sharp steering matter to you, get yourself a Lotus or Miata for a couple of hundred thousand less.

    The PDK is as good if not better than the DCT box which I drove in the California. For performance yet again the PDK would run circles around the DCT because in the D plus sport+ setting the system provides maximum rpm's during all maneuvers. If I recall correctly, DCT is still dependent on the driver skill.

    You need to drive the DI 997.2 Turbo and see what everyone else is raving about. You will not get the sounds but you will get the fury.

    Realzeus, I do not know the acceleration number between the 458 and Turbo 997.2. but this much I know. On public roads where sprints are limited, the 997.2TT would beat or hold its own against the 458. Had my wife listened to me our S would have unquestionably beat the 458 and for about $100,000 less.

     


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    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    I was having a gentle dig at your thriftiness Nick

    The 997.2 turbo isn't for me though I'm afraid. I just don't find the blown Porsche an attractive prospect regardless of it's speed. I'd agree that in daily driving the Porsche will potentially be the faster car but in all honesty you can't really scratch the surface of what it can do most of the time and at slower speeds I found it just lacked any sort of involvement. I actually preferred driving our Boxster as it could be hustled along and provide more adjustable fun at much lower speeds. I've got a GT3 order in the pipeline as I thought that model may provide a rawer, more involving driving experience. I've been given a September build slot but haven't spec'ed the car as yet and doubt I'll bother to take it as I can't see me taking it out in preference to the 458 for a fun drive or the Cali on a top down weather day.

    I've driven PDK in the 997.2 C2S, Panamera turbo and  in my better half's 987.2 Boxster S. It's a good box but in no way is it superior to the DCT fitted to the California. I even had my dealer retrofit the paddle shift wheel a few weeks back on her car to make it more fun for me when I drive it. It's a definite improvement but the shifts are still not that involving IMHO. Ferrari have engineered in an additional torque boost on upshifts to their DCT in sport mode and you can really feel this if you don't lift on changes. There is also an almighty bang from the exhaust on fast upshifts which is most satisfying. You can always rely on the Italians to add in a bit of theatre and drama in the sound department

    As yet I've only had a brief drive in a 458 but can safely say that the DCT in that is even better than the Cali especially in Race mode Go and have a play in one. I'll be very interested in your feedback on the car. I'll be gobsmacked if you don't rekindle your passion for Maranello's magic.

    Interesting on the mileage issue differences. Here a Porsche is considered high mileage if you do more than 5k to 10k miles a year in it by dealers.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

     Iain, part of my problem is my wife just does not like Ferrari. I owned my 430 Spider for three years and she rode in it a total of three times. With the Turbo, she says lets go for a ride and I (she) will drive. 

    She feels Ferrari  is too over the top in looks and sound. She believes it is crass to own one. That said, she has never interfered with my car buying decisions (it wouldn't do much good) and would live with what I buy. Just the other day she asked whether I was planning on buying the 458 and said I don't know. I am really conflicted.

    Sadly, I am unable to test drive one because all cars in the US are ordered by buyers. However, I have driven the Scuderia which I assume is very similar to the 458 but much more raw.


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    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Nick I am really looking forward to your opinions once you are able to drive the 458. It should be an interesting comparison since you've always been a Ferrari owner that is currently driving a Porsche.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    ISUK:

    The roof on the cali is made by a German supplier and is only mated to the car on the production line. The gearbox is also German if that helps ease your mind on the quality front. The all important engine is 100% Ferrari though. I've never had any squeaks or rattles with the roof on mine. The build quality is exceptionally good and the quality of the materials used in the interior is up there with any of the car's direct competitors IMHO. Ferrari have really improved in this area of build starting with the 612 and rolling it out into every new model thereafter.

    As for the "it's not a real Ferrari to own if you want the real experience" I'm guessing that's coming from drivers only used to the mid engined V8 models. I've owned a 360, 430 spider and currently run my Cali alongside a 430 Scuderia and can honestly say it's nonsense to say the Cali doesn't deliver the Ferrari experience. It's a superb car with great performance when you want it or a relaxed GT cruiser for those days when you want to actually enjoy the scenery, not see it whizz past in a blur. The handling is very different to a 430 due to engine position and I think this throws some of the people not used to this layout in an F car. The handling is great but the car is set up to roll more to allow greater comfort and this roll can put off some people who are more used to the flat cornering of a 430. I'd say it was good old fashioned fun

    I've had three 997.1 models - C2, C2S and turbo. All were very good cars but to me they lacked any soul or passion, something an F car has in abundance. I don't recall ever wanting to take any of those cars out for a drive just for the fun of it. I guess it depends on what you look for in a car as to which camp suits in that respect.

    On the reliability front I was speaking with the service manager at my dealership on Friday and he told me that warranty work has dropped by 60% on the California and 599 compared to earlier models and that whilst it's great news for owners it's not so good for him

     

     

    ISUK thank you so much... this is really reassuring coming from an owner's POV. Most importantly, you had more experience and had owned the 997 and turbo (which in PDK form and if TURBO S PDK form) is a real rocket...   and coming from those, you can give me those kind opinions. You r right, the 997 or 911 is always a good dd but it lacks soul and passion but it is simply a durable car. I would compare that to a good o ROLEX, good, o, durable and long lasting and evergreen. I would then compare the Ferrari to a more exotic watch which requires more maintenance. The only worry I had was missing the handling and agility and speed of a smaller car like 997.2 PDK. I guess since you have owned different Ferraris, your words are trustworthy but I do not think that the California will be any less fun (speed wise, yet to see but if you want cheap speed, try the GTR)... indeed it is definitely more fun. It has some exclusivity as well with PORSCHE watering down its line with Panamera V6 and V6 Cayenne (Porsche sells more of these two hotcakes than you could ever imagine... everyone just wants to drive a Porsche badged Lexus sedan... or Porsched badged VW or PRADO with more bang for the buck). Porsche 911 stays true, durable, fast and well made but it is more bland to drive for sure. I guess you hv to pay a little more for emotions and passions... just like buying a Patek is beyond most reasons as no watch should cost 60-70K USD upwards. Thx so much...  maybe after owning a California, I will always stay there and not go back although I did ponder upon an R8... which then wasn't the best proposition coming from a 997.2 pdk... R8 is a good car and it has all the right factor for a lot less than the Lambo.
     


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    cookie monster... The Cali is a fun car but it is bigger and heavier than a 997 so isn't quite as agile and due to the front engined configuration the handling is very different. My best advice would be to take a few test drives and try to drive the car over roads you are very familiar with so you can judge if the handling suits your driving style. Most cars have the magnaride system which firms up the dampers in sport mode but left them too soft in comfort mode for my liking so I went with the standard mechanical suspension which is a compromise setting between the comfort and sport modes of Magnardide with more bias towards the sport. I prefer it as I find it more predictable but there has been a software update for the Cali's Magnaride system so it may be better now. The 458 has Magnaride as standard and it's superb in that car.

    If you do go fo a Cali there is some good info over on FerrariChat.com on which options are worthwhile and those that are not. The upgraded hi-fi seems to be a big no no asthose who've bought it say it's very poor value and doesn't deliver much of an improvement for a huge extra cost. The rear seats are all but useless IMHO and the next Cali I order I'm going for the rear bench option.

    I helped a female customer at my dealer to spec her car as she wanted it to look sporty to replace a 430 spider but wasn't sure what to pic. She choose Rosso Corsa for the exterior and left me to come up with options for her interior. Here's the one she chose and she loves it. I think it really transforms the look of the car from GT cruiser to sports car.

    IMG_0437.JPGIMG_0429.JPGIMG_0433.JPGIMG_0431.JPG


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    nberry:

     Iain, part of my problem is my wife just does not like Ferrari. I owned my 430 Spider for three years and she rode in it a total of three times. With the Turbo, she says lets go for a ride and I (she) will drive.


     

    Nick,

    To be fair you did pick your spider in about the most unsubtle and conspicuous colour Ferrari offer so I'm not surprised Smiley Perhaps if you went for someting like Grigio Titanio or Grigio Ferro your wife wouldn't be so reticent to come out in it with you Smiley

    It's a pity the dealers there aren't having demo cars as I'm sure you will realise what a great step forward the 458 is from the already very accomplished 430. The car is amazing and the best description I've read in a review was the one in Top Gear magazine which said the genius of the 458 is to combine "pootling with ferocious" which I'd say is spot on.  The car is equally happy trundling along at 20 mph in traffic as it is rapidly accelerating into 3 figure speeds.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    ISUK:

    I was having a gentle dig at your thriftiness Nick

    The 997.2 turbo isn't for me though I'm afraid. I just don't find the blown Porsche an attractive prospect regardless of it's speed. I'd agree that in daily driving the Porsche will potentially be the faster car but in all honesty you can't really scratch the surface of what it can do most of the time and at slower speeds I found it just lacked any sort of involvement. I actually preferred driving our Boxster as it could be hustled along and provide more adjustable fun at much lower speeds. I've got a GT3 order in the pipeline as I thought that model may provide a rawer, more involving driving experience. I've been given a September build slot but haven't spec'ed the car as yet and doubt I'll bother to take it as I can't see me taking it out in preference to the 458 for a fun drive or the Cali on a top down weather day.

    I've driven PDK in the 997.2 C2S, Panamera turbo and  in my better half's 987.2 Boxster S. It's a good box but in no way is it superior to the DCT fitted to the California. I even had my dealer retrofit the paddle shift wheel a few weeks back on her car to make it more fun for me when I drive it. It's a definite improvement but the shifts are still not that involving IMHO. Ferrari have engineered in an additional torque boost on upshifts to their DCT in sport mode and you can really feel this if you don't lift on changes. There is also an almighty bang from the exhaust on fast upshifts which is most satisfying. You can always rely on the Italians to add in a bit of theatre and drama in the sound department

    As yet I've only had a brief drive in a 458 but can safely say that the DCT in that is even better than the Cali especially in Race mode Go and have a play in one. I'll be very interested in your feedback on the car. I'll be gobsmacked if you don't rekindle your passion for Maranello's magic.

    Interesting on the mileage issue differences. Here a Porsche is considered high mileage if you do more than 5k to 10k miles a year in it by dealers.

    Iain,
     

    You know that I like 458 a lot but, I will disagree with some things that you wrote...

    PDK in 997.2 Turbo and Turbo S is IMHO at least as good as DCT in 458. In fact in MY opinion for 99% of driving it is better. Why?

    That "kick" on upshifts on DCT in 458 is simply programmed thing that I hate. Why do I need to "feel" small jerkiness on upshift? Because you can feel it on old F1 gearbox on Scud for example? It feels more sporty? Hmmm... Not in my book...

    Do not forget one thing DCT from Getrag is oldest DCT currently used in sportscars. Both PDK(ZF) and McLarens DCT(Graziano) are acutally third generations DCTs. Getrag unit is size and weight like second gen DCT.

    I drove 458 and I liked it. Unfortunately, I expected so much more from it. 458 in MY opinion is not as much better then 997.2 Turbo PDK as I expected. In fact I find it marginally better in drive dynamics-that is my subjective feeling.

    For example engine mechanical smoothness(german name Laufkultur) is in best case average on 458(same goes for California).

    Back OT. My advice for original poster-try to test drive California, even if you have to travel. Also, test drive 997.2 Turbo PDK. Drive it in Sport+ programm for a while-you could be supriesed...


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    KresoF1:

     

    That "kick" on upshifts on DCT in 458 is simply programmed thing that I hate. Why do I need to "feel" small jerkiness on upshift? Because you can feel it on old F1 gearbox on Scud for example? It feels more sporty? Hmmm... Not in my book...


    I agree, BMW had the same issue on the transition from SMG to DKG therefore implemented a similiar jerk in the fastest shift speed programme.
     

    KresoF1:

    For example engine mechanical smoothness(german name Laufkultur) is in best case average on 458(same goes for California).


    On a Ferrari, that´s like asking for a silent exhaust... Smiley
     


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    REALZEUS:

     It is a well proven fact that the 458 is a lot quicker than the 997.2 PDK under normal conditions nberry (to the tune of a full second from standstill to 125 mph).


    If 997.2 PDK means Carrera you're right, but if it means 997.2 TT PDK, I would not count on that. Smiley
     


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    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Kreso,

    Ferrari have allowed a torque boost not a delay on upshifts which gives the impression of the box changing gears if you keep the throttle flat during the shift. I didn't notice any real jerkiness in the shifts even when using this feature, certainly not compared to my Scud. Unlike you I actually prefer a bit of the feel of the gears changing otherwise the box feels like an auto IMHO. I found the 458 extremely smooth to drive and you quickly get to speeds without realising how fast you are travelling. Perhaps this dillutes the sense of fun somewhat as you can drive the car smoothly and still be fast. It's a different car though if you drive it aggressively in Race mode.

    The 997 turbo is a great car without a doubt but it's just soulless to me which is the same issue I had with the R8. At least the Audi sounded better but it's still pretty muted. PDK just doesn't feel very involving to me unless it's in Sport Plus mode and then it wakes up a bit.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Iain,

    Do not get me wrong here. 458 is IMHO the best Ferrari ever.

    Just... I expected more.

    458 downsides IMHO:

     

    -throttle too sensitive at low speed

    -DCT not as good as I hoped-too much of old F1 sequential gens are programmed into it(here Ferrari fans will demur since most of them thinks that sequential manuals a la F1 are great thing)

    -engine mechanical smoothness(Laufkultur). To explain further-not so good Laufkultur unfortunately in  most cases means shorter engine lifespan then usual(for a sportscar). In points: 997.2 Turbo engine 9 points, R8 V10 8.5 points, SLS AMG 8 points, 458 Italia 7.5 points...

    -12.5m full circle... 458 is definitely a car for very, very wide parking spots

    -option price politics. Porsche was a former champion here. Ferrari wipe out the floor with it-full option 458 Italia cost(now, look at this figure) 275K € in Germany with Mwst.(remark all CF options added-new ones for exterior also). What is too much is too much...


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    ISUK: The rear seats are all but useless IMHO and the next Cali I order I'm going for the rear bench option.

     

    IMG_0433.JPG

     

    Those 2 black plastic pieces on the rear seats have to be part of a child seat restraint system, Right??  Or are they ball busters this woman had installed.

     


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    Kreso,

    You are worrying me. I think you want a Porsche turbo or an Audi R8 but wearing a 458 body That kind of car would kill Ferrari dead for me .

    The low speed throttle was fine on the car I drove so perhaps there was an issue on the example you drove or perhaps I am just more used to how Ferraris drive and didn't notice any difference  I don't think there will be an issue with engine longevity. There's a guy here in the UK who's used his 360 daily and is approaching 100k miles on it with no major work other than the usual belt changes and a few clutches. That's pretty impressive for such a low production volume engine.

    Putting serious miles on an F car really devalues it unfortunately on the used market as Nick said. This isn't because the cars can't take it but more because the majority are kept as occassional use toys or garage queens.

    As for the pricing I think it was inevitable that the cost was going up substantially as other manufacturers have flooded the premium/exotic sports car market. If Ferrari had kept pricing at 430 levels they'd have lost the brand cachet and would inevitably suffer long term as a result. Blame Audi, Aston Martin, AMG Mercedes etc for this trend as they crashed the party with their R8, Vantage and SLS models. The prices of Ferraris will only continue to spiral upwards as well I fear. The new Mclaren is going to be priced near the 458 in terms of base and options prices I suspect. If they charge less it will be perceived as being less exclusive or less good  by many potential buyers.


    Re: Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

    racerx:

    Those 2 black plastic pieces on the rear seats have to be part of a child seat restraint system, Right??  Or are they ball busters this woman had installed.

     

     

    Smiley

    They are luggage restraint guides Tom. The front of the shelf curves downwards so theses rails are set into the surface to hold bags in place in conjunction with the straps. The 599 has a similar system.


     
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