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    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Nick raises some interesting points of discussion and I don't completely understand the hostility. But on the other hand, it is somewhat of a lose-lose situation for image-conscious Boxster owners. On one hand if they say the car has acceptable acceleration for its class, then they must admit the car is somewhat in the shadow of the 911. On the other, if they wish to elevate the Boxster's status and play with the big boys, then the 5.5s time is rather behind. However, this speed thing isn't everything and the car is appreciated by the same enthuisiasts Nick mentioned earlier.

    There is really nothing wrong with liking the Boxster for its current merits and in fact I think it's a nice car for what it is. Porsche could otherwise further differentiate the Boxster from the 911 by making it a bit more raw and moving it away from the pseudo-GT direction of the 911. This however, will not attract more buyers which was the point of this discussion.

    Assuming Boxster sales are so lackluster as to warrant having this discussion (haven't looked into it myself), examining the marketing strategy is pretty interesting! I doubt making it more sporty will help sales, but perhaps more power would help it from an image perspective.

    I think the Boxster still has some image holding with first time sports car buyers. Someone asked me why I didn't get a Boxster, because Porsche in general was more desirable to them. To the contrary, my older sibling will only consider a 911 when she graduates from med school.

    - J

    PS: If you think I am biased against low powered cars, you'd be wrong, for my sports car has but 190hp!

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Gee! I thought the Boxster was the fastest car in the World! isnt it?
    Wow! You really taught me well there, oh Master of sportscars.
    Of course I'm just a little european lamer, who never ever drove anything faster than a Boxster.

    But if you, oh Owner of the immaculate red ravioli-racer, could teach me I would be most greatful.
    Previously I only drove a measely 640 BHP turbo anti-lag Audi A4 Quattro doing 0-100 in appr. 3 secs, so I am not as wise as you, Oh Master.

    And please accept my apologies for not paying due attention to the 0.2 sec diff between the 987 and 986.

    Seeing how you keep avoiding the question i pose you- I guess you dont have an answer to what constitutes fast versus slow.

    "Slick but obvious deception"?? This makes little sense.
    As far as I recall it was YOUR wife who drove the 987s, correct?
    You really need to stop smoking carpet fibers.

    You remind me of whatsthatguy...Ben,LJ.
    The answer to all questions and the car to measure all other cars against is...his own. What a surprise, eh?

    Why dont you just say it flat out?
    "I like your Boxsters because they pose no threat to me or my ego, and as long as my car is faster on paper and more expensive I sleep well at night. But sorry that I cant really have an objective debate with you, cuz Im blinded by the fact that I believe all other cars suck compared to mine."
    At least you wouldnt have to keep PRETENDING to be debating with us.

    I wont even go into opening the can of worms it would be, if we started looking at the fact that the 0-100 time does not always tell which car is faster in a 1v1 drag.
    I wouldn't wanna wake you from your dream
    ::::

    I reallly think it's about time we get a "let's measure our penises" forum in here, cuz I have the feeling quite a few people in here are only joining the debate to get a chance to measure their own car against others - and in the process exhibit their own insufficiencies.
    FYI there are quite a few dragstrips and tracks around the world to do that.

    Re: You guys are too funny !

    Comrade Nick apparently uses the ferrari F430 as the performance benchmark for what is "high performance"
    and what is not, no matter what the price difference is!

    Its obvious to him that Porsches are just annoying dawdlers
    that obstruct the uberbahns of San Diego with their cravenous, sub proletariat design amd slothness.

    Hail Modena, everybody should own a Ferrari to take to Ralphs for bread and cheese,or to show off to those pretty Latina girls at the Shell station carwash!

    High Performance ????

    There is yet to be a a street Ferrari or Porsche that will
    do a 140mph quartermile, something that Pontiac achieved
    in 1963 with their Super Duty 421cu Catalina.

    Even a standard Boxster with two spark plug wiress pulled is a high performance car compared to what most people drive, so get over wich high performance car is really a high performance car!

    Be happy to be so lucky to have what you have and where you have it.

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Hey Carlos, It wasn't directed toward you. No chip on my shoulders. If someone can express how the feel about particular car, well, I can express how I feel. Period. Insecurities, Please. Lets face it there are a lot of 911 owners who have superiority complexes. I have nothing against the 911, just SOME owners. So your saying women are attracted to the Boxster because it has less HP...I don't know about that one

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Boxster...its fast its sporty (handles great ), and I think therefore everyone will agree it has earned its right to be a Porsche. Is it a true sportscar that should be respected. By all means yes. Having said that its no where close to being as good as a 911. Not only do the speeds matter, but looks (911 looks a million times better then the Boxster) and stuff like heritage (and no saying the Boxster in a recarnation of the 550 Spyder doesn't count). And for that "image" thing everyone has been talking about. Yea ur right you must be a little insecure if all that matters about a sportscar is what kind of people drive them. But in sincerity I see tons of Boxsters lining the streets (not a good thing when everyone else is driving the same car as you) and yea you see too many women driving the Boxster. The Boxster just has gotten that label -- "the ladies Porsche". And when you're out there thinkin how great your sports car is, and then you see how many Boxsters are lining the street, and the drivers don't look like the Michael Schumacher type...you should worry about what you just bought. But in truth I think the Boxster has been a good thing (not only for saving the company we love) but because it should show us die-hard 911 fans that modern 911's are too slow . WOW...i know I'm having a hard time with what I just said too. But the truth is; if the Boxster is as fast as it is, why isn't the 911 miles ahead of it? I mean the 73 Carrera RS went 0-60mph under 5 with a vmax of 150mph. The full-race RSR version did 0-60 in under 4 with a vmax of 170!

    just my 2 cents
    I'm sure they'll be plenty of ppl to disagree
    But just remember: I'm not a sexist pig and I think the Boxster is great and has its place. One last thing -- I'm not insecure.

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    What about if we settle this one saying that we, Boxster owners, drive very slow cars according to nberry, which is known world wide for his valid and coherent arguments , and we move on. In that way, since we have finally agree with him, he might just leave us alone and go off to drive his no doubt incredible Ferrari....

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Quote:
    senra said:
    What about if we settle this one saying that we, Boxster owners, drive very slow cars according to nberry, which is known world wide for his valid and coherent arguments , and we move on. In that way, since we have finally agree with him, he might just leave us alone and go off to drive his no doubt incredible Ferrari....



    I wonder if nberry has ever read the story about the hare and the tortoise?

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Quote:
    Porsche Addict said:
    Boxster...its fast its sporty (handles great ), and I think therefore everyone will agree it has earned its right to be a Porsche. Is it a true sportscar that should be respected. By all means yes. Having said that its no where close to being as good as a 911. Not only do the speeds matter, but looks (911 looks a million times better then the Boxster) and stuff like heritage (and no saying the Boxster in a recarnation of the 550 Spyder doesn't count). And for that "image" thing everyone has been talking about. Yea ur right you must be a little insecure if all that matters about a sportscar is what kind of people drive them. But in sincerity I see tons of Boxsters lining the streets (not a good thing when everyone else is driving the same car as you) and yea you see too many women driving the Boxster. The Boxster just has gotten that label -- "the ladies Porsche". And when you're out there thinkin how great your sports car is, and then you see how many Boxsters are lining the street, and the drivers don't look like the Michael Schumacher type...you should worry about what you just bought. But in truth I think the Boxster has been a good thing (not only for saving the company we love) but because it should show us die-hard 911 fans that modern 911's are too slow . WOW...i know I'm having a hard time with what I just said too. But the truth is; if the Boxster is as fast as it is, why isn't the 911 miles ahead of it? I mean the 73 Carrera RS went 0-60mph under 5 with a vmax of 150mph. The full-race RSR version did 0-60 in under 4 with a vmax of 170!

    just my 2 cents
    I'm sure they'll be plenty of ppl to disagree
    But just remember: I'm not a sexist pig and I think the Boxster is great and has its place. One last thing -- I'm not insecure.



    Thanks for the input. We dont share the taste in car design (or at least I dont agree with you on the 911 vs Boxster issue ) but I think you have some good points there.
    And itg also dawns on me, that the Boxster is pretty affordable in the US, and hence is often used as a second or third (wife's) car in affluent households.
    In Denmark where I live, however, it's a different thing because of our psychotic taxes. We buy one car and pay for THREE! And Im not kidding you.
    The new 987S with options is around 260,000$ or 175,000 Euro .
    So we dont have the same probelm you guys might have in the States with too many of them, and the image of girliecar.
    Not yet at least.

    And yup, I guess Nberry is perhaps seeing the world from a very different perspective than many others in here. That's fine, but it makes for some pretty strange and derailed discussions sometimes

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Having read through this thread I have to say I find the underlying machismo to be hilarious. This is playground stuff - "my car is better than your car". It must be wonderful to have so much money that you can waste time debating the merits of going from 0-60mph 1 second faster than the guy next to you. In the real world how often do you actually use this performance? Do all of you guys take off from standing starts like lunatics burning two huge strips of rubber onto the road? Maybe you should audition for Way too Fast and Much too Furious. They won't need CGI with you guys around to show them how it's done

    Nberry you are very fortunate to have a F430 on order but I doubt if you will max it out very often as you will be scared to pick up rock chips or the like. Also you should maybe consider that although Boxster S owners may be going 1 second slower to 60, they paid a quarter of the price you did to get that speed. That's pretty good bang for the buck in my book. If you want to see real speed (and be humbled in your F430) buy an Aerial Atom from England. 0-60 in 3.4 seconds for around $62,000. Aerial Atom roadtest This is proper, no thrills, speed motoring.

    As for Porsche not raising the bar on speed they most likely take the sensible view that the vast majority of their customers couldn't handle a car that does 0 - 60 in sub 4.5 seconds. Many will not touch the performance the cars CAN do. The bewildering amount of traction control and stability programmes now on average performance cars is bewildering, adds weight, and all just in order to keep less skilled drivers on the road. There is also a thing called aerodynamics which seriously limits how fast an object can be pushed through the air. To go sub 5.0 secs requires either superb aerodynamics, very high engine output or a combination of both. And if you manufacture a range of cars, why would you want to sell your cheapest model with more speed than your "performance" halo model?Even your beloved manufacturer from Maranello isn't that stupid. I don't see the F430 posting better times than the Enzo. And is it really worth more than 3 times the price to shave a second on the 0-60 dash or is it more important for the Enzo to say "look at me, driving this car means I'm far richer than you"?

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    ISUK, I can only say one thing to your entire post: AMEN!
    I wish I had been able to phrase it like that

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Quote:
    Porsche Addict said:Yea ur right you must be a little insecure if all that matters about a sportscar is what kind of people drive them.

    and yea you see too many women driving the Boxster.

    The Boxster just has gotten that label -- "the ladies Porsche".



    What are you talking about here? first you say it is insecure, then you say too many women drive them? so you are insecure?

    and as I said earlier, I have hardly seen any women driving Boxsters.. seen far more driving 911's - but i dont really care who else drives cars. I care about the car - what it does and how it looks.

    Dr. Phil - you do have a strange way of putting your views across, but I have to agree with you on this rubbish 'not a fast car' that nberry is spouting - and he is avoiding your questions like a politician - a very bad one too.

    but aside from how fast the car is, i will repeat again - every person that bought a boxster knew how fast its 0-100 was and noone has been deceived by Porsche on this score..

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Legally Blonde, that my daughter keeps watching, has a lot to answer for.
    And on the "is it a proper Porsche" argument, the original Ferrari 246 Dino was never considered a Ferrari as it had only 6 cylinders. But it was still one of the best Ferraris ever made.

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    "Dr. Phil - you do have a strange way of putting your views across, but I have to agree with you on this rubbish 'not a fast car' that nberry is spouting - and he is avoiding your questions like a politician - a very bad one too."

    Strange? Moi?
    Hehehe...maybe so I think I have to be to keep up with you guys

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    glad to hear it Dr. Phil...glad we finally agree on something

    Re: I am curious to know what the target market is for the 2

    Quote:
    Martin Tyler said:
    Quote:
    Porsche Addict said:Yea ur right you must be a little insecure if all that matters about a sportscar is what kind of people drive them.

    and yea you see too many women driving the Boxster.

    The Boxster just has gotten that label -- "the ladies Porsche".



    What are you talking about here? first you say it is insecure, then you say too many women drive them? so you are insecure?

    and as I said earlier, I have hardly seen any women driving Boxsters.. seen far more driving 911's - but i dont really care who else drives cars. I care about the car - what it does and how it looks.




    What I'm saying is that you don't buy a car for what kind of ppl drive it. (Hence you most be a little insecure if you're afraid that the Boxster is a womens car). HOWEVER in the United States the Boxster has just gotten that label. Sorry if you don't like it (I'm not insecure...in fact I don't give a damn)...just stating the facts the way I see them!

    Theory of relativity applied to cars

    Did you notice that people from the San Diego area seem to have similar views on the 911, Boxster, and Porsche (the company)? It makes sense if you consider that in their part of the country, traveling along at pedestrian speeds in the traffic of the 5, 52, and other freeways, they get to literally stop and smell the roses so to speak and inspect the other cars on the freeways. Consider that the US as a whole has a median family income of $43,507 (US Census) while California is slightly higher at $48,979. The San Diego area is much higher than that - it has to be to afford the real estate in that part of the state. When you have that much money, spending $50K, $100K or more on a car ISN'T that big a deal - either financially OR PSYCHOLOGICALLY. A $100K car is only 10% of the value of a $1 Million home. Compare that to the majority of the country with much lower incomes and much lower real estate prices. So in San Diego and other Californian cities (San Francisco, where I live, included), you see LOTS of BMW's, Mercedes, Porsches, etc. To some people, like Nick, the wealthy, but sometimes clueless and argumentive attorney, these cars are in the same league as Toyotas and Kias are to people in other parts of the world. Hell, in Newport Beach, La Jolla and 'planets' like that, even Ferraris are common. But why should the fact that such cars ARE relatively common in these parts of the world, diminish their intrinsic value, capabilities, etc. The answer? It shouldn't. 5.5 seconds will smoke ANY SUV or pickup truck in the Mid-West USA. Drive a 911 thru Kenya or Shanghai and watch the hoardes of people who will mob your vehicle to get a closer look. Or drive to "Snob Diego" and get looked down on unless you're driving an Enzo or CGT. I prefer to live on planet earth and appreciate my place in it.

    Re: Theory of relativity applied to cars

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    ..A $100K car is only 10% of the value of a $1 Million home. Compare that to the majority of the country with much lower incomes and much lower real estate prices...


    Any nice neighborhood in the state now has homes approaching $1 million. That is more the rule than the exception now. Even though Los Angeles probably has more Porsches then anywhere else in the world (They never die they just get restored. No snow or salt on the roads, no humidity...), I will go days without seeing a 911 and I may go months without seeing a Ferrari. You do see thousands of BMWs and Mercedes, and if you do see a Porsche, must likely it will be a Boxster or Cayenne.

     
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